P A D -bkk Protesters Aim To ‘re-educate’ Rural Thais

[Nampeung]

Exactly Lao Po, the current government does not supply sufficient education for children, maybe another reason why you might look at some of the PAD politics to educate (not indoctrinate) all of Thailand's poulation. Then the whole population would have a choice in who to vote for

You just shot yourself in the foot

Edited December 2, 2008 by Nampeung

[Thaddeus]

I can't wait for Apple Computer to unveil the iPad, enough storage capacity for months of video footage, but only one song.

[soundman]

Offtopic posts and pesonal accusations that have nothing to do with the thread have been removed.

Get it back on track people.

[barryjohnson]

I am old enough to remember the good old days staying at the Strand in Rangoon. Burma was rich and prosperous filled with trade with the British, India, SE Asia and China. Burma was way ahead of Siam, set toward being a SE Asia supper power complimented with rich natural resources.

However one day, Burma decided to close its door and throw away the key. How very sad. I was one of those last ex-pat to leave, after instruction from H.O. to pack up and close our small but profitable business. I still return to Burma from time to time to visit old friends, local Burmese who worked for me. The sight I assure you, is not very pleasent.

I hope closing Thailand airport is not the first step toward the same path Burma have gone. I hope the Thai people are more sensible.

[jayjayjayjay]

Has anyone seriously thought about Sondhi being a communist.

Just take maybe a minute to see how the idea melts into available situation and his mindset and see what picture you come up with.

Apologies if it gives you nightmares.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2373248

[bkk4life]

"Re-educate" might probably not have been the appropriate translation...This forum is supposed to be associated with "educated" people, but most the people posting seem to take side with either PAD or this pseudo elected government. But maybe it's time for everybody to realize that it's just a fight for power! Sondhi isn't fighting for the sake of the thai people but for his own interest! Eventhough I was supportive of his action in 92, Chamlong has always been doing the same!

I think it's true that thais (and not only from the North, Isaan) need a better level of education so they can developpe a critical mind and stop being manipulated by evil-minded politicians, militaries, etc. And by the way, since when TV is education??

What's happening now might just be the first step of a bigger revolution of the thai society and the end of the "Nation, Religion, King" system. I'm not saying that's what thai people need. I try not to have a partisan opinion and it seems to me that some powerful individuals are just trying to put themselves in the position of monopolize the political power...None of the protagonist of the actual crisis could bring any good to the thai society that's the only thing I'm sure!

[animatic]

"If they win what they have dubbed their “final battle,” Bangkok-based People’s Alliance for Democracy members say they will start a campaign to tell “the truth” to the country’s rural majority..."

Hmmm. Maybe they should have thought of that BEFORE they went in to the airports, holding the country hostage, and eliminating any chance of support they could have from the rural majority.

They DID try that many times,

but TRT and PPP controled mobs broke up the rally's QUITE violently...

Go read up on it.

Hense they were forced to use other measures.

Not all of which I can agree with.

.

Did I say to do it by rallying? There's plenty of ways of educating the rural population that doesn't involve confrontation. And "educating" shouldn't just mean telling them why they should be against the PPP, but also why they should be FOR the Democrats, ie. let them know how you're going to make their lives better.

PPP didn't even exist then...

Having a stage and talking publicly was enough to get a beating back then,

if you disagreed with Thaksin's programs. Dems, PAD or ANY disenting voices.

Simple as that. Go read up on it.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of education by TV, print, radio, and the internet.

Besides, just because their message wasn't getting through by peaceful means doesn't give them any right to take over an airport and demonize those who don't agree with them. I thought the PAD were supposed to be the "educated" ones. Why don't they lead by example?

I think that their radical actions have been instigated by increasingly violent attacks from exterior forces.

This trajectory didn't match their earlier rise and then voluntary backing off of the earlier version.

When Thaksin's vow to exit the political field proved a lie, they returned. And the violence against them was much greater.

This is an observation, and not a denfense of actions.

Nothing like attacks causing death and dismemberment to raise the anti in a groups methods.

[animatic]

Re- educate............................... Democracy is not about re-education but one person, one vote, plus freedom of speech without retribution..............!!!!!

Well one out of two wasn't enough and here we are....

[animatic]

That's for the offer. Rural Thais already have compulsary free education (6 years) provided by the state. Thanks anyway.

1. Is that just rural Thai or ALL Thai ?

2. 6 years is not enough; at least 4 to 6 years extra is needed to boost the population of the country in education.

3. And what about the quality of the education ? Which country can it be compared with ?

4. Do they teach at least one foreign language ?

I could go on...

LaoPo

Ah, and a rare instance where we both agree 100%!

Yes not enough by all measurements.

Can you imagine that a 6th grade education prepares anyone to understand,

the nicities of jurisprudence in Potjamin's case,

let alone the Thai/Burma Ex/Im Bank loan for telecom purchases counter to Moody's

international loan ratings, and the rules on exectutive interferance and such.

Even many university grads are a bit fuzzy on all this..

Not meaning they shouldn't vote etc,

but that Thaksin's ethics violations were bad in a convoluted way,.

not a simple 10% skim on each bag of rice put on the truck.

In between these extremes is a big ol' complicated world.

[dtarasin]

"If they win what they have dubbed their “final battle,” Bangkok-based People’s Alliance for Democracy members say they will start a campaign to tell “the truth” to the country’s rural majority..."

Hmmm. Maybe they should have thought of that BEFORE they went in to the airports, holding the country hostage, and eliminating any chance of support they could have from the rural majority.

They DID try that many times,

but TRT and PPP controled mobs broke up the rally's QUITE violently...

Go read up on it.

Hense they were forced to use other measures.

Not all of which I can agree with.

.

Did I say to do it by rallying? There's plenty of ways of educating the rural population that doesn't involve confrontation. And "educating" shouldn't just mean telling them why they should be against the PPP, but also why they should be FOR the Democrats, ie. let them know how you're going to make their lives better.

PPP didn't even exist then...

Having a stage and talking publicly was enough to get a beating back then,

if you disagreed with Thaksin's programs. Dems, PAD or ANY disenting voices.

Simple as that. Go read up on it.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of education by TV, print, radio, and the internet.

Besides, just because their message wasn't getting through by peaceful means doesn't give them any right to take over an airport and demonize those who don't agree with them. I thought the PAD were supposed to be the "educated" ones. Why don't they lead by example?

I think that their radical actions have been instigated by increasingly violent attacks from exterior forces.

This trajectory didn't match their earlier rise and then voluntary backing off of the earlier version.

When Thaksin's vow to exit the political field proved a lie, they returned. And the violence against them was much greater.

This is an observation, and not a denfense of actions.

Nothing like attacks causing death and dismemberment to raise the anti in a groups methods.

Fair enough. And I'd like to say that animatic is one of the more reasonable and balanced voices I've seen so far around here.

I do agree that their radical actions were a reaction as opposed to being spontaneous, BUT, seeing as the PAD are always touting themselves as the "educated" and "peaceful" voices of this argument, they should lead by example. It is the responsibility of the educated to move the political discourse with empathy and prudence.

Civility, not hostility, is the only way to solve this. And one DOESN'T blame others as the cause for one's actions. If the PAD's actions can be so easily manipulated by outside forces, how can they be strong enough to lead?

[animatic]

KireB wrote

Apparently there are a lot of people who think that vote buying and selling by poor, often uneducated people, is a normal thing.

It surprises me that election-fraud is a kind of accepted.

I was just curious what election in thailand during the last 20 or 30 years (40 opr 50) did vote buying not occur? and when did the people suddenly decide that NOW, this last election it should be stopped ?

Just curious

I would say ALL of them.

And a question to the question.

When is it considered too early to say:

'Enough is enough we must reduce corruption now'?

And what makes you think that a guy like Sondhi , who was best buddy with the Kaiser of corruption Thaksin not so long ago , who defaulted on several tens of million of US$ of bonds , who has built a business empire in Thailand , has even an ounce of credibility when it comes to fighting corruption ?

Maybe being burned by Thaksin's corruption changed his mind?

I think he would still be doing well if the playing field of business

had not been so jiggered by Thaksin's corruption.

Thaksin took out a competitor rather nastily,

and now that action is coming back to get him.

SOME people do learn over time.

[VegasVic]

Re- educate............................... Democracy is not about re-education but one person, one vote, plus freedom of speech without retribution..............!!!!!

PAD reeducation of the poor rual thai? Sounds like PAD=Joe Stalin or Pol Pot Actually I think the rural Thai citizens have a great deal to teach the PAD, and if there is a free and fair election as a result of this debacle I think the rural Thais will send a clear message as to how they really feel about the PAD Methinks this excercise in insanity purpotrated by the PAD will bring Thaksin back to power much sooner than anything the PPP could have ever done! If I was a PAD supporter and I dared travel outside the BKK metro area, I would keep my political beliefs very close to my vest

[Danton]

KireB wrote

Apparently there are a lot of people who think that vote buying and selling by poor, often uneducated people, is a normal thing.

It surprises me that election-fraud is a kind of accepted.

I was just curious what election in thailand during the last 20 or 30 years (40 opr 50) did vote buying not occur? and when did the people suddenly decide that NOW, this last election it should be stopped ?

Just curious

I would say ALL of them.

And a question to the question.

When is it considered too early to say:

'Enough is enough we must reduce corruption now'?

And what makes you think that a guy like Sondhi , who was best buddy with the Kaiser of corruption Thaksin not so long ago , who defaulted on several tens of million of US$ of bonds , who has built a business empire in Thailand , has even an ounce of credibility when it comes to fighting corruption ?

Maybe being burned by Thaksin's corruption changed his mind?

I think he would still be doing well if the playing field of business

had not been so jiggered by Thaksin's corruption.

Thaksin took out a competitor rather nastily,

and now that action is coming back to get him.

SOME people do learn over time.

Your naiveness honors you , but you might as well keep believing in Santa Calus.

[animatic]

"If they win what they have dubbed their “final battle,” Bangkok-based People’s Alliance for Democracy members say they will start a campaign to tell “the truth” to the country’s rural majority..."

Hmmm. Maybe they should have thought of that BEFORE they went in to the airports, holding the country hostage, and eliminating any chance of support they could have from the rural majority.

They DID try that many times,

but TRT and PPP controled mobs broke up the rally's QUITE violently...

Go read up on it.

Hense they were forced to use other measures.

Not all of which I can agree with.

.

Did I say to do it by rallying? There's plenty of ways of educating the rural population that doesn't involve confrontation. And "educating" shouldn't just mean telling them why they should be against the PPP, but also why they should be FOR the Democrats, ie. let them know how you're going to make their lives better.

PPP didn't even exist then...

Having a stage and talking publicly was enough to get a beating back then,

if you disagreed with Thaksin's programs. Dems, PAD or ANY disenting voices.

Simple as that. Go read up on it.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of education by TV, print, radio, and the internet.

Besides, just because their message wasn't getting through by peaceful means doesn't give them any right to take over an airport and demonize those who don't agree with them. I thought the PAD were supposed to be the "educated" ones. Why don't they lead by example?

I think that their radical actions have been instigated by increasingly violent attacks from exterior forces.

This trajectory didn't match their earlier rise and then voluntary backing off of the earlier version.

When Thaksin's vow to exit the political field proved a lie, they returned. And the violence against them was much greater.

This is an observation, and not a denfense of actions.

Nothing like attacks causing death and dismemberment to raise the anti in a groups methods.

Fair enough. And I'd like to say that animatic is one of the more reasonable and balanced voices I've seen so far around here.

I do agree that their radical actions were a reaction as opposed to being spontaneous, BUT, seeing as the PAD are always touting themselves as the "educated" and "peaceful" voices of this argument, they should lead by example. It is the responsibility of the educated to move the political discourse with empathy and prudence.

Civility, not hostility, is the only way to solve this. And one DOESN'T blame others as the cause for one's actions.

If the PAD's actions can be so easily manipulated by outside forces, how can they be strong enough to lead?

Civility, not hostility, is the only way to solve this. yes yes yes!

I think dropping grenades was not quite the definition of easily MANIPULATED.

I think this is as strong a methode of manipulation as any existing.

Terrorizing them, and fitting the definition of that very well.

In any grouping of say '10,000 peopl'e there WILL be violent members,

anfd those prone to ALWAYS turn the other cheek.

It is a natural division of the human condition.

But one must look at the over all percentages of actions and repeated actions

to determine a true propensity for violence as a group as opposed to a sub group with in a larger group.

This goes for the red shirts of whatever lable, PPP Mp's, and any group taking the field these days.

What percentage makes noise and what percentage makes violent attacks?

And are those attacks aggressive or defensive, but with excesive force?

Nothing is black and white especially in Thailand.

[cmsally]

Has anyone seriously thought about Sondhi being a communist.

Just take maybe a minute to see how the idea melts into available situation and his mindset and see what picture you come up with.

Apologies if it gives you nightmares.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=2373248

My use of the word communism is not exactly in the sense of a proletariat uprising but concentrating on the issues of dictatorship and its associated gremlins.

Interestingly enough Philip Bowring of the International Herald Tribune seems to agree with me. Link probably not allowed here but just do a search for his Dec. 1 article.

[animatic]

KireB wrote

Apparently there are a lot of people who think that vote buying and selling by poor, often uneducated people, is a normal thing.

It surprises me that election-fraud is a kind of accepted.

I was just curious what election in thailand during the last 20 or 30 years (40 opr 50) did vote buying not occur? and when did the people suddenly decide that NOW, this last election it should be stopped ?

Just curious

I would say ALL of them.

And a question to the question.

When is it considered too early to say:

'Enough is enough we must reduce corruption now'?

And what makes you think that a guy like Sondhi , who was best buddy with the Kaiser of corruption Thaksin not so long ago , who defaulted on several tens of million of US$ of bonds , who has built a business empire in Thailand , has even an ounce of credibility when it comes to fighting corruption ?

Maybe being burned by Thaksin's corruption changed his mind?

I think he would still be doing well if the playing field of business

had not been so jiggered by Thaksin's corruption.

Thaksin took out a competitor rather nastily,

and now that action is coming back to get him.

SOME people do learn over time.

Your naiveness honors you , but you might as well keep believing in Santa Calus.

Ah yes, and you see none of what I'm saying, so I must be naive.

Shoot the messenger...

rather than attack me, why not look and question the points.

Their past history is pretty well documented.

Thaksin made sure he defaulted to get rid of a major competitor in two business sectors.

From Sondhi's point of view, pretty unforgivable. But believe what you like.

Slagging me doesn't change history.

[old wanderer]

Fair enough. And I'd like to say that animatic is one of the more reasonable and balanced voices I've seen so far around here.

I do agree that their radical actions were a reaction as opposed to being spontaneous, BUT, seeing as the PAD are always touting themselves as the "educated" and "peaceful" voices of this argument, they should lead by example. It is the responsibility of the educated to move the political discourse with empathy and prudence.

Civility, not hostility, is the only way to solve this. And one DOESN'T blame others as the cause for one's actions. If the PAD's actions can be so easily manipulated by outside forces, how can they be strong enough to lead?

This has been posted numerous times, but one more time. The PAD are not a political party running for office, they simply with to have a government that is without Rampant Corruption, as the Thaskin Clan keep trying to set up.

[Danton]

KireB wrote

Apparently there are a lot of people who think that vote buying and selling by poor, often uneducated people, is a normal thing.

It surprises me that election-fraud is a kind of accepted.

I was just curious what election in thailand during the last 20 or 30 years (40 opr 50) did vote buying not occur? and when did the people suddenly decide that NOW, this last election it should be stopped ?

Just curious

I would say ALL of them.

And a question to the question.

When is it considered too early to say:

'Enough is enough we must reduce corruption now'?

And what makes you think that a guy like Sondhi , who was best buddy with the Kaiser of corruption Thaksin not so long ago , who defaulted on several tens of million of US$ of bonds , who has built a business empire in Thailand , has even an ounce of credibility when it comes to fighting corruption ?

Maybe being burned by Thaksin's corruption changed his mind?

I think he would still be doing well if the playing field of business

had not been so jiggered by Thaksin's corruption.

Thaksin took out a competitor rather nastily,

and now that action is coming back to get him.

SOME people do learn over time.

Your naiveness honors you , but you might as well keep believing in Santa Calus.

Ah yes, and you see none of what I'm saying, so I must be naive.

Shoot the messenger...

rather than attack me, why not look and question the points.

Their past history is pretty well documented.

Thaksin made sure he defaulted to get rid of a major competitor in two business sectors.

From Sondhi's point of view, pretty unforgivable. But believe what you like.

Slagging me doesn't change history.

I said it honored you. It was meant to be a compliment...

Actually you're the one rewriting history ( a prelude to re-educating the ignorant masses ).

He defaulted because he over borrowed and the Baht crashed. He was one of may thai entreperneurs who took a bad bet. Nothing to do with Thakasin. Just bad management.

It was only after that that he went to his buddy and asked for a taxpayer's money bailout..

[vladaman]

Well I just wonder: Why nobody is wearing Yellow shirts today. Have you noticed anybody on BTS wearing yellow?

Even yesterday on MONDAY I could barely see anybody in yellow.

[Bangyai]

[yes ... there is a severe lack of anything BUT the party-line media outlets available upcountry to the vast majority of the poor. Watching people take the re-education statement out of context is almost humorous though (almost -- because some folks actually didn't read what was written and just grabbed that one line)

Thats interesting , I've always taken you for one of the ' urban effete ' JD, didn't know you'd also done time in the boonies getting down and dirty with the rural poor. Must have been a pretty isolated place though.? Plenty of the homes in the village I used to live in now have satellite dishes and some have really pushed the boat out and have a pat lom as well !! You would be surprised how knowledgeable some of them are. The image of a bunch of dimwit yokels huddling around a candle trying to tune it into ASTV doesn't really bring back any memories

wow lao pen bo ?

Banger, you must admit that outside communication you describe IS a rather more recent phenomenon.

And until ASTV, Thaksin's satalite controled WHICH channels got broadcast.

This has changed with ASTV and Shinsats sale. in the last rather few years.

Well, it depends on what you call a recent phenomenon. The last time I lived next to a buffalo wallow in darkest esahn was 15 years ago. At that time just about every household had a colour television. Needless to say, no satelite t.v. and no internet. However, as any falang serving a sentance in the villages will tell you, in the centre of every community there is usualy some kind of Sala ( covered shelter ) which serves as a focal point for the villagers. At this point there is also a VERY annoying tannoy system that diseminates local news and the headmans bulletins.Also, there are usually several well thumbed newspapers a few days old for interested parties to thumb through.I found that the younger generation were not very interested in politics , prefering heavy petting and other pursuits. However , some of the men in their late 50's used to get into no holes barred discussions on politics that I found quiet surprising.

My point is, that those who are interested will take the time to get better informed of whats happening in the world beyond the end of their nose. Even if these people live in the sticks, information has been available to them for some time. Education is no guarentee of a dazzeling I.Q. Intelligent people are capable of logical thought processes even if they live in the back of beyond so it is presumptuous of city folk to think they know better than their rural brothers and to put on airs and graces just because they wear shoes and socks rather than flip flops.

Education is something to be reached out for and grasped with both hands not shoved down peoples throats or melted over there ears by people who presume ' they know better '.

Interestingly, when teaching at Siam Square, I had many Chula students pass through my hands ( metaphorically, worst luck ) who although cleaner cut and with more social graces were on the whole not better people or better informed than countryfolk. Obviously they were very well clued up on their specialist subjects but their general knowledge was poor. One student managed an appearance on the Thai version of ' Who Wants to be a Millionair ? ' but after a good start flunked out when asked which province Pattaya was in and couldn't answer.

Well, I could go on but I sense your eyelids closing so I'll spare you any continuance.

IMO , the rural people know well enough what they want without being told by someone else. As for education I would say to the PAD, put your own house in order first before presuming to dictate to others.

And say hello to the misses animatic....its a lovely December day out there but likely no snow for Christmas

[Plus]

After the 2006 coup Sondhi was allowed on public TV for a while but was quickly kicked out, he didn't even protest.

Why do you think he'd go for massive brainwashing now?

When several million people think that vote buying is an accepted practice they are surely in need of re-education, one way or another.

Daniel Kate based his article on interviews with a couple of supporters in the crowd rather than on PAD official statements and policies. Why get all so excited about a couple of heated comments made by people with no power or responsibility?

Then pour members start absolute nonsense about fascism, communism, re-education camps and what not.

>>>

Television IS an educational tool in this country, not for kids, but for "adults".

I'm a bit dissapointed with little progress made by Thai PBS, they were supposed to set standards in investigative and socially responsible journalism, maybe they will do better after PPP is gone.

Also, Isanese should listen to ASTV once in a while - just for the sake of different perspective, or to realise that they shouldn't automatically believe everything they see on TV.

Back to my first point again - if millions of people belive that vote buying is acceptable in democracy - they definetely need re-education. Anyone would care to dispute that?

[sriracha john]

Well I just wonder: Why nobody is wearing Yellow shirts today. Have you noticed anybody on BTS wearing yellow?

Even yesterday on MONDAY I could barely see anybody in yellow.

Does your eyesight cover the entire length and breadth of this Nation? Or is anyone exceeding the length of your vision a "nobody"?

btw, Sriracha witnessed a noticeable INCREASE in the wearing of yellow yesterday.

[dtarasin]

Fair enough. And I'd like to say that animatic is one of the more reasonable and balanced voices I've seen so far around here.

I do agree that their radical actions were a reaction as opposed to being spontaneous, BUT, seeing as the PAD are always touting themselves as the "educated" and "peaceful" voices of this argument, they should lead by example. It is the responsibility of the educated to move the political discourse with empathy and prudence.

Civility, not hostility, is the only way to solve this. And one DOESN'T blame others as the cause for one's actions. If the PAD's actions can be so easily manipulated by outside forces, how can they be strong enough to lead?

This has been posted numerous times, but one more time. The PAD are not a political party running for office, they simply with to have a government that is without Rampant Corruption, as the Thaskin Clan keep trying to set up.

*sigh*... "leading" doesn't necessarily mean running more office! why are you people so single-minded? do you think people would be protesting at the airport if the PAD wasn't "leading" them?

If you really really want to argue semantics, what I meant was "strong enough to make wise decisions with the knowledge that others will follow".

[Chaimai]

Back to my first point again - if millions of people belive that vote buying is acceptable in democracy - they definetely need re-education. Anyone would care to dispute that?

I dispute it.

Re-education, and the context in which it was used smacked of arrogance, racism and fascism. Re-education is an inference that whatever somebody has learned is wrong and they have to be taught a different view.

EDUCATION - in a developing nation where people are taught the fundamentals of right and wrong and that corruption serves no long-term benefit - that is EDUCATION.

[Bangyai]

[yes ... there is a severe lack of anything BUT the party-line media outlets available upcountry to the vast majority of the poor. Watching people take the re-education statement out of context is almost humorous though (almost -- because some folks actually didn't read what was written and just grabbed that one line)

Thats interesting , I've always taken you for one of the ' urban effete ' JD, didn't know you'd also done time in the boonies getting down and dirty with the rural poor. Must have been a pretty isolated place though.? Plenty of the homes in the village I used to live in now have satellite dishes and some have really pushed the boat out and have a pat lom as well !! You would be surprised how knowledgeable some of them are. The image of a bunch of dimwit yokels huddling around a candle trying to tune it into ASTV doesn't really bring back any memories

wow lao pen bo ?

Great some satellite dishes in your village! (must be the 'elite') but help us out, how many news agencies are on these Satellite packages that are not owned by the Government or answer to the government AND broadcast news in Thai?

as for your 'urban effete' remark ... classy!

Yes, I thought you might appreciate that. I was going to give it to you for Christmas but I'm sure I can find something better in the meantime and maybe a bit of wrapping paper too, if you're lucky. Squat down next to the air con and pray to Santa.

As for the topic, I'll have to refer you back to animatics post as I have some tacky brick cladding to stick on the front of the gf's house today and the job takes longest thats never started. Later maybe.

[animatic]

KireB wrote

Apparently there are a lot of people who think that vote buying and selling by poor, often uneducated people, is a normal thing.

It surprises me that election-fraud is a kind of accepted.

I was just curious what election in thailand during the last 20 or 30 years (40 opr 50) did vote buying not occur? and when did the people suddenly decide that NOW, this last election it should be stopped ?

Just curious

I would say ALL of them.

And a question to the question.

When is it considered too early to say:

'Enough is enough we must reduce corruption now'?

And what makes you think that a guy like Sondhi , who was best buddy with the Kaiser of corruption Thaksin not so long ago , who defaulted on several tens of million of US$ of bonds , who has built a business empire in Thailand , has even an ounce of credibility when it comes to fighting corruption ?

Maybe being burned by Thaksin's corruption changed his mind?

I think he would still be doing well if the playing field of business

had not been so jiggered by Thaksin's corruption.

Thaksin took out a competitor rather nastily,

and now that action is coming back to get him.

SOME people do learn over time.

Your naiveness honors you , but you might as well keep believing in Santa Calus.

Ah yes, and you see none of what I'm saying, so I must be naive.

Shoot the messenger...

rather than attack me, why not look and question the points.

Their past history is pretty well documented.

Thaksin made sure he defaulted to get rid of a major competitor in two business sectors.

From Sondhi's point of view, pretty unforgivable. But believe what you like.

Slagging me doesn't change history.

I said it honored you. It was meant to be a compliment...

Actually you're the one rewriting history ( a prelude to re-educating the ignorant masses ).

He defaulted because he over borrowed and the Baht crashed. He was one of may thai entreperneurs who took a bad bet.

Nothing to do with Thakasin. Just bad management.

It was only after that that he went to his buddy and asked for a taxpayer's money bailout..

That is the out front story,

behind the scenes Thaksin could have helped with his insider info,

but specifically cut the man who had helped make him half a billion out of the loop.

And made efforts to screw up his recovery afterwards.

Partial history is not re-writing history it's just incomplete history.

But nobody believes Sondhi is an angel, or a super manager caught in bad times,

but that doesn't mean Thaksin didn't put the screws to him also.

[wayfarer108]

Thaksin didn't just manage the media better than anyone. He also owned most of the media . In addition, he backed the propaganda with actions, and I think that's what counts most in Thai people's minds. They are used to being lied to on TV, but Taksin actually introduced the 30 baht health care scheme and loans to villages. The BKK elite, on the other hand, never gave the people anything.

The PAD and educated Thais know that Thaksin is a huge danger to the country but getting the point across to rural Thais will be hard. Particularly because a lot of Thaksin supporters want to violently dispose of the PAD...

Of course Thaksin is the most elite person in the whole country, being the richest. When in power he was the sixth richest ruler in the world, right behind Bush and Berlusconi (and those above B & B were all Arab sheikhs). He lied to the villagers, put them in debt and in his pocket.

PAD took over the airport ... Thaksin took over the country. In the end it's propaganda war, and the PAD are losing.

[Plus]

Back to my first point again - if millions of people belive that vote buying is acceptable in democracy - they definetely need re-education. Anyone would care to dispute that?

I dispute it.

Re-education, and the context in which it was used smacked of arrogance, racism and fascism. Re-education is an inference that whatever somebody has learned is wrong and they have to be taught a different view.

Complaints about presentation should be e-mailed to Daniel Kate, not to PAD.

And I don't understand your objection at all - if we agree that "Isanese" have learned/been taught that vote buying is acceptable they surely must be taught a different view. Call it re-education or de-programming, or just education - it doesn't matter, it can't be allowed to continue.

[LomSak27]

SriRacha posts

Does your eyesight cover the entire length and breadth of this Nation? Or is anyone exceeding the length of your vision a "nobody"?

btw, Sriracha witnessed a noticeable INCREASE in the wearing of yellow yesterday.

From a teacher I know in P-loke. His school had required faculty to wear yellow on Monday. As of last Friday this has now been dropped.

[younghusband]

Back to my first point again - if millions of people belive that vote buying is acceptable in democracy - they definetely need re-education. Anyone would care to dispute that?

I dispute it.

Re-education, and the context in which it was used smacked of arrogance, racism and fascism. Re-education is an inference that whatever somebody has learned is wrong and they have to be taught a different view.

Complaints about presentation should be e-mailed to Daniel Kate, not to PAD.

And I don't understand your objection at all - if we agree that "Isanese" have learned/been taught that vote buying is acceptable they surely must be taught a different view. Call it re-education or de-programming, or just education - it doesn't matter, it can't be allowed to continue.

But I don't accept your basic vote buying premise (not that it doesn't happen -which it does -but the overwhelming significance you give it).This tired old argument has become intellectually threadbare.Chang Noi wrote an excellent analysis of this issue some time ago.I would say something about the ridiculous way you talk about Isaan as a lumpen block whereas even a quick analysis would see how the NE has become better educated, richer and generally more integrated in Thai society as a whole.However increasingly these ideological PAD types are losing it as the nation and the world at large wises up to their true colours.Sure they will see a short term gain shortly through the politicised judiciary but really -and I think they know this in their hearts -they are losing the battle.