Tv Members And Political Correctness

[DC1066]

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect. For hundreds of years Britain fought a war against an enemy they could not defeat. They tried everything to demonize this enemy, but all this lack of respect did was increase the viciousness of the resistance. A small island nation was able to kick them out of two-thirds of their country and by the end of the eighties this resistance movement was on the verge of toppling the UK. The British knew that they could not win so they surrendered and began showing a bit of respect. Now as far as I'm concerned terrorism is always wrong no matter how brutal the enemy is against your country, but this is what happens when the talking and respect stops.

??? I'm guessing, correct me if you are wrong, that you are talking about Ireland?

You have an interesting slant on a subject that is far more complex than just being about "name calling and showing respect" and by the tone of the comment, I'd also guess a rather one eyed viewpoint.

A serious topic, but do you really believe it has anything to do with the issue of political correctness?

I actually have a far wider view on this topic then you imagine, and also I made my point earlier about this topic. The different sides in the argument could not communicate because of lack of a vocabulary that didn't involve insults; even place names could cause trouble.. The words used would be enough to end the dialogue before it could even get started. It was only when the insults were removed that the different sides could begin negotiations.

Please don't make assumptions about the scope of my imagination. It knows no bounds.

I've seen your earlier comment, which was far more relevant. I'm just making an observation on the above post which reads as a tirade against those fiendish British invaders.

Is it Derry, or is it Londonderry - an emotive issue for those involved - agreed BUT do you really think that getting all PC about words was what ended(?) the conflict - or was it those that took action that changed things in Ireland?

I really don't want to get into a debate of the rights or wrong here - centuries of conflict aren't going to be resolved with a few words from me on TV - but call them terrorists, call them freedom fighters; call the UK Govt foreign invaders or call them rightfully elected upholders of the law, it was people taking action that made things happen and not the PC brigade sharpening pencils.

I'll tell you exactly how political correctness has eased helped to ease tensions. Up until a few years ago it was perfectly fine for grown-up thugs to to scream abuse at young children on their way to Holy Cross school. The removal of these animals calling young children 'Fenian bas****s' has certainly improved the situation; although I am sure many here would object on the grounds of free speech to there removal.

I'll refer you back to the first post I made on this thread - somewhere way back in the dawn of time - This is not about being Politically Correct, its just about being Correct.

It was never ok to do this and it never will be and just because people were doing so here and in a 1,000 other examples, on both sides of the wire over there, didn't make it right. On this we agree.

This is the classic response the pro-PC argument always raise and it is a falsehood.

Where does it say that I or others on the anti-pc side of the debate are pro abuse of children, or anyone else for that matter?

We are pro' free speech and individual rights and because of this the Politically Correct label us sinners for having an opinion. And as an advocate of free speech and personal choice, I'd fully support the rights of those families to go to school wherever they choose and take whichever route they choose to get there, but its not the PC brigade that has now enabled them to do so and it wasn't the anti PC people who were hurling the abuse - I'm sure there are both Protestant and Catholic - as well as Muslims and Bhuddists on both sides of the argument.

[DC1066]

No country in history has contributed more to the development of the planet than the English. We sacrificed ourselves tackling REAL evil. Maybe the Americans will join this fight 3 years too late as well, then double cross their allies to help themselves to the spoils. Again.

In terms of colonialism, you only have to look at Zimbabwe for how well countries fare by booting us out. There is no better nation for solving the world's ills than England. Our diplomatic service is peerless, not least in clearing up the blundering cack-handed buffoonery of the Americans.

The rest of the free world should be falling over themselves to repay their debts to us in this time of UK hardship.

Stop talking sheet about America or we will swat you like the insignificant fly that your nation has become!

Oh Mighty and merciful Ulysess, please keep your great big fly swatter holstered and save us in our time of need.

Oh please, gimme a break.

Thanks for your best wishes to all us poor things back in the UK and a Merry Christmas to you too Ulysess.

[garro]

You may not wish to give any credit to those who suggested respectful talk instead of bombs and guns. The anti-war movement who put their own lives in danger by urging people to put down their weapons and talk. Cross community organisations who saw respect as the way forward. These are the real heroes.

Edited December 22, 2008 by garro

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks for your best wishes to all us poor things back in the UK and a Merry Christmas to you too Ulysess.

I will put in a good word for you with Obama. Maybe we can put some more military bases over there.

[DC1066]

You may not wish to give any credit to those who suggested respectful talk instead of bombs and guns. The anti-war movement who put their own lives in danger by urging people to put down their weapons and talk. Cross community organisations who saw respect as the way forward. These are the real heroes.

I couldn't agree more and again you are making the assumption otherwise. It's the politicians way - answer the question you want to rather than the one that is asked.

Look at my previous posts - I refer to Gandhi, Tiananmen square and others - peaceful protesters, true hero's - and back to my original argument that a PC mentality stifles discussion.

I'm not naively over simplifying things in Ireland and don't believe that getting both sides around the fireside with a couple of pints of Guiness would have been cure to all the troubles, but if it was possible, it would have been my preference over bombs and bullets. It is the political correctness that attacks how I say something rather than what I say and mean and do, that stops discussion and builds resentment.

Maybe the disagreement is in that we have different definitions or beliefs as to what is political correctness.

[garro]

DC1066, your posts do contain more sensible remarks then some of the other people who share your anti-PC stance. I still have to disagree with you though as rather than stopping debate I fully believe that political correctness had provided a vocabulary with which communication can occur. For me political correctness and respect are one and the same, and for me human relations can only occur through mutual respect.

[DC1066]

Thanks for your best wishes to all us poor things back in the UK and a Merry Christmas to you too Ulysess.

I will put in a good word for you with Obama. Maybe we can put some more military bases over there.

Thank you again Ulysses, the answer to the woes of the whole world, more US military bases - the last great hope of mankind.

You do so help me through the working day with your words of wisdom.

There's still time before Christmas, so let me know if those rose tinted glasses need updating.

[PhilHarries]

For anyone to say that PC has removed their freedom of speech obviously they believe that their speech has no message without the inclusion of words like ni66ers and fenian b*****ds. So I ask where is the intellect in that version of free speech?

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks for your best wishes to all us poor things back in the UK and a Merry Christmas to you too Ulysess.

I will put in a good word for you with Obama. Maybe we can put some more military bases over there.

Thank you again Ulysses, the answer to the woes of the whole world, more US military bases - the last great hope of mankind.

You do so help me through the working day with your words of wisdom.

There's still time before Christmas, so let me know if those rose tinted glasses need updating.

I thought that you English-folk were so good at detecting sarcasm.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[DC1066]

DC1066, your posts do contain more sensible remarks then some of the other people who share your anti-PC stance. I still have to disagree with you though as rather than stopping debate I fully believe that political correctness had provided a vocabulary with which communication can occur. For me political correctness and respect are one and the same, and for me human relations can only occur through mutual respect.

Thanks Garro, I'll take the first line as sincere (which is how I believe it is meant) rather than as patronising (which is how it sounds).

As for the rest of it - you've hit the nail on the head, this is the fundamental difference in our argument. Respect I accept, but I completely disagree with the rest of the sentiment.

"A reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. An unreasonable man persists in attempting to adapt his environment to suit himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." This according to George Bernard Shaw.

Again back to my original argument - you have to be able to have free, unrestrained discussion without worrying about semantics or offending people because they have a different view - yes respect the difference, but allow me to have my viewpoint. If we want change, the superficial issues are just smoke and noise getting in the way of progress and this is why to me the PC argument is an interference and irritation.

Look at all my posts on this thread and point to one place where I've been disrespectful - you can't. Just because I'm not PC doesn't mean I don't want to be respectful, on the contrary, I want to respect others, I just want the same courtesy back when I choose to be a little disagreeable myself.

[DC1066]

Thanks for your best wishes to all us poor things back in the UK and a Merry Christmas to you too Ulysess.

I will put in a good word for you with Obama. Maybe we can put some more military bases over there.

Thank you again Ulysses, the answer to the woes of the whole world, more US military bases - the last great hope of mankind.

You do so help me through the working day with your words of wisdom.

There's still time before Christmas, so let me know if those rose tinted glasses need updating.

I thought that you English-folk were so good at detecting sarcasm.

We are, it's just that you colonnial folk are not so good at using it.

[Ulysses G.]

Not when the reader is thick as a brick.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[DC1066]

Not when the reader is thick as a brick.

Ouch, good comeback - that hurt hmmm.

Enough of the infantile remarks - but incidently its the PC brigade that would stop such banter as this - where's the harm?

God Bless America

[garro]

DC1066, your posts do contain more sensible remarks then some of the other people who share your anti-PC stance. I still have to disagree with you though as rather than stopping debate I fully believe that political correctness had provided a vocabulary with which communication can occur. For me political correctness and respect are one and the same, and for me human relations can only occur through mutual respect.

Thanks Garro, I'll take the first line as sincere (which is how I believe it is meant) rather than as patronising (which is how it sounds).

As for the rest of it - you've hit the nail on the head, this is the fundamental difference in our argument. Respect I accept, but I completely disagree with the rest of the sentiment.

"A reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. An unreasonable man persists in attempting to adapt his environment to suit himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." This according to George Bernard Shaw.

Again back to my original argument - you have to be able to have free, unrestrained discussion without worrying about semantics or offending people because they have a different view - yes respect the difference, but allow me to have my viewpoint. If we want change, the superficial issues are just smoke and noise getting in the way of progress and this is why to me the PC argument is an interference and irritation.

Look at all my posts on this thread and point to one place where I've been disrespectful - you can't. Just because I'm not PC doesn't mean I don't want to be respectful, on the contrary, I want to respect others, I just want the same courtesy back when I choose to be a little disagreeable myself.

I am surprised that you should quote old GBS. I feel fairly certain that if he were alive in these days he would not feel very comfortable being associated with the anti-PC crowd. He suffered from quite a bit of abuse himself you know for his liberal views.

[DC1066]

DC1066, your posts do contain more sensible remarks then some of the other people who share your anti-PC stance. I still have to disagree with you though as rather than stopping debate I fully believe that political correctness had provided a vocabulary with which communication can occur. For me political correctness and respect are one and the same, and for me human relations can only occur through mutual respect.

Thanks Garro, I'll take the first line as sincere (which is how I believe it is meant) rather than as patronising (which is how it sounds).

As for the rest of it - you've hit the nail on the head, this is the fundamental difference in our argument. Respect I accept, but I completely disagree with the rest of the sentiment.

"A reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. An unreasonable man persists in attempting to adapt his environment to suit himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." This according to George Bernard Shaw.

Again back to my original argument - you have to be able to have free, unrestrained discussion without worrying about semantics or offending people because they have a different view - yes respect the difference, but allow me to have my viewpoint. If we want change, the superficial issues are just smoke and noise getting in the way of progress and this is why to me the PC argument is an interference and irritation.

Look at all my posts on this thread and point to one place where I've been disrespectful - you can't. Just because I'm not PC doesn't mean I don't want to be respectful, on the contrary, I want to respect others, I just want the same courtesy back when I choose to be a little disagreeable myself.

I am surprised that you should quote old GBS. I feel fairly certain that if he were alive in these days he would not feel very comfortable being associated with the anti-PC crowd. He suffered from quite a bit of abuse himself you know for his liberal views.

This again is the point - we just see things differently - I firmly believe GBS would be on my side of the argument. You really think Shaw would pussy foot around a debate for fear of hurting one's feelings?

And if we really want to continue with quoting dead writers - "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire, a truly enlightened writer

The PC brigade shout, "I disagree with what you say and you are a leper for having free thought - UNCLEAN!!"

[garro]

DC1066, your posts do contain more sensible remarks then some of the other people who share your anti-PC stance. I still have to disagree with you though as rather than stopping debate I fully believe that political correctness had provided a vocabulary with which communication can occur. For me political correctness and respect are one and the same, and for me human relations can only occur through mutual respect.

Thanks Garro, I'll take the first line as sincere (which is how I believe it is meant) rather than as patronising (which is how it sounds).

As for the rest of it - you've hit the nail on the head, this is the fundamental difference in our argument. Respect I accept, but I completely disagree with the rest of the sentiment.

"A reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. An unreasonable man persists in attempting to adapt his environment to suit himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." This according to George Bernard Shaw.

Again back to my original argument - you have to be able to have free, unrestrained discussion without worrying about semantics or offending people because they have a different view - yes respect the difference, but allow me to have my viewpoint. If we want change, the superficial issues are just smoke and noise getting in the way of progress and this is why to me the PC argument is an interference and irritation.

Look at all my posts on this thread and point to one place where I've been disrespectful - you can't. Just because I'm not PC doesn't mean I don't want to be respectful, on the contrary, I want to respect others, I just want the same courtesy back when I choose to be a little disagreeable myself.

I am surprised that you should quote old GBS. I feel fairly certain that if he were alive in these days he would not feel very comfortable being associated with the anti-PC crowd. He suffered from quite a bit of abuse himself you know for his liberal views.

This again is the point - we just see things differently - I firmly believe GBS would be on my side of the argument. You really think Shaw would pussy foot around a debate for fear of hurting one's feelings?

And if we really want to continue with quoting dead writers - "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire, a truly enlightened writer

The PC brigade shout, "I disagree with what you say and you are a leper for having free thought - UNCLEAN!!"

Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it

George Bernard Shaw

[DC1066]

DC1066, your posts do contain more sensible remarks then some of the other people who share your anti-PC stance. I still have to disagree with you though as rather than stopping debate I fully believe that political correctness had provided a vocabulary with which communication can occur. For me political correctness and respect are one and the same, and for me human relations can only occur through mutual respect.

Thanks Garro, I'll take the first line as sincere (which is how I believe it is meant) rather than as patronising (which is how it sounds).

As for the rest of it - you've hit the nail on the head, this is the fundamental difference in our argument. Respect I accept, but I completely disagree with the rest of the sentiment.

"A reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. An unreasonable man persists in attempting to adapt his environment to suit himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." This according to George Bernard Shaw.

Again back to my original argument - you have to be able to have free, unrestrained discussion without worrying about semantics or offending people because they have a different view - yes respect the difference, but allow me to have my viewpoint. If we want change, the superficial issues are just smoke and noise getting in the way of progress and this is why to me the PC argument is an interference and irritation.

Look at all my posts on this thread and point to one place where I've been disrespectful - you can't. Just because I'm not PC doesn't mean I don't want to be respectful, on the contrary, I want to respect others, I just want the same courtesy back when I choose to be a little disagreeable myself.

I am surprised that you should quote old GBS. I feel fairly certain that if he were alive in these days he would not feel very comfortable being associated with the anti-PC crowd. He suffered from quite a bit of abuse himself you know for his liberal views.

This again is the point - we just see things differently - I firmly believe GBS would be on my side of the argument. You really think Shaw would pussy foot around a debate for fear of hurting one's feelings?

And if we really want to continue with quoting dead writers - "I disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire, a truly enlightened writer

The PC brigade shout, "I disagree with what you say and you are a leper for having free thought - UNCLEAN!!"

Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it

George Bernard Shaw

I'm a big boy - I can handle responsibility.

And with that, I have mine - I'm still supposedly at work today. No doubt this thread will continue to run, so have fun and I'll catch up later

[Super Hans]

No country in history has contributed more to the development of the planet than the English. We sacrificed ourselves tackling REAL evil. Maybe the Americans will join this fight 3 years too late as well, then double cross their allies to help themselves to the spoils. Again.

In terms of colonialism, you only have to look at Zimbabwe for how well countries fare by booting us out. There is no better nation for solving the world's ills than England. Our diplomatic service is peerless, not least in clearing up the blundering cack-handed buffoonery of the Americans.

The rest of the free world should be falling over themselves to repay their debts to us in this time of UK hardship.

Stop talking sheet about America or we will swat you like the insignificant fly that your nation has become!

Well, it could just be viewed as an extension of all the friendly fire you put our way anyway...

[Ulysses G.]

Not when the reader is thick as a brick.

Ouch, good comeback - that hurt hmmm.

Sorry, Old Chap, just can't see how anyone could take that seriously.

The sun never sets and all that rot!

[DC1066]

Not when the reader is thick as a brick.

Ouch, good comeback - that hurt hmmm.

Sorry, Old Chap, just can't see how anyone could take that seriously.

The sun never sets and all that rot!

Thanks for the apology Old Bean, but no need, I didn't take it seriously, just can't see how anyone could take anything you say.....

Have a nice day

[sbk]

Looks like this thread has run its course, doesn't it?

[DC1066]

Looks like this thread has run its course, doesn't it?

Yes, yes, oh God yes, the voice of sanity, please put an end to this madness

[GuestHouse]

It is fitting that the Anti PC brigade (self proclaimed protectors of free speach) should quote Voltaire's declaration of defending the views of others. His actions where at odds with his words.

He proclaimed a defense of free speach, but spent much of his time and effort persecuting Jean Jaque Roseau for holding views that he, Voltaire, and his political masters objected to.

Edited December 22, 2008 by GuestHouse

[mahtin]

Looks like this thread has run its course, doesn't it?

Yes, yes, oh God yes, the voice of sanity, please put an end to this madness

...and thanks for all the fish

[DC1066]

It is fitting that the Anti PC brigade (self proclaimed protectors of free speach) should quote Voltaire's declaration of defending the views of others. His actions where at odds with his words.

He proclaimed a defense of free speach, but spent much of his time and effort persecuting Jean Jaque Roseau for holding views that he, Voltaire, and his political masters objected to.

Anti PC Brigade? - we don't wear a uniform and arm bands, that's the other side you know

But there you go again, attacking the man rather than the argument. No matter what the rights and wrongs of Voltaire (who am I to judge) these words are appropriate and have been taken forward by many a champion of free speech and equal rights over the last couple of centuries many of whom I'm sure you would agree with.

And what is wrong with being a protector of free speech - you hurl it as an accusation as though it is a bad thing - maybe you are starting to show your true colours - the real aim of the PC crowd is starting to show itself, the banning of free speech - lets go ahead with the book burning lads.

As an aside, I'm quite happy to keep enjoying those 5 free peaches though.

Anyway, in the spirit of equality, my wife is claiming the laptop, so my fun is at its end.

It has been fun and a lively and 'mostly' clean fight. The debate continues and we'll no doubt continue to disagree, but I do agree with the mod's post that this thread has run its course, so it'll continue without me.

As you started the thread, I'll give you the courtesy of having the last word (from me at least), so do your worst, and no doubt we can catch up on your next troll.

[GuestHouse]

There's nothing wrong with free speach of protecting it. My point is that Voltaire proclaimed support of free speach but in reality sought to persecute others for practicing free speach.

Not an argument against the man, but against the duplicity of what he claimed and what he did. I draw the parallel to the Anti PC Brigade.

[Super Hans]

There's nothing wrong with free speach of protecting it. My point is that Voltaire proclaimed support of free speach but in reality sought to persecute others for practicing free speach.

Not an argument against the man, but against the duplicity of what he claimed and what he did. I draw the parallel to the Anti PC Brigade.

Badly.

The quote DC1066 posted was spot on.

[Super Hans]

You may not wish to give any credit to those who suggested respectful talk instead of bombs and guns. The anti-war movement who put their own lives in danger by urging people to put down their weapons and talk. Cross community organisations who saw respect as the way forward. These are the real heroes.

Talk is cheap. It was the people who actually put their <deleted> on the line that deserve the respect.

[Super Hans]

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect.

No I don't. The selfish and the ignorant were given a good dose of common sense, which seemed to cure the problem of Generation Me-ers demanding 'their' rights. A swift clip round the ear is a terrific antidote to terrible ideas.

For hundreds of years Britain fought a war against an enemy they could not defeat. They tried everything to demonize this enemy, but all this lack of respect did was increase the viciousness of the resistance. A small island nation was able to kick them out of two-thirds of their country and by the end of the eighties this resistance movement was on the verge of toppling the UK. The British knew that they could not win so they surrendered and began showing a bit of respect.

Aha! I was waiting for some good old fashioned bigotry against the English. The 'resistance movement were on the verge of toppling the UK?' Resistance movement? That is absolutely stunning stuff.

Now as far as I'm concerned terrorism is always wrong

It sounds very much from the tone of your post that you'll willingly make an exception if the terrorism is against the English. Or Americans. Or any other nation you hold a grudge against. I've met many Irish people over the years, almost all trot out the same lines as you, and all to a man are bigoted beyond belief. And thus the reason for your zealousy is revealed.

[endure]

I think what people like SuperHans forget is how things were before the attempt to stop the name calling and show respect.

No I don't. The selfish and the ignorant were given a good dose of common sense, which seemed to cure the problem of Generation Me-ers demanding 'their' rights. A swift clip round the ear is a terrific antidote to terrible ideas.

Like Hans I can remember the good old days before PC took hold. In the 60s we lived just down the road from a house with rooms to let. I can still remember the sign in the front window. It read 'No Blacks or Irish'.