Why Do Some Ex Pats Defend Thailand At All Costs

[GENeIsUS]

I don't think I have ever read a post on here claiming that Thailand has no issues/problems or that everything is perfect here, nor do I remember seeing a post from anyone wishing to be Thai.

Clearly there is good and bad in Thailand just like anywhere else but some people will choose to primarily focus on the bad whereas others will mainly focus on the good. I would suspect that is a reasonable indication of how happy or successful somebody has been here. Those that haven't settled easily are more likely to feel the frustrations and have a negative impression, while those that have found a degree of happiness or comfort here are perhaps more likely to see the positive.

Some expats have developed an emotional attachment to Thailand and as such are likely to defend it, just as you would anything that you have an attachment to, be it a place, person, football team etc. That is human nature and doesn't apply just to Thailand, nor does it mean that those that defend it are unaware of its faults.

Couldn't agree more, Colonel. I have lived and worked here in Thailand off and on since 64 and finally retired here 18 years ago. I stopped trying to defend her some time back, as she has changed and will continue to change for better or worse, who knows.

I leave the defending to my beloved wife, who is Thai and leans just a klick or two the right of Attila the Hun. She has ideas for her enemies which would make the practioneers of the Spanish Inquistion green with envy. Be that as it may, I will continue to bury my head in the sand and enjoy what life I have left in this country without trying to judge.

[Ulysses G.]

That is just one example but for the most part, guys are so grateful for getting some sex from someone that they lose the plot and become more Thai than Thais !

I've lived in a number of countries including some in Asia and guys elsewhere don't act like this. Why ? because the main reason for being in most countries is not to get laid. In Thailand it is, however which way it is neatly packaged and wrapped up.

Ain't it the truth!

[snowflake]

I guess it has something to do with other peoples perception or views on things... We are not all the same...

I can name 100's of things that I think is wrong with this country, but that does not mean you will agree with me on all of them. So when someone wants to complain about a certain thing, well I am sure that someone else will think it is good...

Ex. During certain holidays the shops are not allowed to sell beer, this irritates many people, but some people complain about it. I do not drink beer (honestly) and I do not think that it is wrong for the Gov. to stop shops on certain days. I dont like it but it is not bad. (I tell my friends to buy in advance).

From this example we can clearly see that some people here would complain, what is your view? Surely not the same as the rest of the world? People are different. Is everyone wrong because you have a different view?

In the end, some people defend Thailand just because they like the place and are able to look away from some of the things that other complain about. Might be that some also just like to wind up other people...

Relax, you can't change anything here... So go with the flow... Jai Yen Jai Yen...

[Maigo6]

In the end, some people defend Thailand just because they like the place and are able to look away from some of the things that other complain about. Might be that some also just like to wind up other people...

[bassmaster50]

I agree with Huey as far as I am proud to be American and do not wish to be Thai or anything else. However, I do tire of people who complain about everything and everyone in Thailand to such a degree that one is bound to ask the question, "So why don't you leave then?" Some expats seem to have the opinion, "I Ihate this country and I hate the Thais but it is cheap and I cannot get l--d back home but I can buy sex off your women on the cheap so I will do you all a favor and live here anyway." I myself, being American, am not very impressed by the political system here. Who is? Not even the Thais, from what I see. And there are appalling abuses of human rights. I myself work in a voluntary capacity to attempt to combat some of that. So far, I don't really think I have accomplished much and perhaps never will. But I believe if one sees something wrong it is better to try to change it than just complain about it. Like someone else here said, why don't people just live life? If something is bad then say it is bad. Just as long as you can also see what is good. And as far as being accepted by Thais, or thought of as Thai, I don't believe a farang will ever obtain this but who wants to? In many places in this country the Thais treat me better than their countrymen.

[Maigo6]

Some expats seem to have the opinion, "I Ihate this country and I hate the Thais but it is cheap and I cannot get l--d back home but I can buy sex off your women on the cheap so I will do you all a favor and live here anyway."

LOL... ain't that the truth.

[Kerryd]

The Topic title could have just as easily been "Why Do Some Ex Pats Complain About Everything In Thailand, At All Times"

Because it does seem that some expats seem to to relish in complaining about every tiny little flaw, and every wee little difference between Thailand and wherever they came from.

The old "If you don't like it, go home" argument goes right over their heads, or perhaps is ignored because they can't go "home" for what ever reason. When pushed to answer the question "If it's so bad here, show me somewhere that is better", they usually slink back to whatever bridge they normally live under.

I strive for a balance, defend Thailand when it is defensible, don't defend it when it isn't. I am always aware I will never be Thai or seen as Thai by Thais and I actually like that aspect of living here. Fitting in is overrated. I am curious to read the theories about the extreme defenders, a very interesting topic, but I don't have a clue!

Exactly. Not everything is perfect, and there's very few things we (as expats) are going to be able to change, especially if the sum total of our actions is whining about everything on this forum.

I'll never be considered Thai. Simply impossible, even if I somehow ended up with full citizenship and a Thai passport. I laugh when my landlady introduces me as her younger brother and tells people I am "Khon Thai" (the looks on some peoples faces though, when she says that and then I tell them I come from a village in Petchabun, is worth a chuckle).

I don't think we defend Thailand as much as we love to further irritate the wanke_rs that endlessly complain about everything they can't handle

As I mentioned above, there do seem to be those that feel compelled to whine about everything.

As for the psychology of the "whiners", perhaps they feel that, being forced to live here against their will (apparently), that it is up to Thailand to bend over backwards to accommodate their every whim and desire ?

Then again, it would seem that many of them arrive here with a very "colonial master" mindset, and look upon anything (and anyone) that doesn't conform with their standards, as inferior. (And it's not just Brits I'm referring to. I've seen that kind of attitude expressed by people from at least 4 different countries).

Some of these people should be bending over and kissing the ground they walk on, because I suspect if they didn't have Thailand, they would have nothing.

[Maigo6]

I'm amongst the very small group of posters on this forum that could be decribed as defenders of Thailand.

Do I think I'm Thai ? No

Would I surrender my UK citizenship for Thai citizenship and lose my pension/welfare rights ? No chance.

Would I like to be Thai ? No, I get treated very well here being a Farang.

Do I not realise that Thailand has problems ? Of course I do, but so has everywhere else so what's the point in moaning about it. Nothing will change, you just get all bitter and twisted realizing that you are a small fish in a large pond on the wrong end of the food chain.

Yet, hoardes of people still flock to Thailand, some stay and are happy, some realise that Thailand is not for them and leave.......and then you have those that realise Thailand is not for them and stay anyway, join an anonymous internet forum and spend hours a day trying to convert the happy people to their way of thinking.

Thailand is what it is, it's the place YOU chose to come to, if you now feel that the move you made was a bad decision, don't blame Thailand, blame yourself.

[Colonel_Mustard]

I'm amongst the very small group of posters on this forum that could be decribed as defenders of Thailand.

Do I think I'm Thai ? No

Would I surrender my UK citizenship for Thai citizenship and lose my pension/welfare rights ? No chance.

Would I like to be Thai ? No, I get treated very well here being a Farang.

Do I not realise that Thailand has problems ? Of course I do, but so has everywhere else so what's the point in moaning about it. Nothing will change, you just get all bitter and twisted realizing that you are a small fish in a large pond on the wrong end of the food chain.

Yet, hoardes of people still flock to Thailand, some stay and are happy, some realise that Thailand is not for them and leave.......and then you have those that realise Thailand is not for them and stay anyway, join an anonymous internet forum and spend hours a day trying to convert the happy people to their way of thinking.

Thailand is what it is, it's the place YOU chose to come to, if you now feel that the move you made was a bad decision, don't blame Thailand, blame yourself.

Spot on old chap.

[mikethevigoman]

Same reason a mother will defend a guilty son, misguided loyalty,.same reason a supporter supports a football team doomed for relegation,

[camerata]

Farangs will never be accepted by the Thais as a Thai no matter how long they live or have lived here.

No, but why should they? To begin with, very few farangs (unlike Chinese or Indians) choose to apply for citizenship. Thailand has never been a country that encouraged immigration or was built on immigration like, say, the USA, Australia or Canada. It's never been the case that by accepting certain ideals and getting PR or citizenship, you are accepted as Thai. To be accepted as Thai you generally have to behave like a Thai and hold Thai values, something most farang are unwilling to do. Japan is pretty much the same. In fact, in both countries it probably helps to look Oriental too. That's just the way it is.

I don't think the national anthem tells us much about Thais today. A lot of national anthems are rabidly nationalistic because they were composed at a time when nation-states were being formed.

As for expats defending Thailand, I think that there is so much negativity about Thailand in forums that those who have made a success of living here would like to counter it by focusing on the good stuff rather than the bad. Everyone knows about the bad stuff but very few seem to know about or appreciate the good. If your mindset is to focus on the bad and criticize Thailand all the time, you won't have a happy time in Thailand and the Thais around you won't be happy.

[Maigo6]

Same reason a mother will defend a guilty son, misguided loyalty,.same reason a supporter supports a football team doomed for relegation,

My mother defended me, and I support Charlton Athletic, there's no hope for me at all Mike.

[Dakhar]

To admit need, would be the same as admitting inadequacies, something a Thai will not do, and something many of the Thai defenders refuse to do.

Huh...

Do you mean the 65 Million Thai people that you don't know, or the one that married you ?

Oh good one mister ambasordor, what would Thailand do without out you here to defend it?

[sgunn65]

Milton "In itself, man can make a hel_l of heaven or a heaven of hel_l in his mind"

Shakespeare " There's nothing in this world that's good or bad but thinking makes it so"

[Maigo6]

To admit need, would be the same as admitting inadequacies, something a Thai will not do, and something many of the Thai defenders refuse to do.

Huh...

Do you mean the 65 Million Thai people that you don't know, or the one that married you ?

Oh good one mister ambasordor, what would Thailand do without out you here to defend it?

It would carry on in the Thai way, just as it will carry on and survive in the Thai way despite your moaning about it. Cos if I defend or you attack Thailand, in the grand scheme of things, it's makes not one iota of difference to Thailand, only to yourself, so I tend to look upon the positive whilst you prefer to look upon the negative. We have a choice, that's what makes a forum,

let's face it, if the forum was nothing but Thai bashing, it would be banned from local servers probably, you know what the censorship is like here............LOL, you see it's infectious, I'm moaning about something I can't change...

Just to add, if I was as unhappy as many of the Thai bashers appear to be in Thailand, I'd be on the first available flight out, or I'd live a pretty miserable life here if I had no choice.

Luckily I have a choice, and I choose to remain here, if that's OK with the majority of the posters here.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Maigo6

[JimsKnight]

Hi All,

I have noticed that on many of the threads that a number Ex Pats defend Thailand as if it's their own country. Whatever the case may be, murder, drug use, buying property or the drop in tourism. Its never the fault of the thais or Thailand. There are many faults in this country as indeed there are in most countries of the world, but at some point someone must accept some of the responsibility. Reading the daily news and watching the national TV news stations it's very apparent that Thailand is politically unstable even to the point of calling a state of emergency in the past months. It's also very apparent that crime is rising in the country, maybe because of the political instability. This will affect tourism in the short and long term because people don't want to holiday in countries that have these problems.

The news is being aired all over the world so people are aware of the problems and i think that this reflects on peoples decisions to travel here. I have had calls from my friends and family In The UK asking if i was OK because of the situations are being shown on the news. The problems that i have mentioned are real, they exist, so why do a number of Ex Pats believe that they do not.

The usual answers are: 'You do not speak the language so you don't understand the culture'. 'You don't live in Thailand so what do you know'.

I think that the first lines of the national anthem pretty much sum up the thoughts of the majority of the Thais and certainly the ones that have been tied up in the farang rich areas of Phuket and Pattaya.

Thailand embraces in its bosom all people of Thai blood.

Every inch of Thailand belongs to the Thais.

It has long maintained its sovereignty,

Because the Thais have always been united.

The Thai people are peace-loving,

But they are no cowards at war.

They shall allow no one to rob them of their independence,

Nor shall they suffer tyranny.

All Thais are ready to give up every drop of blood

For the nation's safety, freedom and progress.

Farangs will never be accepted by the Thais as a Thai no matter how long they live or have lived here.

This is not a troll or a flame but i would be interested to know your thoughts on this.

Cheers, Rick

A a fair few tend to be emeshed into a farm on a village or house in Isaan and are pretty much stuck in the 'golden cage' with a thai family holding the key.

It really is a case of 'can't beat em? Join em'

And so they speak up for the Thais.

This is not always a bad thing though.

As a city-kind of guy more than the country I only defend Thailand on the grounds of its less bs here than back home and you there is more freedom here than in N/W Europe.

[Dakhar]

To admit need, would be the same as admitting inadequacies, something a Thai will not do, and something many of the Thai defenders refuse to do.

Huh...

Do you mean the 65 Million Thai people that you don't know, or the one that married you ?

Oh good one mister ambasordor, what would Thailand do without out you here to defend it?

It would carry on in the Thai way, just as it will carry on and survive in the Thai way despite your moaning about it. Cos if I defend or you attack Thailand, in the grand scheme of things, it's makes not one iota of difference to Thailand, only to yourself, so I tend to look upon the positive whilst you prefer to look upon the negative. We have a choice, that's what makes a forum,

let's face it, if the forum was nothing but Thai bashing, it would be banned from local servers probably, you know what the censorship is like here............LOL, you see it's infectious, I'm moaning about something I can't change...

Just to add, if I was as unhappy as many of the Thai bashers appear to be in Thailand, I'd be on the first available flight out, or I'd live a pretty miserable life here if I had no choice.

Luckily I have a choice, and I choose to remain here, if that's OK with the majority of the posters here.

Whatever, face it, you insulted me on a personal level. There is no reason now to wax philosophical about it. A simple apology would do... but as another anoying person once said.

"Thanks, but no Thanks."

[Pakboong]

Many here tend to identify with the aboriginal underclass for whatever reason. Defending them requires relentless effort, at least in the minds of those with a need. Kind of like defending the South African Blacks against apartheid some 20 years ago.

[Gary A]

Why would I want to be Thai? Had I been born Thai there is no doubt in my mind that I would not be retired and enjoying life with decent pensions that allow me to live quite well here.

The Brits taught me one of my favorite words. Whinge or whinger. It is one of the few words that means what it sounds like. There are more whingers than farangs who defend everything that is Thai. It's good that people have different opinions on nearly every subject that exists. If I couldn't be amused here on Thai Visa, I'd have to find other ways to waste my time.

Would you believe that a red light violation in California will cost you about $500? Would you prefer that or a cop who is happy with a 200 baht bribe? Ahhh, but you were NOT speeding. How many time were you speeding and didn't get caught? I don't HAVE to defend Thailand. I live here and enjoy my laid back life style. If I didn't like it, I'd go back to my home country. Many of you make joining the "If you don't like it go home" brigade an easy choice.

[Maigo6]

To admit need, would be the same as admitting inadequacies, something a Thai will not do, and something many of the Thai defenders refuse to do.

Huh...

Do you mean the 65 Million Thai people that you don't know, or the one that married you ?

Oh good one mister ambasordor, what would Thailand do without out you here to defend it?

It would carry on in the Thai way, just as it will carry on and survive in the Thai way despite your moaning about it. Cos if I defend or you attack Thailand, in the grand scheme of things, it's makes not one iota of difference to Thailand, only to yourself, so I tend to look upon the positive whilst you prefer to look upon the negative. We have a choice, that's what makes a forum,

let's face it, if the forum was nothing but Thai bashing, it would be banned from local servers probably, you know what the censorship is like here............LOL, you see it's infectious, I'm moaning about something I can't change...

Just to add, if I was as unhappy as many of the Thai bashers appear to be in Thailand, I'd be on the first available flight out, or I'd live a pretty miserable life here if I had no choice.

Luckily I have a choice, and I choose to remain here, if that's OK with the majority of the posters here.

Whatever, face it, you insulted me on a personal level. There is no reason now to wax philosophical about it. A simple apology would do... but as another anoying person once said.

"Thanks, but no Thanks."

Insult ? Where.......

You stated Thai people are incapable of expressing needs or inadequacies, not SOME Thai people, so assuming your wife is Thai she must surely fall into your catagorization of the whole nation.

So does my GF and her Family in your eyes, yet do you apologize for this wild statement, of course not, will it keep me awake at night, of course not.

You are just expressing your views, same as I am, yours are in the main very negative, mine are more positive, so an apology for what?

I think you owe all the 65 Million Thai people that you don't know an apology, but what difference would it make, you would still be moaning, and I'd still be defending.

Believe me I had no intention of waxing lyrical to you or anyone else, your response that you feel personally insulted is a result of your inability to see things in a wider view, we're not all miserable in Thailand mate, some actually like the place.

Anyway, have a good day, if that's possible.

[twschw]

i see the hard of thinking have managed to drag this thread into the "it happens in other countries also" stupidity.

once again I will say that this is a Thai forum to discuss Thailand, and whether it happens in other countries is not relevant to most discussions on here as we are discussing Thailand and not other countries.

I don't think this is a Thai forum.I believe this is a forum that was set up for people of other countries who have some connection to Thailand to discuss topics regarding Thailand thus the title Expat forum. So, that being established, it is perfectly acceptable to equate what happens in Thailand with other countries since most of the members of Thaivisa are citizens of other countries. Comparision is inevitable and welcomed in my humble opinion.

[Richb2004v2]

I don't think it is anything other than natural for expats to voice their complaints about Thailand. Like me I think most of them appreciate Thailand for what it is, but at the same time feel frustrated at what it could be, and how much better it could be. No one can really be criticized for wanting the driving conditions to be improved or Thailand not to be strewn with garbage or some such complaint. These things are considered inexpensive improvements to any country. Likewise the use of common sense and logic make for a better environment. Although no one believes that their complaints are going to have any effect at all they use this forum as an outlet where they hope to find like minded people with similar experiences. They probably don't expect to find folk from similar country's with similar upbringings and experience refuting them and telling them that their ideas are all wrong and that the Thais have it right.

There is a rule, which I forget the name of, which says that just because something is natural it does not make it right. I think this applies to Thailand. Just because the Thais have always done things in a certain way it does not make it right and it does not make good grounds for expats to defend it.

[ourmaninbangers]

To admit need, would be the same as admitting inadequacies, something a Thai will not do, and something many of the Thai defenders refuse to do.

Huh...

Do you mean the 65 Million Thai people that you don't know, or the one that married you ?

Oh good one mister ambasordor, what would Thailand do without out you here to defend it?

It would carry on in the Thai way, just as it will carry on and survive in the Thai way despite your moaning about it. Cos if I defend or you attack Thailand, in the grand scheme of things, it's makes not one iota of difference to Thailand, only to yourself, so I tend to look upon the positive whilst you prefer to look upon the negative. We have a choice, that's what makes a forum,

let's face it, if the forum was nothing but Thai bashing, it would be banned from local servers probably, you know what the censorship is like here............LOL, you see it's infectious, I'm moaning about something I can't change...

Just to add, if I was as unhappy as many of the Thai bashers appear to be in Thailand, I'd be on the first available flight out, or I'd live a pretty miserable life here if I had no choice.

Luckily I have a choice, and I choose to remain here, if that's OK with the majority of the posters here.

i have to agree with alot of what you say,

I notice how one poster you ' caught with his pants down' he did say ' thai,s" thus he included everyone, now does not like this, so does not like what he said, or you pointing out the flaw in it.... so lame.. so typical.... and thus attempts the popular TV members methods of regaining face by throwing petty insults which one should understand have the boomarang effect

anyway, let them by our sport, they are fun and taste good with ketchup!

and although I do hope if some people make the right complaints/observations we can make a change for the good- I know is hard and a stuggle and very fustrating at times

but we should try, not simply hope for the best, it amazing what a little postive effort can do

thai people ( including peoples wifes!)deserve so much better in terms of choices they have to make, life style, healthcare/education,law, etc, etc than what its ruling elite seems prepared to allow it

[OlRedEyes]

This is the land of denial. To live here, one has to do as the Thai do, go into denial.

I, like (I'd imagine) most foreigners, came here willing to learn, adapt and respect.

Through time, it's become apparent that there really is very little here to respect, and that to be able to survive here without constant anger and disgust I'd have to go into denial, or at least ignore all the crap around me. I certainly cannot, even if I were willing to, live in denial. Ignoring, I am only partly successful in. Therefore I will leave soon with my wife, who herself, after living with me for awhile abroad, described Thailand as a 'jail'.

My wife and her family are very moral people, and I respect them greatly. By extension I am sure there are similarly many Thais like them. They however, do not seem to come even close to anything like the majority, which makes this country a rather unsavoury place to live in.

I will always have a connection with this country, and will certainly spend time here from time to time.

I suspect that many who so vehemently defend Thailand at all costs are in denial. The good which they so boldly tout, is mostly plastic. Scratch the surface and very little real good is found here.

Which makes me terribly sad. I'd love to love Thailand.

Edited November 20, 2008 by OlRedEyes

[Misplaced]

To admit need, would be the same as admitting inadequacies, something a Thai will not do, and something many of the Thai defenders refuse to do.

Huh...

Do you mean the 65 Million Thai people that you don't know, or the one that married you ?

Oh good one mister ambasordor, what would Thailand do without out you here to defend it?

It would carry on in the Thai way, just as it will carry on and survive in the Thai way despite your moaning about it. Cos if I defend or you attack Thailand, in the grand scheme of things, it's makes not one iota of difference to Thailand, only to yourself, so I tend to look upon the positive whilst you prefer to look upon the negative. We have a choice, that's what makes a forum,

let's face it, if the forum was nothing but Thai bashing, it would be banned from local servers probably, you know what the censorship is like here............LOL, you see it's infectious, I'm moaning about something I can't change...

Just to add, if I was as unhappy as many of the Thai bashers appear to be in Thailand, I'd be on the first available flight out, or I'd live a pretty miserable life here if I had no choice.

Luckily I have a choice, and I choose to remain here, if that's OK with the majority of the posters here.

Whatever, face it, you insulted me on a personal level. There is no reason now to wax philosophical about it. A simple apology would do... but as another anoying person once said.

"Thanks, but no Thanks."

Insult ? Where.......

You stated Thai people are incapable of expressing needs or inadequacies, not SOME Thai people, so assuming your wife is Thai she must surely fall into your catagorization of the whole nation.

So does my GF and her Family in your eyes, yet do you apologize for this wild statement, of course not, will it keep me awake at night, of course not.

You are just expressing your views, same as I am, yours are in the main very negative, mine are more positive, so an apology for what?

I think you owe all the 65 Million Thai people that you don't know an apology, but what difference would it make, you would still be moaning, and I'd still be defending.

Believe me I had no intention of waxing lyrical to you or anyone else, your response that you feel personally insulted is a result of your inability to see things in a wider view, we're not all miserable in Thailand mate, some actually like the place.

Anyway, have a good day, if that's possible.

Unlikely that Mr. Scrooge will have a good day or ever had a good day. After all, he think you owe him an apology for reminding him to be a sourpuss.

Apparently he can dish it out but can't take it

[ourmaninbangers]

I don't think it is anything other than natural for expats to voice their complaints about Thailand. Like me I think most of them appreciate Thailand for what it is, but at the same time feel frustrated at what it could be, and how much better it could be. No one can really be criticized for wanting the driving conditions to be improved or Thailand not to be strewn with garbage or some such complaint. These things are considered inexpensive improvements to any country. Likewise the use of common sense and logic make for a better environment. Although no one believes that their complaints are going to have any effect at all they use this forum as an outlet where they hope to find like minded people with similar experiences. They probably don't expect to find folk from similar country's with similar upbringings and experience refuting them and telling them that their ideas are all wrong and that the Thais have it right.

There is a rule, which I forget the name of, which says that just because something is natural it does not make it right. I think this applies to Thailand. Just because the Thais have always done things in a certain way it does not make it right and it does not make good grounds for expats to defend it.

and to add to that rule if I may

just because something is natural does not make it ' good" either

Aids, cancer,poison are all natural.. do we just sit back and do nothing, let it happen...

letting people question things using logic and common sense ( genius in working clothes) must be a step in the right direction

[thaihome]

It is seems to me that what is often taken as “defending Thailand” is actually trying to point that there is another side to the storey that the person attacking or moaning about something is not taking into account. Most often this due tothe inability of the poster to see anything but from there own cultural perspective (which is always right).

TH

Ethnocentrism is the tendency to look at the world primarily from the perspective of one's own culture. Ethnocentrism often entails the belief that one's own race or ethnic group is the most important and/or that some or all aspects of its culture are superior to those of other groups. Within this ideology, individuals will judge other groups in relation to their own particular ethnic group or culture, especially with concern to language, behaviour, customs, and religion.

Edited November 20, 2008 by thaihome

[beechguy]

After you are here for awhile I think your perceptions change. Thailand is less than perfect, but if I defend it, it's because of my comparing it to where I've been in africa and the middle east. Both, far worse as far as I'm concerned, but makes you appreciate being here. I occasionally have my frustrations here, but overall I really enjoy it here and hope things will improve.

Edited November 20, 2008 by beechguy

[henryalleman]

People who defend Thailand at all costs IMHO opinion don't make an distinction between the environment they live in and the the way how the the country and society is organised. They just live in their ivory tower and close there eyes for the blatant injustices in the country, or live in an self created fairy tail afraid to see the naked truth about their live in LOS.

And yes, I will still move to Thailand very soon, not because I run away from problems in my own country, I even have a rather comfortable live over here, I have no family and children, I move because I'm married 33 years with a Thai lady who always had the dream to spend the end of her life in her home country, and who am I to deny her that dream.

And yes I feel at ease in the kingdom, and I confirm myself to the complicated Thai social etiquette, and have no problem with that. But that don't take the fact away that I can't close my eyes for the numerous shortcomings I see every day. Because Thailand is not at all the paradise and wonderful country proclaimed by the defenders. They pretend that Thailand is an unified country with an undivided population, and in fact is one big family who live in peace like big happy family.But this a fairy tail promoted by propaganda.

They deny that their is allover racism amongst Thais towards their own countrymen. Bangkokians and people from central Thailand look down on people from Isan, Thais in general look down on people whit a darker skin, they have an unspoken hate against ethnic Chinese who on their turn find Thais lazy, while Thais find ethnic Lao lazy and in general look down on them. Not yet to mention their adversity against the many Burmese fugitives who they exploit in every way possible even deny them an education. How Many times you see an mixed Chinese/Thai marriage.

The social racism is even higher, but is masked after politeness. The rich upper class who rule the country don't give a dam_n about the welfare of the country but only think about how they can maintain their power.

In short you can like and love Thai people ( I do), but somebody who don't put his head in the ground can't defend the social and political structure of the country. Because their is no free speech, no social justice, no political justice, no ........ the list is endless.

personally I think that most of the people who criticize are people who have an genuine love for the country and maybe even more than the defenders, but are just frustrated about the things they see, and because its not possible to discus this with Thais, they only have TV to ventilate their frustration.

In my country we have a motto;

" the converted ones are the most fanatic defenders of their new religion"

PS: visited the country for more than 30 years and have a large Thai/Chinese family allover the country.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I get the impression that some of the people that criticize Thailand the most do not live here or spend relatively little time here. Makes you wonder why they really care one way or another. Just bored and need something to do perhaps.

Like others have stated, Thailand is far from perfect but a pretty darn nice place to live. So I for one will stay here until something better comes along.