4 Grenades Explode Near Thailand's Anti-government Tv Station

[catmac]

Parliament meeting cancelled, Cabinet meeting cancelled, two different Government Headquarters uncontrolled, absentee PM, Cabinet ministers scurrying to and fro...... "but the government is in full control"

Minister of Interior says PAD situation no cause for worry

The Minister of Interior says the national situation is not a cause for concern as police and authorities have full control over protesters.

Minister of Interior Kowit Watana, tasked by the government to oversee police's operations to control the rally by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), stated that the situation is completely under control and should not be a cause for concern. He expressed his confidence that the PAD presence at Don Mueang Airport will be temporary and that they would successively leave the premises, assuring that authorities still retain a grasp over the situation.

The minister said that he was worried about rumors the PAD would move onto the Royal Thai Army Headquarters at 2 PM today, and commended police for exercising patience and restraint despite being attacked by protesters. The minister said that he will not have to wait for the Prime Minister's orders to act in any case as he has been fully entrusted to handle the matter.

- ThaiNews / 2008-11-25

The Government have actually played this week's PAD farce with great success. With their public support dwindling away, and with their only political allies, the Democrats, starting to distance themselves away from mob rule, PAD's only hope was to provoke serious bloody violence on the streets yet again, and then pray to their God that the Army would move against the Government. A replay of 2006. But it just ain't happening like that, is it?

I have little respect for this usually inept and incompetent Government, but their handling of the mob this week has been quite masterful. Who cares if a meeting or two has to be postponed? Hopefully, they've pricked the PAD bubble once and for all. The sight of the PAD sheep running from one false location to the next will soon turn them into a laughing stock, and nothing more than a bl**dy nuisance to people trying to get on with their own lives.

It will also be a relief not to have obtain clearance from PAD (or their education spokesman, jdinasia ) before choosing a school for one's children!

[jdinasia]

so what do you propose is best way to disperse the crowd then?

tear gas is not acceptable

now you are arguing that water is also not acceptable?

so what in your opinion would be the civilised way to deal with this unruly crowd?

WOW!

Tear-gas is acceptable ... military ordinance is not. Tear-gas is acceptable when warning is given and pursuant to a lawful order to disperse. Tear-gas is acceptable when used appropriately and not fired directly at people. Tear-gas is acceptable when used properly in a way leading to a probability that a crowd will disperse.

That means you don't take outdated military ordinance from China that contains RDX (a high explosive) .. and surround a crowd so they cannot escape .... and fire it straight into a crowd instead of in a parabolic arc ... and when you see the first rounds explode continue firing and firing and firing.

Watercannon are less acceptable imho ... UNLESS you are using it to disperse crowds that are carrying indendiary devices etc. Watercannon are powerful enough to push water through the skin. Knock people onto the ground and move them many meters etc...

But Petey ---- let us put the ball in your court. What is acceptable in crowd dispersal when the crowd is practicing civil disobedience and contains the very old as well as small children? If the crowd isn't trying to hurt or kill people .... if they are a political movement ... if they are of no immediate threat to life? Some reactionaries in this thread thing, send in the troops, they deserve to die for standing up to Thaksin's proxy government etc!

[sriracha john]

i dont recall French president resigning after this incident

may be France is undemocratic??

sorry, if i don't bother with viewing it as perhaps this is better suited for francevisa.com/forum

but did ever first proclaim to take full responsibility for something, then once it occurred, he didn't? If so, I'd say he was wrong, same as Somchai.

[Tod]

Yes, they should fill the trucks with only Volvic or Evian water to make sure that all these brave protesters don't get any kind of infection.

Hahaha , Maybe not Evian however as its a foreign spring water. The firetrucks have to be filtered spring mountain water from Thailand for them not to riot.

Mmhhh... I'm not sure the purity and general quality of Thai mineral water is high enough for these "gens de qualite" and so well educated PAD protesters to be hosed with.

It would have to be discussed and debated among the highest ranks of Thai parliamentaries before...

[sriracha john]

Parliament meeting cancelled, Cabinet meeting cancelled, two different Government Headquarters uncontrolled, absentee PM, Cabinet ministers scurrying to and fro...... "but the government is in full control"

The Minister of Interior says the national situation is not a cause for concern as police and authorities have full control over protesters.

Commerce Minister Steps down, No Reason Given

Government, but their handling of the mob this week has been quite masterful.

[PeaceBlondie]

On the subject of getting thousands of loyal citizens to protest against a powerful enemy nonviolently...

I am an absolute pacifist, like the Amish. Less than one percent of the people in the world are totally nonviolent. When Gandhi and King mobilized countless thousands to protest nonviolently (based on the teachings of Jesus), they had to train their demonstrators not to defend themselves. I have conducted such training at a very small level, and it goes against the grain of what adults have been brainwashed into believing and doing. Even some loyal protesters may secretly carry weapons. Then you have enemy agents provoking the crowd to fight back. Could you yourself do it? Probably not. Purist nonviolent direct action gets really difficult when you are being attacked, although it has worked, time and time again (but not in Myanmar recently). If you are demanding absolute pacifism to be practiced in Bangkok by Thai Buddhists, you are insane. The miracle is that so many of them are nonviolent, so far.

But if you do not allow nonviolent protest to work imperfectly, you invite civil war on a scale unknown in Thai history. Not wise.

Pray for peace. Work for peace. Let them make peace without war.

[jdinasia]

i dont recall French president resigning after this incident

may be France is undemocratic??

How many died?

[catmac]

But Petey ---- let us put the ball in your court. What is acceptable in crowd dispersal when the crowd is practicing civil disobedience and contains the very old as well as small children? If the crowd isn't trying to hurt or kill people .... if they are a political movement ... if they are of no immediate threat to life?

Do I detect someone floating off into ASTV's fantasy land holding their rose-tinted specs firmly in place?

I thought we were talking about PAD!

[Tod]

Watercannon are less acceptable imho ... UNLESS you are using it to disperse crowds that are carrying indendiary devices etc. Watercannon are powerful enough to push water through the skin. Knock people onto the ground and move them many meters etc...

Seriously jdinasia you are getting more and more pathetic post after post, european countries such as France, Switzerland, Germany and probably many more use watercannons to disperse illegal mobs that A LOT less violent, invasive and abusive than the one from PAD...

I got hosed by a water canon at a G8 summit and didnt died nor complained.

[frodo]

There was an order for the PAD to leave Government House. That order was appealed and there is an injunction against it being enforced until the court decides. So there is at THIS time no legal reason for them not to be there. IMHO they are in effect having a very well organized sit-in.

by that logic....so if some strangers enter your house, they are entitled to stay there until the court has determined their entry to be illegal and issues an order to evict them?

in the meantime I should be able to camp out in your house or office then?

In Thailand this is logical. Think back when the tsunami struck years back, many people lost their land rights to a senior TRT government politician who was a major shareholder of a Far East Trading and Construction, which builds golf courses and luxury hotels. Did he really have a right to claim that land? Did this elected government official who represents the people have the right to hire thugs armed with weapons to attack those who wanted their land, property, and homes back? It happened. No, I'm not hijacking the thread, only making a real comparison to events.

At least in this case, the courts have not ruled about PAD, therefore, they have a right to be there.

I guess you can say it's "enthaitlement."

[BlueScouse]

SRJ ---- surely people from Isaan are not coming to join the PAD! Only Thaksin is loved in Isaan!!

Sorry to disappoint them, but there are PAD contingents and offices in Khon Kaen, Korat, Udon Thani, Buriram, Ubon, etc.

Hi SRJ,

I am in Ubon,can you please send me the address/phone number of PAD here,my wife would like to get involved.

Can send me a PM if you don't want it posted.

Cheers,

Blue Scouse.

[pete1973]

i do agree with a lot of PAD supporters that SOmchai Govt is Proxy Govt,But Proxy of "MAJORIty" of Thai people. They all have been elected by the ppl,not appointed by Thaksin

what is Somchai resign?? new election and again if "OBamark" doesn't win enough seats,again u guys would go crying on the street?

[werbs]

It will also be a relief not to have obtain clearance from PAD (or their education spokesman, jdinasia ) before choosing a school for one's children!

Brilliant

[werbs]

SRJ ---- surely people from Isaan are not coming to join the PAD! Only Thaksin is loved in Isaan!!

Sorry to disappoint them, but there are PAD contingents and offices in Khon Kaen, Korat, Udon Thani, Buriram, Ubon, etc.

Hi SRJ,

I am in Ubon,can you please send me the address/phone number of PAD here,my wife would like to get involved.

Can send me a PM if you don't want it posted.

Cheers,

Blue Scouse.

ah a fellow scouser (albeit with a strange choice of football team) with some masterful sarcasm

[jdinasia]

Watercannon are less acceptable imho ... UNLESS you are using it to disperse crowds that are carrying indendiary devices etc. Watercannon are powerful enough to push water through the skin. Knock people onto the ground and move them many meters etc...

Seriously jdinasia you are getting more and more pathetic post after post, european countries such as France, Switzerland, Germany and probably many more use watercannons to disperse illegal mobs that A LOT less violent, invasive and abusive than the one from PAD...

I got hosed by a water canon at a G8 summit and didnt died nor complained.

You were partaking in civil disobedience ... which G8 summit was it. to say "didn't died (sic) nor complained" is disingenuous

[endure]

That's enough bickering for today, gents. Short (or even medium length) vacations are available for those who confuse personal insults with proper debate.

[jdinasia]

Hmmmmm over and over with the personal attacks .... but Tod didn't answer.

I am sure the makeup of crowds being dispersed make a HUGE difference in what is used to disperse them!

Edited November 25, 2008 by jdinasia

[Los78]

Protesters disperse from Supreme Command

Protesters blocking the entrance of the Supreme Command head office dispersed Tuesday afternoon and headed to the Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

Their leaders announced at 4:30 pm that the rally at the Supreme Command would disperse and the protesters would head to the airport instead.

The Nation 24/11/2008

Edited November 25, 2008 by sbk
no personal commentary with news reports please--sbk

[animatic]

Parliament meeting cancelled, Cabinet meeting cancelled, two different Government Headquarters uncontrolled, absentee PM, Cabinet ministers scurrying to and fro...... "but the government is in full control"

Minister of Interior says PAD situation no cause for worry

The Minister of Interior says the national situation is not a cause for concern as police and authorities have full control over protesters.

one of the scurrying Cabinet Ministers scurried straight out of the "in full control" government...

Commerce Minister Steps down, No Reason Given

Commerce Minister Chaiya Sasomsab has tended his resignation as the People Power Party's MP.

Thai news agency, INN, reports that Chaiya has tended in his resignation which was effective since November 24, 2008.

- TOC / 2008-11-25

He was powerplayed out by Olarn for conspiracy to jigger the rice pledging,

for he buddies form an previously banned company.

Even for TRT /PPP thjis was WAY over the top un your face corruption,

and so blatant and against the upcountry farmer power base of PPP that it couldn't fly.

GOOD riddance to this putz.

This was happening when Somchai said there is no conflict in his cabinet. HA!

See no evil, speak no evil,

do as much bloody evil as you can get away with...

Chaiya over-reached.

Edited November 25, 2008 by animatic

[werbs]

Protesters disperse from Supreme Command

Protesters blocking the entrance of the Supreme Command head office dispersed Tuesday afternoon and headed to the Suvarnabhumi International Airport.

Their leaders announced at 4:30 pm that the rally at the Supreme Command would disperse and the protesters would head to the airport instead.

The Nation 24/11/2008

oh great I have a flight booked for 7.10am tomorrow, ah well i am sure there won't be many left at swampy by that time

[h90]

i suppose all PAD guards I personally saw outside ASTV all carrying weapons of one sort or another were outsiders who infiltrated ASTV

I think some of you guys need to make an effort to actually go and see these criminals in action rather thatn just read reports. i have been to see it with my own eyes, I also see it when collecting daughter from school who is unfortunate enough to attend school near the criminals camp. I have lost count of the numebr of days schooling she has had to miss this year because the school is closed because the criminals decide on another futile demonstration.

If anyone would like me to take them to the PAD strongholds and point out the criminals weilding arms then please PM me and i will meet you there and show you, hey I will even show you the jeep that was carrying explosives and blew up (lets remember the family of the victim here admitted he was ex police who had been a supporter of PAD for 2 years and was knowingly carrying explosives)

Thank you for your eye witness account. I am sorry that your daughter has missed a lot of school because of the PAD mob. People forget that PAD has its fair share of paid ex-military and ex-police which are on the Sondhi payroll and its these people that primary culprits in damage to property and attacks against police when they go on their so called peaceful marches not to mention the bombs they have been caught with. In pictures yesterday I saw at least 50 heavily armed black PAD at the front of the demonstration line to parliament all carrying various weopons and ready to use them. I am sure there are pictures of them posted out there as with previous marches I saw mainy pictures of PAD violence and damage of property.

What is heavily armed? Guns? Or gulf clubs?

A fair share of the military does not need to be paid to support PAD. They have a lot supporters there....

Well I hope they are not carying guns but I suspect some are armed with guns. I think you didnt read my post correctly. Dont try to change my words. I never said fair share of military. PAD guards are paid Ex-Military. Why would the military be walking with PAD on their marches? Total Nonsense... And in terms of numbers PAD dont have much supporters out there only about 10,000 from today. People are tired of them and even the Democrats are hinting its time to stop their antics.

yes we all know they have gulf clubs and other heavy weapons. that about 10.000 is as well just a dream from you. Yesterday there were for sure 10 times more, I would be surprised if they went all home.

[jdinasia]

Point of order ----

The personal security for the PAD leaders are the only people we know that are 'paid ex-military and ex-police'.

[Tod]

Watercannon are less acceptable imho ... UNLESS you are using it to disperse crowds that are carrying indendiary devices etc. Watercannon are powerful enough to push water through the skin. Knock people onto the ground and move them many meters etc...

Seriously jdinasia you are getting more and more pathetic post after post, european countries such as France, Switzerland, Germany and probably many more use watercannons to disperse illegal mobs that A LOT less violent, invasive and abusive than the one from PAD...

I got hosed by a water canon at a G8 summit and didnt died nor complained.

You were partaking in civil disobedience ... which G8 summit was it. to say "didn't died (sic) nor complained" is disingenuous

As another poster said to you before, you really read things in the way that suits you.

Sorry if I was was not clear, English is not my first language that's why I usually don't post to much on these little TV political debates.

What I meant was that when you are part of an illegal demonstration (like the G8 one I was refering to, or the PAD one) you have to expect to get hosed by water canons, tear gassed, arrested and so on by the police.That's their job.

In the case of the PAD I think they are just a bunch of provocative thugs, and that the police has been way to soft with them, letting them doing whatever they want with complete imputy is a big mistake...

[jdinasia]

If you are in a country where they use watercannon against people partaking in civil disobedience than I would agree with you. I am unaware of that being used against civilians here though. The actions against the G8 summits more resemble riots quite often. Which g8 summit was it so we can look and see if you are comparing apples to oranges or not? (That a person that would protest against the G8 would apparently support this government strikes me as very odd!)

BTW I didn't READ anything in your post that was not written there did I?

Edited November 25, 2008 by jdinasia

[animatic]

i dont recall French president resigning after this incident

may be France is undemocratic??

If you ever were in one of those French banleau riots you would understand why the CRS takes such a heavy hand.

I HAVE been caught up in one. The police rescued me and my wife.... Using batons and shields.

Bad luck we just were in the wrong place. They also rescued our car as it was about to be torched.

These go on for days, the 'suburban' kids are using MUCH more extreme violence

with NO pretense of trying to stay peaceful. 60-100 cars burned a night etc.

Paris suburbs are NOT nice places to do more than pass through.

So I find the batons swinging in proportion, or under proportion to the bricks, rocks and clubs,

and Molotov cocktails thrown at the police. Not to say the CRS is a bunch of nice guys either,

been hassled by a couple for little reason too. Tough bastards for sure.

But their crowd control is just that 'controlling'

and not mindlessly violent viscousness like what I have seen from Oct 7th.

And France DOES actively go after it's corrupt politicians and take them down.

So sorry your argument doesn't hold klong water.

Oh yes,

and the Interior Minsiter of the time of these 2006 riots,

was Nicholas Sarkosy, the newly elected President of France.

Partly because of how he handled these riots.

A firm hand, but not over the top and into vindictiveness, as seen here.

He also prosecuted 2-3 cops for brutality at the same time.

Edited November 25, 2008 by animatic

[animatic]

If you are in a country where they use watercannon against people partaking in civil disobedience than I would agree with you. I am unaware of that being used against civilians here though. The actions against the G8 summits more resemble riots quite often. Which g8 summit was it so we can look and see if you are comparing apples to oranges or not? (That a person that would protest against the G8 would apparently support this government strikes me as very odd!)

Yes the French occasionally use water cannons.

BUT always with 'Potable Water', not street cleaning water.

Because they want to stop the riots, but not cause

long term health conditions, or blindness for the rioters.

The Paris street cleaning water is MUCH better than Klong water here.

This is some of the deadliest I have even come across. Inhaled in aerosoled form

or blasted under eyelids it is deadly and blinding.. BMA good call in refusing this.

If they went and used drinking supply water then fair play.

[Tod]

If you are in a country where they use watercannon against people partaking in civil disobedience than I would agree with you. I am unaware of that being used against civilians here though. The actions against the G8 summits more resemble riots quite often. Which g8 summit was it so we can look and see if you are comparing apples to oranges or not? (That a person that would protest against the G8 would apparently support this government strikes me as very odd!)

The G8 summit of Evian a few years back, but the demonstrations took place in Geneva.

It was way more soft than what PAD are doing right now

"That a person that would protest against the G8 would apparently support this government strikes me as very odd!"

I dont especially support this government but I think a few elitists, backed by a bunch of middle class reactionaries and a few other retards who don't even know what they are fighting against, who won't accept defeat in a democratic election and create a complete mess in a all country for month are way worst.

[Splatter]

Werbs,

I think it is admirable that you have gone to the scenes of demonstrations

and looked at the events for yourself.

Posters who do zip diddly but review internet forums / newspaper reports /

pub discussions don't do it for me either.

Nothing beats primary research.

For example, the BCCT have held some fascinating luncheons

where guest speakers who are close to the situation

have given very insightful and informed speeches.

There is another one at the FCCT this Wednesday at 11.40am

400THB and a buffet is thrown in.

Like you

I do not dispute for one moment that having banners

at a protest site stating

"No Violence" / "Peaceful Demonstration" / etc

while blokes hang around with

golf clubs / sticks / slingshots

wear masks.... it is just not British

It leaves the PAD wide open for criticism.

Many of the guards strike me as dangerous little boys playing at big men.

At the Makkhawan Bridge incident some months ago

(I saw as I was there)

the police INITIALLY use credible tactics of pushing

the crowd back from the bridge using riot shields

to open up a public highway.

They even correctly sent out snatch squads to pick up

ring leaders who were waving weapons

and stirring up the crowd.

Unfortunately, their training seemed poor

and some police officers became isolated

..and the more aggressive demonstraters kicked hel_l

out of the stranded officers.

The main police body retreated and gave up the bridge.

They didn't try and reform to retake the area.

This didn't seem credible to me considering the low numbers of trouble makers

they were up against.

Perhaps they didn't have the confidence in their senior officers, their training,

their equipment... I just don't know.

What I do know is that this sort of policing would not have happened

in the UK.

On October 7th from 3pm until around 5.30pm (NOT THE MORNING)

I stood on U Thong Nai and then later at the side entrance of the Dusit Zoo.

There were the usual mix of demonstrators that you would see

at any large scale event; Grunwicks, Greenham, Nottinghamshire pits...

... the aggressive who are up for a scrap

... those who want to protest peacefully

... and those there to observe.

The Bangkok riot police to our rear

opened up creating an escape route

for those who knew how to get to it before the problems started,

and for those had previously checked the layout of the roads

and escape routes beforehand.

Some demonstraters had rolled paddy wagons onto their sides,

some shoved one through the side gate of Parliament House.

From the bottom of Ratchaweti the sound of tear gas exploding could be heard.

Our section heard no warning,

nor were other measures used to try to disperse the crowds...

but the sound of cannisters going off in the distance gave us ample time to withdraw.

Most of the crowd at the back moved away from the U Thong Nai intersection

as the sound of cannisters going off became louder.

Many moved back as far as the ambulances parked

outside the side entrance of the zoo.

Some demonstraters with golf clubs, sling shots and clubs

continued to run down to the area where advancing riot police

were firing tear gas at the crowds.

However, a more significant number of demonstraters at the front,

(those who I would call "naive"

and "demonstration inexperienced" - but most definitely non violent)

could not find an escape route

even though they were trying to run away.

With tear gas cannisters landing IN them and BEHIND them

many panicked, cowered on the sidewalks

and were affected by the gas.

The police continued firing the gas and came up to the U Thong Nai intersection.

They had cleared the street behind them

and the intersections up to the intersection at Thanon Phichai (??)

However, as most of them were not wearing gas masks

they were also affected by the gas still in the air.

You will know that once you have taken a scene

you would control it and contain / marshall others away from entering it.

This did not happen / could not happen as they were not wearing gas masks.

The unit of tear gas firing police fired more cannisters up Ratchaweti

- some gas reached as far as the EMS units, parked bythe Dusit Zoo entrance.

In my opinion there was no need to have continued firing this far up the street.

The crowd here were already back away from the Parliament Building

and making no moves to re enter the area.

A police cordon across the intersection would have secured the area taken.

The tear gas unit then swept around the front of the Parliament Building.

The roads by this time were clear.

I then could not understand where the police went.

In a few minutes there were no units in the area.

With no follow up from other units to secure the area behind them,

the hard core (less than a hundred) of the crowd drifted back into the area.

As the scene appeared quiet for a longer period of time the peaceful observers

also drifted back into the area,

and those wanting to reunite with those on the Royal Plaza side of the building

walked through the area.

With no warning the tear gas came in again and the riot police reappeared from Ratchaweti.

The cleared the area,

buggered off

didn't secure it

and with no surprises

they had to do it once more

As it was getting near nightfall I came home.

SORRY for the long post... BUT

YES. Some of the PAD were armed with clubs and sling shots etc and were inflaming the situation

on October 7th.

But I saw no attempts to arrest any of them

I don't even know if the police made any arrests that day.

But I also saw no effective crowd control procedures by the police.

I did see a great many naive demonstraters not realising that

it was not going to be a peaceful day out.

I didn't see the police trying to secure an area and contain a potential problem escalating.

I have also seen UDD / DAAD protesters on Sanam Luang rallies

with similar golf clubs, bats, bars and sling shots.

I've seen the bomb craters on Ratchadamnoen.

Much of it is here... http://www.flickr.com/photos/11401580@N03/...57607072368209/

Yes, I would meet up with you at Government House

(any time before nightfall) for a chat.

Let's bring the whole armchair Thai Visa forum.

BUT IT DOUBT IT WOULD ACHIEVE MUCH.

What I see developing is an even more huge cock up.

These demos aren't like the UK

exisiting in a context

where the government governs and the police police.

We have groups taking matters into their own hands

and almost seemingly left to get on with it

until it gets completely uncontainable.

The PAD guards being armed, the UDD being armed

is a result of years of incompetence.

[permanent_disorder]

Watercannon are less acceptable imho ... UNLESS you are using it to disperse crowds that are carrying indendiary devices etc. Watercannon are powerful enough to push water through the skin. Knock people onto the ground and move them many meters etc...

But Petey ---- let us put the ball in your court. What is acceptable in crowd dispersal when the crowd is practicing civil disobedience and contains the very old as well as small children? If the crowd isn't trying to hurt or kill people .... if they are a political movement ... if they are of no immediate threat to life? Some reactionaries in this thread thing, send in the troops, they deserve to die for standing up to Thaksin's proxy government etc!

so what is acceptable if the mob shows up in this fashion?

caption:Anti-government demonstrators lock arms as they prepare to march on Thailand's Parliament Monday, Nov. 24, 2008, in Bangkok. The group, which calls itself the People's Alliance for Democracy, is calling on the end of the current government which they claim is a puppet administration of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. (AP Photo/David Longstreath)

caption: Thai anti-governmet protesters sit after blocking a road leading to parliament during a mass rally in Bangkok, Thailand Monday, Nov. 24, 2008. Thousands of anti-government protesters surrounded Thailand's Parliament on Monday, forcing legislators to postpone a joint session, while more demonstrators rallied at other government offices in an action billed as their final bid to oust the administration. (AP Photo/Apichart Weerawong)

there are also a lot of pictures around from moments whem these "peaceful" demonstrators use their sticks to club people to death.

Edited November 25, 2008 by permanent_disorder

[jdinasia]

If you are in a country where they use watercannon against people partaking in civil disobedience than I would agree with you. I am unaware of that being used against civilians here though. The actions against the G8 summits more resemble riots quite often. Which g8 summit was it so we can look and see if you are comparing apples to oranges or not? (That a person that would protest against the G8 would apparently support this government strikes me as very odd!)

The G8 summit of Evian a few years back, but the demonstrations took place in Geneva.

It was way more soft than what PAD are doing right now

"That a person that would protest against the G8 would apparently support this government strikes me as very odd!"

I dont especially support this government but I think a few elitists, backed by a bunch of middle class reactionaries and a few other retards who don't even know what they are fighting against, who won't accept defeat in a democratic election and create a complete mess in a all country for month are way worst.

Hmmm I read the reports on the riots in Geneva

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0603-08.htm

and at several other sources .. and learned that the police used tear-gas AND watercannons. They were never used against the large group just small groups of 500 or so at a time. This may seem offtopic but it shows that perhaps watercannon are not a great option when used to attack protesters in large numbers!