Why Do Some Ex Pats Defend Thailand At All Costs

[bangkokrick]

Hi All,

I have noticed that on many of the threads that a number Ex Pats defend Thailand as if it's their own country. Whatever the case may be, murder, drug use, buying property or the drop in tourism. Its never the fault of the thais or Thailand. There are many faults in this country as indeed there are in most countries of the world, but at some point someone must accept some of the responsibility. Reading the daily news and watching the national TV news stations it's very apparent that Thailand is politically unstable even to the point of calling a state of emergency in the past months. It's also very apparent that crime is rising in the country, maybe because of the political instability. This will affect tourism in the short and long term because people don't want to holiday in countries that have these problems.

The news is being aired all over the world so people are aware of the problems and i think that this reflects on peoples decisions to travel here. I have had calls from my friends and family In The UK asking if i was OK because of the situations are being shown on the news. The problems that i have mentioned are real, they exist, so why do a number of Ex Pats believe that they do not.

The usual answers are: 'You do not speak the language so you don't understand the culture'. 'You don't live in Thailand so what do you know'.

I think that the first lines of the national anthem pretty much sum up the thoughts of the majority of the Thais and certainly the ones that have been tied up in the farang rich areas of Phuket and Pattaya.

Thailand embraces in its bosom all people of Thai blood.

Every inch of Thailand belongs to the Thais.

It has long maintained its sovereignty,

Because the Thais have always been united.

The Thai people are peace-loving,

But they are no cowards at war.

They shall allow no one to rob them of their independence,

Nor shall they suffer tyranny.

All Thais are ready to give up every drop of blood

For the nation's safety, freedom and progress.

Farangs will never be accepted by the Thais as a Thai no matter how long they live or have lived here.

This is not a troll or a flame but i would be interested to know your thoughts on this.

Cheers, Rick

[bingobongo]

it has to do with delusions and denial, some (not all) farangs go to LOS running away from something form the west/past and when the reality of LOS presented before them is unacceptable, thus their vehement defense at all costs irrespective of rational thought occurs

so i think items #1, #2,#5, and #8 could apply to the OPs question

Indicators of a delusion

(Munro, 1999)

1. The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
   
2. That idea appears to exert an undue influence on his or her life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
   
3. Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
   
4. The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
   
5. There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
   
6. An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
   
7. The belief is, at the least, unlikely.
   
8. The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of his psyche.
   

Edited November 19, 2008 by bingobongo

[torrenova]

Some expats have lost the plot completely. They defend all the bad things that they see and have convinced themselves with their weak arguments that it can somehow be justified.

A classic example is sinsot. Guys who have been fleeced or are willing to be turned over somehow try to defend their actions citing that it is Thai culture. Irrespective of their lack of historical knowledge, any union between a Thai and a non Thai is a 50% Thai and yet they conveniently forget all the western traditions that go with marriage.

That is just one example but for the most part, guys are so grateful for getting some sex from someone that they lose the plot and become more Thai than Thais ! That is at the basis of the vast vast majority of relationships which engender this Orwellian mantra that Thailand good, western bad.

I see it all the time. Western folk ignoring the obvious because of some made up excuse. The trouble is that they have actually convinced themselves in their illusionary world.

I've lived in a number of countries including some in Asia and guys elsewhere don't act like this. Why ? because the main reason for being in most countries is not to get laid. In Thailand it is, however which way it is neatly packaged and wrapped up.

I love Thailand but I know where I fit into their strata and I don't kid myself that very few Thais actually want foreigners here. As one poster from somewhere long ago said, they would be much happier if we just left our money at the airport and buggered off back to wherever we came from. Very true indeed.

[Misplaced]

Easy enough. They are just tired of all the whining and complaining about nothing. Everything is Thai women's fault, Thai parent's fault, Thai men are thugs ...etc. None of these issues could/would happen in the western world Yeah, it's such a terrible place that expats continued to come to retired by the boat load.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Misplaced

[tw25rw]

There are some that criticise the place at every opportunity, including those that haven't spent much time there.. The TiT thing can get a bit tiresome too.

[sassienie]

Of course we defend Thailand, we live here dont we. What should I done if I dont agree with something, start my own war?

I am fully aware that I am a guest in this country and not or could not ever be considered as Thai. That should be understood before anyone considers living here.

This whole thread is a nonsense.

Edited November 19, 2008 by sassienie

[homeless007]

Easy enough. They are just tired of all the whining and complaining about nothing. Everything is Thai women's fault, Thai parent's fault, Thai men are thugs ...etc. None of these issues could/would happen in the western world Yeah, it's such a terrible place that expats continued to come to retired by the boat load.

A huge percentage come to Thailand, because it is easy to get in and stay permanently, just check the visa rules & requirements of "developed" countries.Bet you 95% of the retired crowd here would never ever qualify for a retirement visa in i.e. Australia. They come here, because it is still possible to live on a fraction of the cost of any "regular" country. Hardly any taxes and fees, no government behind you charging and watching every step. They come here to enjoy the climate and and food and last, but not least, they come here to "buy love", sorry, meant to say to find love....then many of them start loosing all connection with reality and consider living in paradise and defend quite vehemently what they what never ever accept in their home countries...

This type of discussion will never end....i am pleased with myself, that I am not blinded yet, also it would be much easier and enjoyable to live on that pink cloud that is inhabited by so many foreigners here. I am also more and more understanding when it comes to Thais disliking foreigners. Just look around the streets of Pattaya and you will see real quality holidaymakers and retirees...These poor Thais in fact believe, that the crowd here represents the average European citizen....

[GuestHouse]

It seems it only takes three responses to abandon the question and start blaming people who take a different view.

This I think is in part the answer to the question the OP asked (as opposed to the question some thought the OP asked) some people are just incapable of accepting that other people might have different opinions and want to express those opinions.

Like Bingobongo I also think the answer to the OP's question includes an element of psychology, though I think the accusation of delusion is unjust. Rather people move to Thailand and make a life (and emotional) commitment to Thailand. With such a commitment the accusation that all is not as it should be in Thailand may be seen as an affront to their personal choice. Life is not as it should be anywhere - Any expat living in Thailand knows that there are times when life in Thailand is difficult/disappointing/frustrating and fraught with other difficulties. For some this is a reason to complain, for others these are things to be denied, lest the reality of their choices needs to be addressed.

I think also there are many who believe at some level that defending Thailand against any and all negative comments somehow makes them more 'Thai' or more deserving of their life in Thailand.

The most aggressively defensive of Thailand person I know is a guy who's made a real mess of his life in Thailand. Thrown away a fortune in serial relationships in which he has funded houses and every other conceivable call on his funds. He now lives in near poverty and admits he can't go home. Yet he rants at anyone who says any little negative thing about Thailand. Is he an optimist with an endless capacity to forgive, or is he lying to himself about his own predicament, becoming defensive when he's reminded of the truth?

In the end I think its clear, Thailand is not a perfect heaven, or a perfect hel_l - Those who feel the need to defend Thailand hearing no negativity and those who feel the need to condemn Thailand hearing nothing of the good are both clearly neglecting reality and giving voice to some problems they themselves have.

[Jingthing]

I strive for a balance, defend Thailand when it is defensible, don't defend it when it isn't. I am always aware I will never be Thai or seen as Thai by Thais and I actually like that aspect of living here. Fitting in is overrated. I am curious to read the theories about the extreme defenders, a very interesting topic, but I don't have a clue!

[benjamat]

I cant say that I have noticed people defending "everything" that happens in thailand.

I do see people responding to the many posters who take every opportunity to decry thailands women, culture, government and services. Thailand is a sovereign state, expats are guests here and would do well to remember that.

Genuine critiscism is often posted and that is fine but there are also a hard core of posters who display bigoted and downright racist attitudes and from what I see it is this group that generate the most defensive posts.

If its all so great in the homeland then why are you here?

[torrenova]

If its all so great in the homeland then why are you here?

I don't think anyone came out with this statement but in my case I've not lived in the UK for years and they have destroyed the country I once knew. That sad fact has absolutely no bearing on my decision to live in Thailand merely backing a decision not to live in the UK.

Even if your home country has gone to the dogs it does not explain why some people defend Thailand to questionable levels.

[Underdog]

Hi All,

I have noticed that on many of the threads that a number Ex Pats defend Thailand as if it's their own country. Whatever the case may be, murder, drug use, buying property or the drop in tourism. Its never the fault of the thais or Thailand. There are many faults in this country as indeed there are in most countries of the world, but at some point someone must accept some of the responsibility. Reading the daily news and watching the national TV news stations it's very apparent that Thailand is politically unstable even to the point of calling a state of emergency in the past months. It's also very apparent that crime is rising in the country, maybe because of the political instability. This will affect tourism in the short and long term because people don't want to holiday in countries that have these problems.

The news is being aired all over the world so people are aware of the problems and i think that this reflects on peoples decisions to travel here. I have had calls from my friends and family In The UK asking if i was OK because of the situations are being shown on the news. The problems that i have mentioned are real, they exist, so why do a number of Ex Pats believe that they do not.

The usual answers are: 'You do not speak the language so you don't understand the culture'. 'You don't live in Thailand so what do you know'.

I think that the first lines of the national anthem pretty much sum up the thoughts of the majority of the Thais and certainly the ones that have been tied up in the farang rich areas of Phuket and Pattaya.

WE really should go through this line by line!

Thailand embraces in its bosom all people of Thai blood. (Thai blood...what is that? a mixture of Chinese/Indian/Malay???

Every inch of Thailand belongs to the Thais. (Apart from the bits near Cambodia and a few temples, bits of Burma....lets get a map out shall we?)

It has long maintained its sovereignty, (apart from the 1932 overthrow..however, let's not go there)

Because the Thais have always been united. (As they are with the Southern provinces, the Northern Thai / Burmese...)

The Thai people are peace-loving, (Until you get involved with a demonstration..Thammarsat 1972, Bangkok 2008)

But they are no cowards at war. (Especially if you run up against the Japs...4 hours at best before surrender and they need to outnumber their opponents at least five to one)

They shall allow no one to rob them of their independence, (Not even the Americans?)

Nor shall they suffer tyranny. (It would appear they are suffering it on a daily basis)

All Thais are ready to give up every drop of blood (Yes, of their family or kids IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT)

For the nation's safety, freedom and progress. (Progress means to go forward..delete!)

Farangs will never be accepted by the Thais as a Thai no matter how long they live or have lived here.

This is not a troll or a flame but i would be interested to know your thoughts on this.

Cheers, Rick

Mate, you will no doubt hit a raw nerve with this post! I reckon many may defend this bananna republic because they have nothing left to defend! and, the national anthem sums the place up a lot, disseminate it and you will find there is nothing to defend, nothing to be proud of...to be honest...NOTHING!(I'd like to know where the purity of the Thai blood came from!) And their fearlessness in the face of war..they surrendered to the Japanese after less than 4 hours...

Edited November 19, 2008 by Underdog

[ourmaninbangers]

Hi All,

I have noticed that on many of the threads that a number Ex Pats defend Thailand as if it's their own country. Whatever the case may be, murder, drug use, buying property or the drop in tourism. Its never the fault of the thais or Thailand. There are many faults in this country as indeed there are in most countries of the world, but at some point someone must accept some of the responsibility. Reading the daily news and watching the national TV news stations it's very apparent that Thailand is politically unstable even to the point of calling a state of emergency in the past months. It's also very apparent that crime is rising in the country, maybe because of the political instability. This will affect tourism in the short and long term because people don't want to holiday in countries that have these problems.

The news is being aired all over the world so people are aware of the problems and i think that this reflects on peoples decisions to travel here. I have had calls from my friends and family In The UK asking if i was OK because of the situations are being shown on the news. The problems that i have mentioned are real, they exist, so why do a number of Ex Pats believe that they do not.

The usual answers are: 'You do not speak the language so you don't understand the culture'. 'You don't live in Thailand so what do you know'.

I think that the first lines of the national anthem pretty much sum up the thoughts of the majority of the Thais and certainly the ones that have been tied up in the farang rich areas of Phuket and Pattaya.

WE really should go through this line by line!

Thailand embraces in its bosom all people of Thai blood. (Thai blood...what is that? a mixture of Chinese/Indian/Malay???

Every inch of Thailand belongs to the Thais. (Apart from the bits near Cambodia and a few temples, bits of Burma....lets get a map out shall we?)

It has long maintained its sovereignty, (apart from the 1932 overthrow..however, let's not go there)

Because the Thais have always been united. (As they are with the Southern provinces, the Northern Thai / Burmese...)

The Thai people are peace-loving, (Until you get involved with a demonstration..Thammarsat 1972, Bangkok 2008)

But they are no cowards at war. (Especially if you run up against the Japs...4 hours at best before surrender and they need to outnumber their opponents at least five to one)

They shall allow no one to rob them of their independence, (Not even the Americans?)

Nor shall they suffer tyranny. (It would appear they are suffering it on a daily basis)

All Thais are ready to give up every drop of blood (Yes, of their family or kids IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT)

For the nation's safety, freedom and progress. (Progress means to go forward..delete!)

Farangs will never be accepted by the Thais as a Thai no matter how long they live or have lived here.

This is not a troll or a flame but i would be interested to know your thoughts on this.

Cheers, Rick

Mate, you will no doubt hit a raw nerve with this post! I reckon many may defend this bananna republic because they have nothing left to defend! and, the national anthem sums the place up a lot, disseminate it and you will find there is nothing to defend, nothing to be proud of...to be honest...NOTHING!(I'd like to know where the purity of the Thai blood came from!) And their fearlessness in the face of war..they surrendered to the Japanese after less than 4 hours...

this is a sad but true fact.

And people delude themselves.How many generals who have not even fired one single shot- the handbag army, its pathetic joke,

I could go on and on. Its pointless .people cling to a false pride when they know their own culture is lacking

But there are many things very,very beautiful about this place( the smiles alone warm my heart, the beauty of land,the inherant kindness of so many, etc, etc, but none of those are the ones clung to

it is the lies, and deciet, the internal racism I hate

thailand was never a colony... sorry- it was, far more so than many others and still is and always will be until it stops becoming the worlds most favote over 50 I want to find( meaning buy) love retiremnt zone

thailad is democratic- oh, then why are its own people not allowed to question its own people

thailand is not a 3rd world country- go and take a peek at nana, look at its appaling human rights issues, it heathcare... and ask if this is true...

I could fill 10 pages with this

, and until it allows its own people to question EVERYTHING, until it own up to its own failings, no welfare, a ruling elite who does not give a dam about the way its own people are treated and keep them happy with all this false pride it will never progress

thailand had and has to obey the west, this is not good, but a fact

one small example

The UK, with the US permission and go ahead sent thailand, then siam a little message of what happens when it does'nt sit when told- the allies bombed bangkok after WW2

apparently a certain house was the main target, but the smart brits ( who,unlike the yanks have won every communist war they ever fought using a far more enlightened hearts and mind policy,and also objected to bombing hiroshima) said that would be a little too much and opted for some other buildings.

The thai's got the message and have been a good boy ever since. I wish the west would take some more action so not only a good western servant, but also improve its own house

it may look good on the outside

inside its a big mess, thanks to the lies perpetuated by its own people who only wish to keep their postion,and all those false claims of "pride' keep it from becoming the truly lovely place it could be

what did the buddha ( who interestingly enough was not a buddhist) say about truth?

does it in any way apply here? and yet... what do most of the people here follow ? What happens when a country/people do not practrice what is preached?

[CroBiker]

Those who relentlessly defend Thailand shortcomings are usualy folks on the run from the law in their own countries with no place left to hide.

I guess they are just grateful for being allowed to live here.

If I complain about something it's because I care about this country and hope for some things to be rectified by authorities.

[ourmaninbangers]

Of course we defend Thailand, we live here dont we. What should I done if I dont agree with something, start my own war?

I am fully aware that I am a guest in this country and not or could not ever be considered as Thai. That should be understood before anyone considers living here.

This whole thread is a nonsense.

so, let me get this right

in your logic because you live in a place you must defend it

if you lived in germany in WW2 would you have defended it?

so, once, you enter a place and decide to live in it you must defend it regardless and you cannot possibly do anythng else other than start a war when you do not agree

what exactly does being aware of being a guest and can not be considerd being thai have to do with it? what should be understood exactly?

does that mean you really have to defend everything, all the time? can you never disagree?

and you call this thread nonsense....!!!???

I think you have a very good chance at becoming a full citezen

[Huey]

Who comes here (except maybe some cambodians or burmese) and wants to be considered Thai? I just want to be considered as a man no better or worse than the next man and to be judged on my word and deed and how well they match. I consider my self blessed to be American and while I respect and adore Thailand I don't want to BE Thai.

I think allot of us here feel that way, yeah?

[Jingthing]

I think allot of us here feel that way, yeah?

Yeah. I think its reasonable to say that the majority of westerners in Thailand do not wish for Thai citizenship or Thai identity. However, I think alot of long term people would enjoy increased status with permanent residence. This is alot different than westerners who move to a place like Australia, where you could practically change your national identity.

[siam4ever]

I don't think we defend Thailand as much as we love to further irritate the wanke_rs that endlessly complain about everything they can't handle being out of their own country. Making fun of these people is a rather fun sport here in the Kingdom! Like Monty Python used to make fun of the blue-haired British ladies complaining about the coast of Spain. Very funny!

[kingwillly]

Farangs will never be accepted by the Thais as a Thai no matter how long they live or have lived here.

This is not a troll or a flame but i would be interested to know your thoughts on this.

says who? this is said often as if it is the truth.

load of <deleted>.

[Maigo6]

I don't think we defend Thailand as much as we love to further irritate the wanke_rs that endlessly complain about everything they can't handle

[lannaman]

I think you fellas just think too much. Just get on and enjoy living in this wonderful country. Maybe living here in Chiang Rai we are blinkered from any troubles in BKK, but what I do know is this: here we are not regulated to a tenth degree like folk are in UK, I feel there's far more freedom living here. Life's too short, so just think on the good things here and enjoy it!

[Maigo6]

It seems it only takes three responses to abandon the question and start blaming people who take a different view.

This I think is in part the answer to the question the OP asked (as opposed to the question some thought the OP asked) some people are just incapable of accepting that other people might have different opinions and want to express those opinions.

So why do you critisize the poster who made the 3rd response ?

Edited November 19, 2008 by Maigo6

[Dakhar]

They get a thrill out of defending Thailand because they think they have some "special" link or connection to Thailand that is beyond your limitied abilities.

Kind of a "Timothy Treadwell" kind of thing & we all know what happened to him....

Hmmm "Tastes like Chincken"

[dumball]

I was the one who wrote the piece about the big sign 'On arrival' at the airport that reads " Please deposit your money in the bin , then go home " , it brought me a lot of flack by the constant pack of wanabees , delusinary losers and pendantic perfectionists .

I hope they have been taking note of the exodus of more informed expats to less confrontational destinations , the cut in tourism of 30% can also be partially attributed to the 'Problems of Thailand' , yet still they deny and defend , i feel sorry for them in some ways .

I enjoyed my time spent in Thailand and would still be there because of the pleasures and happiness i felt , but i finally admited the fact to myself , "Self , you are not wanted here " so i left .I feel more needed where i am accepted , gives a great feeling and sense of satisfaction .

[Maigo6]

I was the one who wrote the piece about the big sign 'On arrival' at the airport that reads " Please deposit your money in the bin , then go home " , it brought me a lot of flack by the constant pack of wanabees , delusinary losers and pendantic perfectionists .

I hope they have been taking note of the exodus of more informed expats to less confrontational destinations , the cut in tourism of 30% can also be partially attributed to the 'Problems of Thailand' , yet still they deny and defend , i feel sorry for them in some ways .

I enjoyed my time spent in Thailand and would still be there because of the pleasures and happiness i felt , but i finally admited the fact to myself , "Self , you are not wanted here " so i left .I feel more needed where i am accepted , gives a great feeling and sense of satisfaction .

Does that mean if I was better informed I would move to Camdobia too ?

( By the way, the "leave your money at the airport and leave" piece has been done a million times before on this forum. )

[Colonel_Mustard]

I don't think I have ever read a post on here claiming that Thailand has no issues/problems or that everything is perfect here, nor do I remember seeing a post from anyone wishing to be Thai.

Clearly there is good and bad in Thailand just like anywhere else but some people will choose to primarily focus on the bad whereas others will mainly focus on the good. I would suspect that is a reasonable indication of how happy or successful somebody has been here. Those that haven't settled easily are more likely to feel the frustrations and have a negative impression, while those that have found a degree of happiness or comfort here are perhaps more likely to see the positive.

Some expats have developed an emotional attachment to Thailand and as such are likely to defend it, just as you would anything that you have an attachment to, be it a place, person, football team etc. That is human nature and doesn't apply just to Thailand, nor does it mean that those that defend it are unaware of its faults.

[Misplaced]

I was the one who wrote the piece about the big sign 'On arrival' at the airport that reads " Please deposit your money in the bin , then go home " , it brought me a lot of flack by the constant pack of wanabees , delusinary losers and pendantic perfectionists .

I hope they have been taking note of the exodus of more informed expats to less confrontational destinations , the cut in tourism of 30% can also be partially attributed to the 'Problems of Thailand' , yet still they deny and defend , i feel sorry for them in some ways .

I enjoyed my time spent in Thailand and would still be there because of the pleasures and happiness i felt , but i finally admited the fact to myself , "Self , you are not wanted here " so i left .I feel more needed where i am accepted , gives a great feeling and sense of satisfaction .

So you don't feel accepted because Thai people don't need you, sounds to me like you have a low self-esteem issue.

[Dakhar]

I was the one who wrote the piece about the big sign 'On arrival' at the airport that reads " Please deposit your money in the bin , then go home " , it brought me a lot of flack by the constant pack of wanabees , delusinary losers and pendantic perfectionists .

I hope they have been taking note of the exodus of more informed expats to less confrontational destinations , the cut in tourism of 30% can also be partially attributed to the 'Problems of Thailand' , yet still they deny and defend , i feel sorry for them in some ways .

I enjoyed my time spent in Thailand and would still be there because of the pleasures and happiness i felt , but i finally admited the fact to myself , "Self , you are not wanted here " so i left .I feel more needed where i am accepted , gives a great feeling and sense of satisfaction .

So you don't feel accepted because Thai people don't need you, sounds to me like you have a low self-esteem issue.

To admit need, would be the same as admitting inadequacies, something a Thai will not do, and something many of the Thai defenders refuse to do.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Dakhar

[Maigo6]

To admit need, would be the same as admitting inadequacies, something a Thai will not do, and something many of the Thai defenders refuse to do.

Huh...

Do you mean the 65 Million Thai people that you don't know, or the one that married you ?

[werbs]

i see the hard of thinking have managed to drag this thread into the "it happens in other countries also" stupidity.

once again I will say that this is a Thai forum to discuss Thailand, and whether it happens in other countries is not relevant to most discussions on here as we are discussing Thailand and not other countries.