Are Thais...

[Gaccha]

Are Thais now a minority in their own country?

In 1987 the figures stood at this:

Thais 60% Lao 25% Chinese 8.6% Hmong,Meo,Khmer 2% Muslims/Malays 3% Other 1.4%

(Source: Adaption of Asia Yearbook 1987, FEER, p6-7)

[Also see: Economic and Political Weekly, Vol. 23, No. 18 (Apr. 30, 1988), pp. 909-911+913-915+917 ]

What is the current state of play?

With every new retired plumber from Barnsley heading to Udon Thani, these figures must be on the move...

[jdinasia]

Care to provide a link?

[ajarnmark]

Are Thais now a minority in their own country?

In 1987 the figures stood at this:

Thais 60% Lao 25% Chinese 8.6% Hmong,Meo,Khmer 2% Muslims/Malays 3% Other 1.4%

(Source: Adaption of Asia Yearbook 1987, FEER, p6-7)

[Also see: Economic and Political Weekly, Vol. 23, No. 18 (Apr. 30, 1988), pp. 909-911+913-915+917 ]

What is the current state of play?

With every new retired plumber from Barnsley heading to Udon Thani, these figures must be on the move...

I guess this is based on ethnicity, not nationality.

Dont you think 25% Lao in Thailand means roughly 15 million people?

Dont you think a Malay Muslim can be a Thai national?

[Gravelrash]

Care to provide a link?

The OP hasn't provided enough of a reference, do you want him to post it to you with high lighting?

[jdinasia]

Care to provide a link?

The OP hasn't provided enough of a reference, do you want him to post it to you with high lighting?

No, he provided an adequate citation .... however I would like to look at the source since it used the word "adaption" (sic)

I assumed he had the page in his history and could provide a link easily.

Some ointment might help your rash

[Changkok]

LOL thais a minority? what you on mate? Try going to Birmingham UK.

[tw25rw]

Those ethnicities were all resident in Siam when the name became Thailand so they are all Thais.

[5tash]

I think the figures provided by the OP are based on ethnicity, due to the addition of Hmong and Meo (these are not nations).

If the figures are based on ethnicity, I would also like to point out that the details of these figures are incorrect, Thai and Lao both fall within the the Tai ethnicity.

The Tai ethnicity is somewhere around 3/4's of the population of Thailand.

[Gaccha]

Those ethnicities were all resident in Siam when the name became Thailand so they are all Thais.

Either the 'internal colonisation' process of the Thai government has been a resounding success or you are using an odd definition of Thai to describe an ethnic "thai"... You don't need to go far-- try Chinatown in Bangkok-- to find 'Thais' (by citizenship) who have an awfully superficial sense of Thainess. Just ask them what they think of the various (unnameable on this website) pillars of society. Or, heck, go South and see what the Muslims think of the Thai requirement, repeated daily on TV, of being Buddhist in order to be a real Thai.

But the quote on the above poster does sum up the government position. The reality is there is no such thing as a 'Thai'. The various backgrounds of Thais are even more varied than the mongrel English.

As for links, come on gentleman, you know academic resources are virtually always unlinkable, they are virtually always pay-to-access.

So, anyone know the current numbers?

[jdinasia]

Hmmm I think you have been to a different country than I have ..., Gaccha

So basically you can't provide anything for us to work from ... The 1st post doesn't let us know if you are referring to ethnicity or nationality etc etc ... and the terminology used is far from 'academic' muslim/malay ???

[Johpa]

From an ethnic standpoint, accepting that ethnicity is malleable, Thai citizens seem to be assimilating towards some sort of mixed Sino-Thai ethnicity, which is to be expected when the elite has long been Thai-Chinese and if one accepts that people tend to identify and realign their ethnicity towards an elite. In addition, the males of the elite often marry women from the re-aligning ethnic groups thus facilitating the ethnic change. The group losing out here are women as women in traditional East Asian cultures have a lower status than do women in traditional Southeast Asian cultures.

From a slightly more genetic, and or linguistic viewpoint, one can not separate the Lao from the Thai. If that were the case then one would need to separate out all the various Tai groups such as the Khon Muang up north as well as the Southern Thai. But if you lump all the various multi-generational families who speak a Tai language, then that group does represent a clear majority.

[tw25rw]

Those ethnicities were all resident in Siam when the name became Thailand so they are all Thais.

But the quote on the above poster does sum up the government position. The reality is there is no such thing as a 'Thai'. The various backgrounds of Thais are even more varied than the mongrel English.

If I'm not mistaken, the use of the word Thai ไทย as a nationality is only about 70 years old?

[thithi]

Those ethnicities were all resident in Siam when the name became Thailand so they are all Thais.

RIGHT!

[Kan Win]

Are Thais now a minority in their own country?

With every new retired plumber from Barnsley heading to Udon Thani, these figures must be on the move...

Oi, why Barnsley

[Jingthing]

Those ethnicities were all resident in Siam when the name became Thailand so they are all Thais.

RIGHT!

I say wrong. We are talking about Tai ethnicity. If there is such a thing as Tai ethnicity then it is legitimate to recognize that not all Thais are of Tai ethnicity. I suppose it depends on the country and how recent the immigration was. For the USA, the only real Americans ethnically are native American Indians, for example, a tiny minority.

[tw25rw]

Those ethnicities were all resident in Siam when the name became Thailand so they are all Thais.

RIGHT!

I say wrong. We are talking about Tai ethnicity. If there is such a thing as Tai ethnicity then it is legitimate to recognize that not all Thais are of Tai ethnicity. I suppose it depends on the country and how recent the immigration was. For the USA, the only real Americans ethnically are native American Indians, for example, a tiny minority.

The original post says Thai ethnicity, not Tai. The word is different in spelling and meaning. If it was Tai, it would be more reliable.

[5tash]

Those ethnicities were all resident in Siam when the name became Thailand so they are all Thais.

RIGHT!

Well, I wouldn't say they all were resident in Siam. The Hmong ethnic group wasn't recognised in Thailand until the mid 1970's when many Hmong spilled over into Thailand to escape the communist groups in Laos.

[Jingthing]

The original post says Thai ethnicity, not Tai. The word is different in spelling and meaning. If it was Tai, it would be more reliable.

This is silly. By using the word ETHNICITY the contextual implied meaning was Tai ethnicity rather than Thai nationality. There are many people of Tai ethnicity living in LOS ANGELES!

Edited November 19, 2008 by Jingthing

[tw25rw]

Read the original post. It says: Thais 60%.

This implies Thai ethnicity, which I believe doesn't exist. The Tai ethnicity does (at least in ancient times). Tai and Thai are completely different things

Thailand has only been called that since 1939 (except during the Japanese presence). The word Thai refers to the nationality.

[Jingthing]

Now that is a good question. Does Tai ethnicity exist? I think probably it does.

OK, now it gets more complicated. Wiki is saying that THAI people are a subgroup of Tai people. I think I need a Chang about now. Not sure I really care either ...

Its just wiki but there you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_peoples

Edited November 19, 2008 by Jingthing

[sassienie]

Care to provide a link?

The OP hasn't provided enough of a reference, do you want him to post it to you with high lighting?

YEA, so watch it right! or I`ll set the boys on ya.

[Gaccha]

Read the original post. It says: Thais 60%.

This implies Thai ethnicity, which I believe doesn't exist. The Tai ethnicity does (at least in ancient times). Tai and Thai are completely different things

Thailand has only been called that since 1939 (except during the Japanese presence). The word Thai refers to the nationality.

I think you're determined to eat your own hand off with this point you are making. I directly quoted the sources that I referenced. They used the word "Thai" and they must as a moral certainty have meant ethnicity. So I think we can draw a close to this digression.

Anyone know the present state of play. In New Barnsley (nee Udon Thani) you would struggle to find any ethnic Thais... but what with the towns and cities on the border with Burma that don't officially exist and we are not allowed to enter you have to wonder what percentage of Thailand is actually Thai.

[jdinasia]

No .. and I have no idea what they meant ... and I believe that Thais and Laotians are for the most part (excluding hill tribes) ethnically identical and that nationality/nationalism is the only significant difference.

What cities in Thailand are we 'not allowed' to enter?

Without access to the article you are attempting to read things into ... we are all left guessing as to what was meant.

(now for the question that comes to my mind .... did you visit Udon once and were the only white face and then again and you weren't?)

[Gaccha]

What cities in Thailand are we 'not allowed' to enter?

Without access to the article you are attempting to read things into ... we are all left guessing as to what was meant.

I mean the refugee 'camps' that are, in fact, fully functioning towns and cities. They have roads, hospitals, schools, pleasant views of the countryside. But you can't enter. And they are not on your google map.

[jdinasia]

Hmmm I have been to two camps in Tak province, do you mean those?

But again without seeing the articles you are quoting (which certainly do not read as if they are peer reviewed academic papers) we are all just guessing at the meanings. I really am not clear since ethnically I believe Thais and Laotians are the same group.

The CIA world factbook lists ethnicity of Thai citizens differently ....

Ethnic groups:

Thai 75%, Chinese 14%, other 11%

I assume that the other 11% is mostly Khmer and Burmese and Malay, with a smattering of Indian etc ... Nationality doesn't come into play in this report and the numbers can be looked at by all of us.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/th.../th.html#People

[Mosha]

The army have this year increased the number of troops in Ranong province. The Burmese population of the legals is said to be 2x that of Thais. The actual figure is certainly higher. There are a lot on Burmese not registered around here.

[anotheruser]

Wasn't half of thailand, Laos awhile back anyway?

[phibunmike]

Wasn't half of thailand, Laos awhile back anyway?

Yes, as far south as Ubon was once a part of the Kingdom of Vientiane.

Here is a question concerning racial groups, ethnicity, etc.:

We recognise that Isaan Laos and Thai are part of the same racial group (don't we?).

Yet Isaan people have their own language (never mind the precise term at the moment, language or dialect), food, and we can often identify Isaan people (as distinct from Central Thai) visually: broader face, high cheek bones, low nose bridge, etc. Do these differences constitute a racial subgroup, or simply regional variation? We could ask the same about French/English - both Caucasian, but French can often be distinguished by nose shape, for example.

The OP's post makes sense to me on a gut basis; Isaan are not the same as Central Thai, who are not the same as Jawi speaking Muslims in the south, etc. But whether these are ethnic, racial or inguistic groups, or whatever, is not clear to me, a non-anthropologist.

Cheers,

Mike

[phibunmike]

Dont you think a Malay Muslim can be a Thai national?

A Malay Muslim can, but a Malaysian Muslim can not.

[5tash]

Demographics of Thailand

More than 85% of Thailand's population speak a Tai language and share a common culture. This core population includes the;

central Thai (33.7% of the population, including Bangkok's population),

Northeastern Thai or Lao (34.2%),

northern Thai (18.8%) southern Thai (13.3%).

Up to 14% of Thailand's population are of Chinese descent,

Malay and Yawi-speaking Muslims of the south comprise another significant minority group (2.3%).

Other groups include the Khmer; the Mon, who are substantially assimilated with the Thai; and the Vietnamese. Smaller mountain-dwelling tribes, such as the Hmong and Mein, as well as the Karen, number about 788,024.

Link to reference