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Are Farang Restaurant Owners Thai Friendly?


keestha

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quote: suckling pig stuffed with bay leave-blueberry scented rocqueford cheese"

Could someone translate this into Thai for me? :D

I will ask my thai wife to translate later once she gets home from her workplace. She has just recently been employed as a Neuroscientist for a leading company in the field and its her second day so i better not phone her yet and disturb her.

She just finished her second term as Miss Thailand yesterday, so she might be a little tired. :D

Mine is pretty tired after finishing her shift at Baby a Go-Go! Then again she say's it's all worth it as she earns roughly 100,000 Baht a month at work and 5 different punters are sending her money that puts her on about 250,000 Baht a Month, not bad really. Pays for my Fortuner, plus the Mia Noi's condo.

Her friend has a BA from CM Uni and earns 10,000 Baht a month in MK Suki!

She wanted to end it all and go onto further education so I could tell everyone here on this forum that my GF has a Degree, but I told her that I won't live with her if she can't keep me in the lifestyle I've become accustomed too. :o

Baby a go-go! Yeah, she speaks very highly of you :D

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I think that menus should have pictures of every single meal.

Most of the time, the words dont make sense anyways.. and at least u know what u get when u see a picture, if it doesnt look same same, u get different different+nopay

Good luck with that. Happens a lot.

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I once went to German restaurant in Pattaya where the menu was only in German. I didn't feel too welcome

I agree. That is fairly common here among various nationalities here and it pisses me off. It is also stupid. Do they seriously think only Germans might want to eat German food?

Yep.

Why would anyone else want to eat German food? It's almost as bad as English food...!

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I once went to German restaurant in Pattaya where the menu was only in German. I didn't feel too welcome

I agree. That is fairly common here among various nationalities here and it pisses me off. It is also stupid. Do they seriously think only Germans might want to eat German food?

Yep.

Why would anyone else want to eat German food? It's almost as bad as English food...!

There are some nice German dishes. Sauerbraten, potato dumplings, and that red cabbage they do come to mind. Granted, in Pattaya, most of the custom is going to be Germans. I wonder if they consider it a business decision to give their place more street cred to the Germans not to be welcoming to non-Germans. Lose a few, gain many.

Edited by Jingthing
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For the last 15 years I have been running restaurants in Thailand, always in combination with a hotel. I always made it a point to have the menu in the restaurant also written in Thai, besides English and German.

It makes it easier for the staff, but also it makes it a lot easier and more pleasant for Thai customers, who are more often than not Thai ladies coming together with a farang.

It always pisses me off when I go and eat somewhere else with my Thai wife, and I have to help her out ordering because the menu is only written in English. (Of course she graduated from a top university like most Thai ladies who are together with a member of this board, but something like " suckling pig stuffed with bay leave-blueberry scented rocqueford cheese" can be a bit difficult.)

In your native country, how would you feel if in a restaurant they didn't bother to write the menu also in the national language?

:o Menus? You go to restaurants that actually have Menus?

Just kidding, but some of the best food I've had in Thailand was in restaurants where there was no menu, and you had to tell the waiter what you wanted in Thai or sometimes a combination of Thai and Chinese.

I was once in a restaurant in Vietnam that served Korean food. They had a menu in Korean (I guess, anyhow, I knew it was written in Korean characters). It had been translated into English, of a sort. Fortunately there was pictures of the food along with the English translation, I had "spicy pieces of cows stomach" according to the translation, Tirned out to be,as I could see from the picture, beef liver and hearts, grilled at the table, with a spicy chilli sauce. It was pretty good, but if I had read the menu only, I never would have ordered "spicy pieces of cow's stomach"

:D

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I wouldn't go so far as the politically correct Canadian solution where they have strict laws about this (eveything must be French/English) but rude is rude and disrespectful is disrespectful.

There is no federal law in Canada that mandates that menus be bilingual. Quebec which is subject to a law intended to promote and preserve the french language requires that menus be in French with a 2nd language, if used, in smaller fonts. Use of a separate language menu is also permitted if requested. So pffft.

If a business owner is wealthy enough to not wish to service the needs of Thai speaking consumers, than so be it. His or her loss. If people find it inappropriate, they shouldn't frequent the restaurant. If the owner doesn't mind insulting his staff, facilitating incorrect orders, and pissing off customers, so be it. As soon as he loses his singlet another farang will come along to take over the place.

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For the last 15 years I have been running restaurants in Thailand, always in combination with a hotel. I always made it a point to have the menu in the restaurant also written in Thai, besides English and German.

It makes it easier for the staff, but also it makes it a lot easier and more pleasant for Thai customers, who are more often than not Thai ladies coming together with a farang.

It always pisses me off when I go and eat somewhere else with my Thai wife, and I have to help her out ordering because the menu is only written in English. (Of course she graduated from a top university like most Thai ladies who are together with a member of this board, but something like " suckling pig stuffed with bay leave-blueberry scented rocqueford cheese" can be a bit difficult.)

I would feel quite exotic and wouldn't mind as long as I'm with someone who can translate. But I don't mind anyway because my girlfriend speaks almost better English than I do :o (she is half Chinese of course)

My wife is half Chinese, graduated from a top uni in Bkk, speaks and writes excellent English. She's wondering if the suckling pig comes on a very big plate. How big is a suckling pig anyway?

And is the Roquefort cheese only blueberry-scented or does it have a blueberryish taste as well?

In your native country, how would you feel if in a restaurant they didn't bother to write the menu also in the national language?

As an aside, in my native country we have 11 official national languages......

Edited by OlRedEyes
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I once went to German restaurant in Pattaya where the menu was only in German. I didn't feel too welcome

I agree. That is fairly common here among various nationalities here and it pisses me off. It is also stupid. Do they seriously think only Germans might want to eat German food?

Yep.

Why would anyone else want to eat German food? It's almost as bad as English food...!

So an order of Fish & sauerkraut doesn't sound good to you?

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"suckling pig stuffed with bay leave-blueberry scented rocqueford cheese"

เนื้อลูกหมูสอดไส้/ยัดไส้ด้วยใบกระวานและ รอคเคฟอร์ดชีสรสบลูเบอร์รี่

= with the babypig, stuff or put in the filling with bay leaf and cheese 'rocqueford' which mixed in blueberry

I have tried my best translated into Thai....Well, actually is not quite difficult... just like to explain how they will cook the food....

Umm... but I have seen most of farang restaurants here in LOS especially in many decent hotels, there will be no Thai-translatation

just the English's explanation in each menu..... :o

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quote: suckling pig stuffed with bay leave-blueberry scented rocqueford cheese"

Could someone translate this into Thai for me? :D

I will ask my thai wife to translate later once she gets home from her workplace. She has just recently been employed as a Neuroscientist for a leading company in the field and its her second day so i better not phone her yet and disturb her.

She just finished her second term as Miss Thailand yesterday, so she might be a little tired. :D

Mine is pretty tired after finishing her shift at Baby a Go-Go! Then again she say's it's all worth it as she earns roughly 100,000 Baht a month at work and 5 different punters are sending her money that puts her on about 250,000 Baht a Month, not bad really. Pays for my Fortuner, plus the Mia Noi's condo.

Her friend has a BA from CM Uni and earns 10,000 Baht a month in MK Suki!

She wanted to end it all and go onto further education so I could tell everyone here on this forum that my GF has a Degree, but I told her that I won't live with her if she can't keep me in the lifestyle I've become accustomed too. :o

Baby a go-go! Yeah, she speaks very highly of you :D

I know, that's cos she loves me. :D

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When I first glanced at this thread, I was ready to dismiss it as the typical whining you sometimes read in TV. However, now that I have digested it, I have to say the OP has a very good point. Why wouldn't every single restaurant in Thailand have Thai-language menus?

I can't imagine any restaurant in the US, even in the bowels of Chinatown, not having an English-language menu.

Come to think of it, I believe I went to an Italian restaurant once in Bangkok where the waitress had to explain to my date the nuances of a couple dishes as there was nothing written in Thai about them. It didn't register at the time with me, but it certainly will now when I go out to eat.

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Many higher end Bangkok eating places have menus in English, or French, Or Italian. This is due to the establishments subltle approach too keep the local working classes from sticking their nose inside. These places are intended for high spending tourists / expats and upper level Thai (whom should be fluent in foreign languages after all the money Daddy paid to get them through school and university) .. by the way there are many resturants in the London where the menus are in French, Italian, Spanish. Not a problem. If stuck ask the waiter.

Other Resturants in Thailand. Tourist type places; German / English / Scandianvian establishments probably only have an english / German / Scandianvian menu due to the fact that your average Thai would not consider entering at such a place unless accompanied by a Farang that can read the menu. Plus, part of the reason is probably due to laziness on the part of the resturanteur and not intended to offend anyone, Farang, Thai or otherwise.

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When I first glanced at this thread, I was ready to dismiss it as the typical whining you sometimes read in TV. However, now that I have digested it, I have to say the OP has a very good point. Why wouldn't every single restaurant in Thailand have Thai-language menus?

In a perfect world - yes it might be courteous for a farang owned/managed restaurant - aimed at farang customers - to have the menu in Thai as well, but the comment below sticks out to me as why it generally isn't necessary:

Come to think of it, I believe I went to an Italian restaurant once in Bangkok where the waitress had to explain to my date the nuances of a couple dishes as there was nothing written in Thai about them. It didn't register at the time with me, but it certainly will now when I go out to eat.

Eating out in restaurants in the past - with Thai GF - if the menu was only in English she didn't get too uptight about it, she just automatically found one of the Thai staff and had a quick chat in Thai to work out what dishes she might want to order. She would even go and approach the kitchen and speak to the chef/staff there, if need be - whether to query the menu, or even just to see if they would do something for her that wasn't on the menu (thai style dish perhaps)

Rather than get her knickers in a knot about there not being a Thai language version of the menu - she just accepted the fact the restaurant was geared towards foreigners - and improvised.....

This would be my opinion why (in some cases at least) there is no Thai menu, or a need for one....

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When I first glanced at this thread, I was ready to dismiss it as the typical whining you sometimes read in TV. However, now that I have digested it, I have to say the OP has a very good point. Why wouldn't every single restaurant in Thailand have Thai-language menus?

In a perfect world - yes it might be courteous for a farang owned/managed restaurant - aimed at farang customers - to have the menu in Thai as well, but the comment below sticks out to me as why it generally isn't necessary:

Come to think of it, I believe I went to an Italian restaurant once in Bangkok where the waitress had to explain to my date the nuances of a couple dishes as there was nothing written in Thai about them. It didn't register at the time with me, but it certainly will now when I go out to eat.

Eating out in restaurants in the past - with Thai GF - if the menu was only in English she didn't get too uptight about it, she just automatically found one of the Thai staff and had a quick chat in Thai to work out what dishes she might want to order. She would even go and approach the kitchen and speak to the chef/staff there, if need be - whether to query the menu, or even just to see if they would do something for her that wasn't on the menu (thai style dish perhaps)

Rather than get her knickers in a knot about there not being a Thai language version of the menu - she just accepted the fact the restaurant was geared towards foreigners - and improvised.....

This would be my opinion why (in some cases at least) there is no Thai menu, or a need for one....

My date at the time did not get upset about it. But I think all Thai restaurants should have menus in Thai as well.

First, it is good business. Anything which helps out a potential customer is simply good customer service, and here on TV, many posters here decry the lack of proper customer service while extolling what hey had back in their home country.

Second, not every rich Thai (who can afford a high-end restaurant) is fluent in English, as much as we might like to assume that. Maybe the person went to school in China or France. Or I can take my partner's brother as an example. As the oldest son, he was not allowed the luxury of going abroad to study as he had to stay at home to learn the family business. The younger brother went to both high school and university in the US and is fluent in English, but the older brother, who is quite frankly rich enough to buy anything he darn well pleases, can barely muddle through simple English. Given the nuances of many menus, he would stand a chance. And he is proud enough not to want to be embarrassed in front of others.

Third, it is just common courtesy to the country. If a restaurant is making money in a country, then I think it is just common courtesy to acknowledge that in a way, that the host country is giving something to the owners of the restaurant. Having a Thai menu is simple and easy, and just goes a little to acknowledge that debt.

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Some clarifications:

-- Canada does indeed have laws about bilingual signs. Sorry if I gave the impression that those laws extended to menus. I thought they did, thanks for the correction. However, I never suggested that language policy for menus should be the law in Canada, Thailand, or anywhere.

-- I do think not publishing a menu in the language of the nation you are operating in is rude and disrespectful to the people in the country you are operating in. It is true that there is often a business decision not to offer Thai menus in Thailand, but I still think it is a diss.

-- I know for an absolute fact there are Chinese restaurants in the US with no English menu whatsoever, because I have seen this with my own eyes. They are rather rare. However, very common are Chinese restaurants in the US with an English menu for the dumbed down "round eye" "American Chinese" menu (think chicken chow mein, sweet and sour pork. egg rolls) where the REAL Chinese food is presented only in Chinese characters. When I lived in the US, I did find this frustrating and insulting. The only times I really didn't feel welcome at all was where there was no English menu whatsoever. For the ones with the separate Chinese character menu that did offer the stupid American menu, I would just be rude back at them and try to insist that they try to tell me about some of the Chinese dishes (didn't always work) and/or point at dishes on the other tables.

Edited by Jingthing
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My date at the time did not get upset about it. But I think all Thai restaurants should have menus in Thai as well.

bonobo - you're completely correct in your opinion - actually I wasn't inferring your date got upset and I should have mentioned this in my reply.

My comment quoting your post was more to show that in the case where there wasn't a Thai language menu - there would normally be Thai speaking staff so that a Thai guest could query the menu one-on-one, as your date did in your case.....

As per my previous post - I do agree that it would be a courtesy to include a Thai menu in a restaurant geared towards foreigners.....in restaurants where this isn't the case, I would like to think this is merely an oversight etc rather than being intended as a slur towards Thai customers.....

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.

-- I know for an absolute fact there are Chinese restaurants in the US with no English menu whatsoever, because I have seen this with my own eyes. They are rather rare. However, very common are Chinese restaurants in the US with an English menu for the dumbed down "round eye" "American Chinese" menu (think chicken chow mein, sweet and sour pork. egg rolls) where the REAL Chinese food is presented only in Chinese characters. When I lived in the US, I did find this frustrating and insulting. The only times I really didn't feel welcome at all was where there was no English menu whatsoever. For the ones with the separate Chinese character menu that did offer the stupid American menu, I would just be rude back at them and try to insist that they try to tell me about some of the Chinese dishes (didn't always work) and/or point at dishes on the other tables.

If you have seen it, OK. But in the hundreds of CHinese restaurants at where I have dined, I have never been to one which had no English menu, and I often go with Chinese friends to the dingiest places in the deepest depths of Chinatown far off the beaten path. But I often find two menus, one with Americanized food in English and one with more authentic food in Chinese only.

Regardless, I still think it is is a "diss," as you put it, not to have Thai-language menus in resturants here in Thailand.

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If you have seen it, OK. But in the hundreds of CHinese restaurants at where I have dined

Yes, I am not surprised. I said it was rare. Where I did find these were in Asian malls in Silicon Valley California suburbs. They probably didn't mean to be insulting. They didn't expect any Occidental custom and sometimes none of them speak English. But still not a welcoming feeling to find that.

Chinatowns in big cities are tourist draws ...

Edited by Jingthing
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In England we have resturants which have ONLY English Menus, French Menus, Italian Menus, Hebrew Menus, Spanish Menus, Polish Menus, Chinese Menus, American Menus etc etc etc.

It is up to the owner of the establishment which language(s) he decides to employ when drawing up a menu. It could be in Martian. Not a problem.

Not worth sweating about, people.

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It is up to the owner of the establishment which language(s) he decides to employ when drawing up a menu. It could be in Martian. Not a problem.

I agree. But it does send a message.

From the Thai point of view, Thailand is a very nationalistic nation. I think it would be good PR to show respect to the host country of your business, even if you only get one customer a month who it helps. As a farang customer of such a place, I would be impressed with that action. Sometimes gestures have hidden (good) consequences.

Edited by Jingthing
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It is up to the owner of the establishment which language(s) he decides to employ when drawing up a menu. It could be in Martian. Not a problem.

I agree. But it does send a message.

From the Thai point of view, Thailand is a very nationalistic nation. I think it would be good PR to show respect to the host country of your business, even if you only get one customer a month who it helps. As a farang customer of such a place, I would be impressed with that action. Sometimes gestures have hidden (good) consequences.

Yep agreed. The tourist style places could make more of an effort to have a Thai menu. I think the reason that they don't is that they are run often by foreigners, who are not quite up to speed in getting things organised.

But, we should have to take into account that the more upmarket Bangkok resturants are appealing to a certain Thai clientle who prefer foreign language menus. They can go to these resturants and show off their language skills by tackling the menu. The same way that I enjoy ordering from a French or Italian menu in my home country, England.

Foreign menus can be fun when you are learning foreign languages, in you home country or abroad.

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But, we should have to take into account that the more upmarket Bangkok resturants are appealing to a certain Thai clientle who prefer foreign language menus. They can go to these resturants and show off their language skills by tackling the menu. The same way that I enjoy ordering from a French or Italian menu in my home country, England.

I may be the lone ranger here, Geekfreaklover (interesting nick btw) - but I would be very surprised if this was a valid/existing reason for any restaurant in Thailand to deliberately decide on not having a Thai menu.... Can't imagine any proprietor thinking 'lets not have a Thai menu - that way we'll target Thais who want to show off their language skills'.... :o

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But, we should have to take into account that the more upmarket Bangkok resturants are appealing to a certain Thai clientle who prefer foreign language menus. They can go to these resturants and show off their language skills by tackling the menu. The same way that I enjoy ordering from a French or Italian menu in my home country, England.

I may be the lone ranger here, Geekfreaklover (interesting nick btw) - but I would be very surprised if this was a valid/existing reason for any restaurant in Thailand to deliberately decide on not having a Thai menu.... Can't imagine any proprietor thinking 'lets not have a Thai menu - that way we'll target Thais who want to show off their language skills'.... :o

Exactly. They could still show off by ordering in the foreign tongue.

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But, we should have to take into account that the more upmarket Bangkok resturants are appealing to a certain Thai clientle who prefer foreign language menus. They can go to these resturants and show off their language skills by tackling the menu. The same way that I enjoy ordering from a French or Italian menu in my home country, England.

I may be the lone ranger here, Geekfreaklover (interesting nick btw) - but I would be very surprised if this was a valid/existing reason for any restaurant in Thailand to deliberately decide on not having a Thai menu.... Can't imagine any proprietor thinking 'lets not have a Thai menu - that way we'll target Thais who want to show off their language skills'.... :o

I am talking about high-end expensive resturants which sell European style food and observe strict dress codes, preferential booking systems etc.

There is an elite social system in Thailand, particulary in Bangkok. For whatever reasons, many Bangkokians relate Western education, Western food and wine and the Western language with this so-called elite.

It follows that if you are able to afford the clothes, make the booking and understand the language on the menu then you have raised your social standing to a certain level.

It is simple good old fashioned snobbery employed by the owners and lapped up the so called 'elite' patrons.

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But, we should have to take into account that the more upmarket Bangkok resturants are appealing to a certain Thai clientle who prefer foreign language menus. They can go to these resturants and show off their language skills by tackling the menu. The same way that I enjoy ordering from a French or Italian menu in my home country, England.

I may be the lone ranger here, Geekfreaklover (interesting nick btw) - but I would be very surprised if this was a valid/existing reason for any restaurant in Thailand to deliberately decide on not having a Thai menu.... Can't imagine any proprietor thinking 'lets not have a Thai menu - that way we'll target Thais who want to show off their language skills'.... :o

I am talking about high-end expensive resturants which sell European style food and observe strict dress codes, preferential booking systems etc.

There is an elite social system in Thailand, particulary in Bangkok. For whatever reasons, many Bangkokians relate Western education, Western food and wine and the Western language with this so-called elite.

It follows that if you are able to afford the clothes, make the booking and understand the language on the menu then you have raised your social standing to a certain level.

It is simple good old fashioned snobbery employed by the owners and lapped up the so called 'elite' patrons.

I undersand what you are saying. I just don't buy that this is a thought-out course of action made by restauranteurs.

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I am talking about high-end expensive resturants which sell European style food and observe strict dress codes, preferential booking systems etc.

There is an elite social system in Thailand, particulary in Bangkok. For whatever reasons, many Bangkokians relate Western education, Western food and wine and the Western language with this so-called elite.

It follows that if you are able to afford the clothes, make the booking and understand the language on the menu then you have raised your social standing to a certain level.

It is simple good old fashioned snobbery employed by the owners and lapped up the so called 'elite' patrons.

I got it from your earlier post the type of restaurants you were referring to...

..my previous comment still stands though. I cannot believe that any proprietor has made a deliberate, conscious decision to not include a Thai language menu solely because they were trying to target the demographic you mentioned...it defies logic...

If this were an actual situation, they could still show off their language skills with or without a Thai menu... I doubt a proprietor would exclude one to cater to this (pardon the pun)

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When I first glanced at this thread, I was ready to dismiss it as the typical whining you sometimes read in TV. However, now that I have digested it, I have to say the OP has a very good point. Why wouldn't every single restaurant in Thailand have Thai-language menus?

In a perfect world - yes it might be courteous for a farang owned/managed restaurant - aimed at farang customers - to have the menu in Thai as well, but the comment below sticks out to me as why it generally isn't necessary:

Come to think of it, I believe I went to an Italian restaurant once in Bangkok where the waitress had to explain to my date the nuances of a couple dishes as there was nothing written in Thai about them. It didn't register at the time with me, but it certainly will now when I go out to eat.

Eating out in restaurants in the past - with Thai GF - if the menu was only in English she didn't get too uptight about it, she just automatically found one of the Thai staff and had a quick chat in Thai to work out what dishes she might want to order. She would even go and approach the kitchen and speak to the chef/staff there, if need be - whether to query the menu, or even just to see if they would do something for her that wasn't on the menu (thai style dish perhaps)

Rather than get her knickers in a knot about there not being a Thai language version of the menu - she just accepted the fact the restaurant was geared towards foreigners - and improvised.....

This would be my opinion why (in some cases at least) there is no Thai menu, or a need for one....

Can you be sure she was not going to the kitchen to visit her "Thai boyfriend"

Seriously though, maybe some some owners think that it is romantic to have the menu in a foriegn language only. To be practical it seems you would want to cultivate as many customers as possible and therefore use the local language as well.

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I got it from your earlier post the type of restaurants you were referring to...

..my previous comment still stands though. I cannot believe that any proprietor has made a deliberate, conscious decision to not include a Thai language menu solely because they were trying to target the demographic you mentioned...it defies logic...

If this were an actual situation, they could still show off their language skills with or without a Thai menu... I doubt a proprietor would exclude one to cater to this (pardon the pun)

I suspect you may be wrong.

I am by no means an expert, and frankly I have no love of the kind of places Geekfreaklover is referring to, as they are generally overpriced, and being a bit of a philistine I’m not into gourmet food, ‘nouveaux cuisine’ and all that crap.

However I used to live in Bangkok, and some of my well off farang friends did occasionally take me to such places.

There is no doubt that there is considerable competition amongst these up market restaurants for custom. They charge through the nose but they first have to get the ‘in crowd’ through the doors.

At any given time, certain of these establishments are “in”, the places to be, and the “chattering classes” queue up to be seen there.

The majority of the customers consist of wealthy expatriates, mainly working for the large international companies, and “Hi So” Thais, who do indeed read English, (most having been educated overseas), and for whatever reason, they like to identify with European customs, thinking and dining habits. In fact some of them seem to be more westernized than the farangs they are dining with. Its pure snobbery and many of them have a condescending attitude to the ‘hoi polloi’.

I very much doubt that many of the rich sons who missed out on an education as they had to work in Daddy’s business from an early age would be interested in dining in such establishments, as they would have a greater appreciation of the value of money, would show little enthusiasm in such superficial posing and would probably prefer to eat good, wholesome, Asian food, in down to earth Thai and Chinese restaurants, with the menu written in their own language.

But the owners of these up market dining halls? Of course it is a highly conscious decision not to have the menu in Thai. They don’t spend millions of Baht on décor, top chefs, imported fine wines, prime produce etc., and not give due consideration to what languages are printed on their menus.

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