English Teachers In Thailand An Overlooked Asset?

[Thaigrr]

Seems to me, the Thai government thinks the only foreigners who contribute to Thailand are the rich tourists who stay in the five star hotels whose profits benefit the corporation, e.g. Hilton. Marriot, Sofitel.

Us English teachers, who actually contribute to the long term benefit of Thailand by teaching the under educated Thai youth, suffer with the ridiculously low wages these kikos pay, and have to kiss ass while we make 25,000 baht as our Thai counterparts ride home in cars and log-in on their 80,000 baht laptops.

It's long past time these exploiters admited their exploitation and started treating us foreign teachers with the kreng jai they profess to hold for teachers.

######, Vietnam pays their teachers almost twice what us Thai counterparts are paid.

And please, you Thailand lovers, don't bore us with your "love it or leave it" bullshit. Thailand has the money to start paying a fair wage and treating those who are, in reality, contributing to the future of Thailand much more substantially than the few premium card holders every could or will.

[kreon]

######, Vietnam pays their teachers almost twice what us Thai counterparts are paid.

go to figging vietnam

[samran]

tell that to the average civil servant who by retirement can only expect to earn pehaps 20,000 per month (starting wage is 8000 if you have a masters).

[andyadam]

Seems to me, the Thai government thinks the only foreigners who contribute to Thailand are the rich tourists who stay in the five star hotels whose profits benefit the corporation, e.g. Hilton. Marriot, Sofitel.

Us English teachers, who actually contribute to the long term benefit of Thailand by teaching the under educated Thai youth, suffer with the ridiculously low wages these kikos pay, and have to kiss ass while we make 25,000 baht as our Thai counterparts ride home in cars and log-in on their 80,000 baht laptops.

It's long past time these exploiters admited their exploitation and started treating us foreign teachers with the kreng jai they profess to hold for teachers.

######, Vietnam pays their teachers almost twice what us Thai counterparts are paid.

And please, you Thailand lovers, don't bore us with your "love it or leave it" bullshit. Thailand has the money to start paying a fair wage and treating those who are, in reality, contributing to the future of Thailand much more substantially than the few premium card holders every could or will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I take it you have a BEd degree then and you were teaching in your own country and just thought you would carry on here?

Teaching is a vocation, not a job. No, I am not a teacher, I came here and I do the same job I did in my own country, if you are not happy being exploited, break the chain, make a stand, don't accept a job that pays less than 80,000 a month.

Exploitation in the workplace happens all over the world, I get paid less working here, even if I work for the same company as I did at home, they know I live here for less and exploit that fact, I accept that.

If you accept the wages offered then you are accepting being exploited, don't like it, find another career that pays more.

[sriracha john]

tell that to the average civil servant who by retirement can only expect to earn pehaps 20,000 per month (starting wage is 8000 if you have a masters).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

or the 6,000 per month Thai government school teacher with 45 students in a classroom....

[mbkudu]

Us English teachers suffer with the ridiculously low wages these kikos pay, and have to kiss ass while we make 25,000 baht

[/quote Thaigrr]

If this is all you're making, then you're doing something wrong or not enough of something right.

[boris]

Seems to me, the Thai government thinks the only foreigners who contribute to Thailand are the rich tourists who stay in the five star hotels whose profits benefit the corporation, e.g. Hilton. Marriot, Sofitel.

Us English teachers, who actually contribute to the long term benefit of Thailand by teaching the under educated Thai youth, suffer with the ridiculously low wages these kikos pay, and have to kiss ass while we make 25,000 baht as our Thai counterparts ride home in cars and log-in on their 80,000 baht laptops.

It's long past time these exploiters admited their exploitation and started treating us foreign teachers with the kreng jai they profess to hold for teachers.

######, Vietnam pays their teachers almost twice what us Thai counterparts are paid.

And please, you Thailand lovers, don't bore us with your "love it or leave it" bullshit. Thailand has the money to start paying a fair wage and treating those who are, in reality, contributing to the future of Thailand much more substantially than the few premium card holders every could or will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not see why in any country parents should entrust their childrens education to someone who writes in such a slovenly manner as yourself, or "us teachers" to borrow your own illiterate usage.I frankly doubt, given the sullen tone and the dubious literacy whether you are even worth Bt 25,000 a month. and your self-pitying bitter tirade insults the many expatriate teachers in Thailand who are doing a decent job.

[sriracha john]

Seems to me, the Thai government thinks the only foreigners who contribute to Thailand are the rich tourists who stay in the five star hotels whose profits benefit the corporation, e.g. Hilton. Marriot, Sofitel.

Us English teachers, who actually contribute to the long term benefit of Thailand by teaching the under educated Thai youth, suffer with the ridiculously low wages these kikos pay, and have to kiss ass while we make 25,000 baht as our Thai counterparts ride home in cars and log-in on their 80,000 baht laptops.

It's long past time these exploiters admited their exploitation and started treating us foreign teachers with the kreng jai they profess to hold for teachers.

######, Vietnam pays their teachers almost twice what us Thai counterparts are paid.

And please, you Thailand lovers, don't bore us with your "love it or leave it" bullshit. Thailand has the money to start paying a fair wage and treating those who are, in reality, contributing to the future of Thailand much more substantially than the few premium card holders every could or will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not see why in any country parents should entrust their childrens education to someone who writes in such a slovenly manner as yourself, or "us teachers" to borrow your own illiterate usage.I frankly doubt, given the sullen tone and the dubious literacy whether you are even worth Bt 25,000 a month. and your self-pitying bitter tirade insults the many expatriate teachers in Thailand who are doing a decent job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

as well as the Thai teachers doing a harder job for 1/4th the salary...

[PeaceBlondie]

Some Thai teachers with recent rajabat graduation start around 6,000. Some longterm teachers make over 30,000. It's a comparison of longan and durian. There are many extreme differences between Thai teachers and native speaking teachers of English. Would you compare the job of Prime Minister in Thailand with the UK?

[Ijustwannateach]

This thread's a real winner- I can tell already.

As PB says, farang and Thai teachers are not in the same market. It's comparing factory workers in India to taxi drivers in Ghana. We wouldn't be here without the higher wages- while the Thais have to be here, and that reduces their market value. That said, they don't have the same kinds of inconvenience we have here; they have the benefits of long-term family and residence; and they make all the tea money on the side.

As for 'harder job,' sriracha, if making decorations for Happy Fluffy Dance Day, going to a few more meetings, and teaching (usually) half the class load of the average farang English teacher is more difficult, then yes, their job is more difficult.

This topic comes up on every teaching-related forum once in a while; it's good bait for the trolls.

"Steven"

[mbkudu]

I think there are two arguments here going on at the same time: Whether or not English teachers are appreciated and the other, an unfair comparison between Thai teachers and foreign teachers. The first one is up to the foreign teacher to make enough money to feel comfortable; it can be done.

Comparing Thai teachers salaries and foreign teachers salaries is not logical. English is a sought after skill that is not easily accquired in Thailand. Expat specialists who come here to design bridges and highways for the Thai government

get more money than a Thai engineer because they possess a special skill that the Thais do not have. A competent English teacher's salary should be regarded in the same way.

Steven beat me to it; you're fast.

Edited December 18, 2004 by mbkudu

[Ijustwannateach]

Quick on the draw today!

And no life...

but meeting someone later!

And yes, I agree that you can do better than 25K if you're even a bit qualified and willing to change jobs until you find the right one- though it's not for the weak of heart.

Btw, Boris, people who have anything worth being snobbish about typically aren't.

"Steven"

[boris]

Quick on the draw today!

And no life... 

but meeting someone later! 

And yes, I agree that you can do better than 25K if you're even a bit qualified and willing to change jobs until you find the right one- though it's not for the weak of heart.

Btw, Boris, people who have anything worth being snobbish about typically aren't.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In what sense was I being snobbish?

[Indo-Siam]

I'm amused by the way this thread started, as if there is a "they" who pull the strings, and centrally determine salaries for English language teachers.

That's a load of rubbish.

Salaries are detemined by supply and demand. Because lots of love-struck (or lust-struck) English-speakers want to persist in Thailand, and based on the present demand for low-grade English-language instruction - the main qualifications perhaps amounting to being 1) here; and 2) a native English speaker - the salaries are what they are.

The market detemines the rate paid - not some cabal of mysterious manipulators.

Hey - Thaigrr - if you don't like the crummy wages paid to you as a teacher, then stop being an employee, and go start your own English language school. Then - as the big cheese - you can set your own lofty salary. All you have to do is convince the open market that your instruction is worth the fees necessary to support your generous salary.

You will quickly learn whether your skills represent just an over-abundant commodity, or whether you really have the value to the end-users that you seem to think you have. There will be nowhere to hide - reality will smack you in the face.

Cheers!

Indo-Siam

[sriracha john]

The likely result would be the same as the last two English-language franchise mills that opened and then promptly closed within the last six months in town. Perhaps the local Thais have finally begin to realize they are nothing more than expensive scams.

[sriracha john]

As for 'harder job,' sriracha, if making decorations for Happy Fluffy Dance Day, going to a few more meetings, and teaching (usually) half the class load of the average farang English teacher is more difficult, then yes, their job is more difficult. 

I would continue to stand by my assessment after seeing both groups at work and considering such factors as student load, hours in classroom, and classroom conditions. There is certainly a tremendous diversity of situations both of these groups teach in, so I can see that others may have formed a different opinion based upon their individual observations.

[Ajarn]

As for 'harder job,' sriracha, if making decorations for Happy Fluffy Dance Day, going to a few more meetings, and teaching (usually) half the class load of the average farang English teacher is more difficult, then yes, their job is more difficult.  

I would continue to stand by my assessment after seeing both groups at work and considering such factors as student load, hours in classroom, and classroom conditions. There is certainly a tremendous diversity of situations both of these groups teach in, so I can see that others may have formed a different opinion based upon their individual observations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't remember even one situation in a Prathom or Mathayom school where I felt that the Thai teachers didn't have a harder job, more responsibility and more inherrent stress than any farang teacher in that school. There may be exceptions, but I'd say not many....

Edited December 19, 2004 by Ajarn

[Ijustwannateach]

^ and ^^ It's true that there are a lot of different situations here. Depends a lot on the school- but the TYPE of responsibility is quite different, certainly.

^^^ and ^^^^ Well, you've had your fun- but one could also argue that the *salary* draws the professional, as well- and at the low levels they have been at for a number of years, Thailand hasn't been attracting the type of professionals who would in bulk impress it that much with the value of English language instruction by proper teachers. One could argue that at the moment it's as much luck of the draw that an employer here will get a good teacher as a teacher will get a good employer/salary. Chicken or egg?

"Steven"

[Loaded]

tell that to the average civil servant who by retirement can only expect to earn pehaps 20,000 per month (starting wage is 8000 if you have a masters).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last year a student of ours planned to study abroad. No problem until her visa application was knocked back by The British Embassy. Reason: father is a civil servant and only earns 22000 baht/month. Reality: she was given a new BMW for her 21st and family live in a mansion - I guess he just saved realllly hard or 'won' the money in an Australian casino. Oh yeh, he works in the local planning office.

Yep, with a masters you might only earn 8000 baht when you start; but I know an engineering associate professor at government university who seems to have as much time away from his 'day' job as he wants to work on (very) lucrative engineering contracts away from the uni.

Obviously not all, but I feel quite a few, Thais have discovered ways to supplement their official salaries. Official salaries can't really be used as a bench mark to judge farang salaries.

[Ajarn]

tell that to the average civil servant who by retirement can only expect to earn pehaps 20,000 per month (starting wage is 8000 if you have a masters).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last year a student of ours planned to study abroad. No problem until her visa application was knocked back by The British Embassy. Reason: father is a civil servant and only earns 22000 baht/month. Reality: she was given a new BMW for her 21st and family live in a mansion - I guess he just saved realllly hard or 'won' the money in an Australian casino. Oh yeh, he works in the local planning office.

Yep, with a masters you might only earn 8000 baht when you start; but I know an engineering associate professor at government university who seems to have as much time away from his 'day' job as he wants to work on (very) lucrative engineering contracts away from the uni.

Obviously not all, but I feel quite a few, Thais have discovered ways to supplement their official salaries. Official salaries can't really be used as a bench mark to judge farang salaries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must agree. In my 16 years of working with Thais, most everyone it seems is hustling and manouvering to get a piece of whatever pie there is... A fair number civil servants do quite well, by anyone's standard.

[samran]

tell that to the average civil servant who by retirement can only expect to earn pehaps 20,000 per month (starting wage is 8000 if you have a masters).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last year a student of ours planned to study abroad. No problem until her visa application was knocked back by The British Embassy. Reason: father is a civil servant and only earns 22000 baht/month. Reality: she was given a new BMW for her 21st and family live in a mansion - I guess he just saved realllly hard or 'won' the money in an Australian casino. Oh yeh, he works in the local planning office.

Yep, with a masters you might only earn 8000 baht when you start; but I know an engineering associate professor at government university who seems to have as much time away from his 'day' job as he wants to work on (very) lucrative engineering contracts away from the uni.

Obviously not all, but I feel quite a few, Thais have discovered ways to supplement their official salaries. Official salaries can't really be used as a bench mark to judge farang salaries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must agree. In my 16 years of working with Thais, most everyone it seems is hustling and manouvering to get a piece of whatever pie there is... A fair number civil servants do quite well, by anyone's standard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course, some of them have legitmate business interests outside of government. Some families make a point of having one child go into the family business, and the other to go into government. In some cases it is a staus thing (being a civil servant is well respected), in other cases there is the hope that in about 20 years that childs position in government will then help benefit the family business.

And yes, in other cases some of them are corrupt, but remember, not everyones dad can work at the planning office or be a senior policeman (which involve substantial downpayments in themselves).

My only point is don't fall for the same story about civil servants that many Thai's belive of Farangs (ie they are all rich). In many cases, they are simply hard working families. The BMW is for show of course, most of them live in houses they won't dare show outsiders!

Edited December 21, 2004 by samran