Retirement Visa - Possible To Change Type Later?

[Steve2UK]

Hi All,

I've been reading the forum for over a week now - and searched on a few subjects to piece together the info I'm looking for..... but still need to ask some questions. Please don't flame me if what I ask has been covered before and I've missed it - I think a lot of people are in my situation so the answers will be useful to many more than just me.

I'm 54 and a UK citizen. I plan to move to Thailand (probably Chiang Mai) for permanent settlement. I have sufficient funds that maintaining the 800,000 Baht bank deposit when necessary (e.g. for annual visa renewal) is not an issue for me for the foreseeable future - neither is the 65,000 Baht per month alternative, come to that (I don't have a pension, but I would be able to maintain a flow of funds from private capital - as well as some accumulated profits that are in a UK company which I own 100%). That appears to make me a straightforward candidate for the Retirement Visa route (type O-A, I believe?).

One other point of introduction about myself and my view on things. I'm not really into living dangerously now (if I ever was) nor do I want to out and out abuse the Thai system - for which I have a good deal of respect (sure - I KNOW it's far from perfect........ whose is?). Without wanting to sound holier-than-thou and given that I also expect to apply for residence some years down the line when I'm qualified for it, I want to do the right thing that a] enables me to live without fear of being bounced out of the country and b] keeps my record clean for the future.

Like (I think) many people of my age, I'm not 100% sure that I'm quite ready to do absolutely nothing but laze around etc - so I foresee that I MIGHT want to occupy myself with something after a while. So here are the questions:

1) I have a background as a writer (as well as film/video producer/director) and I may well want to write that novel that's inside most of us. I know that the strict letter of Thai law absolutely prohibits what they can interpret as "work" under a retirement visa (whether paid or unpaid) - but I also know from previous experience of Thailand (and from reading posts on here) that it's usually a matter of how discreet how you are; basically, if you take the p*ss - you're asking for trouble and you'll probably get it. So the question is - would I be asking for trouble if all I wanted to do was my "private" writing or maybe some (possibly pseudonymous) articles etc? Come to that - how would it stand if I found myself being asked to give some help to a Thai with his/her writing, or a Thai business with their marketing (e.g. business English) etc ?

2) If I found that this almost "hobby" activity was growing to the extent that it was starting to look more conspicuously like work, would I find it a problem to switch to a different kind of visa that would make a work permit possible? If this happened, I'm thinking more in terms of what we regard in the West as self-employed/freelance - but that doesn't seem to exist as such under Thai rules (am I right?)........

3) In which case, I might find myself wanting/needing to form a limited company (2 million Baht registered capital etc) which I understand would automatically (?) entitle me to a work permit for myself - and enable me to do pretty much any kind of work/service/activity that is not prohibited for foreigners. Again, would this present a problem if I had first entered under a retirement visa scheme?

Connected with the reasons for thinking about 3) [limited company] is also the point that I might well want to buy a house after a period of renting - therefore it would need to be in the company's name, of course.

I stress that all of what I'm describing as possible scenarios are NOT "read between the lines" plans. It's just me trying to establish what the options are - IF I found myself wanting to do more than I currently envisage. I just don't want to drop myself into a future blind alley because I took the wrong first step by going for the (seemingly easy) retirement visa route at the beginning.

Thanks in advance for any input on these questions.

Edited December 13, 2004 by Steve2UK

[paulfr]

Well the company formation will clear you of any concern.

But if all you are doing is writing in your apartment and sending the drafts back to the UK, I doubt anyone will care or know. Just don't tell anyone ...... anyone !! ..... what you do, and it should be ok.

If you need to move to an office to work, now you have a problem.

Company formation recommended. Although it is a pain, Sunbelt and Indio-xxx (forgot full name) can help take care of all the paperwork for you.

You will love Thailand.

BTW, send = emailing, not mailing big packages regularly from the Post Office or via DHL. Then they ask questions and you do not want to be tempted to lie.

Edited December 13, 2004 by paulfr

[lopburi3]

There should be no problem changing your mind (visa type) but it could (not likely) be used to end your 3 year stay under continuous extensions to qualify for PR. But PR is not that common on a retirement extension in any case AFAIK. Not sure if anyone has reported getting with just this type of background.

Your item 1 starts fine but last part could get you in serious trouble. If you start working for firms in Thailand you had better have a work permit.

[Steve2UK]

Thanks to both Paulfr and Lopburi3 for the responses......

From what you say (and from what I continue to read elsewhere), it seems that starting off with the retirement visa won't in any way prove to be an obstacle if I later decided to change my status after a period of happy retirement - whether it's to then go the Non-Imm B (+ work permit) route or set up my own company. Is that correct?

Lopburi3 - are you saying that the clock (for 3 year qualification to apply for PR) is re-started if your status changes? (BTW, I do take your point that PR doesn't seem to provide/avoid much more than I would already get through annual renewing of my visa.)

For my situation (as best as I can foresee it), my take is that if I found Thai businesses beating on my door asking for my help - that's when I would have the choice: a] form a company and provide my legitimate services through it or b] invite the Thai business to apply for a work permit for me. Presumably, the company route would give me more flexibility in terms of working (legally!) for various clients? And it opens the way to looking later at land/house ownership through the company......... as I mentioned in my first post.

Or c] - say "NO". I appreciate from what you are both saying that there just can't be a safe halfway house between retirement status and some form of company/work permit status.

Paulfr - yes, you're quite right........ I don't want to be tempted to lie. Not necessarily a moral judgement that makes me agree with you - just a well-developed sense of self-preservation!

Thanks again. Anyone else have something to add???? Particularly - am I right in thinking that the only realistic route to providing self-employed/freelance types of services is through my own Thai-registered company?

[lopburi3]

Starting visa would not be a problem. Correct.

There could be a forced end of stay on extension and requirement to obtain a new non immigrant visa outside Thailand - this would break the 3 year continuous stay - but recently they have been rather good at converting visa class rather than requiring an exit and return with a new visa.

[Steve2UK]

Thanks again, lopburi3 - you've explained that aspect very clearly.