Democrats To Form New Coalition Government

[steffi]

You seem to always come out in favour and support of the PPP so is your wife's family involved with that team at all?

What skin do you have in the game?

They must have gotten something VERY nice out of this considering that many of these seats will be lost next election in the North and Northeast if they do in fact defect.

Rumors have been throwing around 40 million baht per MP being offered by the corruption free Democrats http://www.matichon.co.th/news_detail.php?...05&catid=01

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that corruption? Taking 40 milion Baht to switch sides?

[sriracha john]

SATURDAY, DECEMBER 6, 2008

this is one of several news articles I've come across on this thread that doesn't cite the source...

If members post news clippings in the news clippings forum, PLEASE POST the source of the news clipping and the date, as well as not make any personal comment within the same post, in accordance with thaivisa's protocol.

Thank you.

I'm sure if you googled the title you'll find it, I came across it either on Bangkok Pundit or maybe Thai Crisis

google it I'm sure you'll find it

Respectfully, that's not how it works. It's on you, the submitter.

[mc2]

I vote for YingLuck. hot as hel_l.. yum.

As the Shinawatra money-laundering operation SC Asset slogan says,

"Be My Guest"...

I vote yingluck for leader of the opposition

Bangkok governor candidate Yuranun Pamornmontri (L) poses for photos with Yinglak Shinawatra, sister of fugitive ex-Thai prime minister Thaksin on Sunday.//Pramote Putthaisong

[annamaria4711]

All Settled; Nothing To Worry About...

Posted by Bangkok Pundit | 12/08/2008 04:00:00 AM

Matichon reports that Abhisit [Dem leader]-Suthep [Dem power broker] will visit Banharn [former leader of Chat Thai and well Chat Thai] at this house at 2pm on December 8 to invite the Chat Thai MPs to invite Chat Thai Pattana [replacement party for Chat Thai] to join the Democrats in government. Reports indicate the Democrats are worried about the Newin group who might not adhere to the agree after reports that Thaksin called MPs in the group asking them to join Puea Thai. Other news reports indicate that 5 MPs per one cabinet seat have been offered and money as well.

Why would they been visiting Banharn you ask?

Thai Rath reports that a Chat Thai MP from Ubon Ratchatani as saying that at 10am on December 8 about forming a government as the press conference by Sanan to support the Democrats shocked him. Many didn't know beforehand. Doesn't know whether the senior people/puu yai in the party will respond. If there is a coalition change will need to look at the result as will need to explain to the people in his electorate. For him, he won't change parties.

Another MP from Nakhon Sri Ayuthaya stated he needs to listen to the reasons first but feels unease on the change. No one has given him a reason becasue the senior people/puu yai in the party didn't inform MPs first. Maybe this is because it was an emergency.

Tomorrow, they will go to fill in the registration documents for Chat Thai Pattana, but many are reticent and want to listen to the reasons first especially the party MPs from the Northeast as it will make campaigning difficult.

BP: The MP from Nakhon Sri Ayuthaya is the only non-PPP MP to win in the December 2007 election and was third (top three become MPs) so you can see why he might be nervous and where there are opportunities to switch. Likewise, one PPP MP switched to the Democrats yesterday - he is from Bangkok.

Puea Thai are not giving up, but they already seem to be preparing for opposition. It certainly seems they won't be quiet like post-2006 coup:

Former Pheu Thai spokesman Sakda Noppasit said the party had only a slim chance as the military had lobbied the others to join the Democrat Party. Pheu Thai has vowed revenge and said it would challenge the Democrat-led government's legitimacy in every way.

"It would be tit-for-tat and could be more severe," he said.

A party source said plans to destroy the credibility of many institutions such as the justice system had been laid out. Protests like those staged by the People's Alliance for Democracy would be planned. Demonstrators would work closely with the red-shirted pro-PPP government group.

Pheu Thai's key member Yongyuth Tiyapairat, a former PPP deputy leader, would be in charge. However, Newin Chidchob's red-shirted supporters would not join, the source said.

BP: More tapes to be released? They will need to be careful that they limit their protests to designated venues, like the November 1 protest, instead of Government House sieges. An obvious point to make would be about the lack of progress in taking action against the PAD leaders.

[permanent_disorder]

If members post news clippings in the news clippings forum, PLEASE POST the source of the news clipping and the date, as well as not make any personal comment within the same post, in accordance with thaivisa's protocol.

Thank you.

I'll second that! PLEASE POST the source.

i know it's easy to google it, but please post the source and also a link if there is an online version.

thank you

[sriracha john]

I vote for YingLuck. hot as hel_l.. yum.

As the Shinawatra money-laundering operation SC Asset slogan says,

"Be My Guest"...

I vote yingluck for leader of the opposition

Bangkok governor candidate Yuranun Pamornmontri (L) poses for photos with Yinglak Shinawatra, sister of fugitive ex-Thai prime minister Thaksin on Sunday.//Pramote Putthaisong

The unmarried Yingluck is no doubt fancying herself as his new co-star for the former romantic movie idol Yuranun

Edited December 8, 2008 by sriracha john

[Wiresok]

I'm still looking for some answers from the PAD /Democrats about their ransom demand.

1.What are the PAD/Democrat views on one person one vote?.

2.What is the PAD/Democrat agenda for the poor people of Issan?

How can any Issan MP of conscience even contemplate a switch untill such questions are answered by PAD, the democrat and court paymasters?

[Journalist]

. If you are so eductaed have you read the latest edition of the Economist, or better still read bangkok Pundit or Thai crisis or even better Absolutely bangkok and many others good websites

Has the Economist been canned in Thailand this week due to its cover story?

If so, you're not missing much, there's little new information in that story.

[Nampeung]

What do you TV members define as ELITE ?

[Wiresok]

Forget Abhisit, he's a draft dodger !

Just remember the screw up caused by the last "elected" draft dodger George W Bush.

[siam4ever]

Read the Economist article or the International Herald Tribune article for a complete understanding of this thread. Unfortunately, discussion in depth is forbidden here.

[sriracha john]

Protests like those staged by the People's Alliance for Democracy would be planned. Demonstrators would work closely with the red-shirted pro-PPP government group.

Pheu Thai's key member Yongyuth Tiyapairat, a former PPP deputy leader, would be in charge.

Not surprising that the accused attempted murderer and banned from politics Mr. Refrigerator is still in the thick of things for the TRT/PPP/PTP.

[Journalist]

Not surprising that the accused attempted murderer and banned from politics Mr. Refrigerator is still in the thick of things for the TRT/PPP/PTP.

Whats worse though, Being a convicted attempted murderer, or an accused murderer?

Being an accused attempted murderer seems ok in comparison ! .

[sriracha john]

Not surprising that the accused attempted murderer and banned from politics Mr. Refrigerator is still in the thick of things for the TRT/PPP/PTP.

Whats worse though, Being a convicted attempted murderer, or an accused murderer?

Being an accused attempted murderer seems ok in comparison ! .

If not for the structural integrity of a sturdy refrigerator stopping a hail of bullets against innocent senior citizens, he'd be an accused murderer.

[amphur]

If the Democrats will be in power and have de PM, for how long can this goverment rule?

When do they have to call the next general elections?

(if they can rule without getting in any sort of trouble)

[brahmburgers]

If the Democrats will be in power and have de PM, for how long can this goverment rule?

When do they have to call the next general elections?

(if they can rule without getting in any sort of trouble)

My guess, if the Dems get their man in the power seat, is the red shirts will demonstrate big time. And it won't be the relatively civil type of demonstration with thousands of people of all ages camped out at the airports. It will be street fighting mayhem - hundreds of paid young men with serious firepower.

[Ricardo]

The corrupt Thai courts are demanding assurances from the militant, armed Paramilitary, terrorist ,fascist PAD ; and their Democrat Party instrument, that the reported 40m baht per head for the MP's to switch, will not be sourced from the their slush fund.

And again, do you have any evidence for your repeated claim, on this and other threads, that the PAD are the militant arm of the Democrats, or that the Democratic Party is an instrument of the PAD, as above. I think not ... or you would surely have posted it ? You damage the IMO-justifiable claim, that the two have some similar aims, and also your own credibility, by extending it further than justified by the facts available.

Any evidence of 40m Baht bribes, should perhaps better be sent to the E.C. or media, as it would be evidence of corruption, but where is the TRT-equivalent of the PAD, to blow the whistle when needed, on this and on corruption during the military-appointed government ?

. If you are so eductaed have you read the latest edition of the Economist, or better still read bangkok Pundit or Thai crisis or even better Absolutely bangkok and many others good websites

Has the Economist been canned in Thailand this week due to its cover story?

If so, you're not missing much, there's little new information in that story.

I thought the news, announced in the Economist article, that "police were suspected of hundreds of extra-judicial killings" in the war on drugs, was unusually sloppy reporting of what are generally accepted to have been 3,000 deaths ! But then it was in a paragraph which claimed that this was "his gravest abuse", talking about Thaksin, and "not entirely his fault". How many deaths would have been necessary, before the Economist condemned it outright, one wonders ?

The article also failed entirely to mention Thaksin's having dissolved parliament himself, then rigged the 2006-election & had it annulled by the E.C., prior to the 2006-coup, so it was hardly a full analysis of recent political-events.

But it was good, in that it said much which can't be said here, and called for increased freedom-of-information as a necessary part of any solution to the current situation.

[younghusband]

I don't quite share the outrage shown by some at the prospect of the Democrats assuming power.If they manage to organise a majority then they have the right to form an administration.In any event we are where we are, rather like being several years into the Iraq war.We may not have liked how we got here but we have to make the best of it.Indeed there's no alternative.I think Abhisit tends to get a lot of unfair criticism and this is partly because he is the elite's candidate.He is of course not well liked in the N.E but if he can show in power that, unlike Thaksin, he is the PM for all Thais... then perhaps that perception can be turned round.Above all he is a highly educated man steeped in the values of liberal democracy, and I can see that he could heal the dreadful damage that has been done by all sides to Thailand's international reputation.There is a need for really clever people at the top to steer a course in the economic storms to come.He hasn't exactly distinguished himself in being outspoken about outrages in recent months but politics is the art of the possible (and let's be realistic he has to carry his core middle class constituency).So I hope he gets his chance.The one question in my mind is whether he posseses that pre-eminent virtue...courage.Politics is about leadership, not just blindly reflecting the views of of voters.

[Plus]

"Thai constitutional law states that if a member of a political party is found to be corrupt the whole party and its executive must be dissolved/barred."

The blabbering idiots at AHRC do not know that if an EXECUTIVE member of a political party is found in violation of electoral laws (not corrupt, as they say), only then the party must be held responsible, and oridinary party members are not barred from politics.

[Journalist]

^This, at long last, appears to be Abhisit's moment in the spotlight. A fork in the road for Thailand possibly.

Lets hope he doesn't kak it up.

[henryalleman]

Obviously my posts might have seemed a bit straight forward and too hard to swallow for some of the posters here. Sorry, but it's just the way I am. Straight forward, agressive, slightly arrogant and with a slice of sarcasm. I agree, one can have a different opinion, but one does not need to be a complete idiot about it...(unless you were born one). Don't worry, in my line of work, I have seen and experienced much flaming/bashing/whatever. One can find it in every forum and this one is no different. It's a wonderful IT world we live in where one can sit comfortably and presumably safe behind the keyboard and become the toughest guy on this planet.

My only opinion raised in this forum has been the questioning on why people still support a criminal who has done much more damage than they know of. Suddenly we have the "fans" bashing up and down on something they know squat about. If you want me to give examples, I will.

If you want my other opinions, here it is:

1. I did not agree when PAD seized the airports. By doing that, they killed tourism. However, I did not like the way the Government was handling the situation either. We have a proxy-PM who obviously misunderstood the letters G-O-V-E-R-N in Government. Instead of action, we have re-action, and what was that? Telling on live TV a story about how the government has done this and that in the past! Touching a bit on Democracy and then.........nothing!

2. I don't like the way the Democrats is setting up the new Government as it is an unstable one. One can never predict what the MP's might do when a lucrative offer comes down the line. And MP's has a long history of back stabbing. I am slightly leaning to favor a re-election.

3. The Democrats is the least corrupt of all the parties. That does not mean they are the best as things tends to go slow then. One thing is for sure though, they have the brightest and best educated people there. They put the right people on the right job. With the democrats, you would not see a cook as a PM, a nurse as Finance Minister, people who bought their Ramkhamheng diploma in top jobs, a bewildered wife of an ex-politician as Minister, Happy Toilet.

Still, I am certain that what's happening now is for the better good. The "red" camp must understand who they are up against...and I am not talking about the PAD, Military, Court etc.

Finally, I appreciate the suspicion that I am a farang due to my proficiency in English. Rest assured, Thailand do have Thais with proper education and work. Some of you might have been surprised though...considering most of the English-speaking Thais you have come across, might be @ Nana.

3. The Democrats is the least corrupt of all the parties. That does not mean they are the best as things tends to go slow then. One thing is for sure though, they have the brightest and best educated people there. They put the right people on the right job.

And their young politicians get their education abroad. So they have a more open view and are not corrupted by the traditional ways of Thai politics. And this is what Thailand is in need for. Young very well educated politicians whit an open view, knowing what are the needs of an modern society. And I hope a willingness and determination to make the necessary social reforms. Because I think we all agree that this the biggest need for Thailand.

Because in the Thaksin era they only get false promises, cheating and manipulation, from a populist who put them deeper in problem.

I can only hope that they will give them the time to reform the Thai society.

[Old Man River]

I don't quite share the outrage shown by some at the prospect of the Democrats assuming power.If they manage to organise a majority then they have the right to form an administration.In any event we are where we are, rather like being several years into the Iraq war.We may not have liked how we got here but we have to make the best of it.Indeed there's no alternative.I think Abhisit tends to get a lot of unfair criticism and this is partly because he is the elite's candidate.He is of course not well liked in the N.E but if he can show in power that, unlike Thaksin, he is the PM for all Thais... then perhaps that perception can be turned round.Above all he is a highly educated man steeped in the values of liberal democracy, and I can see that he could heal the dreadful damage that has been done by all sides to Thailand's international reputation.There is a need for really clever people at the top to steer a course in the economic storms to come.He hasn't exactly distinguished himself in being outspoken about outrages in recent months but politics is the art of the possible (and let's be realistic he has to carry his core middle class constituency).So I hope he gets his chance.The one question in my mind is whether he posseses that pre-eminent virtue...courage.Politics is about leadership, not just blindly reflecting the views of of voters.

As Chairman of the Democrats Advisory Board, Abhisit will have Chuan standing right behind him giving him advice when needed. It is a formidable one two punch.

I laugh at the sore losers crying that Abhisit didn't attend the military. I wonder how many in the TRT/PPP/Puea Thai also escaped conscription?

[marshbags]

What do you TV members define as ELITE ?

Elite in Thailand as per Thai culture is not the way the majority of overseas members interpret the meaning.

Personally it is not about class, but about being a selfless leader, in various ways with the obvious one being a better person, complimenting other recognised assets and positive contributions to society ect. ect.

Money does not make you ELITE where i come from, it is no guarantee that they are good and most certainly does not make you an understanding positive member of society or group.

Thai culture, sadly, in many cases is a good example.

Look at the present political situation, we have at the present time coming and going within the two main parties, so called ELITE individuals who wish to represent Thai society and the taking care and guiding of ALL it,s citizens, their future and their beloved country.

Many yesterday decided initially that the best party for this was / is the Democrats ????

Early evening yesterday, ( 17.00ish ) long before it was posted on Thai Visa, it was announced on ASTV that the so called partners of this new alliance had now in fact decided they would support the PueThai / Thaksin surrogate party MK3.

I did not post it as there was no definative confirmation on this, and continually flicked the news media for additional back up until logging off, with non forthcoming.

There has been enough non confirmed / rumour posting already IMHO

These so called ELITE members of Thai society have chosen to shift parties......

NOT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THAILAND AND ALL IT,S CITIZENS, THEY HAVE DONE SO PURELY FOR MONETARY GAIN FOR THEMSELVES, SELF INTERESTS AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, " THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS "

These so called ELITE are nothing more than low life self serving, " bottom of the group " and that,s how i intepret the difference when it comes to so called class.

I would wish at the end of the day the true ELITE as i see them, eventually surface to the Govern and give ordinaryThai a genuine hope for the future.

This as a father and husband of our beloved family is my dearest wish and i feel on their behalf i am / we are entitled to expect.

At present all i see is a non entertaining circus, being presented by a several clowns and 2 NON ELITE conjurers

marshbags

Edited December 8, 2008 by marshbags

[Old Man River]

If the Democrats will be in power and have de PM, for how long can this goverment rule?

When do they have to call the next general elections?

(if they can rule without getting in any sort of trouble)

How long can a Democrat led coalition last is anyone's guess, although in general in Thai politics coalition governments don't make the full four years. Legally, they would have around 3 more years given the election was in Dec. 2007.

The question now is whether the Puea Thai can woo back enough support to once again lead the coaltion government. The one message that has been coming out loud and clear is that most MP's don't want another nominee as the new PM. Since the PM normally is the head of a party, the Puea Thai pulled a fast one on Yingluck Shinawatra by not putting her name forward as the head of the Puea Thai party. If they had done that, being unquestionably a nominee, they would have had no shot at forming the new government. Now, they still are in the hunt, but at present it looks like it will be the Dems.

One thing the Puea Thai can do to woo back the MP's they appear to have lost is to promise to dissolve parliament soon after they put the new coalition together. This would give, for example, the old Chart Thai enough time to put together a new party (which they failed to do thinking they wouldn't be disbanded). It would also give enough time to conceivably solidify the Puea Thai's financing to be made available to those that join.

There are still a lot of if's to be played out before we have a new government in place that will last longer than a few months.

[Ulysses G.]

All things happening now is just a part of a big plot that people like you would never understand. I cant go into details with the risk of exposing myself too much.

It is pretty obvious from your 'insider" posts that you are either Agent Maxwell Smart or Inspector Jacques Clouseau. Which is it?

LOL .. another Colpyat!

hahahaha... just caught up reading up to this post to find someone else also making the Colpyat connection...

Colpyat was not a kneejerk Thaksin hater. This fellow is.

[SNGLIFE]

Q. how can an opposition party form a (coalition) government WITHOUT an electorate mandate?

Because TIT.

Does it ever make sense?

[pete1973]

"Thai constitutional law states that if a member of a political party is found to be corrupt the whole party and its executive must be dissolved/barred."

The blabbering idiots at AHRC do not know that if an EXECUTIVE member of a political party is found in violation of electoral laws (not corrupt, as they say), only then the party must be held responsible, and oridinary party members are not barred from politics.

I think its just a case of not so well written English

I read that and understand that they are saying:

the party is to be dissolved, and executives banned,

but yes you are right, to an uninformed reader, its hard to get a proper picture of what the law says and what has been done.

that aside, I do have to remind us that the constitution was changed in 2007 (after the military coup), and this clause was added in, with the very effect of wanting to dissolve TRT and ban its executives from continuing in politics.

they have used it again in this recent case. the interesting part for me is the fact that court clearly states that, regardless of whether other executives are aware of the corruption/vote buying, all executives will be punished.

this is totally against the rule of law, where "no person should be punished for a crime they did not commit"

[SNGLIFE]

On a serious note. If ANY government is elected in "free and fair" elections, then they should govern regardless of whether or not they are corrupt. They were elected BY the people. PAD wants government by minority rule. That is NOT democracy.

[Old Man River]

What do you TV members define as ELITE ?

Elite in Thailand as per Thai culture is not the way the majority of overseas members intrepret the meaning.

Personally it is not about class, but about being a selfless leader, in various ways with the obvious one being a better person, complimenting other recognised assets and positive contributions to society ect. ect.

Money does not make you ELITE where i come from, it is no guarantee that they are good and most certainly does not make you an understanding positive member of society or group.

Thai culture, sadly, in many cases is a good example.

Look at the present political situation, we have at the present time coming and going within the two main parties, so called ELITE individuals who wish to represent Thai society and the taking care and guiding of ALL it,s citizens, their future and their beloved country.

Many yesterday decided initially that the best party for this was / is the Democrats ????

Early evening yesterday, ( 17.00ish ) long before it was posted on Thai Visa, it was announced on ASTV that the so called partners of this new alliance had now in fact decided they would support the PueThai / Thaksin surrogate party MK3.

I did not post it as there was no definative confirmation on this, and continually flicked the news media for additional back up until logging off, with non forthcoming.

There has been enough non confirmed / rumour posting already IMHO

These so called ELITE members of Thai society have chosen to shift parties......

NOT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THAILAND AND ALL IT,S CITIZENS, THEY HAVE DONE SO PURELY FOR MONETARY GAIN FOR THEMSELVES, SELF INTERESTS AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, " THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS "

These so called ELITE are nothing more than low life self serving, " bottom of the group " and that,s how i intepret the difference when it comes to so called class.

I would wish at the end of the day the true ELITE as i see them, eventually surface to the Govern and give ordinaryThai a genuine hope for the future.

This as a father and husband of our beloved family is my dearest wish and i feel on their behalf i am / we are entitled to expect.

At present all i see is a non entertaining circus, being presented by a several clowns and 2 NON ELITE conjurers

marshbags

It is a good question and one I asked a year or so ago. I got about 10 different answers, and all were feasible. The bottom line is that there isn't any consistent definition as to who an elite is in Thai society. For sure, those who have Royal designations in front of their names or honorary titles following their names qualify, but this is only a select few. Other than these, an elite is whoever you think of is an elite, but be aware 100 other people will have different definitions.

[Old Man River]

On a serious note. If ANY government is elected in "free and fair" elections, then they should govern regardless of whether or not they are corrupt. They were elected BY the people. PAD wants government by minority rule. That is NOT democracy.

The PAD aside, if the Democrats can put together a coalition of MP's then this government will have met your specifications.