State Of Emergency Declared

[bubba]

Check out the live feed of the concert stage from Suvarnabhumi now:

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/ (PAD's English language media outlet)

There are really not many people there at all now, and the camera only shows crowd views from the floor where is it difficult to see how many people are there. I'm not seeing those shots from the stage that ran yesterday from the stage that showed thousands of people.

It's hard to say, but maybe down to a couple of hundred people? Maybe they are thinning out and leaving in anticipation of something happening?

[bassmaster50]

Why should PM resign and give in to a bunch of thugs? If he does, every time there is a PM that someone doesn't like they will take over the airport until they get what they want. What would have happened by now if the PAD or whoever took over the airport in Singapore. Or JFK or Heathrow or anywhere but here? The PAD has practically destroyed this country and even some of them are starting to realize it. There is only one way to deal with this situation and people will probably get hurt. But it won't be the PAD leaders, only the poor ignorant half-wits they got to do their dirty work.

[Plus]

Apparently the "war room" is staffed only with Play Station and Wii consoles for now.

The police might be working on a strategy to force PAD out, getting supplies in place etc, but the longer it goes on, the more pressure will be on Somchai - if he can't do anything, time to resign.

>>>

There's an interesting reminder in Nation's letters today:

In a democracy the government rules with the consent of the governed.

[bubba]

This just in:

Somchai moves government to Chiang Mai

Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat will remain in the northern city of Chiang Mai "indefinitely" because of tensions with the military, a government spokesman said.

Somchai was forced to land in Chiang Mai from a trip abroad on Wednesday after anti-government protesters seized control of Bangkok's two airports.

He declared a state of emergency at the airports on Thursday night as rumours of a possible military coup swept the capital, although the army said it was not intervening.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=132353

"As there are still uncertainties in the tensions between the government and army, for his safety the prime minister will stay in Chiang Mai," government spokesman Suparat Nakbunnam said.

"He has no schedule to return to Bangkok, he will stay in Chiang Mai indefinitely for his security," Suparat said.

Cabinet ministers flew to Chiang Mai for an urgent meeting on Thursday, effectively setting up a government in exile from the capital, which remains cut off by air from the rest of the world. (AFP)

[ding]

This needs to end now. It is clear that the PAD will not leave, so the police must force them out immediately. Preferably without, but if needed, with force. It is simply no longer acceptable. There are tens of thousands of tourists who must go home to their job. If they can't return, they will possibly lose their jobs. Children can't go to school. Medical patients can't fly to get treatment.

This IS terrorism and the government/police/army need to act now.

LOL

You must watch a lot of American TV news!

This is NOT terrorism. It's civil disobedience. It is not from foreign actors but Thai citizens openly trying to oust a government which seems to be illegitimate. Let's not bring American hysteria to Thailand with us, alright?

It's too far and needs to be brought back, nuf said.

[quiksilva]

Yes Sally agreed, I was thinking along the same lines, I don't see the government losing out here at all, with that phone call PAD have sealed their fate and effectively shot themselves in the foot. In Thailand some lines can't be crossed.

I can almost see one side giving the government the nod to move forward.

Result being that the government regain control (but perhaps with conditions attached) and recover a modicum of respect from the international community for bringing the situation under control and sends a clear message to any other group that might try this again in the future.

The question remains though whether the police/navy/airforce can actually complete that mission, professionally, with minimal violence.

Edited November 28, 2008 by quiksilva

[bassmaster50]

I sent email to my old co-workers in NY and they find it hard to believe that some people on this forum are so clueless.

2 things here... a) no you didn't and iii) Utica-Rome doesn't count

2 things here. Yes I did and who said anything about Utica-Rome?

[hammered]

I agree this would logically follow, so long as my supposition on the identity of the senior person is correct, which as OMR points out we will never truly know, but in this light it does seem likely because it provides a very neat solution for that group.

I think it would be optimistic to see a neat solution involving the sacrifice of the PAD AND the govt., with the army and whoever coming out on top. I think it has gone past that stage. My supposition is that now there has to be negotiations between army et al and govt. to find a workable solution for both to come out on top.

Final result is PAD are still sacrificed. There is too much at stake for either govt or army to lose but they can have a common purpose if they are decimating the PAD and there is a solution to reunify the country in doing so.

If this negotiation can be pulled off we see a consensus which calls checkmate and bye bye to the PAD.

What will the government be willing to sacrifice in exchange? UDD? Thaksin? It looks more like this goes beyond any neat solution at all tbh leaving only winner takes all. Right now we havent had an overt coup but we already have a governmetn in hiding in exile and Bangkok not effectively controlled by anybody. This weekend could see red on yellow violence.

Trust has also broken down completely.

There is no solution acceptable to all that does not involve taking out Thaksin forever politically, but is there a solution that involves taking him out forever politcally?

my guess it has all gone too far and it will not be a nice ending.

[Plus]

.. every time there is a PM that someone doesn't like they will take over the airport until they get what they want.

It's not "someone" - there are tens of thousands of people voluntarily risking their lives for the just cause right now.

It doesn't happen "everytime", it is a real people revolution. Democratic government would have never allowed discontent to reach these proportions.

[cmsally]

I agree this would logically follow, so long as my supposition on the identity of the senior person is correct, which as OMR points out we will never truly know, but in this light it does seem likely because it provides a very neat solution for that group.

I think it would be optimistic to see a neat solution involving the sacrifice of the PAD AND the govt., with the army and whoever coming out on top. I think it has gone past that stage. My supposition is that now there has to be negotiations between army et al and govt. to find a workable solution for both to come out on top.

Final result is PAD are still sacrificed. There is too much at stake for either govt or army to lose but they can have a common purpose if they are decimating the PAD and there is a solution to reunify the country in doing so.

If this negotiation can be pulled off we see a consensus which calls checkmate and bye bye to the PAD.

What will the government be willing to sacrifice in exchange? UDD? Thaksin? It looks more like this goes beyond any neat solution at all tbh leaving only winner takes all. Right now we havent had an overt coup but we already have a governmetn in hiding in exile and Bangkok not effectively controlled by anybody. This weekend could see red on yellow violence.

Trust has also broken down completely.

There is no solution acceptable to all that does not involve taking out Thaksin forever politically, but is there a solution that involves taking him out forever politcally?

my guess it has all gone too far and it will not be a nice ending.

I think you underestimate the "hand" Thaksin has to play.

[Journalist]

This needs to end now. It is clear that the PAD will not leave, so the police must force them out immediately. Preferably without, but if needed, with force. It is simply no longer acceptable. There are tens of thousands of tourists who must go home to their job. If they can't return, they will possibly lose their jobs. Children can't go to school. Medical patients can't fly to get treatment.

This IS terrorism and the government/police/army need to act now.

They've had ample time to do something so far, arguably with the support of the majority, and they haven't.

If this government is really a true supporter of democracy they should resign and call new elections, with the premise they can form another party in time should the PPP be dissolved.

Stand off over, arrest the PAD leaders and return to normalcy as soon as feasibly possible.

I think calling new elections is better than asking for the army to come in. The army does law and order, but in fairness can't be expected to do anything else.

The issue of civil pressure bringing change can be debated ad nauseam. Eg: Supposing Thaivisa members didn't like something and a few dozen picketed Admin George's house asking for a rule change. Should he give in if he wanted to get them to remove their barricades. Is it ethical on their part? Who knows.

[blaze]

This needs to end now. It is clear that the PAD will not leave, so the police must force them out immediately. Preferably without, but if needed, with force. It is simply no longer acceptable. There are tens of thousands of tourists who must go home to their job. If they can't return, they will possibly lose their jobs. Children can't go to school. Medical patients can't fly to get treatment.

This IS terrorism and the government/police/army need to act now.

If this government is really a true supporter of democracy they should resign and call new elections, with the premise they can form another party in time should the PPP be dissolved.

Is this what keeps the democratic system in tact in other countries? Governments resigning when ordered/extorted to do so by a mob?

Do all mobs have 'right' on their side?

Who determines which mob to yield to? You? Me?

Sondhi?

Thaksin?

After the gov't has resigned and a gov't more acceptable to Sondhi and Chamlong is in place, should it also resign when a mob of redshirts seizes an airport or two?

If a bunch of right wing nutcases seize some American airports demanding the gov't resign, would you similarly recommend acquiescence? OR would it depend on who was in the government.

Do you not see the contradiction in preserving democracy by abandoning democracy?

[quiksilva]

hammered we know there is a permanent solution to Thaksin and whilst I doubt it would ever happen, nothing would surprise me.

[bubba]

According to the U-Tapao Airport report, issued at 1130, airlines using the airport are:

• Aeroflot and Transaero arrive and depart for Moscow;

• Asiana: two arrive from Seoul and one departs for Seoul.

• Thai Airways International: one inbound from Korea and one outbound to India

• Cathay Pacific Airways: both outbound and inbound to Hong Kong

• EVA Air: to and from Taipei

• Ethiopian Airlines: inbound from Ethiopia and outbound to Hong Kong

• Austrian Airline: coming from Kuala Lumpur

• LTU (Air Berlin): flights to Germany

• Nok Air: to Kuala Lumpur

• Bangkok Airways: two flights to Phuket and one to Samui. It also operates five flights a week from Samui to Hong Kong and daily flights to Singapore

Etihad is also planning to operate from U-Tapao, but has not yet confirmed. Lufthansa will transfer customers from Kuala Lumpur to Phuket to transfer with a flight to Germany.

[Plus]

with that phone call PAD have sealed their fate and effectively shot themselves in the foot

About that phone call - I see it as a confirmation that PAD is a movement of people, it can't be manipulated and ordered at will, nor by its leaders, nor by unnamed "elites".

If the elites broker a secret deal with Thaksin - it won't stop PAD, there has to be people's consent.

[anothertorres]

This needs to end now. It is clear that the PAD will not leave, so the police must force them out immediately. Preferably without, but if needed, with force. It is simply no longer acceptable. There are tens of thousands of tourists who must go home to their job. If they can't return, they will possibly lose their jobs. Children can't go to school. Medical patients can't fly to get treatment.

This IS terrorism and the government/police/army need to act now.

LOL

You must watch a lot of American TV news!

This is NOT terrorism. It's civil disobedience. It is not from foreign actors but Thai citizens openly trying to oust a government which seems to be illegitimate. Let's not bring American hysteria to Thailand with us, alright?

It's too far and needs to be brought back, nuf said.

i think you might be surprised that there are some Thai's who are also labeling them as 'terrorists'. that tag has lost it's punch since the US made everyone a terrorist...

Edited November 28, 2008 by anothertorres

[cmsally]

Yes Sally agreed, I was thinking along the same lines, I don't see the government losing out here at all, with that phone call PAD have sealed their fate and effectively shot themselves in the foot. In Thailand some lines can't be crossed.

I can almost see one side giving the government the nod to move forward.

Result being that the government regain control (but perhaps with conditions attached) and recover a modicum of respect from the international community for bringing the situation under control and sends a clear message to any other group that might try this again in the future.

The question remains though whether the police/navy/airforce can actually complete that mission, professionally, with minimal violence.

The question is, will army be willing to join in or simply nod consent from the sidelines.

Either way without army... support PAD don't have a leg to stand on.

The question is, can the 2 sides (not PAD) put aside their monumental differences and put the good of the country first. IF (and its a big if) this can be achieved, reconciliation can be achieved and the country can move forward. If it cannot be achieved, not much optimism I am afraid as neither faction will take a defeat lying down.

[CRUNCHER]

Why should PM resign and give in to a bunch of thugs? If he does, every time there is a PM that someone doesn't like they will take over the airport until they get what they want. What would have happened by now if the PAD or whoever took over the airport in Singapore. Or JFK or Heathrow or anywhere but here? The PAD has practically destroyed this country and even some of them are starting to realize it. There is only one way to deal with this situation and people will probably get hurt. But it won't be the PAD leaders, only the poor ignorant half-wits they got to do their dirty work.

Exactly!

[bubba]

Protesters Look Set to Be Dispersed at 3 p.m.

There are reports from ASTV that the task forces under the leadership of Interior Minister Kowit Wattana will disperse the PAD protesters from Government House and Don Muang Airport at 3 p.m. today.

The order on how to handle the protesters who are gathering at the Suvarnabhumi Airport has yet to be issued or disclosed to the media.

Unsubstantiated from: http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1010867

[brahmburgers]

The main problem is: there is not a satang's worth of difference in the public policy platforms between the major opposing parties - at least not in relation to affecting the daily lives of the population of Thailand. Normally, in a political opposition scenario, there are opposing policy platforms - about issues such as taxation, public services, foreign policy, education, health care, infrastructure, etc. The average man on the street can examine opposing platforms, and make a decision about which platform he supports. The average man thus has some stake in the outcome.

In the present Thai situation, neither side has any significant policy differences with the opposition - other than the differences about who will sit it the seats of power, and how those seats will be filled in the future. This is about personalities and generic power - not about civic programs or policies. As such - the average Thai has no interest - because their life does not change either way. They are not going to "rise up" to defend one side or the other. ......

I agree. Even during the recent national elections, there seemed to be a dearth of policy proposals or debates. Thai Democrat Party, in particular, are remiss for not standing for anything.

I have just come back from standby as part of the medical teams mentioned earlier......

{text deleted for brevity} ....unconfirmed but is what I was told last night.

Thanks sincerely Markokang, it's v. interesting to hear up-to-the-minute report by someone who is at the scene.

Some added notes;

>>>> Somchai bunkering down in C.Mai is not unlike The Burmese junta hiding away from Rangoon. (P.S. Burmese people are increasingly referring to their country as 'Burma' rather than 'Myanmar' - and 'Rangoon' rather than 'Yangon'). Just thought I'd slip that off-topic remark in there, as it's encouraging for those of us who love Burma.

>>>> A letter to one of the newspapers today mentioned that: Major airports ww sometimes close down due to union strikes and such - so it's not wholly unprecendented to have an int'l airport shut down.

>>>> Some posters refer to the demonstrators as 'terrorists.' They're not. They're demonstrators who are largely peaceful. Let's hope it continues peacefully.

>>>> Are the PAD leaders and PPP people talking to each other? They won't agree on many points, but it's much better to be communicating.

>>>> Any elderly demonstrators and those with children should get their' and their kids' butts out of there immediately!!!

[Journalist]

If the elites broker a secret deal with Thaksin - it won't stop PAD, there has to be people's consent.

Which, in the absence of a referendum, is what general elections are supposed to achieve.

So how do you get the people's consent if neither are used as a tool?

[werbs]

Also regarding the contact lenses, I misspoke myself. The lens will fuse to your eyeball. Whenever there is a riot orm other situation in a public venue, there may be chilldren and seniors present. It is not always possible to segregate the combatants. The point is the agents are non-lethal, and the use of them is more humane and results in less death or injury than storming the place which willresult in gunfire and a good chance of innocents getting killed in crossfire. This is comon sense. I sent email to my old co-workers in NY and they find it hard to believe that some people on this forum are so clueless. Even non-law enforcement types should realize what needs to be done here.

and even law enforcement types should realize that is for the Prime Minister to resign.

Your co-workers back in NY might even agree with that one if you emailed them and asked.

yeah that will solve the problem oh no wait, it won't solve the peoblem, it will set a precendent for future groups who are unhappy wth the government and let them know that acts of terrorism is all that is needed to remove the government. if they quit now it will be the red shirts on the streets aiming to remove whoever replaces them, however it will be the same result in the next election leading to the same situation.

PAD need to be stamped out now, they are in the wrong with their actions, however right they may be with their agenda, their actions have shown them to be nothing more than a selfish mob who have affected thailand negatively than any government could.

[anothertorres]

I sent email to my old co-workers in NY and they find it hard to believe that some people on this forum are so clueless.

2 things here... a) no you didn't and iii) Utica-Rome doesn't count

2 things here. Yes I did and who said anything about Utica-Rome?

i was just razzing you for your condescending tone. you needn't email dudes from the US to corroborate what's already painfully obvious about internet message boards. we know we're clueless, that's why we don't have any warm blooded friends (labradors don't count)!

[Danton]

.. every time there is a PM that someone doesn't like they will take over the airport until they get what they want.

It's not "someone" - there are tens of thousands of people voluntarily risking their lives for the just cause right now.

It doesn't happen "everytime", it is a real people revolution. Democratic government would have never allowed discontent to reach these proportions.

Most of the PAD demonstrators probably believe they are fighting a just cause.

They do not realize that they are being fooled by a few evil manipulators , whose ultimate goal is to move the clock backwards , because they know that they cannot survive the modern world.

This is futile and will eventually fail.

[madi]

This needs to end now. It is clear that the PAD will not leave, so the police must force them out immediately. Preferably without, but if needed, with force. It is simply no longer acceptable. There are tens of thousands of tourists who must go home to their job. If they can't return, they will possibly lose their jobs. Children can't go to school. Medical patients can't fly to get treatment.

This IS terrorism and the government/police/army need to act now.

LOL

You must watch a lot of American TV news!

This is NOT terrorism. It's civil disobedience. It is not from foreign actors but Thai citizens openly trying to oust a government which seems to be illegitimate. Let's not bring American hysteria to Thailand with us, alright?

It's too far and needs to be brought back, nuf said.

i think you might be surprised that there are some Thai's who are also labeling them as 'terrorists'. that tag has lost it's punch since the US made everyone a terrorist...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah those Americans are really stupid to call those people out of Palistand and Afghanistan as terrorists. I mean what they did in India is not terror is it. of course people who go into Hotels and kill people are not terrorists.

Those stupid Americans.

of course you in other parts of the world are so much smarter than those idiots in America who just elected a man named Obama president. because as we all know, the Americans are racist jerks and would never elect a man with an Islamic name or a black face. Those in Europe, Australia and the likes are far superior to the stupid Americans.

I agree.

[bravingbangkok]

Also regarding the contact lenses, I misspoke myself. The lens will fuse to your eyeball. Whenever there is a riot orm other situation in a public venue, there may be chilldren and seniors present. It is not always possible to segregate the combatants. The point is the agents are non-lethal, and the use of them is more humane and results in less death or injury than storming the place which willresult in gunfire and a good chance of innocents getting killed in crossfire. This is comon sense. I sent email to my old co-workers in NY and they find it hard to believe that some people on this forum are so clueless. Even non-law enforcement types should realize what needs to be done here.

and even law enforcement types should realize that is for the Prime Minister to resign.

Your co-workers back in NY might even agree with that one if you emailed them and asked.

yeah that will solve the problem oh no wait, it won't solve the peoblem, it will set a precendent for future groups who are unhappy wth the government and let them know that acts of terrorism is all that is needed to remove the government. if they quit now it will be the red shirts on the streets aiming to remove whoever replaces them, however it will be the same result in the next election leading to the same situation.

PAD need to be stamped out now, they are in the wrong with their actions, however right they may be with their agenda, their actions have shown them to be nothing more than a selfish mob who have affected thailand negatively than any government could.

What do you want them to do sit in a field in the middle of Issan waving yellow flags at rice paddies ??????

[sabaijai]

Any PAD supporters still holed up at the airport have ZERO sympathy from me if they get hurt or killed. They know what they did, they know what's coming. You can't just seize an international airport and expect to be greeted with flowers and cookies.

If they had seized the JFK or L.A. airport, it would have ended a long time ago, and probably much worse than the Thai police will hopefully end it tonight. As far as I'm concerned, if you run past security at the JFK or L.A. airport, protesting something or not, you get shot in the back before you get anywhere. The Thai government and police have been more than patient, but enough is enough.

This ain't the USA.

[madi]

Any PAD supporters still holed up at the airport have ZERO sympathy from me if they get hurt or killed. They know what they did, they know what's coming. You can't just seize an international airport and expect to be greeted with flowers and cookies.

If they had seized the JFK or L.A. airport, it would have ended a long time ago, and probably much worse than the Thai police will hopefully end it tonight. As far as I'm concerned, if you run past security at the JFK or L.A. airport, protesting something or not, you get shot in the back before you get anywhere. The Thai government and police have been more than patient, but enough is enough.

This ain't the USA.

It is a joke

[quiksilva]

Yes Sally agreed, I was thinking along the same lines, I don't see the government losing out here at all, with that phone call PAD have sealed their fate and effectively shot themselves in the foot. In Thailand some lines can't be crossed.

I can almost see one side giving the government the nod to move forward.

Result being that the government regain control (but perhaps with conditions attached) and recover a modicum of respect from the international community for bringing the situation under control and sends a clear message to any other group that might try this again in the future.

The question remains though whether the police/navy/airforce can actually complete that mission, professionally, with minimal violence.

The question is, will army be willing to join in or simply nod consent from the sidelines.

Join in with who?

So far the army have remained neutral, hopefully that will continue, I suspect (and hope) that the result of that phone call will have cemented that position.

[anothertorres]

i think you might be surprised that there are some Thai's who are also labeling them as 'terrorists'. that tag has lost it's punch since the US made everyone a terrorist...

Yeah those Americans are really stupid to call those people out of Palistand and Afghanistan as terrorists. I mean what they did in India is not terror is it. of course people who go into Hotels and kill people are not terrorists.

Those stupid Americans.

of course you in other parts of the world are so much smarter than those idiots in America who just elected a man named Obama president. because as we all know, the Americans are racist jerks and would never elect a man with an Islamic name or a black face. Those in Europe, Australia and the likes are far superior to the stupid Americans.

I agree.

hey now, cranky pants! i'm an american, who voted for Obama, you're talking to the wrong guy. trust me, i lived in the US the last 8 years as a pink-commie-liberal-bastard who many times was called a 'terrorist' for my liberal views. maybe you didn't experience the last 8 years living in the US, i don't know, but if you really are of the same vision as i am, you were now doubt told at times that you were "un-american" and you were either "with us or against us".

so i'll say it again, the word 'terrorism' has lost it's punch since the US labeled everyone a terrorist who did not agree with the current policy.