Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[xminator]

Looks like some people think that dissolving PPP will be the same as all 233 PPP MP's will be without a seat. Thats wrong. They will be without a party. Big diffrence. I understand that its currently about 70 MP's that are under investigation. And not all of them from PPP. The coalition will most likely still have a majority in the parliament after PPP is dissolved.

PPP most likely want to know IF they get dissolved before doing anything. They will have all to win by issuing a new election. The democrats already declined mass-quit, because that would not trigger a new election, just by-elections and they can at best lose seats. If Yongyuth Tiyaphairat is given a yellow card, the PPP will continue to exist. Red card and we have to learn saying PTP (or is it PPTP). The PPP would prefer a new election I think. This time there will be no junta to make things difficult for them. The PAD protests most likely helped them gaining a few votes, events like this tend to polarize the politicts, and might even be able to rule without any coalition. They have a lot to win from a new election. But as said before, they want to know what party can run for the election.

And the effect is simple. PAD cant win without non democratic intervention. The courts wont win this one for them. The PM/Cabinet have nothing to win from a violent confrontation. They have nothing to win from red-shirts marching in force to any yellow-stronghold. So PAD will be alowed to sit where they are until they find something else to do, and the court and its appeal say they have to move. So unless PAD find some excuse to leave early there will be no more Suvarnabhumi flights this year.

It will hurt thai economy some, it will hurt Bangkok economy a lot, but both business and tourists will find other ways if the situation keep to the current gridlock for a long time. I guess Rainman with his 2 millions worth of goods is already working on alternatives.

[timonase]

Rainman, i am also affected by the airport seizure, but you need to look deeper into the situation. It is not a PAD problem only, they are not the people behind and we might see things unfold on Friday.

I know that. I am sure all the people here and elsewhere know it. Some don't want to accept it, others do. Surely nobody wants to talk about it.

but then there is no reason to ask, why the police and the military does not remove them....

Dont get me wrong, i do not agree with the goals of the "PAD" but they will win. The only alternative is civil war and believe me, thats not good for your business, either.

regards

Edited December 1, 2008 by timonase

[grandpops]

Whilst snipping my post for a more self-convenient reply you 'forgot' to answer the other two questions I posed (now hi-lighted). Please do. Thank you

First, I don't think I have any kind of obligation to answer your questions or posts, just as you don't have any to answer mine.

Second, I don't care of you consider any of my posts childish. My childish posts don't hurt anyone, don't cause any financial losses. The childish actions of the PAD and the incompetence of the PM to stop them, however, are hurting Thailand and it's people.

Thats the problem with "elite sheep". They think they are superior and can demand answers to their crackpot questions on a web board.

We shold perhaps stick to highlighting the Fascist threat to people with the capacity to learn or understand something.

[barryjohnson]

The most talked about news item in Hong Kong today, at least in my office, is the death of a Hong Kong man in Thailand.

He and his wife were travelling by road from BKK to Phuket to try to get a flight home to Hong Kong, and were involved in some sort of vehicle accident either late last night or today. Husband killed and the wife is in hospital, and now some family members are flying in, with government assistance (Hong Kong government, obviously)

This story is getting very heavy coverage in HK and from the conversations I've overheard, I don't think too many of my co-workers will be revisiting Thailand in the near future. And I doubt the 2000 baht per day "stranded traveller compensation" will be much consolation to the poor woman in hospital who has just lost her husband.

I would post a link, but can't as I'm new

This is indeed very sad. I am so sorry. My tears almost fell. Please take care on the road. Long hours of driving can make people drowsy. When getting the trsansport to the south. Make sure it is operated by 2 drivers (not one).

[dave9988]

Their announced intention is to rid the country of corruptions, to make it fair for all.

omg its so great you have kept a sense of humor through all of this!

[Bagwan]

There are 52 airports in Thailand !

ttp://www.aircraft-charter-world.com/airports/asia/thailand.htm

10 of which can handle the big stuff,I can't name 10 in the UK that can do 747s.

I can.

[rainman]

Thats the problem with "elite sheep". They think they are superior and can demand answers to their crackpot questions on a web board.

No, the "elite sheep" are those that think they can sit in an airport all day and night and ruin the country, while preaching that Thailand's poor don't deserve a voting right because they don't have a University degree.

[paulfromphuket]

There are 52 airports in Thailand !

ttp://www.aircraft-charter-world.com/airports/asia/thailand.htm

10 of which can handle the big stuff,I can't name 10 in the UK that can do 747s.

I can.

Go on then smarty pants

[baht&sold]

Whilst snipping my post for a more self-convenient reply you 'forgot' to answer the other two questions I posed (now hi-lighted). Please do. Thank you

First, I don't think I have any kind of obligation to answer your questions or posts, just as you don't have any to answer mine.

Second, I don't care of you consider any of my posts childish. My childish posts don't hurt anyone, don't cause any financial losses. The childish actions of the PAD and the incompetence of the PM to stop them, however, are hurting Thailand and it's people.

Thats the problem with "elite sheep". They think they are superior and can demand answers to their crackpot questions on a web board.

We shold perhaps stick to highlighting the Fascist threat to people with the capacity to learn or understand something.

A comedic tag-team I see. Ok, another question: which one of you is Schwarzenegger and which one is Devito?

Seriously though, to either of the 'twins' -

Q: What kind of a democratic Govt desires to remove vote-fraud rules from it's constitution?

Q: Will you be as vitriolic against the Red-UDD if they follow through on a promise to 'seige' the constitution court (or worse)?

[Wolfie]

Who, Wolfie ? Nah, he's been around for ages (and ages, like a well ripened old cheese) !

And twice as smelly!

[jdinasia]

B&S

I can answer Q1

The kind of government that will be dismantled and most of its players banned for vote fraud!

[barryjohnson]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/01...es_30089895.php

Your photo, your story

By The Nation

Our web readers are invited to share experiences, feelings on the effects of the on-going closure of the Suvarnabhumi airport.

[Kerryd]

Who, Wolfie ? Nah, he's been around for ages (and ages, like a well ripened old cheese) !

And twice as smelly!

I was going to say that, but figured I'd wait for someone else do it and incur your wrath.

Speaking of things that probably smell almost as bad.

I haven't heard, but are garbage trucks and sanitation trucks (honey-wagons/sh*t sucker/vacuum trucks used to clean porta-potties) making rounds out there ?

For those that recall, during Hurricane Katrina a whack of people took refuge in the football stadium. They were only there a short while, but the toilets apparently became plugged and overflowing within the first day or two.

That number of people must be generating a lot of garbage. Not sure how many protesters there are in total there, but here on camp, with a population of about 15,000, they generate a huge amount of garbage everyday.

[paulfromphuket]

Who, Wolfie ? Nah, he's been around for ages (and ages, like a well ripened old cheese) !

And twice as smelly!

I was going to say that, but figured I'd wait for someone else do it and incur your wrath.

Speaking of things that probably smell almost as bad.

I haven't heard, but are garbage trucks and sanitation trucks (honey-wagons/sh*t sucker/vacuum trucks used to clean porta-potties) making rounds out there ?

For those that recall, during Hurricane Katrina a whack of people took refuge in the football stadium. They were only there a short while, but the toilets apparently became plugged and overflowing within the first day or two.

That number of people must be generating a lot of garbage. Not sure how many protesters there are in total there, but here on camp, with a population of about 15,000, they generate a huge amount of garbage everyday.

Suvarnabhumi Airport Project is a national priority of the government and is designated to be the aviation hub in Southeast Asian region. Since Bangkok International Airport (BIA) has restrictive development to accommodate the air traffic growth in the future, which is estimated to be up to 58 million passengers per year in 2008 while the full-scale development of provided plot of land at Nong Ngu Hao with its capacity to accommodate 45 million passenger per year, 76 flights per hour and 3 million tons of cargo per year.

I think it can cope.

[robee]

PAD has in taking control of the Bangkok airports, been either very lucky or has been very smart. I believe it is the later. Now I have no dog in this fight, so I am not advocate or a critic. Just looking at this situation for what it is, and from an outside view. PAD had really no reason to change its plan. No serious attempt by the police to take back control and every day this continues it gives PAD more of what they want, control, if even just in appearance. In the press and the eyes of the world, blocking all access to the airports really gives PAD a strangle hold on this country.

[xminator]

I think it can cope.

Are you sure? 45 million sounds like an impressive number, but divide by 24, then by 365 and your down to 5000. So while 30 000 people might not be a problem on a functional airport, dont forget that for a place like that to work you have thousands of workers cleaning and fixing the thousands of small and big problems arriving. The garbage have to be transported away, ask Napoli what happens if you dont...

[Kerryd]

Suvarnabhumi Airport Project is a national priority of the government and is designated to be the aviation hub in Southeast Asian region. Since Bangkok International Airport (BIA) has restrictive development to accommodate the air traffic growth in the future, which is estimated to be up to 58 million passengers per year in 2008 while the full-scale development of provided plot of land at Nong Ngu Hao with its capacity to accommodate 45 million passenger per year, 76 flights per hour and 3 million tons of cargo per year.

I think it can cope.

Uh huh. Keep in mind that there are no staff there to make sure everything is operating properly. When operating normally, sure it can handle x amount of passengers/cargo/aircraft per hour/day/year.

But right now, there are no plumbers, electricians, cleaners, etc. No city garbage trucks making dozens of trips a day to empty dumpsters.

And from what little we've seen of the interior of the airport, it doesn't look like the protesters are using any of the facilities air-side, though I suspect they are using them downstairs by Gate 7.

I've heard/read reports of PAD "resupply" trucks making deliveries, but are they also removing the garbage, or is it being dumped somewhere "convenient" for someone else to clean up after this is all over ?

I suspect the latter.

[paulfromphuket]

I think it can cope.

Are you sure? 45 million sounds like an impressive number, but divide by 24, then by 365 and your down to 5000. So while 30 000 people might not be a problem on a functional airport, dont forget that for a place like that to work you have thousands of workers cleaning and fixing the thousands of small and big problems arriving. The garbage have to be transported away, ask Napoli what happens if you dont...

so thats 5136 per hour!24 hours /7 days a week /365 all year yep think it up to it/

[paulfromphuket]

I think it can cope.

Are you sure? 45 million sounds like an impressive number, but divide by 24, then by 365 and your down to 5000. So while 30 000 people might not be a problem on a functional airport, dont forget that for a place like that to work you have thousands of workers cleaning and fixing the thousands of small and big problems arriving. The garbage have to be transported away, ask Napoli what happens if you dont...

so thats 5136 per hour!24 hours /7 days a week /365 all year yep think it up to it/

they have had 4 months of training in site management i see to remember there was a trade in plastic bottles recyclables etc.

[FatherF]

I think it can cope.

Are you sure? 45 million sounds like an impressive number, but divide by 24, then by 365 and your down to 5000. So while 30 000 people might not be a problem on a functional airport, dont forget that for a place like that to work you have thousands of workers cleaning and fixing the thousands of small and big problems arriving. The garbage have to be transported away, ask Napoli what happens if you dont...

so thats 5136 per hour!24 hours /7 days a week /365 all year yep think it up to it/

I wonder how many people are still waiting to get through immigration?

FF

[Genghis]

Does anyone else feel that in these multiple threads about the same issue, we are devolving into some sort of PAD vs. PPP antagonism?

To attempt to put an end to some of the antagonism exhibited herein, can we at least agree that there is a problem created by the airport occupation, for better or for worse, and that we all hope to be resolved as soon as possible?

I have my own very strong political views, and have mentioned them in this thread and others. but let's put those aside for the moment. I am not crazy about either the PAD or PPP-- I just want this resolved for the good of Thailand and the wonderful Thai friends I have made here. It is significantly and irrevocably hurting people-- I think no intelligent person can dispute this-- any idiot who dismisses economic damage as unimportant and non-life-threatening should be ignored. There isn't much we can do as farangs, but at least we can express our hopes that no violence occurs, regardless of which group we may happen to support.

All of this is quite obvious, of course-- I'm just trying to bring this discussion back to the issue at hand and distance it from political mud-slinging.

[Wiresok]

As a seeker of truth and justice I have stepped back from the emmotive stuff and taken the personalities out of things, and what are you left with,

1.The government are democratically elected and legitimate.

Allowing for the warts and all, there is no international critisism of the government or the election process.

2.The PAD are unelected and self invested.

They draw only from elite society for their support and funding, claim to be democratic, but want to deny the poor a vote.

Internationally the PAD are described as against democracy.

Whether the PAD are terrorists or not in the usual defined ways, they are now percieved as "terrorists " in the international community, especially being the next news item after the Mumbai terrorists.

3.Court decisions in Thailand are dubious to say the least.I would not say they are fair, have to many vested interests, just look at vt7 for an example.

4.Previously the Thai politics were never aired internationally.

The PAD actions have ensured that Thai politics have been headline news for a week now and people around the world who never had a clue about Thai politics , or considered it democratic , now understand the real situation class system that is practised there.

Internationally, people have realise where the "democracy" is and where the "terrorist "is in the thai politics

The international comunity will not stand for the Thai way because they have now been educated as to what it is all really, fundementally about.

5.In conclusion the international community will not allow anarchy to prevail over democracy.

PAD may not be confirmed terrorists at present but they have certainly appeared on the radar of world anti-terrorist organisations.

[grandpops]

Does anyone else feel that in these multiple threads about the same issue, we are devolving into some sort of PAD vs. PPP antagonism?

To attempt to put an end to some of the antagonism exhibited herein, can we at least agree that there is a problem created by the airport occupation, for better or for worse, and that we all hope to be resolved as soon as possible?

I have my own very strong political views, and have mentioned them in this thread and others. but let's put those aside for the moment. I am not crazy about either the PAD or PPP-- I just want this resolved for the good of Thailand and the wonderful Thai friends I have made here. It is significantly and irrevocably hurting people-- I think no intelligent person can dispute this-- any idiot who dismisses economic damage as unimportant and non-life-threatening should be ignored. There isn't much we can do as farangs, but at least we can express our hopes that no violence occurs, regardless of which group we may happen to support.

All of this is quite obvious, of course-- I'm just trying to bring this discussion back to the issue at hand and distance it from political mud-slinging.

your sentiment is right, and I am not being sarcastic. The time for talking was months ago but when they managed to gerrymander through the corrupt courts the thing about Samak and his cooking show being a conflict of interest, most of us developed a sense of fair play. A TV cooking show for gods sake and the Courts ruled against him.

What has happend though is it has gone beyond resolving. We and Thailand are loosing so much money through this that many of us don't want resolution. We want the people who have caused it to suffer as much as possible for their actions.

People now have a clear choice, Fascism or Democracy and there is no sitting on the fence.

The PAD have made it absolutly clear they don't want to discuss this. Its a new appointed Governent or a shut down country. If/when the Army manage to make a Coup, it will get even worse.

One thing, the people loosing the money are the rich educated ones not the poor so there is no hurry for poor people to resolve this as they will never feel a monetary loss as much as this Elite.

Let them give all their support and money to Sondhi if that is the intellegent thing to do. See if we care when they return home from the Airport to financial ruin. Many in that airport have a f&&*ng massive reality check coming to them when this is over. And as their mugs have been on TV every night there will be more than one or two reprisals, bust heads and windows etc.

Laughing stock of the world.... If thats all Thailand was it would be better than it is now.

[paulfromphuket]

Shakespeare's Henry IV. Part II

At last a thinker!

[amarka]

The business leaders of Thailand will be expected to absorb the financial problems from the seizure of Thailand’s main airport.

After suffering losses over the years, from problems relating to bird flu, SARS, then the horrific tsunami, businesses large and small are now reeling from this latest unnecessary financial loss

People like me, both foreign and Thai will be expected to pay wages and costs, even though our income is drying up. Furthermore we shall be expected to compensate our clients, even though we are not at fault.

My Thai staff will expect to be paid and also expect to keep their jobs – it’s also not their fault!

What should we business people do?

I love Thailand and its people and do my best to respect the country and its culture, I have also offered significant personal financial support ( especially after the tsunami ) and investment over the years and more planned...... now for the first time I am beginning to think if I have made a mistake over the last 10 years....

I am not the only person wondering about Thailand in this way …..

Yes I know this will pass – and I realize we have to be patient, but this is a man made disaster and not a natural disaster and therefore, could have been avoided

There is no longer any rule of law in Thailand, the Government is being ignored, and this does not furnish foreign investors with any confidence at all, indeed we are on the brink of a coup, military or de-facto – it’s the same

Never mind the reasons for the occupation of the airports, there are courts who should decide who is at fault, and once groups and thugs start taking things into their own hands, from whichever side, then we all lose – but Thailand loses most.

The occupation of the main airports is illegal and has ruined Thailand in many peoples eyes and the damage to the economy and the reputation of Thailand is staggering ………… and to top all of this off with a coup, Military or otherwise, will just bury us all 10 feet lower than we are already

Edited December 1, 2008 by amarka

[animatic]

taking hostages? ... great hyperbole!

So let's ask someone "objective" ....

The BBC --- nope they aren't calling them terrorists

Thailand protesters attack police

So since you want to quote outside media lets quote AP

Associated Press reporters saw one policeman being grabbed Saturday at a checkpoint by three protesters, forcibly put in a vehicle, and driven away toward areas controlled by the demonstrators.

care to explain how 1. that is a "great hyperbole" and 2. that is just peaceful protesting? ehhhh?

~Well isn't it curious we have heard NOTHING further about this alleged abduction...?

No sign that this policeman is still being held, no demands for his release.

We don't even have a NAME for this allegedely 'kidnapped officer'.

Maybe he got in the car to go have a negociation and then was dropped off again.

Seems a bit odd this silence, no?

[animatic]

Shakespeare's Henry IV. Part II

At last a thinker!

I agree,

but had Henry up Saterday, minus citations.

With Merchant of Venice and Hamlet rather mixed.

Oh yes

Deny it to a king? Then happy low, lie down!

Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.

[james24]

Did someone actually say that about Isaan people or was that a unbelievably foul joke???

[paulfromphuket]

Shakespeare's Henry IV. Part II

At last a thinker!

I agree,

but had Henry up Saterday, minus citations.

With Merchant of Venice and Hamlet rather mixed.

Oh yes

Deny it to a king? Then happy low, lie down!

Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.

humour thats what we need , Just what did the romans do for us (the life of brian)

[Crushdepth]

As a seeker of truth and justice I have stepped back from the emmotive stuff and taken the personalities out of things, and what are you left with,

1.The government are democratically elected and legitimate.

Allowing for the warts and all, there is no international critisism of the government or the election process.

Here we go again Mr Truth and Justice Seeker:

1. Several parties forming the current 'government' (and I use that term loosely) will likely be dissolved for electoral fraud. For the SECOND TIME. The judgement could come as early as TOMORROW. Now, if you think a government that repeatedly engages in electoral fraud can claim to be 'democractically elected' or 'legitimate', then you probably need to do a bit of reading.

2. Re. international criticism, had the present Thai government been permitted to use force against the protestors resulting in another massacre, there would have been plenty of concern expressed by the international community. Fortunately it was denied that option. So while it is a largely peaceful protest, and with an internal legal solution likely at hand, there's not a lot to complain about. And does international criticism of the electoral process really matter when Thailand's own Electoral Commission has declared the election to be as crooked as a dog's hind leg?

Jeez.