Suvarnabhumi PAD Protest Continues

[PeaceBlondie]

Folks .. these BOMB attacks are terrorism ... sitting in at an airport are not! Sitting in at an airport is civil disobedience!

Talk about spitting in someone's face and then crying when he hits back with his fist.

But hitting with the fist is not eye for an eye. Hitting with the fist is not turning the other cheek. Bombs at government house are bombs, terrible, terrorist weapons exploded by terrorist Taksin supporters against folks who are conducting civil disobedience much more peacefully than their attackers are.

Can we cut out this double standard crap? Do you violent folks believe the PAD protesters have the right to as much self-defense as their opposition has? And, can we agree from what the biased news reports tell us, that the government goons are ten times as terroristic as the PAD mob is? Thank you. Now, go love your enemy.

[toptuan]

I had a thought this morning, what if someone, the police or a airport security officer, turned on all the water sprinklers in the ceiling at about 4 in the morning. Don't you think that would send a bunch of people outside the building, maybe all of them. All the Thai police I have ever seen, wear jump badges, so I am assuming they have all been on airplanes, how about landing a bunch on top of the airport building and send them down lobbing tear gas as they went. Just thoughts of something less deadly than bullets or grenades.

Oh my, my. I think the current spineless authorities would deem this method not "gentle" enough. Remember, it's all about PR, and not risking the disapproval of the highest supporters of PAD.

[younghusband]

Unfortunately the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point!!!

Brit, you are a top bloke on ThaiVisa and a gentleman, but we disagree about violence. I agree the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point. But PAD has been almost perfectly nonviolent. You seem to have been calling for weeks or years now for violent solution to this nearly perfectly peaceful protest. All of you who call for violence in Thailand have a double standard if you expect the honorable opposition to stand by and be slaughtered like the faithful Indians who followed Gandhi. This is not India in 1939. Takin's goons killed in cold blood in Chiang Mai this month, so the possible scaring away of armed policeman is simply an episode of the Keystone Cops. We have probably seen far more violence at a rock concert, than PAD has done against the bloody violent thugs who are on Taksin's side.

You cannot be serious.I have always respected your fairness and balance, but this is absurd.In all seriousness it's a losing game to try and distinguish between rival sets of street thugs.I have no doubt there are some UDD people in this category.Don't forget also -so far- the UDD rallies have been models of restraint.Of course one recognises that there are many good natured and rightly outraged PAD members, but at the same time there is a disgusting number of violent thugs.

I loathe the PAD leadership,which has disgraced the country - far worse than Thaksin, but never call for violence.Indeed I sincerely regret violence on all sides.

Incidentally you should learn some history.Gandhi's followers were never slaughtered in the independence struggle.That's because the colonial masters were the British who despite their hypocrisy and racialism were capable of being shamed, possessors of a basic decency.Imagine if the colonial masters had been the Japanese or Germans (or French for that matter).

[frodo]

Pro-govt camp claims conspiracy

By The Nation

Pro-government camp has launched stinging attacks against Constitution Court, saying that the PAD is being asked to end airport closures in a secret deal

Veera Musigapong, a host of the pro-government "Today's Truth" programme, has claimed that The People's Alliance for Democracy was being secretly promised that if the Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang airports can reopen, its enemies will be dealt with another way.

He said the PAD was practically being told that if the movement gets protesters out of the airports, the verdicts could be in its favour.

"I don't have to show any evidence. Just hearing the PAD leaders say that everything will end on December 2 is enough," he said.

source: http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/11/30/hea...es_30089778.php

I don't have evidence, but there is a conspiracy. I suppose this same type of rhetoric will be coming from Veera and pro-government voices today.

[toptuan]

But PAD has been almost perfectly nonviolent.

A pretty weak argument. There was an insidious change in PAD's demeanor when they started carrying golf clubs, metal rods, clubs, etc. months ago. Serious lethal weapons (guns, ammunition, knives, etc.) have been found on their "peaceful guards" for at least a month now. The final straw for me was watching armed PAD gunmen, gunning down people in the streets last week near Don Muang Airport. Then the "fight to the death" rhetoric from their rabid leaders. Then, the temporary abduction of a police officer, and the ugly scene described above.

In my book, they've lost all credibility in the "Peaceful" category.

Your "has been almost perfectly" description is currently in tatters, and has been for several months now.

Nevertheless, I back "necessary force" using common western methods of riot control (which we have yet to see here); non-lethal but persuasive. It appears the Thai police and military have an "all or near'nothing" approach to this problem.

Vexing indeed.

Edited November 30, 2008 by toptuan

[younghusband]

As a coda to my last post I add a release from the Asian Human Right Commission.

AHRC : PAD Have Fascist Qualities

Asian Human Rights Commission:

The takeover of the main international airport in Bangkok by protestors going under the banner of the People's Alliance for Democracy is a watershed moment for democracy and the rule of law in Thailand. It follows some months of increasingly aggressive strategies to get the current government to resign and to block it from making amendments to the 2008 Constitution, which was prepared under the watch of the 2006 military coup leaders and their supporters and pushed through via a deeply flawed referendum.

Alliance members have since August gone from merely occupying spaces like roads and parks to occupying public buildings, in particular, the Government House. Organised armed "guards" have defended their positions both from opponents and from state security personnel. They have also illegally obtained and openly carried an array of manufactured and homemade weapons, including guns from caches that had reportedly been kept in the government premises. They have illegally detained other citizens. They have vandalised, destroyed and stolen public and private property. In the last day or two it has been reported that in addition to occupying the Suvarnabumi airport they have seized busses, and have refused to allow police into the airport to investigate explosions there during the night. They are now reportedly preparing for the latest phase in the "final battle", which is supposedly being instigated under codenames like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the cities on which the United States military dropped nuclear bombs at the close of World War Two.

The alliance has exhibited a number of features that from past lessons of Thailand and other countries around the world pose grave dangers to the future of the country's imperilled democracy. Of these, the following can be said.

1. They spring from a far-right ideology that has for decades driven successive military-bureaucratic administrations in Thailand, which dramatic changes to political and social life of the last two decades have increasingly threatened.

2. Their coordinated attacks and actions on the pretext of self-defence and national interest are designed to cause a widespread feeling of insecurity and uncertainty and allow reactionary elite forces to push Thailand back to a 1980s model of "half-sail" semi-elected government.

3. The alliance leaders have occupied the public space and forced people throughout Thailand to either take sides for or against them, or to opt out completely, thus alienating millions of people and denying them the opportunity to have a say on the key political and social questions of their time.

Some commentators and opponents of the alliance have described its agenda as fascist. This is not an exaggeration. Experience shows that the types of systemic changes and regimes that follow such movements, although they may not describe themselves as fascist, have fascist qualities. Indeed, successive dictatorships in Thailand's modern history appreciated, expressed and used many fascist symbols and policies, and the residue of these can be found in the language and behaviour of the alliance leaders today.

If these events are allowed to continue, and it is self-evident that they are being allowed, they will effectively undo everything that was done to build a culture of democratic rights and participation in public life in Thailand during the 1990s. The damage that they are now in a position to effect will surpass anything of that caused by the ousted government of Thaksin Shinawatra, and could even provoke a greater disaster than the 2006 coup and scrapping of the 1997 Constitution. Whatever institutional and legal gains were made in the last decade or two will be undone.

Already, the criminal justice system of Thailand has been reduced to an utter joke, its agencies and personnel either unable or unwilling to intervene effectively to protect public property and people's lives, or even prosecute wrongdoers. That the security forces can carry out coups on the whimsy of generals and engage in battles over trifles with those of neighbouring countries but not responsibly protect the Government House or international airport is sheer farce. That government agencies have been forced to negotiate and cut their losses rather than insist that the law be enforced is dangerous folly. And that the senior judiciary, which through a succession of highly politicised judgments has played a major part in contributing to the current mess has nothing useful to contribute when lives are at stake and the country is in greatest need of intelligent guidance is altogether shameful.

Peaceful protest is not only a part of democratic process; it is integral to it. But the rallies and blockades in Bangkok of recent days, weeks and months have not been peaceful. Nor can they properly be called protests at all, as they are not merely demonstrations of a wish, but acts aimed at achieving goals at all costs. And the costs to Thailand have already been very high. They will get higher, and be felt in terms of the lives and liberties of all people in the country if they are not brought to an end. All people in Thailand have a right to oppose this ultra-conservative project for state dominance at their expense.'

[BSJ]

I believe the way PAD are protesting is wrong. Occupying government offices, taking over a TV station and blocking an International airport is very different to camping on the road outside government house or rallying in a park. No government should allow there things that are happening now to occur in the first place.

But it is what it is and the International community will look at LOS in a very different way in the future. Although it isn't one, the term "Banana Republic" is undoubtedly being bandied around already!

[Pierrot]

Unfortunately the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point!!!

Brit, you are a top bloke on ThaiVisa and a gentleman, but we disagree about violence. I agree the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point. But PAD has been almost perfectly nonviolent. You seem to have been calling for weeks or years now for violent solution to this nearly perfectly peaceful protest. All of you who call for violence in Thailand have a double standard if you expect the honorable opposition to stand by and be slaughtered like the faithful Indians who followed Gandhi. This is not India in 1939. Takin's goons killed in cold blood in Chiang Mai this month, so the possible scaring away of armed policeman is simply an episode of the Keystone Cops. We have probably seen far more violence at a rock concert, than PAD has done against the bloody violent thugs who are on Taksin's side.

You cannot be serious.I have always respected your fairness and balance, but this is absurd.In all seriousness it's a losing game to try and distinguish between rival sets of street thugs.I have no doubt there are some UDD people in this category.Don't forget also -so far- the UDD rallies have been models of restraint.Of course one recognises that there are many good natured and rightly outraged PAD members, but at the same time there is a disgusting number of violent thugs.

I loathe the PAD leadership,which has disgraced the country - far worse than Thaksin, but never call for violence.Indeed I sincerely regret violence on all sides.

Incidentally you should learn some history.Gandhi's followers were never slaughtered in the independence struggle.That's because the colonial masters were the British who despite their hypocrisy and racialism were capable of being shamed, possessors of a basic decency.Imagine if the colonial masters had been the Japanese or Germans (or French for that matter).

100% with you.

Come on PB, you can't be serious !?

[flanker]

What does PAD really want?

The idea that only 30% of parliament seats are elected by popular vote and the rest be appointed by "intelligent people" (obviously them) is ridiculous and unrealistic to the point of absurdity.

What international institution would respect Thailand as a Democracy if such idiotic system was implemented? Why are they 'intelligent' and everyone else is 'dumb'? at least a military dictatorship is an honest non-democracy. Why does PAD use the word "Democracy" in their title since they are obviously against it?

maybe PAD is just trying to get the military to rule the country again like they used too, remember when the military ran the country they would appoint people to all these technocratic positions that is the Government.. and the guy that runs PAD is a former military general!

[bulmercke]

Nothing More Than a Criminal Gang

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 11/29/2008 11:28:00 PM

Reuters:

The assault by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) YESTERDAY was swift and savage, a head-on charge by a convoy of vehicles speeding down the wrong side of an expressway into scores of unarmed police.

As the terrified officers fled, some of them jumping through the open door of accelerating police vans, wild-eyed young men burst from the PAD vehicles, attacking with sling shots, fireworks, iron bars and wooden stakes.

The onslaught lasted no more than 15 seconds but left the five-lane highway, the main access route to Bangkok's besieged Suvarnabhumi airport, littered with broken glass and discarded police helmets and truncheons.

The police, who have orders not to retaliate against a movement backed by Bangkok's establishment grandees, had virtually no warning.

'The yellow people are coming,' one officer shouted, turning to run as the PAD vanguard, a large sound-truck blaring out anti-government vitriol, careered round the bend of the expressway exit.

[hawker9000]

But PAD has been almost perfectly nonviolent.

...The final straw for me was watching armed PAD gunmen, gunning down people in the streets last week near Don Muang Airport...

In my book, they've lost all credibility in the "Peaceful" category.

"Gunning down people in the streets"??? That hyperbole evokes images of saber-wielding cavalry slaughtering the helpless mob in Dr. Zhivago, or Nazis cleaning out the Warsaw ghetto. You've been watching too many movies, my friend... Talk like this helps no one, either to understand what's actually taking place, or cultivate a climate that might lead to an intelligent discussion of solutions. It's a bit presumptuous to declare what isn't credible to you, and then declare what's "in your book"...

[Crushdepth]

Koo dear, don't you remember when the King met with ALL the high court judges,

and asked then to do their duty for the country properly and without favor.

If that isn't an assignment by the King I don't know what is.

That was a key moment when the courts knew they finally had the backing they needed to start dishing out justice to politicians. Politicians such as Thaksin were stunned to start receiving 'guilty' verdicts (imagine that?!?). Their operating environment has changed, and it is going to take them a while to get used to it. Expect a few more burned fingers while they learn.

Edited November 30, 2008 by Crushdepth

[fauxie]

Nothing More Than a Criminal Gang

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 11/29/2008 11:28:00 PM

Reuters:

The assault by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) YESTERDAY was swift and savage, a head-on charge by a convoy of vehicles speeding down the wrong side of an expressway into scores of unarmed police.

As the terrified officers fled, some of them jumping through the open door of accelerating police vans, wild-eyed young men burst from the PAD vehicles, attacking with sling shots, fireworks, iron bars and wooden stakes.

The onslaught lasted no more than 15 seconds but left the five-lane highway, the main access route to Bangkok's besieged Suvarnabhumi airport, littered with broken glass and discarded police helmets and truncheons.

The police, who have orders not to retaliate against a movement backed by Bangkok's establishment grandees, had virtually no warning.

'The yellow people are coming,' one officer shouted, turning to run as the PAD vanguard, a large sound-truck blaring out anti-government vitriol, careered round the bend of the expressway exit.

Again, those who have been stressing how non-violent the PAD protesters have been, please tell me what you make of this. Lies? Exaggeration? Would you be willing to concede that if the above report is true that it most certainly was a violent action? I'm struggling to see how anyone can continue to maintain that the PAD are and have been non-violent and non-threatening. It simply flies in the face of all the evidence.

[Ulysses G.]

Nevertheless, I back "necessary force" using common western methods of riot control (which we have yet to see here); non-lethal but persuasive. It appears the Thai police and military have an "all or near'nothing" approach to this problem.

Vexing indeed.

I think that the problem is there are way too many protestors to use the non-violent methods that you are talking about. The police have to convince them to move using their own power and they refuse to do it. I’m afraid that violence might be necessary in this case. Well, they deserve a good butt-kicking anyway!

[siam4ever]

Here's a snippet from the latest Asian Human Rights Commission on PAD:

"The takeover of the main international airport in Bangkok by protestors going under the banner of the People's Alliance for Democracy is a watershed moment for democracy and the rule of law in Thailand. It follows some months of increasingly aggressive strategies to get the current government to resign and to block it from making amendments to the 2008 Constitution, which was prepared under the watch of the 2006 military coup leaders and their supporters and pushed through via a deeply flawed referendum.

Alliance members have since August gone from merely occupying spaces like roads and parks to occupying public buildings, in particular, the Government House. Organised armed "guards" have defended their positions both from opponents and from state security personnel. They have also illegally obtained and openly carried an array of manufactured and homemade weapons, including guns from caches that had reportedly been kept in the government premises. They have illegally detained other citizens. They have vandalised, destroyed and stolen public and private property. In the last day or two it has been reported that in addition to occupying the Suvarnabumi airport they have seized busses, and have refused to allow police into the airport to investigate explosions there during the night. They are now reportedly preparing for the latest phase in the "final battle", which is supposedly being instigated under codenames like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the cities on which the United States military dropped nuclear bombs at the close of World War Two.

The alliance has exhibited a number of features that from past lessons of Thailand and other countries around the world pose grave dangers to the future of the country's imperilled democracy. Of these, the following can be said.

1. They spring from a far-right ideology that has for decades driven successive military-bureaucratic administrations in Thailand, which dramatic changes to political and social life of the last two decades have increasingly threatened.

2. Their coordinated attacks and actions on the pretext of self-defence and national interest are designed to cause a widespread feeling of insecurity and uncertainty and allow reactionary elite forces to push Thailand back to a 1980s model of "half-sail" semi-elected government.

3. The alliance leaders have occupied the public space and forced people throughout Thailand to either take sides for or against them, or to opt out completely, thus alienating millions of people and denying them the opportunity to have a say on the key political and social questions of their time.

Some commentators and opponents of the alliance have described its agenda as fascist. This is not an exaggeration. Experience shows that the types of systemic changes and regimes that follow such movements, although they may not describe themselves as fascist, have fascist qualities. Indeed, successive dictatorships in Thailand's modern history appreciated, expressed and used many fascist symbols and policies, and the residue of these can be found in the language and behaviour of the alliance leaders today.

If these events are allowed to continue, and it is self-evident that they are being allowed, they will effectively undo everything that was done to build a culture of democratic rights and participation in public life in Thailand during the 1990s. The damage that they are now in a position to effect will surpass anything of that caused by the ousted government of Thaksin Shinawatra, and could even provoke a greater disaster than the 2006 coup and scrapping of the 1997 Constitution. Whatever institutional and legal gains were made in the last decade or two will be undone.

Already, the criminal justice system of Thailand has been reduced to an utter joke, its agencies and personnel either unable or unwilling to intervene effectively to protect public property and people's lives, or even prosecute wrongdoers. That the security forces can carry out coups on the whimsy of generals and engage in battles over trifles with those of neighbouring countries but not responsibly protect the Government House or international airport is sheer farce. That government agencies have been forced to negotiate and cut their losses rather than insist that the law be enforced is dangerous folly. And that the senior judiciary, which through a succession of highly politicised judgments has played a major part in contributing to the current mess has nothing useful to contribute when lives are at stake and the country is in greatest need of intelligent guidance is altogether shameful.

Peaceful protest is not only a part of democratic process; it is integral to it. But the rallies and blockades in Bangkok of recent days, weeks and months have not been peaceful. Nor can they properly be called protests at all, as they are not merely demonstrations of a wish, but acts aimed at achieving goals at all costs. And the costs to Thailand have already been very high. They will get higher, and be felt in terms of the lives and liberties of all people in the country if they are not brought to an end. All people in Thailand have a right to oppose this ultra-conservative project for state dominance at their expense."

[nickynomates]

I have every confidence in the Police to handle this situation.

Edited November 30, 2008 by nickynomates

[Ulysses G.]

Some commentators and opponents of the alliance have described its agenda as fascist. This is not an exaggeration. Experience shows that the types of systemic changes and regimes that follow such movements, although they may not describe themselves as fascist, have fascist qualities. Indeed, successive dictatorships in Thailand's modern history appreciated, expressed and used many fascist symbols and policies, and the residue of these can be found in the language and behaviour of the alliance leaders today.

Do not support the Yellow Fascists!

[hawker9000]

Nothing More Than a Criminal Gang

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 11/29/2008 11:28:00 PM

Reuters:

The assault by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) YESTERDAY was swift and savage, a head-on charge by a convoy of vehicles speeding down the wrong side of an expressway into scores of unarmed police.

As the terrified officers fled, some of them jumping through the open door of accelerating police vans, wild-eyed young men burst from the PAD vehicles, attacking with sling shots, fireworks, iron bars and wooden stakes.

The onslaught lasted no more than 15 seconds but left the five-lane highway, the main access route to Bangkok's besieged Suvarnabhumi airport, littered with broken glass and discarded police helmets and truncheons.

The police, who have orders not to retaliate against a movement backed by Bangkok's establishment grandees, had virtually no warning.

'The yellow people are coming,' one officer shouted, turning to run as the PAD vanguard, a large sound-truck blaring out anti-government vitriol, careered round the bend of the expressway exit.

Again, those who have been stressing how non-violent the PAD protesters have been, please tell me what you make of this. Lies? Exaggeration? Would you be willing to concede that if the above report is true that it most certainly was a violent action? I'm struggling to see how anyone can continue to maintain that the PAD are and have been non-violent and non-threatening. It simply flies in the face of all the evidence.

OK - it sounds like angry farmers with pitchforks and factory workers with hammers & crowbars. Determined not to be intimidated by police & other govt security forces perhaps, but not exactly a blood-crazed killing machine bound for armageddon... I'm truly non-partisan to all this, but all this talk of these brutal PAD death-squads is making me wonder...

[PeaceBlondie]

Unfortunately the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point!!!

Brit, you are a top bloke on ThaiVisa and a gentleman, but we disagree about violence. I agree the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point. But PAD has been almost perfectly nonviolent. You seem to have been calling for weeks or years now for violent solution to this nearly perfectly peaceful protest. All of you who call for violence in Thailand have a double standard if you expect the honorable opposition to stand by and be slaughtered like the faithful Indians who followed Gandhi. This is not India in 1939. Takin's goons killed in cold blood in Chiang Mai this month, so the possible scaring away of armed policeman is simply an episode of the Keystone Cops. We have probably seen far more violence at a rock concert, than PAD has done against the bloody violent thugs who are on Taksin's side.

You cannot be serious.I have always respected your fairness and balance, but this is absurd.In all seriousness it's a losing game to try and distinguish between rival sets of street thugs.I have no doubt there are some UDD people in this category.Don't forget also -so far- the UDD rallies have been models of restraint.Of course one recognises that there are many good natured and rightly outraged PAD members, but at the same time there is a disgusting number of violent thugs.

I loathe the PAD leadership,which has disgraced the country - far worse than Thaksin, but never call for violence.Indeed I sincerely regret violence on all sides.

Incidentally you should learn some history.Gandhi's followers were never slaughtered in the independence struggle.That's because the colonial masters were the British who despite their hypocrisy and racialism were capable of being shamed, possessors of a basic decency.Imagine if the colonial masters had been the Japanese or Germans (or French for that matter).

I am serious. I personally and consistently condemn the use of violence by everybody, everywhere, always, regardless.

Maybe I have not learned quite enough of the history of the use of nonviolence and civil disobedience, but I have taught the subject. I kindly suggest that you should learn some history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience Gandhi's followers surely were slaughtered, in a massacre. Even the British soldiers in India used violence against Indians. Learn your British history, please. But yes, the Japanese and others were far more barbaric. I loathe the PAD leadership, too. Of course, it is no big deal that rallies are peaceful, if the police keep out the rivals.

Have a good day. Pray for peace. Work for peace. Love your enemies.

[bulmercke]

Letter from PAD Supporter to Clarify Rally

โดย ASTVผู้จัดการออนไลน์ 29 พฤศจิกายน 2551 13:26 น. - MANAGER ONLINE -

On November 26, a young woman, dressed in a yellow shirt, was seen walking around the PAD rally site at Suvarnabhumi Airport, distributing a message in English to help clarify the PAD rally.

This is to clarify the situation here in Thailand as I believe the foreign press have formed the conclusion that the PAD has little chance of winning this final battle to topple the Nominee Government of Somchai Wongsawat, the brother-in-law of former PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

Before I say anything else, I'd like to stress here the the PAD's policy is to use ONLY peaceful means and we have proved our intention by using only reason for the last six months. However, the continuous and nearly daily violence and murderous acts committed against us have come from either the Government, or its representatives, the red-shirted United Frong of Democracy against Dictatorship, which are trying everything in their power to pave the way for the return of Thaksin Shinawatra to become the first President of Thailand.

The aim of the PAD is to rebuild a country based on integrity, honesty, freedom from corruption and fairness from all Thais: all this together with the absolute determination to maintain and honour the Monarchy. We have the most wonderful and exceptional King who has reigned over his people with wisdom and love as the rest of the world is well aware.

Practically the whole of Thailand from all walks of life has converged onto Bangkok to support the PAD. We are not being paid to be here to use violence to get our way. We are not here to support a handful of corrupt politicians serving only one man who wants to divide our country. But we are here by choice, we are here to share an ideal, we are here to realize our goal which is to rebuild our country into a better place for the 60-odd million citizens. It's actually not a question of "winning or losing" -- it's the reality of achieving what is good and right for our country -- Thailand.

[hammered]

Unfortunately the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point!!!

Brit, you are a top bloke on ThaiVisa and a gentleman, but we disagree about violence. I agree the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point. But PAD has been almost perfectly nonviolent. You seem to have been calling for weeks or years now for violent solution to this nearly perfectly peaceful protest. All of you who call for violence in Thailand have a double standard if you expect the honorable opposition to stand by and be slaughtered like the faithful Indians who followed Gandhi. This is not India in 1939. Takin's goons killed in cold blood in Chiang Mai this month, so the possible scaring away of armed policeman is simply an episode of the Keystone Cops. We have probably seen far more violence at a rock concert, than PAD has done against the bloody violent thugs who are on Taksin's side.

You cannot be serious.I have always respected your fairness and balance, but this is absurd.In all seriousness it's a losing game to try and distinguish between rival sets of street thugs.I have no doubt there are some UDD people in this category.Don't forget also -so far- the UDD rallies have been models of restraint.Of course one recognises that there are many good natured and rightly outraged PAD members, but at the same time there is a disgusting number of violent thugs.

I loathe the PAD leadership,which has disgraced the country - far worse than Thaksin, but never call for violence.Indeed I sincerely regret violence on all sides.

Incidentally you should learn some history.Gandhi's followers were never slaughtered in the independence struggle.That's because the colonial masters were the British who despite their hypocrisy and racialism were capable of being shamed, possessors of a basic decency.Imagine if the colonial masters had been the Japanese or Germans (or French for that matter).

YH while not wanting to get into a study on comparative street violence, it does have to be said that the red side/UDD/province defence groups have not exactly been a model of restraint at their rallies: Udon, Bangkok in the famous long march before the clash, and of course Chiang Mai this week. There are also lesser reported incidents of attacks on Santi Asoke buildings by the red side.

One thing that occasionally gets mentioned on the international reports is that consdiering th level of division, hatred, vitriol etc that the actual casualty figures remain relatively low, which we should be thankful for although the bomb attacks seem to be raising this right now.

[madi]

I have every confidence in the Police to handle this situation.

[/quote

Homer needs to come here and rung the show.

Just some quick thoughts.

Maybe we have a power vacuum causing this or at least adding to the trouble.

While most of the generals, but not all would back the red, the vast majority of the foot solders back the red.

The police too are split.

This is not a joke and the disagreements are real and profound.

Joking about this would make you feel bad if you woke up to Find a thousand dead in a fight in the future.

If Thailand rejects democracy it will for sure be hit with huge trade tariffs from nations.

The economy is imploding.

I hope for the best but fear from the worst.

[Koo82]

this is aimed at the millions of people travelling around the world and at business people who need to travel for it . I said it before ... the government house .. no problem ... that is a reasonable place to go for action airports/harbours/business centres ... out of the question

PAD has come to the extreme level so we think the Government House is ok for them to occupy. In fact NO.

[RenzoInOz]

Nothing More Than a Criminal Gang

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 11/29/2008 11:28:00 PM

Reuters:

The assault by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) YESTERDAY was swift and savage, a head-on charge by a convoy of vehicles speeding down the wrong side of an expressway into scores of unarmed police.

As the terrified officers fled, some of them jumping through the open door of accelerating police vans, wild-eyed young men burst from the PAD vehicles, attacking with sling shots, fireworks, iron bars and wooden stakes.

The onslaught lasted no more than 15 seconds but left the five-lane highway, the main access route to Bangkok's besieged Suvarnabhumi airport, littered with broken glass and discarded police helmets and truncheons.

The police, who have orders not to retaliate against a movement backed by Bangkok's establishment grandees, had virtually no warning.

'The yellow people are coming,' one officer shouted, turning to run as the PAD vanguard, a large sound-truck blaring out anti-government vitriol, careered round the bend of the expressway exit.

Attacked with weapons, but "not to retaliate". It's official. PAD now controls Thailand and is above the law.

For God's sake....

[Ricardo]

Some commentators and opponents of the alliance have described its agenda as fascist. This is not an exaggeration. Experience shows that the types of systemic changes and regimes that follow such movements, although they may not describe themselves as fascist, have fascist qualities. Indeed, successive dictatorships in Thailand's modern history appreciated, expressed and used many fascist symbols and policies, and the residue of these can be found in the language and behaviour of the alliance leaders today.

Do not support the Yellow Fascists!

Or Thaksin's Red Fascists.

None of this is worth the spilling of blood.

Time for the army to press the 'Restart' button.

[jbowman1993]

Unfortunately the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point!!!

Brit, you are a top bloke on ThaiVisa and a gentleman, but we disagree about violence. I agree the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point. But PAD has been almost perfectly nonviolent. You seem to have been calling for weeks or years now for violent solution to this nearly perfectly peaceful protest. All of you who call for violence in Thailand have a double standard if you expect the honorable opposition to stand by and be slaughtered like the faithful Indians who followed Gandhi. This is not India in 1939. Takin's goons killed in cold blood in Chiang Mai this month, so the possible scaring away of armed policeman is simply an episode of the Keystone Cops. We have probably seen far more violence at a rock concert, than PAD has done against the bloody violent thugs who are on Taksin's side.

You cannot be serious.I have always respected your fairness and balance, but this is absurd.In all seriousness it's a losing game to try and distinguish between rival sets of street thugs.I have no doubt there are some UDD people in this category.Don't forget also -so far- the UDD rallies have been models of restraint.Of course one recognises that there are many good natured and rightly outraged PAD members, but at the same time there is a disgusting number of violent thugs.

I loathe the PAD leadership,which has disgraced the country - far worse than Thaksin, but never call for violence.Indeed I sincerely regret violence on all sides.

Incidentally you should learn some history.Gandhi's followers were never slaughtered in the independence struggle.That's because the colonial masters were the British who despite their hypocrisy and racialism were capable of being shamed, possessors of a basic decency.Imagine if the colonial masters had been the Japanese or Germans (or French for that matter).

YH while not wanting to get into a study on comparative street violence, it does have to be said that the red side/UDD/province defence groups have not exactly been a model of restraint at their rallies: Udon, Bangkok in the famous long march before the clash, and of course Chiang Mai this week. There are also lesser reported incidents of attacks on Santi Asoke buildings by the red side.

One thing that occasionally gets mentioned on the international reports is that consdiering th level of division, hatred, vitriol etc that the actual casualty figures remain relatively low, which we should be thankful for although the bomb attacks seem to be raising this right now.

One things that needs to be mentioned is that the "Bomb attacks" are decidedly one way. Haven't seen a PAD Granny hurling an M79 at the UDD yet. The PAD has also not unveiled their "Tossing a hand grenade dance".

That being said, the ineptness of the Thai police to handle this situation is amazing. Give me 100 guys, 10 fire trucks with hoses, and body armor, and I'll have that airport cleared out in an hour.

[younghusband]

Unfortunately the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point!!!

Brit, you are a top bloke on ThaiVisa and a gentleman, but we disagree about violence. I agree the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point. But PAD has been almost perfectly nonviolent. You seem to have been calling for weeks or years now for violent solution to this nearly perfectly peaceful protest. All of you who call for violence in Thailand have a double standard if you expect the honorable opposition to stand by and be slaughtered like the faithful Indians who followed Gandhi. This is not India in 1939. Takin's goons killed in cold blood in Chiang Mai this month, so the possible scaring away of armed policeman is simply an episode of the Keystone Cops. We have probably seen far more violence at a rock concert, than PAD has done against the bloody violent thugs who are on Taksin's side.

You cannot be serious.I have always respected your fairness and balance, but this is absurd.In all seriousness it's a losing game to try and distinguish between rival sets of street thugs.I have no doubt there are some UDD people in this category.Don't forget also -so far- the UDD rallies have been models of restraint.Of course one recognises that there are many good natured and rightly outraged PAD members, but at the same time there is a disgusting number of violent thugs.

I loathe the PAD leadership,which has disgraced the country - far worse than Thaksin, but never call for violence.Indeed I sincerely regret violence on all sides.

Incidentally you should learn some history.Gandhi's followers were never slaughtered in the independence struggle.That's because the colonial masters were the British who despite their hypocrisy and racialism were capable of being shamed, possessors of a basic decency.Imagine if the colonial masters had been the Japanese or Germans (or French for that matter).

I am serious. I personally and consistently condemn the use of violence by everybody, everywhere, always, regardless.

Maybe I have not learned quite enough of the history of the use of nonviolence and civil disobedience, but I have taught the subject. I kindly suggest that you should learn some history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience Gandhi's followers surely were slaughtered, in a massacre. Even the British soldiers in India used violence against Indians. Learn your British history, please. But yes, the Japanese and others were far more barbaric. I loathe the PAD leadership, too. Of course, it is no big deal that rallies are peaceful, if the police keep out the rivals.

Have a good day. Pray for peace. Work for peace. Love your enemies.

You don't even attempt to answer my points.

It's a digression but perhaps you would indicate -since you have taught the subject of nonviolence- where and when Gandhi's followers were massacred by the British.It's relevant because your grasp of historical facts seems less than rigorous.No serious commentator quotes Wikipedia incidentally.

Well at least we can agree on the loathsome nature of the PAD leadership.

[bulmercke]

Chamlong Urges Protesters to Remain Patient until Dec 2 - THAILAND OUTLOOK - (MANAGER ONLINE) -

UPDATE : 30 November 2008

PAD core leader Chamlong Srimuang said the bomb attacks against the PAD last night at four spots are attempts to create chaos by the government to try to escape the political parties dissolution cases.

At 6.25 am, Chamlong took the PAD stage at Government House and said four M-79 bomb attacks were staged against the PAD at various spots. He said the PAD anticipated the attacks but it happened before the time the PAD had set to close the stage and step up security.

Chamlong said reports by the Constitution Court that it will deliver its ruling on the dissolution of the People Power, Chart Thai and Matchimathipataya parties on December 2 makes the government have to try to get out of the situation. He added that the PAD rally has been successful in allowing the judicial system to move forward.

Chamlong said the protesters must continue their vigil at four main spots, which are the ASTV office, Government House, Don Muang Airport and Suvarnabhumi Airport until the ruling is delivered on December 2, when he believes the government will have to leave power and Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat and executives of the People Power Party will be banned from politics for five years.

Chamlong said from now on, PAD volunteer guards will monitor the movement of the police and military officers who are taking care of security for the PAD rally sites to make sure they are doing their duty.

[toptuan]

"Gunning down people in the streets"??? That hyperbole evokes images of saber-wielding cavalry slaughtering the helpless mob in Dr. Zhivago, or Nazis cleaning out the Warsaw ghetto. You've been watching too many movies, my friend... Talk like this helps no one, either to understand what's actually taking place, or cultivate a climate that might lead to an intelligent discussion of solutions. It's a bit presumptuous to declare what isn't credible to you, and then declare what's "in your book"...

Apparently you missed the evidence. Last week's clash with yellow-arm-banded PAD people calculatedly pointing and shooting weapons directly into the melee in the street is there on YouTube for all to see. Only in your rebuttal did you take it to the extreme. You said it, I didn't, Mr. Hyperbole, er, Hawker.

[younghusband]

Unfortunately the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point!!!

Brit, you are a top bloke on ThaiVisa and a gentleman, but we disagree about violence. I agree the PAD aren't exactly peaceful, so Tropo does have a point. But PAD has been almost perfectly nonviolent. You seem to have been calling for weeks or years now for violent solution to this nearly perfectly peaceful protest. All of you who call for violence in Thailand have a double standard if you expect the honorable opposition to stand by and be slaughtered like the faithful Indians who followed Gandhi. This is not India in 1939. Takin's goons killed in cold blood in Chiang Mai this month, so the possible scaring away of armed policeman is simply an episode of the Keystone Cops. We have probably seen far more violence at a rock concert, than PAD has done against the bloody violent thugs who are on Taksin's side.

You cannot be serious.I have always respected your fairness and balance, but this is absurd.In all seriousness it's a losing game to try and distinguish between rival sets of street thugs.I have no doubt there are some UDD people in this category.Don't forget also -so far- the UDD rallies have been models of restraint.Of course one recognises that there are many good natured and rightly outraged PAD members, but at the same time there is a disgusting number of violent thugs.

I loathe the PAD leadership,which has disgraced the country - far worse than Thaksin, but never call for violence.Indeed I sincerely regret violence on all sides.

Incidentally you should learn some history.Gandhi's followers were never slaughtered in the independence struggle.That's because the colonial masters were the British who despite their hypocrisy and racialism were capable of being shamed, possessors of a basic decency.Imagine if the colonial masters had been the Japanese or Germans (or French for that matter).

YH while not wanting to get into a study on comparative street violence, it does have to be said that the red side/UDD/province defence groups have not exactly been a model of restraint at their rallies: Udon, Bangkok in the famous long march before the clash, and of course Chiang Mai this week. There are also lesser reported incidents of attacks on Santi Asoke buildings by the red side.

One thing that occasionally gets mentioned on the international reports is that consdiering th level of division, hatred, vitriol etc that the actual casualty figures remain relatively low, which we should be thankful for although the bomb attacks seem to be raising this right now.

Hammered, I fully agree.That's why you may I have noted I never comment or get involved in discussion of street thuggery.