4 Grenades Explode Near Thailand's Anti-government Tv Station

[jdinasia]

Werbs the court has not said they have no right to be there (Gov't House), but we were in particular talking about your observations at ASTV!

The events outside of Gov't House on Sept 2nd ending in the death of the unfurtunate UDD thug happened when the UDD attacked the PAD.

The events of the 7th of October when 2 were killed and 400+ wounded were started by the police and the responsibility for the deaths has been resolved in a Senate Inquiry.

I am sincerely concerned that you would keep a child in a school near all of this though! If I had schoolage children they certainly would not be in a school in an area that even my embassy (usually clueless) says to avoid!

[sriracha john]

SRJ ---- surely people from Isaan are not coming to join the PAD! Only Thaksin is loved in Isaan!!

Sorry to disappoint them, but there are PAD contingents and offices in Khon Kaen, Korat, Udon Thani, Buriram, Ubon, etc.

Edited November 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[werbs]

Werbs the court has not said they have no right to be there (Gov't House), but we were in particular talking about your observations at ASTV!

The events outside of Gov't House on Sept 2nd ending in the death of the unfurtunate UDD thug happened when the UDD attacked the PAD.

The events of the 7th of October when 2 were killed and 400+ wounded were started by the police and the responsibility for the deaths has been resolved in a Senate Inquiry.

I am sincerely concerned that you would keep a child in a school near all of this though! If I had schoolage children they certainly would not be in a school in an area that even my embassy (usually clueless) says to avoid!

why should the courts have to say they can't be there? they are trespassing and could be arrested for the tresspass except sheer volume of numbers make this difficult. how about i break into your condo and say its politically motivated and put an armed guard on the door, is that ok with you?

as for my daughter, she can not go to school, this is the whole point I am trying to make, she has had to miss so many days this year. and lets be honest she has been going to school there well before the criminals started acting up, we chose the school because its good, it wasnt chosen with the hinsight that we now have that the area would be over run with criminals

as for ASTV, I have seen them armed there and elsewhere in the area

as for your comments about the UDD 'thug', i suppose its ok for the PAD to use thugs for murder and mayhem. this is where your logic falls down, you are suggesting that it was ok for the PAD to murder someone from the UDD because he attacked them (speculation), yet its not ok for the police to defend themselves when they come under attack (as can be seen in the clips above)

Edited November 25, 2008 by werbs

[sriracha john]

even IF they arent PAD, the point is police had every right to disperse this unruly crowd...no matter who they are

but as has been universally condemned and specifically cited by the Senate investigation Committee that they did so without warning... and by not having any semblance of international standards... the results have already been posted, and which Somchai said he would accept responsibility if the committee said they were responsible... which they have said he was... but he, to date, has not done anything in that regard.

and can someone explain to me how you justify that a bit of dirty water (IF its really that dirty) is more harmful than using tear gas on people?

It can easily be that dirty and deadly depending on its source. And it wasn't mentioned to show that it's more harmful than exploding tear gas grenades, just to show that the BMA wouldn't cooperate with releasing it to the police for them to use on people.

Edited November 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[pete1973]

Whatever happened to the driver of that truck? Was he ever shown to be affiliated with the PAd at all?

they traced the owner of the truck, and currently he is on the run. still not caught

plus...do you not see the same truck leaving from amidst the PAD crowd?

by same token...how does one really determine all red shirts are in fact red shirts and not PAD infiltrated?

in terms of the shot...not saying if the shot killed any police, but showing that the PAD crowd is certainly NOT unarmed!

[werbs]

in terms of the shot...not saying if the shot killed any police, but showing that the PAD crowd is certainly NOT unarmed!

nooooooooooooo he just pointed a stick and shouted "BANG BANG"

[sriracha john]

PAD protesters block water truck from entering Supreme Command's head office

Some 1,000 protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy managed to block soldiers from driving a water truck into the Supreme Command's head office at 2:05 pm Tuesday.

The protesters formed lines to prevent the water truck from passing through a gate.

The soldiers who drove the truck tried to negotiate with the protesters, saying they had to comply with the order of their commander, but the protesters refused to allow them to go inside.

The soldiers eventually gave up and left the scene.

- The Nation / 2008-11-25

[Thai at Heart]

On the outset this seems like a very balanced statement only that to be found in the middle is "So it had better resign and set up a special government with every sector participating in the new administration. " I seem to remember this idea being called "New Politics".

Obviously he believe he would be one of the appointed.

Only if he get elected.....The "appointed" ones get in fact elected in their community.

Bringing again and again false informations from which you know (as you were pointed to the correct information several times) that they are wrong does not help the discussion.

I wish him luck in trying to get elected in that case. Hopefully, the system would be able to find space for someone of his talents. Of course, he could simply be appointed head of the various Southern farmers co-operatives that he seems so fond of and get in that way.

If you believe "New Politics" would be beyond being politicised, up to you, but as an option, I doubt it would keep those that want access to the gravy train off the platform.

[jdinasia]

Werbs .. your hyperbole and shifting of tactics every time ... sad

There was an order for the PAD to leave Government House. That order was appealed and there is an injunction against it being enforced until the court decides. So there is at THIS time no legal reason for them not to be there. IMHO they are in effect having a very well organized sit-in.

If you are unfamiliar with the events of Sept 2nd please review them.

Attacked police .. you mean on October 7th? Asked and answered .. the Senate says the police were wrong and that they caved to political pressure.

Weapons? --- apparently I would prefer for my enemies to have a baseball bat in front of ASTV than military ordinance tear-gas launchers!

[sriracha john]

Karma's talking...

PM's plane from Peru delayed: Public Relations Department

The Public Relations Department reported on its website the plane Prime Minister Somchai would fly back from Peru was delayed due to technical errors.

The department said its reporter, Saksit Pradabsilp, reported from Peru that a hydraulic lock of a wheel would not unlock preventing the plane from taking off.

- The Nation / 2008-11-25

[Thai at Heart]

I think you are right, but I also think the government should come in with large fire trucks and hose down all the PAD that are taking over GOVT buildings...

you may have missed the news when govt was questioned why this was not done before going down the route of tear gas.

the police requested water trucks or fire trucks from BMA (BAngkok Metropolitan Administration - headed by the Democrat's Apirak), but request was turned down. Their reason? BMA said the trucks water had to be reserved for watering trees planted around the city

(the fire department is also under BMA)

It was also ruled out when they realized it's grossly contaminated water and unsuited to spray on people.... shooting people with showers of E. Coli can be just as fatal, but just not as quick, as exploding tear gas grenades.

People swim in the klongs every day, so is it to be assumed that the water in fire trucks comes direct from sewers. That probably means that spraying it anywhere in Bangkok at all is extremely dangerous because the water droplets will spray for miles around.

People die from swimming in klongs every day. Even relatively limited contact can have disastrous results. Ask any D2B fan (apologies if I mistyped the band's name).

In case you are unaware, the forceful blast of a direct fire hose with this or other sorted contamination is substantially different then stepping through a puddle of it with your covered foot or even swimming in it.

Absolutely, since it is aerosolized.

[werbs]

Werbs .. your hyperbole and shifting of tactics every time ... sad

There was an order for the PAD to leave Government House. That order was appealed and there is an injunction against it being enforced until the court decides. So there is at THIS time no legal reason for them not to be there. IMHO they are in effect having a very well organized sit-in.

If you are unfamiliar with the events of Sept 2nd please review them.

Attacked police .. you mean on October 7th? Asked and answered .. the Senate says the police were wrong and that they caved to political pressure.

Weapons? --- apparently I would prefer for my enemies to have a baseball bat in front of ASTV than military ordinance tear-gas launchers!

well we will just have to agree to disagree. at no point have i changed my stance,i think you are choosing to read what you want to read.

If you wish to support the criminal masses go ahead, in fact if you are so confident about their peaceful activities and believe in their stance please feel free to don a yellow t shirt and go and join them.

is this something you are likely to do? no, i thought not, all talk and no action

[Jai Dee]

Checkpoints Set up to Prevent Provincial PAD from Bringing Weapons to BKK

The Metropolitan Police Bureau has requested provincial police offices to heighten the examination of anti-government protesters heading to Bangkok, to prevent them from bringing weapons into the city.

Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Bureau, Police Lieutenant General Suchart Mueankaew insisted police officers will try to prevent third parties from sparking chaos at the People's Alliance for Democracy or PAD protest wherever its rally sites will be.

Interior Minister, Police General Kowit Watthana attended a meeting last night at the Metropolitan Police Bureau headquarters to assess the protest situation and discuss security measures in the capital.

Police Lieutenant General Suchart said the bureau needs to update its intelligence information every hour to follow the moves of the PAD, and the police will call for negotiation with demostrators if they block Viphavadee Rangsit Road, as other people will be troubled by the road block.

As for the possible PAD rally at Suvarnabhumi Airport, the commissioner of Provincial 1 Police Office has been assigned to implement security measures in Samutprakarn Province and its governor has been advised to oversee security of public properties.

The City Police hief has also ordered the installation of weapon checkpoints in the area under the supervision of Metropolitan Police Bureau and highway and provincial police agencies are advised to prevent PAD protesters heading to join the massive rally from carrying weapons into the capital.

The Metropolitan Police chief is satisfied with the measures dealing with the anti-government rally as no public property has been damaged. He has advised police officers to exercise restraint.

Meanwhile, Deputy National Police Chief, Police General Jongrak Juthanont has been ordered to investigate the recent bomb attack against the PAD.

Source: Thailand Outlook - 25 November 2008

[Los78]

Werbs I am sure you did not mean to threaten me

So, people guarding ASTV do not have shotguns and military tear gas launchers? But you imply they have weapons like a baseball bat? WOW The guards at my condos have batons and a blackjack they must be PAD!

You are free to go back through the media reports about the Jeep You may as well skip the first reports from the police etc ... and instead focus on the rest. BTW the jeep was obviously not 'loaded with explosives'.

of course its not a threat.

the guards at your condo have a job to do, the guards at government house have no right to be there, they have no right to carry weapons.

now if you think getting killed by a baseball bat is nicer than getting shot and killed then i pity your sensibilities.

the fact is that the PAD are not intersted in peaceful demonstrations and repeated efforts by posters to dispute this makes them look ridiculous

It is useless making the PAD mob worshipers on TV understand this fact as they have become infected with the PAD's ASTV and TOC news propaganda. Any other news which may show the facts differently are not recognised or just looked over and dismissed. Sadly for PAD is that they didnt get to use violence against police this time as the police are well aware its PAD's tactic to incite violence for their cause.

[sriracha john]

Parliament meeting cancelled, Cabinet meeting cancelled, two different Government Headquarters uncontrolled, absentee PM, Cabinet ministers scurrying to and fro...... "but the government is in full control"

Minister of Interior says PAD situation no cause for worry

The Minister of Interior says the national situation is not a cause for concern as police and authorities have full control over protesters.

Minister of Interior Kowit Watana, tasked by the government to oversee police's operations to control the rally by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), stated that the situation is completely under control and should not be a cause for concern. He expressed his confidence that the PAD presence at Don Mueang Airport will be temporary and that they would successively leave the premises, assuring that authorities still retain a grasp over the situation.

The minister said that he was worried about rumors the PAD would move onto the Royal Thai Army Headquarters at 2 PM today, and commended police for exercising patience and restraint despite being attacked by protesters. The minister said that he will not have to wait for the Prime Minister's orders to act in any case as he has been fully entrusted to handle the matter.

- ThaiNews / 2008-11-25

[pete1973]

There was an order for the PAD to leave Government House. That order was appealed and there is an injunction against it being enforced until the court decides. So there is at THIS time no legal reason for them not to be there. IMHO they are in effect having a very well organized sit-in.

by that logic....so if some strangers enter your house, they are entitled to stay there until the court has determined their entry to be illegal and issues an order to evict them?

in the meantime I should be able to camp out in your house or office then?

[sriracha john]

A blast from a fire hose is much worse than protected or unprotected external contact as it rams the contaminated water internally.

I don't follow your aerosolization point. E. Coli and other waterborne bacteria concentrate in the water.

Edited November 25, 2008 by sbk

[jdinasia]

There was an order for the PAD to leave Government House. That order was appealed and there is an injunction against it being enforced until the court decides. So there is at THIS time no legal reason for them not to be there. IMHO they are in effect having a very well organized sit-in.

by that logic....so if some strangers enter your house, they are entitled to stay there until the court has determined their entry to be illegal and issues an order to evict them?

in the meantime I should be able to camp out in your house or office then?

As an act of civil disobedience against the government? Sure! Oh wait I am not the government and my house is not publicly owned property. But you are arguing against the courts decision .... what's up with that?

Feel free to scroll back and see where the police have killed protesters in developed nations .. I posted the words for the google search earlier in this thread.

Edited November 25, 2008 by jdinasia

[Jai Dee]

Anupong: Coup won't solve crisis

National army chief Anupong Paojinda, who chairs the committee for monitoring political developments, said on Tuesday that the army has prepared plans and security forces to handle groups of anti-government protesters occupying different areas.

According to Gen Anupong, security forces from the army, air force, navy and police will be divided into two groups. The first group will watch over the protesting groups in different locations while the second group will prevent groups with different political views from clashing each other.

The army chief said the police will facilitate the motorists, should the demonstrators block the traffic lanes. The police will exercise utmost restraint and try to compromise with the protesters who try to provoke violence, instead of using forceful measures, he affirmed. After meeting with the Permanent Secretary for Defence, the Supreme Commander, and army commanders on Tuesday morning, Gen Anupong said the meeting resolved to stick to three principles, which are protecting the main institution of the country and maintaining social order, preventing clashes that could lead to losses, and adhering to the legal system to work out the national crisis.

More from the Bangkok Post here.

[pete1973]

so what do you propose is best way to disperse the crowd then?

tear gas is not acceptable

now you are arguing that water is also not acceptable?

so what in your opinion would be the civilised way to deal with this unruly crowd?

[Tod]

Yes, they should fill the trucks with only Volvic or Evian water to make sure that all these brave protesters don't get any kind of infection.

[Thai at Heart]

A blast from a fire hose is much worse than protected or unprotected external contact as it rams the contaminated water internally.

I don't follow your aerosolization point. E. Coli and other waterborne bacteria concentrate in the water.

Spray infected water it into the air and it can get into the body in any number of ways and hangs around for much longer than anyone thinks. Not sure how dirty this water was, or half the country should die at Songkran.

[sriracha john]

Checkpoints Set up to Prevent Provincial PAD from Bringing Weapons to BKK

The Metropolitan Police Bureau has requested provincial police offices to heighten the examination of anti-government protesters heading to Bangkok, to prevent them from bringing weapons into the city.

Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Bureau, Police Lieutenant General Suchart Mueankaew insisted police officers

same as Prime Minister Somchai, I take notice that Suchart has done nothing like what he said he would do last month....

Metropolitan Police Chief Police Lieutenant-General Suchart Muankaew

Metropolitan Police Chief Suchart Muankaew said he is ready to accept the result of an investigation on Tuesday's lethal crackdown on anti-government protesters. He said he was the commander of the event that day, and will accept whatever the fact-finding panel says. If it finds that police are wrong, then he said he is willing to take the responsibility.

[sriracha john]

Not sure how dirty this water was

It was dirty enough that the BMA would not cooperate with its release to be used on humans.

[jdinasia]

I think the mods discussed embedding quote after quote after quote in responses ....

[sriracha john]

so what do you propose is best way to disperse the crowd then?

tear gas is not acceptable

now you are arguing that water is also not acceptable?

so what in your opinion would be the civilised way to deal with this unruly crowd?

have the government resign,

By the way, it's not myself arguing the water is unacceptable... it's people in charge that made the decisions, not me. Any public health official world-wide would likely agree completely, also.

Edited November 25, 2008 by sriracha john

[sbk]

I think the mods discussed embedding quote after quote after quote in responses ....

Indeed and I have just had to edit a few more posts.

So, once again PLEASE do not quote a long quoted post, edit the post to remove the extraneous quotes as it very quickly fills up the page and makes for very tedious reading

Thank you.

Further such posts will not be edited but deleted.

[pete1973]

i dont recall French president resigning after this incident

may be France is undemocratic??

[Los78]

Yes, they should fill the trucks with only Volvic or Evian water to make sure that all these brave protesters don't get any kind of infection.

Hahaha , Maybe not Evian however as its a foreign spring water. The firetrucks have to be filtered spring mountain water from Thailand for them not to riot.

[sriracha john]

Parliament meeting cancelled, Cabinet meeting cancelled, two different Government Headquarters uncontrolled, absentee PM, Cabinet ministers scurrying to and fro...... "but the government is in full control"

Minister of Interior says PAD situation no cause for worry

The Minister of Interior says the national situation is not a cause for concern as police and authorities have full control over protesters.

one of the scurrying Cabinet Ministers scurried straight out of the "in full control" government...

Commerce Minister Steps down, No Reason Given

Commerce Minister Chaiya Sasomsab has tended his resignation as the People Power Party's MP.

Thai news agency, INN, reports that Chaiya has tended in his resignation which was effective since November 24, 2008.

- TOC / 2008-11-25