Abhisit Vejjajiva Elected New Prime Minister Of Thailand

[MyphuketLife]

She ran a gigantic soapy. People got bathed.

She wasn't arrested and convicted for selling sex.

So she has the right to run for any position.

We may find it absurd, but it's true.

You are correct, she was not charged or convicted.... but its common knowledge that the place is a sex den (I think its safe to say that her not being charged only shows she paid people off)

This whole selection just shows that the PAD's fight to end corruption, only gave a different set of corrupt people power...

Edited December 23, 2008 by MyphuketLife

[jasreeve17]

Sorry TAWP and JD, but you need a new angle. When you or your party are in power, you support them and explain policies. You guys are so used to being in opposition that you cannot get beyong the sniping and cheap shots posts yet.

My party? hardly.

I find it interesting that you spend all of this time on the forum and still you fail to read what is actually posted.

And for the record, I find no problems with a politician being a mama-san in their previous job. I supported Flynts bid for the California governorship too. As long as some-one isn't a convicted criminal, let their actions and views speak for them. Why should it rule them out of a job? Because you are suffering from repressed Victorian sexual values and cannot deal with it? Though luck.

But, Thai law does - she was a criminal, if indeed this place was a sex den and she knowingly managed it as such.

Your second point is very funny; not for the reason you intended.

She ran a gigantic soapy. People got bathed.

She wasn't arrested and convicted for selling sex.

So she has the right to run for any position.

We may find it absurd, but it's true.

It is hard to take people seriously when they talk like this.

You know who she is and what she did, so then why would you try to defend her?

You folk have to stop taking everything as a pro Thaksin or anti Thaksin battle - it is not.

We are after the best future for the Thai people and the country. You have to be pretty sick to support this woman, regardless of what you think of Thaksin.

Wise-up Animatic your making yourself come across as a fool.

Frankly, you PADites are making me absolutely sick with your willingness to excuse anything and anyone who is against Thaksin.

[FatherF]

It is hard to take people seriously when they talk like this.

You know who she is and what she did, so then why would you try to defend her?

You folk have to stop taking everything as a pro Thaksin or anti Thaksin battle - it is not.

We are after the best future for the Thai people and the country. You have to be pretty sick to support this woman, regardless of what you think of Thaksin.

Wise-up Animatic your making yourself come across as a fool.

Frankly, you PADites are making me absolutely sick with your willingness to excuse anything and anyone who is against Thaksin.

Good point, well put!

FF

[animatic]

You nicely avoided noting the word WE in

"We may find it absurd."

Why do you assume I don't also find it absurd?

Oh, yes because you have made up your mind that I

am Padista Sheeple and so ANYTHING I say must be

mindless babble and a moral cespool.

I wasn't defending her.

And making no comparisons between her and Thaksin.

I did compare her to Chalerm. Between the two, I'll pick her.

But it's not a pretty decision...

It was strictly an observation of the THAI LEGAL SYSTEM,

and how THEY do things. Our western moralizing is for naught.

Your insulting, or attempts at insulting me are for naught also.

YOU brought up Thaksin, I didn't.

You accused me of thoughts that I don't believe, and continue to after I deny them.

Your mind is made up and anyone not 99 44/100% on your side is 'Padista'.

Well I can see without my western bias and rose colored glass of what

I WISH THINGS WERE LIKE.

Well you have your lock step point of view and you are entitled,

until you start casting assumptions on me. Then I am entitled to tel youl F.O.

You are making yourself come across as something else entirely.

Edited December 23, 2008 by animatic

[Guest Reimar]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

[Crushdepth]

This whole selection just shows that the PAD's fight to end corruption, only gave a different set of corrupt people power...

Quite possibly, but if it proves to be the case, the important thing is that the new bastards are held to the same (or higher) level of account as the last bastards. The pressure has to stay on until Thailand's major political parties start to believe that Crime Doesn't Pay and clean up their act.

It's probably going to take a while and a few more governments. And dare I say, much harsher penalties than 'dissolve the party and let everyone go free'.

[MyphuketLife]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

What part? the part that one MP is also a PIMP? or the part that we are breaking the law expressing our opinions on an internet forum? or both?

I guess we will have to start breaking the law to alter our IP before breaking the law posting our opinions.

[Steve2UK]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

Reimar, as a Super Moderator (with particular responsibility for the Computer, Internet etc Forum?) isn't this also something that you could (should?) provide guidance on - maybe in collaboration with Admin ? If there is libel on ThaiVisa, then I assume that any charge would also involve the publisher as well as the writer?

[samgrowth]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

What part? the part that one MP is also a PIMP? or the part that we are breaking the law expressing our opinions on an internet forum? or both?

I guess we will have to start breaking the law to alter our IP before breaking the law posting our opinions.

It is not about breaking the law. It is about ethic. Clinton did the break the law getting a free BJ in his office. He only break his wedding vow. Many MP in the UK quit after the people found out their they have mistress. Being a public figure, one cannot go without ethic. PORNtiwa made her money through grey business. She did not break the law, but what about ethic? The law says Thaksin don't have to pay tax on his share transection; but the PAD is accuse him of not having ethic, and should be sporting and pay tax of his share valuation gains.

[MyphuketLife]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

Reimar, as a Super Moderator (with particular responsibility for the Computer, Internet etc Forum?) isn't this also something that you could (should?) provide guidance on - maybe in collaboration with Admin ? If there is libel on ThaiVisa, then I assume that any charge would also involve the publisher as well as the writer?

I agree I would like like guidance on this as well....

[baht&sold]

PM unworried about possible return of ex-premier Thaksin

BANGKOK, Dec 23 (TNA) – Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said there was no problem if former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, ousted from office and later convicted of corruption, returns to Thailand on Thursday, or any other day, but the judicial process will proceed against him at an appropriate time and pace, without undue haste.

After a report of the statement of a Puea Thai member of parliament that ex premier Thaksin will return to Thailand on Thursday, PM Abhisit said that all persons must respect the judicial process, and that the government will maintain order if there is turmoil caused by the ex-premier's supporters.

continues: enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=7829

[Samuian]

It is not about breaking the law. It is about ethic. ....

...and about politics... to hold up high morale, ethics and virtues to battle vice is a social responsibility, the healthy bondage which makes human interaction acceptable, but won't feed anyone, neither will it make perfect politics!

It lifted the looming thread of the finger of ignorance pointing at the "smut", a healthy dose of acceptance, of understanding and common sense should be the rule!

As it was written before, nobody has yet found any wrong doing, with her, Chuwit came to fame because he spoke out about the corrupt powers using him, his buinesses, abetting the forbidden, the "law breakers" to facilitate the handouts...!

Who is doing wrong?

And never forget, innocent until proven guilty, besides I agree, I can't see any reason to have sex trade criminalized and punished by law, it's very, very outdated "ban nork, ban nork" stuff!

Edited December 23, 2008 by Samuian

[Steve2UK]

<snip>

Yes, unsubstantiated conspiracy in every broom closet. Everybody seems to be on it but not a single name to it, no substance whatsoever.

Yes, Anupong met some leaders for half an hour just before the public announcement, that sounds more like getting his approval when it was already done than hatching a conspiracy plan.

There would have been no "slient coup" without Newin's defection, and there's not even a conspiracy to show that the army was involved in that. Or elites, or judges, or PAD, or middle classes. It was Suthep, legitimate member of the Democrat party, who talked Newin in supporting them in parliament. So much for the coup theory.

<snip>

Rather more than half an hour.......... as I've posted before.

BETWEEN THE LINES

Democrat govt a shotgun wedding?

By [email protected]

Published on December 10, 2008

............................The meeting lasted three hours. After that leaders of the Democrats and the four minor parties met the press - two hours late - at the Sukhothai Hotel, and declared their agreement to form the next government.

[PS - thank you for the lengthy reply to my other post about "new politics". Not enough time to respond properly now - but I will]

Edited December 23, 2008 by Steve2UK

[Ulysses G.]

Henry, quoting 4 full screens of previous posts is ridiculous...

..But impresive!

[Plus]

From first reports I got the impression that the meeting was rather short, but never mind, still a bit too late to plot a conspiracy, don't you think? In fact they probably planned it for half hour only - hence delay with the press conference.

It was a done deal BEFORE they went to see Anupong, and Newin wasn't there, afaik.

[Sarge]

MyphuketLife's avatar is one of the zaniest I've seen lately here

it captures the essence of PAD-ism so effectively

[baht&sold]

It's unfortunate PM Abhisit has made a few controversial choices such as the otherwise capable foreign minister (forever tainted by his ridiculous comments regarding the airports protests) and also having to heed to some less than desirable choices in other cabinet posts such as the 'massage Minister' (as demanded by the ex-Thaksin/Newin camp).

Thankfully, very capable Finance Minister Korn will oversee the Commerce Minister and take the larger economic helm along with Abhisit. Ultimately, the Govt realises it must get up and functioning to take on some daunting tasks asap and will have to pick a better time to tackle the long-standing and ever-damaging quota system.

Unlike past Govt's, at least Abhisit discussed the proposed ministers with the Federation of Thai Industries first and openly admitted/lamented shortcomings (resulting from the allocation by party-quota system).

The quota system has made for laughable MP's in the past such as the previous deputy finance minister who didn't know what value-added tax was but was then promoted to Information Communication Technology Minister... (there are many more examples, too little time to go into)

Then of course there are also loyalty rewards such as Chalerm heading up Health previously (mostly defending the Chinese from melamine fall-out and proposing various alcohol bans). Not to mention his son appointed to fight social ills... and the list goes on and on.

The Cabinet party-quota system has to go of course but for the moment, Thailand has to get going again first.

PS: Square-faced 'Santa' may be landing again on Thursday rumour has it... 'IF' so, not spurred on by reindeer, rather by grinches one suspects..

Edited December 23, 2008 by baht&sold

[TAWP]

Sorry TAWP and JD, but you need a new angle. When you or your party are in power, you support them and explain policies. You guys are so used to being in opposition that you cannot get beyong the sniping and cheap shots posts yet.

My party? hardly.

I find it interesting that you spend all of this time on the forum and still you fail to read what is actually posted.

And for the record, I find no problems with a politician being a mama-san in their previous job. I supported Flynts bid for the California governorship too. As long as some-one isn't a convicted criminal, let their actions and views speak for them. Why should it rule them out of a job? Because you are suffering from repressed Victorian sexual values and cannot deal with it? Though luck.

But, Thai law does - she was a criminal, if indeed this place was a sex den and she knowingly managed it as such.

Your second point is very funny; not for the reason you intended.

Was she convicted of anything? Seems she was not. If that defense was enough for Thaksin, surely it is enough for her...

And for the record, the sex trade (and 'smut peddling', aka magazines, movies et al) should be legalized.

As per my previous post. You and the rest of the PAD tag team are just driven by a hatred of Thaksin and have nothing positive underlying your cause.

It's not enough to sit on the fence and be negative. You must support something or people will think you are just obsessed.

All I asked was that you get on and promote what is good about this new lot. IE.

Has cronyism finished now PPP are out or did Abhisit just appoint a school chum and did Chaowarat make it his first priority to get his mates brother back at the top of the Police force? After the failure of the Police to stop any problems (PAD or red shirts) under his last rein, couldn't they find somebody better or at least a bit less related to one of their ministers?

Have criminal anarchists been removed or did the new foreign minister support the PAD destroying the high season? And is it he still saying it was fun and had good food and music?

Has murky horse trading finished with Thaksins demise or has a mama san been appointed commerce minister just because he needed her parties vote to secure his masters noses in the trough, and did Newins PPP/TRT faction just get themselves back at the helm of the country?

New politics indeed!

Again you are posting lies or atleast figments of your imagination.

Just because we don't share your love for Thaksin doesn't make us fans of PAD or fans of the Democrats.

(See my sig and status and you should be, if you are reasonably educated, be able to guess what I think of most every politician here.)

[TAWP]

Sorry TAWP and JD, but you need a new angle. When you or your party are in power, you support them and explain policies. You guys are so used to being in opposition that you cannot get beyong the sniping and cheap shots posts yet.

My party? hardly.

I find it interesting that you spend all of this time on the forum and still you fail to read what is actually posted.

And for the record, I find no problems with a politician being a mama-san in their previous job. I supported Flynts bid for the California governorship too. As long as some-one isn't a convicted criminal, let their actions and views speak for them. Why should it rule them out of a job? Because you are suffering from repressed Victorian sexual values and cannot deal with it? Though luck.

But, Thai law does - she was a criminal, if indeed this place was a sex den and she knowingly managed it as such.

Your second point is very funny; not for the reason you intended.

Was she convicted of anything? Seems she was not. If that defense was enough for Thaksin, surely it is enough for her...

And for the record, the sex trade (and 'smut peddling', aka magazines, movies et al) should be legalized.

Thaksin was awful, why would you use his obvious forms of corruption as your defence?

(Stalin killed millions, if it's good enough for Stalin... - moronic.)

Your second point is an opinion, a minority one, that happens to go against current laws in this country and the vast majority of countries on planet earth.

Lastly, you and I (and the vast majority of forum readers) have a full idea of what this lady (allegedly...) did; she sold young women for sex - it's not glamorous or nice for the young women involved. You think they actually want to shag fat old tw#ts like you and me? Now she will take up a major ministry position - you believe this to be okay?

Frankly, mindless and blinkered hatred filled posts (PADites) have nothing to offer a sensible argument, as many posters are increasingly pointing out.

How can you re-read your words and sentiments without complete embarrassment and shame???

It doesn't matter what you think she was up to, she isn't a criminal in the eyes of the law (no conviction) and as such there is no rules barring her from taking office.

But I do find it ironic that so many posters here would rather have someone promoting open killing season on 'suspected' criminals [and some others] than someone selling a soapy time with a happy ending in office. Something is messed up with your priorities. Giving someone an orgasm can hardly not be a worse crime than killing someone.

[Guest Reimar]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

Reimar, as a Super Moderator (with particular responsibility for the Computer, Internet etc Forum?) isn't this also something that you could (should?) provide guidance on - maybe in collaboration with Admin ? If there is libel on ThaiVisa, then I assume that any charge would also involve the publisher as well as the writer?

I agree I would like like guidance on this as well....

So, you really ask for a guidance?

Read the following from Forum Rules:

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1) You will not use thaivisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, referencing prostitution (including bargirls and barboys), referencing suicide, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. You also agree not to post negative comments criticizing the legal proceedings or judgments of the Thai Court of Law.

............................

You specifically acknowledge and agree that TV is not liable for any defamatory, offensive or illegal conduct of any user or yourself.

Speeches like Mass Murderer (done by some member) and many others include some form you as well, would in "normal" lives have some consequences. Read again what "stoffel" wrote. And re-read the Forum Rules too. I don't have to add more.

Cheers.

[grandpops]

I find it ironic that a libertarian with a supposed education can ignore the fact that many girls have no choice but to do this job.

Perhaps you could go an take the place of a couple of them if you think it so fun and free and innocent.

You and a fat sweating 15 stone drunk. repeat 4 or 5 times per day until you have enough money to pay for your childs/parents hospital needs or education or a loan to a shark from a brother or other relative.

You can be sure that the high end mamma san is not the one giving the orgasms! It's the poor wretches in her clutches that have to do that.

Please try being on the receiving end of sex tourists first before your next idiotic rant.

You have just proved how little you know with a post like this.

[Steve2UK]

From first reports I got the impression that the meeting was rather short, but never mind, still a bit too late to plot a conspiracy, don't you think? In fact they probably planned it for half hour only - hence delay with the press conference.

It was a done deal BEFORE they went to see Anupong, and Newin wasn't there, afaik.

I'm sure you and I don't need or want to get into the kind of bickerfest so beloved of others about how long the meeting was. Self-evidently, even the occurrence of it was intended to be secret - and would have been but for the politicians losing their way and having to be guided from a PTT station by an army motorcyclist sent out to meet them.

Certainly I agree that even 3 hours is too brief and the timing too late to plot a conspiracy from scratch - as in get through the door, sit on the sofa's and somebody says: "OK, what shall we do?". But you're savvy enough to know that wheels would (I'll accept "could" if you insist) have been turning before that - and that the face-to-face meeting of the selected parties with the General(s) would be to dot I's and cross T's - basically consolidate and get all their ducks in a row before the all-important press conference. Abhisit not present - that would have been too much and he could not have later said to CNN's Dan Rivers that he didn't know about the meeting (even after it was widely reported):

DR: Why then did senior Democrats and other politicians go and visit the army commander - General Anupong? What has he got to do with this political situation?

AV: I'm not aware of, er, that kind of meeting......

Incidentally, which do you think is worse - Abhisit did know about it and lied......... or really didn't know about it? I'd say the first is par for the course for Thai politicians and the second is much more worrying to those of us with high hopes that things change for the better with him at the helm (if he is in more than name).

So, I agree it was (largely) a done "deal" before this specific meeting with Anupong & Co.

So - speaking of ducks - I can't help but feel that we've got something that walks like a duck and is pretty close to quacking like a duck. Does it 100% prove that it's a duck? No. Does it seem like it's probably a duck? You and I will of, course, disagree on which conclusion to draw. Historically, it would be almost unprecedented for the military not to be at the very least looked to for approval - in the event that they're not actually directing events anyway. I think we can agree that that's just a political fact of life here?

Regarding Newin's switch, I have no problem in going along with the notion that his in-flight discussion with Suthep on their way back from London to BKK reinforced his view as to which way the political winds were blowing - i.e. better for him to jump ship from Thaksin and move on to a role as PM-maker and general power-broker in coalition with the Democrats ( http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/17/pol...cs_30091199.php ). I've also seen no report or even claim that Newin was present at the meeting - then again, why would he need to be there? But there is at least one report that suggests that the military didn't want to rely on just Newin's self-interest:

Army asks faction head to help form a coalition

PRADIT RUANGDIT and SURASAK GLAHARN

The military has approached veteran Buri Ram politician Newin Chidchob, leader of a major faction in the dissolved People Power party (PPP), to help in forming a coalition government, a source in the faction claims. Mr Newin was invited by the army to discuss ways to form a new government after the ruling PPP was dissolved by the Constitution Court for election fraud on Tuesday. He was asked to abandon the remnants of the PPP and hook up with other parties to create a new government and prevent new political problems, the source said. The Friends of Newin faction would have the upper hand in deciding who will be in the next government.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/041208_News/04Dec2008_news01.php

Only a "source", sure.

Then there is this from Banharn:

I was 'pressured' to switch sides : Banharn

Banned leader of the disbanded Chart Thai Party, Banharn Silpa-acha, yesterday defended his decision to switch sides and join a Democrat Party-led coalition telling his former party members and executive board that he had "no other path" to take and had been "pressured" to do so.

Banharn spoke yesterday at a meeting of former MPs and the executive board of the former Chart Thai Party about the future political path of their new party, Chart Thai Pattani. Fifteen former MPs of the now defunct party are moving to the new party.

<snip>

Democrat Party secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban and Army chief Anupong Paochinda made telephone calls to Banharn yesterday urging him to stick to his decision to switch sides to reduce the current political tension.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2008/12/09/pol...cs_30090527.php

Yep, before you say it, the last line of the article does let Anupong slip off the hook - isn't he just a good guy acting purely in the interests of the nation? I'm sure he would see it and present it that way (and he has). Is he being "neutral" and "hands off"? It's a real struggle to make that one stand up.

So, by now I'm starting to hear noises that sound a lot like quacking from the thing that I've seen walking like a duck. To me, particularly given the "form" (track record) that the Thai military have, this is pretty well certainly a duck. I suspect you won't agree.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Steve2UK

[Plus]

I never said the army was out of the loop, but it still doesn't make it a coup.

Just the sheer size of this conspiracy makes it a rather broad agreement than a putsch. Surely many were thinking this many times over - breaking up with Thaksin is not an easy thing to do, especially for Newin, surely they needed encouragement and assurance. Surely Suthep's talk alone wouldn't have convinced Newin, and coalition party leaders needed to see the support with their own eyes - hence a visit to Anupong's place. Perhaps he wasn't persuasive enough so it took them three hours to believe that the army is supporting them - Suthep has booked the hotel already, remember.

It looks like Suthep was the mastermind here, not Anupong. He got everything lined up and hoped that everyone would play its part. Millions of things were out of his control but they all fell into place in the end. It was a collective effort with people checking and double checking each other, "you jump I jump".

It was the shared understanding that change of government is necessary for the country to move forward that carried it.

[permanent_disorder]

are M.Phil is not bad. and required at least a lengthy thesis paper written and do some real academic work and reseach for it. that means you have to write a "book" and a copy of it usally has to go to the university library (and is many years later source of fun if you go into politics). in the modern world you can check the library catalogs online. so i went to the Oxon OPAC http://www.lib.ox.ac.uk/olis/ and try to find Abhisits M.Phil Thesis. but i didn't found anything. but this can have various reasons. i didn't search smart enough, his name had maybe a different transliteration, the OPAC maybe not include every data, someone make a typo during the digitalisation of the traditional library catalogue. don't show up in the OPAC doesn't mean that there is not somewhere his thesis paper covered in dust in the archive.

Abhisit's thesis exists. I entered Vejjavija in the OLIS list and voilà.

new mandala links also to the OPAC entry of the thesis.

----------------------------

Author................... Vejjajiva, M. A.

Title ..................... Stabilization policies in developing economies : an eclectic approach / M.A. Vejjajiva.

Publisher............... 1990.

Description............ ii, 89 p. : ill. ; 31 cm.

Untraced Series..... Nuffield College theses (M.Phil. economics)

Notes ................... Thesis (M.Phil)--University of Oxford, 1990. Includes bibliography: leaves 86-89.

Subjects............... Economic stabilization -- Developing countries -- Mathematical models.

----------------------------

i never said that his paper doesn't exist, just the OPAC entry was missing.

i can not exclude my own human error, but i am pretty sure it wasn't there in the first half of the last week. i did try a couple of different search option. i guess both of us havn't been the only persons did a search in the OPAC or did a request at the oxford library about Abhisit thesis and because of this the OPAC got updated.

anyway someone must have his thesis catalogued and Abhisits full name got lost in the process, even a fancy digital catalogue is not perfect.

most funny is the line "an eclectic approach" in the title.

during my years at the university was the "an empirical approach" the easy way to get your MA degree, doesn't matter if in linguistic, political science, history, sociology, literature or economics and so on, the social sciences. you introduce your scientific method how you collect the Data, you present the with diligence collected Data, a good page filler, and half of your work almost done, and wrote some conclusion. boring, but you proved that you learned some scientific procedure.

our Etonian chose "an eclectic approach" sounds like the opposite but i guess it is it not, not really. and not on only 80 pages. but maybe it's only me, i don't read British scholar papers during my daily breakfast and there are other limits in my education (i don't understand Lacan for example) so it's maybe a lack of knowledge makes ""an eclectic approach" sounds odd for me. means i grow up in an other university environment of a different "climate".

and little bit strange is the M.A. abbreviation. his name?: M.(?) and Abhisit or is it for Master of Arts. an Oxford Master of Arts? Oxford and Cambridge MAs are a little bit different from what a MAs is known for at other universities. "students graduating from Oxford and Cambridge with a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree can acquire a Master of Arts without undertaking any further academic work. All Oxford graduates need to achieve an MA is to send a small administration charge.... For instance, while Oxford and Cambridge students can become MAs with a cheque in the post, the same qualification at other universities will mean a year's postgraduate work, with the likelihood of assessed work, dissertations and exams." (source BBC)

it's recommended to take one more look at the education of our eclecticist. in an older version of his Biography on his official Webpage we could read the following:

----------------------------

Abhisit obtained a bachelor's degree with First class

honour - (

he is only the second of two Thais to have

graduated with this distinction

) in Philosophy, Politics and

Economics and a Master's degree in Economics, both

from Oxford University. ... At Oxford he was always

actively engaged in the university's extra-curricular

activities

and was elected President of St.John's

College Junior Common Room.

----------------------------

web.archive of

ww.abhisit.org

feb 2005. Tip: read the whole piece of biography!

his degrees and the claim Abhisit is only the second of two Thais to have graduated with the First class honour distinction.- that raised some questions in pantip forum allready two years ago.

there someone claims that he had contacted Oxford University Archives to get a definite answer but looks like the archives department was unable to help:

----------------------------

Thank you for your email enquiry. I regret that it is not possible to tell you the name of the first Thai student to graduate with first class honours.

Statistics on student nationality have only recently begun to be recorded and is not linked with degree results. If one was to take an historical perspective, it would be necessary to scrutinise every matriculation form for details of country of birth and to cross-reference the results with the degree

class lists. You will appreciate that this would be an enormous undertaking.

Yours sincerely

Nicholas Smith

Archives Assistant

******************************

Oxford University Archives,

Bodleian Library,

Oxford OX1 3BG, UK

tel: +44 (0)1865 277145

fax: +44 (0)1865 277182

email: [email protected]

web: www.oua.ox.ac.uk

******************************

----------------------------

okay nobody wants put doubt on his BA, first class honours. he got it. But how can he claim he is the second of only two Thais ever and there are no others? others that maybe don't make such a big show of a BA degree. when you got your Ph.D. (summa cum laude) there are not so much reason, to talk about your BA furthermore.

and Abhisit got a higher degree as his BA as well, he got his M.Phil. but we don't get any information how marvellous and good he was in this one. let's have a look what the BBC article i quoted above says about the Oxford M.Phil.:

----------------------------

"There will also be an attempt to clarify

what the Master of Philosophy degree represents

. At present, an MPhil could mean at least four different levels of achievement:

• a single postgraduate year at Cambridge
  
  
• ...
  
  
• two postgraduate years at Oxford
  
  
• a student who fails to complete a doctorate
  
  

----------------------------

source BBC

oops, but good to know that Abhisit was actively engaged in the university's extra-curricular activities at the St.John's College Junior Common Room (JCR). from the St. John's College website:

"The JCR social spaces include a reading room, television room and games room, next to the College bar in the Thomas White quad. The JCR is run by a President and other officers, who are elected annually by the undergraduates. The JCR committee holds regular meetings to allocate its funds, organise social events and debate topics of importance, ...The JCR officers are responsible for organising Common Room meetings and social events, and for the provision of various facilities, including photocopying, newspapers, journals, television and video, and snacks and refreshments. " thats eclectic!

[Richard W]

Author................... Vejjajiva, M. A.

Title ..................... Stabilization policies in developing economies : an eclectic approach / M.A. Vejjajiva.

<snip>

... most funny is the line "an eclectic approach" in the title.

It certainly made me wonder if it was a failed Ph.D. thesis - failed because he couldn't derive a useful conclusion, rather like 'Topics in' in some thesis titles.

...and little bit strange is the M.A. abbreviation. his name?: M.(?) and Abhisit or is it for Master of Arts.

My guess was that 'M.A.' was for Mark Abhisit. Have we any evidence he ever took his M.A., even in absentia?

"The JCR social spaces ...

At Oxford and Cambridge there aren't university-wide student unions - instead each college with undergrduates has a JCR. JCR presidents typically don't get a sabbatical year.

[MyphuketLife]

I agree I would like like guidance on this as well....

So, you really ask for a guidance?

Read the following from Forum Rules:

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............................

You specifically acknowledge and agree that TV is not liable for any defamatory, offensive or illegal conduct of any user or yourself.

Speeches like Mass Murderer (done by some member) and many others include some form you as well, would in "normal" lives have some consequences. Read again what "stoffel" wrote. And re-read the Forum Rules too. I don't have to add more.

Cheers.

(here comes an account suspension I can feel it)

No I posted a question to a moderator because I thought it would be "fun" to waste time, I don't think responding to people that ask a moderators advice in regards to the "cyber cops" in the manner in which you did is fitting of a moderator.

What ones from me? Please PM or openly via this forum tell me what ones. From a re-read of the forum rules, it appears that we can't call the message shop in question what it really is, we can't call the person running it what they really are.... Following the rules there is a lot that cannot be said, seems like a shame that people cannot speak their minds.

[animatic]

MyphuketLife's avatar is one of the zaniest I've seen lately here

it captures the essence of PAD-ism so effectively

Zany, as in a false construct parading as actual reality.

H. was giving the official government salute,

Sondhi was just caught waving his arm.

Comparing rotten apples and aging soybeans.

Not same same.

[animatic]

It's unfortunate PM Abhisit has made a few controversial choices such as the otherwise capable foreign minister (forever tainted by his ridiculous comments regarding the airports protests) and also having to heed to some less than desirable choices in other cabinet posts

such as the 'massage Minister' (as demanded by the ex-Thaksin/Newin camp).

...

The Cabinet party-quota system has to go of course but for the moment, Thailand has to get going again first.

PS: Square-faced 'Santa' may be landing again on Thursday rumour has it... 'IF' so, not spurred on by reindeer, rather by grinches one suspects..

The Massage Minister was not a 'Newin Friend', but from one of the two, tiny, pretty darned minor, fringe parties that bailed on Thaksin.

If she is not going to cozy up to Thaksin, if he makes a slide down our collective chimneys in 2 days,

then that would explain part of her presence. Until he is definitively neutered, people that DON'T like him,

would seem logical choices for the new cabinet. One bad ethics vs another bad ethics. Which one is less worryisome?

I suspect she was never happy with his changes of hours and messing with the 'Bangkok party atmosphere.'

But that purely supposition.

So far I have only seen comments from 'Western voices' about her, no Thais seem to to be complaining...

[animatic]

stoffel Today, 2008-12-23 14:11:51 (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Commerce-Min...33#entry2424933)

Chuvit Kamolvisit is an former Owner (mamasan) of an Massage Parlour Business as well and even an MP!

Wasn't you guys against everything and everyone but special against PAD that guys whos was telling many times that you had to be convicted to first? And now telling opposit?!

Nor Chuvit or Porntiwa were convicted of any crime in the past! They're innocent people until now!

And special Chuvit was investigated a lot and the officialos haven't found anything wrongdoing by him. Same is and would be happen by Porntiwa!

Even you guy's would noty accepting to be named a crime suspect because you're not convicted. How you can take the right to tell that about other people, about people yopu know from Media only and what's reported?!

According to the letter and book of law, all of you who're telling such story and naming people to be suspect of crime, are the one who breaked the law with that speaks already, openly on an open forum.

Luckly all of you having an Cyber-Name!

Have a nice day and do n ot forget that tyhere ia a cyber crime police as well!

Isn't that something you guy's should think about?

Cheers

What part? the part that one MP is also a PIMP? or the part that we are breaking the law expressing our opinions on an internet forum? or both?

I guess we will have to start breaking the law to alter our IP before breaking the law posting our opinions.

It is not about breaking the law. It is about ethic. Clinton did the break the law getting a free BJ in his office. He only break his wedding vow. Many MP in the UK quit after the people found out their they have mistress. Being a public figure, one cannot go without ethic. PORNtiwa made her money through grey business. She did not break the law, but what about ethic? The law says Thaksin don't have to pay tax on his share transection; but the PAD is accuse him of not having ethic, and should be sporting and pay tax of his share valuation gains.

Clinton screwed up by testifying he didn't get said BJ, after Monica was blackamiled by her 'dear friend' to testify he did.

So he DID break a perjury law about testifying. but the case he was testifying in had nothing to do with Monica

and was complete and total bullshit from day one. Political hatchet job. But he screwed up, and the Senate decided

it was minor, not enough to take the presidency. Ethically challenged, but the only punishment didn't fit the crime.

Grossly disproportional.

Porntiwa made her pile renting rooms and putting girls in a fish bowl.

We know typically more than just a bath and a massage went on in those rooms.

The girls came by choice, but mostly because there was no up country support structure

to help them and their families make a decent living. So ethically challenged.

But the ethics of ignoring Issan's needs was even worse. A need was filled.

A relatively safe work environment compared to the street. Ethically challenged, but logical.

But there is a place like this in most good sized towns around the country.

And the drive-in hide your car places even more so.

It is so endemic to many thai males life, they don't see it as a westerner does...

It's just part of their culture. Not to say it's not ethically challenged, it is.

At least where most of TVF members come from.

But we are not talking of where we come from are we?

This is not a post Victorian Judeo-Christian country is it.

This is their place, and we can judge it with our eyes,

but that changes nothing about how THEY see it.

Mia noi culture is still prevalent,

and it is legal for up to 4 wives in some segments.

That certainly doesn't jibe with where I was raised.

But, French President Françoise Mitterand had a mistress for 25 years,

with a grown child, commonly known, but NEVER mentioned in the press,

till she came to his funeral openly. That culture said, it makes no difference to his job.

In the USA he would be labasted a la Clinton.

Different cultures different rules on proprietes and ethics.

Thaksin didn't have to pay taxes on SET sold shares, EXCEPT

how he moved those shares around to get into the SET and a non-tax situation,

WAS blatantly illegal and THOSE chickens are coming home to roost.

Ethically challenged certainly, and apparently become less accepted here.

Maybe not for all yet, but if it causes a level of restraint across the board,

it serves a good purpose.

Edited December 24, 2008 by animatic

[Plus]

The woman is a wife of a banned TRT exec, afaik.