4 Grenades Explode Near Thailand's Anti-government Tv Station

[Jai Dee]

10,000 Thai protesters surround PM's office

About 10,000 anti-government protesters have besieged the Thai prime minister's temporary offices at an abandoned airport, in their latest bid to stop the government functioning, police said.

Yellow-clad supporters of the People's Alliance of Democracy (PAD) took trucks, buses and private cars to the old Don Mueang international airport on the northern outskirts of the capital Bangkok today.

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat moved to makeshift headquarters to the airport in September after demonstrators seized control of the formal cabinet offices in the city centre in late August.

“There are about 10,000 protesters at Don Mueang,” a police spokesman said.

The protesters were headed by core leaders of the PAD, which accuses the government elected in December of being corrupt and a puppet of exiled former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Thousands of protesters descended on parliament yesterday, forcing lawmakers to postpone an important joint session, and also began moving to the airport.

The PAD was at the forefront of street protests that led to the coup that toppled Thaksin in September 2006, and it is trying the same tactic with the current government.

It says it wants to cripple the government of Somchai, who is Thaksin's brother-in-law, but government spokesman Nattawut Saikuar said the weekly cabinet meeting normally scheduled for Tuesday was not taking place.

“The cabinet meeting was rescheduled on Wednesday afternoon after prime minister Somchai arrives from Lima (for an APEC summit). The government has not cancelled or postponed its meeting,” Nattawut told AFP.

“They wanted to blockade the government, they want to step up pressure on us but the government still adheres to peaceful means of negotiation,” he said.

Source: AFP - 25 November 2008

[JoeInSurin]

Why do you keep claiming the gas grenades are from china and if so which ones? Here is the thread about the grenades and it points to the grenades being US grenades, not Chinese. I read they modified the grenades to be more explosive, how much truth is in that I don't know, however I am sure the gas grenades are not suppose to blow off people's limbs.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/131008_News/13Oct2008_news08.ph

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=131394

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...=china+tear+gas

Please show me proof that points to the US tear gas being bad as you are claiming and not from China.

[Jai Dee]

Photographs from Matichon - 25 November 2008

[Mobi]

PAD vehicles not allowed to use expressway without paying fees

As I have said before, I am not necessarily anti PAD, but the fact remains that they are the chief culprits in engendering a state of near anarchy in Thailand.

Tens of thousand take over government buildings, prevent parliament from sitting, and amongst other lawless actions, they now hijack buses.

The police and army stand largely impotent to stop them.

But can they drive their hi-jacked buses down the tollway?

No way - the doughty expressway officials stand by their 'guns' and refuse to let them pass until they pay the 100 Baht tolls.

The "people's army" cannot advance until the tolls are paid.

Monty Python and Blackadder combined couldn't make this up

[catmac]

PAD vehicles not allowed to use expressway without paying fees

Several vehicles of the People's Alliance for Democracy caused traffic snarls in front of the Yommaraj gate of the expressway after the protesters refused to pay toll for using the expressway.

Yes we are PAD, we don't have to pay tolls, we can carry weapons and steal buses, spit on police officers, push them to the ground. Yes, we are PAD the thugs of Thailand, we do what we want and don't care about others.

IMHO, I believe that PAD should be able to access the toll-way for free. Afterall many of us leave our work to come to protect country against dictatorship. The PAD are doing it for good cause, so the Toll way people, if you are Thai, should also help out the PAD. This is not too much to ask for. Anyway, we are not asking the toll way staff to pay the toll for us. We are just asking you to open the gate for PAD vehicle. There is no cost on your side. Thai "Nam Jai" is priceless. Even MasterCard cannot buy that. We in exchange will give you some yellow t-shirt and hand clappers.

Must have come as a bit of a shock to them, though. After all, clown Sondhi said that all the state workers were ardent PAD-lovers, sems he was wrong yet again. By the way, whatever happened to that general strike that was also supposed to be taking place?

[animatic]

You make your rhetorical bed on the side of law and order,

but when it comes down to it you are SUPPORTing re-written laws

that WILL cause greater disorder by their nature. Written by criminals to

abet and pardon and condon more criminal actions, only marginally under

cover, of a pseudo legality of parlementary procedures.

You are saying if the watch dog doesn't act like a house pet, ignore it's barking,

then any thieves it announces are not thieves because the watchdog isn't a perfect pet.

This is NAÏVE Empericalism.

Is there :

'Evidence of no wrong doing', that you have found

So proved that no shenangians took place or are planned.

or have you found

'No evidence of wrong doing'?

So nothing wrong happened?

And so nothing wrong WILL happen?

Not the same thing.

Gee, I can't FIND cancer where I looked, so you don't have cancer.

I have looked everywhere and there are no signs of cancer.

They haven't re-written the charter to benefit themselves before,

so WHY would I think they will do it now?....

We KNOW from their own words they plan on re-writting the charter to their benefit ASAP.

DO you really think the Thai population in general is going to benefit from this.

They want to let themselves and Thaksin off the hook, They've said as much.

and give themselves cartle blanche to run the country with little consideration

of the people except for some pre-election sops for their voting blocks.

Oh and lest we forget,

Thaksin has announced his intention to comeback as PM:

Can't do that without a Charter Re-write and the clock is ticking....

Edited November 25, 2008 by animatic

[Mobi]

[

Please show me proof that points to the US tear gas being bad as you are claiming and not from China.

I wonder if JoInSurin is related to Joe the Plumber?

[werbs]

Joe, sorry again but your premise that attacking people with lethal weapons is an acceptable way to disperse a crowd (that had been given no legal order to disperse) is asinine!

If you want a link that would be good reading for you and quotes Thailand's most respected and independent FORENSICS EXPERT as well as including quotes from a very important person in Thailand you should look at this.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131399

the police did not fire a lethal weapon into the crowd, they fired tear gas which is a none lethal weapon. if they fired their guns into the crowd then you would be spot on. the fact that some tear gas canisters caused death does not then make tear gas a lethal weapon.

since you like to defend the criminals at all costs, maybe you would like to explain to me about the four poliemen who were shot on this day in october, or the policeman stabbed with fence post. The police are allowed to defend themselves, even letahl force is reasonable in certain circumstances, in my opinion the police were very lenient on that day

[h90]

Please leave the place out of this forum. Mentioning "dead" in relation to the place is even worst. Watch what you are typing. I am sure you don't mean any harm, but it may be misunderstood by some. be on the save side.

Meaning is (but english is bad and maybe missleading) they are ready to risk their life to protect the monarchy or the royal family and mention that all the time.

[werbs]

PAD vehicles not allowed to use expressway without paying fees

As I have said before, I am not necessarily anti PAD, but the fact remains that they are the chief culprits in engendering a state of near anarchy in Thailand.

Tens of thousand take over government buildings, prevent parliament from sitting, and amongst other lawless actions, they now hijack buses.

The police and army stand largely impotent to stop them.

But can they drive their hi-jacked buses down the tollway?

No way - the doughty expressway officials stand by their 'guns' and refuse to let them pass until they pay the 100 Baht tolls.

The "people's army" cannot advance until the tolls are paid.

Monty Python and Blackadder combined couldn't make this up

[catmac]

10,000 Thai protesters surround PM's office

About 10,000 anti-government protesters have besieged the Thai prime minister's temporary offices at an abandoned airport, in their latest bid to stop the government functioning, police said.

Sorry to play the old numbers game again, but just look at those figures!

Sunday: 40,000 max

Monday: 18 to 20,000.

Today: 10,000

Keep up the good work, by Friday there probably won't be enough to fill just one hi-jacked bus!

[werbs]

Please leave the place out of this forum. Mentioning "dead" in relation to the place is even worst. Watch what you are typing. I am sure you don't mean any harm, but it may be misunderstood by some. be on the save side.

Meaning is (but english is bad and maybe missleading) they are ready to risk their life to protect the monarchy or the royal family and mention that all the time.

well tell them to feel free to go to the border with cambodia and protect thailand there. i fail to see what danger the monarchy is in that they need protecting by a group of criminals. the army are there to protect the country and the monarchy

[frodo]

Again, please direct me to a specific area where it clearly states that the police intended to kill this young woman. The police are doing their job, and this girl happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

DAAD/UDD people also get killed. Does the PAD intend to kill them too. Similar to the PAD girl, those DAAD/UDD were caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. I am sorry for both side. Don't just use the poor PAD girl for a one-sided argument. Explain as well why DAAD/UDD people DESERVE to DIE.

Nice try. It is apparent the girl did nothing wrong, but she was accused of breaking the law and defying police. Your statement is irrelevant since I never made any such statement to begin with. The original statements I refer to:

1. The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Followed by:

2. These things happen to people that break the law and defy the police.

I realize you feel that the police are doing their job using the explosives they did and even after the first round was fired, it was realized these were not just simple tear gas canisters. They continued to fire anyway killing an innocent bystander who was neither a lawbreaker or defying police.

Did I say anyone deserved to die? No, I did not, therefore I owe you no explanation about anything. Furthermore, I am not the one who made the initial statements about the young girl to begin with. All I asked was that a simple question be answered since a member claimed she was a lawbreaker and I asked for proof of that and the question has not been answered. It's really not that one-sided at all.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Jai Dee
multiple nested quotes deleted

[Nowhereman60]

If PAD comes into power will the tolls be free to everyone?

[h90]

Monty Python and Blackadder combined couldn't make this up

You are right, that would fit perfectly in a Monty Python movie. The revolution did not happen because they driver did to have the coins for the toll fee.....

[Plus]

the fact remains that they are the chief culprits in engendering a state of near anarchy in Thailand.

The fact remains that PAD is only a natural response to the government that is not working for the people or the country but for Thaksin.

All the govt has to do is stop supporting Thaksin and PAD will pack up and leave them alone.

[Plus]

The revolution did not happen because they driver did to have the coins for the toll fee.....

There was a coup attempt in the 80ies which was stopped when the coup makers got stuck in Bangkok traffic.

[werbs]

the fact remains that they are the chief culprits in engendering a state of near anarchy in Thailand.

The fact remains that PAD is only a natural response to the government that is not working for the people or the country but for Thaksin.

All the govt has to do is stop supporting Thaksin and PAD will pack up and leave them alone.

so you are saying only thaksin is the problem for the PAD, if the government no longer support him PAD will pack up, and then the government will be free to continue with corruption so long as they dont support thaksin while they do it

[CuttySark]

Nice try. It is apparent the girl did nothing wrong, but she was accused of breaking the law and defying police. Your statement is irrelevant since I never made any such statement to begin with. The original statements I refer to:

1. The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Followed by:

2. These things happen to people that break the law and defy the police.

I realize you feel that the police are doing their job using the explosives they did and even after the first round was fired, it was realized these were not just simple tear gas canisters. They continued to fire anyway killing an innocent bystander who was neither a lawbreaker or defying police.

Did I say anyone deserved to die? No, I did not, therefore I owe you no explanation about anything. Furthermore, I am not the one who made the initial statements about the young girl to begin with. All I asked was that a simple question be answered since a member claimed she was a lawbreaker and I asked for proof of that and the question has not been answered. It's really not that one-sided at all.

Someone said this before: "If you go into a battle, you have to prepare to die". So be in. PAD girl, UDD guy, American soilder in Iraq, British soilder in Falkland. They all deserves to die, because they die for a cause, and all of them are honored for their death. They volunteer (or paid in the case of solider) to go to battle knowing the chances of the consequence.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Jai Dee
multiple nested quotes deleted

[old wanderer]

If PAD comes into power will the tolls be free to everyone?

For the 1000's time....THE PAD ARE NOT TRYING TO COME TO POWER!

The are simply protesting the res erection of the criminal Thaskin and his clan.

(If you speak Thai, listen to the chants.....GET OUT< GET OUT)

[Los78]

General Kattiya Warns of More Attack against ASTV Headquarters

source: TOC 24 November 2008

General Kattiya Sawasdiphol has warned ASTV staff of more attacks against the ASTV headquarters on Phra Arthit Road.

baht&sold: can you please provide other news-links, other than from the TOC/ASTV who are owned/co-owned by Sondhi Limthongkul the founder of PAD, since I didn't read of any of such ''warnings'' in the other press sources.

Thanks.

LaoPo

You have a good point. Many articles that are posted from TOC/ASTV or in other words (PAD news channel) It has to be the most one sided news in the country. At least post a few more independent articles from other sources to support the TOC article to make it a little more truthful and believable. It shows a lot of TV members are so caught up in Sondhi's Propaganda ASTV that they cant see the difference between yellow and blue.

[Los78]

10,000 Thai protesters surround PM's office

About 10,000 anti-government protesters have besieged the Thai prime minister's temporary offices at an abandoned airport, in their latest bid to stop the government functioning, police said.

Sorry to play the old numbers game again, but just look at those figures!

Sunday: 40,000 max

Monday: 18 to 20,000.

Today: 10,000

Keep up the good work, by Friday there probably won't be enough to fill just one hi-jacked bus!

Hahaha good point. Their numbers are only 100,000 + if you read TOC or listen to ASTV. Their numbers are nothing like what was reported earlier.

[animatic]

Someone said this before: "If you go into a battle, you have to prepare to die". So be in. PAD girl, UDD guy, American soilder in Iraq, British soilder in Falkland. They all deserves to die, because they die for a cause, and all of them are honored for their death. They volunteer (or paid in the case of solider) to go to battle knowing the chances of the consequence.

None of them deserved to die.

deserved

–adjective

justly or rightly earned; merited:

a deserved increase in salary.

They died because they believed in a cause,

but that doesn't automatically mean they must die for it

to still be doing the right thing.

They merited acclaim and praise for their actions,

they did NOT merit death.

A person who rapes and dismembers small children

to avoid being caught might deserve death, or not.

That slime would certainly deserve harsh punishment.

Edited November 25, 2008 by Jai Dee
multiple nested quotes deleted

[Ricardo]

I would suggest that the new Constitution, prepared during the junta-appointed government's time in power, was at least voted-for by a majority of the people in a referendum.

The problem with any PPP-led coalition-government attempt to impose their own modifications, to that Constitution, is that they appear to be trying to do so without any attempt to consult the people. And to be trying to rush this through, before the courts disband the PPP for electoral misdeeds, bringing the government down.

Hence the problems on the streets right now.

The current Constitution is undoubtedly imperfect, all sides would want to modify it to some degree, why is it so hard for the government to do this in a consensual way ?

Unless the changes are ratified by the voters, how can anybody claim that such modifications are democratic, rather than an imposed white-wash to satisfy only the needs of of the PPP's paymaster in Dubai ?

The referendum is one-sided. It ask (1) take this new constitution or (2) no conttitution at all. It should have ask (1) take this constitution or (2) revert back to the constitution which we have just burnned.

Perhaps this is an opportunity for the current government to do better, than the previous one, do you think ?

Government can change the law with asking the people. The MP vote on it, you vote for the MP, hence you have mandated for the MP to vote on your behalfs. If not, there will be a referendum every other week, if the government decides to do anything. This is the rule. If you don't like the rule, vote for someone else who campaign to change the rule.

I feel you are being a little disingenuous here.

There is a big difference, between MPs passing laws as part of the normal business of government, something which the PPP-led coalition-government has done very little of, and MPs making changes to the Constitution itself, without reference to the electorate who are the source of their authority.

I didn't propose referenda every other week, on new laws or changes to old ones, just that major changes to the Constitution itself should be the subject of a referendum. As a democrat ... would that not seem reasonable to you ? The alternative is either rule-by-coup, which is undesirable, or the imposition of a revised Constitution by people who were elected to govern, not to change the Constitution !

There can NEVER ever be a consensual way out in politic, that's what VOTING is for. How do you get 60 millions to agree on the same thing.

(my comments in bold, above)

There is clearly a major rift in thai society. The current government has failed to try to heal the situation, which is getting worse, and is not strong enough to impose its will. They have failed to deliver upon their promises of consultation, and are now suspected of trying to rush through ammendments, which only serve special-interests, before the courts dissolve the main party. This can only lead to further dissent and disruption and, God forbid, more blood on the streets.

You can't have government of the people without their broad consent. What do you do, when an election delivers only a weak coalition-government ? Seeking consensus, and not taking provocative steps to aggravate the rift, might be a start.

[Plus]

so you are saying only thaksin is the problem for the PAD, if the government no longer support him PAD will pack up, and then the government will be free to continue with corruption so long as they dont support thaksin while they do it

In short - yes, but the parts in bold simply don't follow.

I don't think any government will be free to continue with corruption any time soon. Even the current one is shit scared of getting caught in anything improper - they can't implement even one project to finance their new election campaign.

[Bangyai]

If Toxin gets back in power I wouldn't like to be a UK citizen living in LoS and needing a visa, in fact I think I would be assessing my long term future there, especially once the unmentionable and inevitable comes to pass and the big power struggle kicks off.

Better hope he hasn't got one of his employees reading Thai Visa and bribing ISP's for names and addresses !

[Los78]

PAD: No more talks with govt (BangkokPost.com)

The People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) will no longer negotiate with the government because it would be futile, PAD coordinator Suriyasai Katasila said on Tuesday.

Mr Suriyasai said the PAD was open for talks but the government remained insincere by arresting the PAD core members earlier.

He said the PAD’s plan is to stop the government from exercising its power by all means, and supporters of the anti-government group will continue to gather at the acting government House at Don Mueang airport.

When asked whether this would be the PAD’s final battle, Mr Suriyasai said the fight will go on.

The PAD coordinator also asked the police to get in the way of the protesters because they could be upset.

He further accused the government of pulling the strings behind the grenade attacks against the PAD demonstrators.

(Bangkok Post) 24/11/2008

- So the final, final, final battle war will still go on. What? And I thought one of the PAD leaders announced that they will let the tyrants rule after this final one... Hmmm

[Jai Dee]

Rally not disrupt services of Don Muang Airport: deputy director

Wisit Iewprapha, deputy director of the Don Muang Airport, said Tuesday that the protest of the People's Alliance for Democracy did not disrupt domestic flights at the airport.

He said the protesters restricted their demonstration at the temporary Cabinet office so passenger terminals were still in service.

He urged passengers to arrive early for fear of traffic congestions.

Source: The Nation - 25 November 2008

[baht&sold]

Can govt hold on until charter is rewritten?

source: Bangkok Post Nov 25 2008

The government hid its plan to start the process of rewriting the charter under the cover of Asean pact legislation but the plan was exposed. Now it wishes to push for the charter amendment again on Dec 8-9, but will it survive until then?

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) declared victory after foiling the House-Senate meeting at the parliament yesterday. Although the alliance did not totally put paid to the charter-rewriting plan, at least it pushed the session back to Dec 8-9 which is close to the time when the ruling People Power party (PPP) is expected to hear a ruling on its dissolution case, possibly on Dec 15.

Although Parliament Speaker Chai Chidchob earlier claimed the parliament needed a meeting yesterday only to endorse the Asean pact legislation, he did not expect MPs to study the issue thoroughly before voting on it at all.

He scheduled Asean pact legislation as the second issue on yesterday's agenda. Its details had just been sent to MPs on Friday although it was set for voting on yesterday.

Importantly, Mr Chai placed the constitutional amendment bill that Dr Weng Tojirakarn, a pro-government activist, proposed as the first issue of yesterday's parliament agenda.

Mr Chai included the bill, although that seemed to be illegal because Article 291 of the present constitution has not been rewritten to pave the way for any further constitutional amendment.

The importance of the Asean pact legislation yesterday was in doubt as Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and Foreign Minister Sompong Amornvivat were in Peru and thus could not explain the legislation.

Only the permanent secretary of the Foreign Ministry was sent to negotiate with the opposition leader, the House Speaker and the Senate Speaker to lobby for support for the legislation.

Mr Chai himself tried to ask Opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva to convince PAD leaders to allow the parliament to meet and endorse the Asean pact legislation. However, Mr Abhisit said the parliament could not have a meeting unless it showed its sincerity by withdrawing Dr Weng's bill first.

Mr Abhisit also demanded the government take responsibility for the Oct 7 crackdown on demonstrators and revoke the official passport of fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. With these actions, negotiations with the PAD should improve, said Mr Abhisit.

Previously, Chaturon Chaisaeng, former acting leader of Mr Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party, urged the government to rewrite the constitution within this parliament session, which expires on Friday.

This is a clear signal that the PPP needs a changed charter before it faces a dissolution order.

Thousands of PAD demonstrators laid siege to the parliament and Don Mueang airport, which is housing the temporary offices of the government.

In response, the government rescheduled the House-Senate meeting for Dec 8-9.

It apparently wishes to rewrite the constitution within a week of the party dissolution ruling.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/251108_News/25Nov2008_news05.php

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

-Thus it appears the constitution change to void vote-fraud etc was not only on the agenda but the TOP priority in yesterday's non-session. This after PM Somchai's and speaker Chai's 'swearing' constitution change was NOT on the menu. Not to mention the stated priority of issuing Asean legislation appears a mere smoke-screen and a cynical ploy.

Although I don't agree or approve of their non-starter 'appointed' govt concept (nor with many of their tactics) it appears the PAD did achieve an upset yesterday regardless. Or perhaps just a minor set-back as the Govt will undoubtedly push the changes through on Dec 8-9 (they must, to survive).

It should also be noted, Dr Weng whom proposed the bill is a leader of the pro-govt UDD protest group. Thus in effect Thailand has an anti-govt protest group dictating terms outside Parliament and a pro-govt protest group dictating terms (with Govt collusion) inside Parliament.

With what must now be a deafening clock clicking towards the PPP dissolution ruling (possibly Dec 15) and with the desperately needed all exonerating constitution changes now delayed to Dec 8-9 session, Thaksin and the Govt must be getting absolutely frantic... Let's hope this all doesn't translate into more violence as there's much to lose on all sides. Next?

[Jai Dee]

PM Somchai Undaunted by PAD's Welcome Home

PM Somchai Wongsawat is expected to keep his original schedule to return to Thailand tomorrow at noon.

Meanwhile Nutthawut Saikua, PM's Office Ministry's spokesperson, says the Cabinet meeting will be held in the afternoon on Wednesday. It's possible the Cabinet meeting will be moved to the Royal Thai Armed Forces Headquaters from the government's temporary makeshift government seat at Don Muang Airport.

PM Somchai will chair the Cabinet meeting.

Source: Thailand Outlook - 25 November 2008