Kawasaki Er6n

[BigBikeBKK]

After all you've invested in it (not only in money, but in time and forum posts) now you sell it?

What new bike are you going for?

The time and money I've put into the bike have been well spent. I enjoy working on and modding the bike almost as much as I enjoy riding it.

I'll be getting a new Ninja 650R in a couple of weeks. If the buyer of the ER6n doesn't want the mods I'll just return the bike to stock and transfer most of the mods to the new bike

Happy Trails!

Tony

[ScubaBuddha]

Without starting another ABS vs No ABS argument, let me just say that I do prefer having it. Do you think it will be to difficult to have Kawasaki put ABS on my current ER6n? Is there any reason they would have trouble doing that?

I think Tony, (BigBikeBkk) said it was not hard. Can I sell you mine?

Well, actually, to be clear, I think I said it would be easy to REMOVE the ABS for those who don't like it (Bard). Always easier to remove than to install. I've spent a fair amount of time looking at the ER6f and Ninja 650R with ABS and it really seems like a very simple system that would not be very hard to add to a non ABS model. Now- whether or not you could get Kawasaki to do it for you is another question... You could probably do it yourself, but then again, brakes are one of those things where you want to be pretty darn sure you've done it right!

Your mission, HTWoodson, should you choose to accept it, will be to go ask the guys at your Kwackerzaki dealership if they can add ABS to your ER6n. Should any team member be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This message will self destruct in five seconds. Good luck!

555

that by the time you guys finally get your "F" bikes or the ABS ER6n's I'll probably already be back at work somewhere outside of Thailand.

Well, supposedly the 1st batch of 650R's are arriving Aug. 16th-22nd depending on who you talk to, so shouldn't be much longer.

Just my opinion, but I just don't see a need for ABS on a motorcycle. I feel like maybe it's for people who don't understand the concept of threshold breaking. When I go down it's due to exceeding the coefficient of friction in a corner, not while breaking. I may be wrong, but in my mind that makes it a crutch. And I certainly don't want ABS on a track, and I would like to take this bike on a track on day. I admit I should try it before I pass judgment, but as of now if someone wanted to give me 20k for it, I would sell it.

Joe.

[katabeachbum]

Well, supposedly the 1st batch of 650R's are arriving Aug. 16th-22nd depending on who you talk to, so shouldn't be much longer.

Just my opinion, but I just don't see a need for ABS on a motorcycle. I feel like maybe it's for people who don't understand the concept of threshold breaking. When I go down it's due to exceeding the coefficient of friction in a corner, not while breaking. I may be wrong, but in my mind that makes it a crutch. And I certainly don't want ABS on a track, and I would like to take this bike on a track on day. I admit I should try it before I pass judgment, but as of now if someone wanted to give me 20k for it, I would sell it.

Joe.

Second that

Im gonna have a look at it in a couple of weeks, but mine is probably for sale at 20k too.

[VanillaSky123]

Hi guys,

new to this Forum. have read the thread....congrats...great info.

After many years on 4 wheels, I want to get some decent weekend fun again on 2...and so it seems, Kawasaki has kind of the right product for the right price right now....

I have tried long and hard not to consider it and find something else second hand (BMW F650 GS came closest) ...but whatever I do I just come back to it, due to the price.

I am not so hot for the er6f version and probably wait till the new N comes out (which should be end of the month if so to believe Kwacker Shop in Phuket), but the colors are really not too exciting....i am not for candy colors, but saw a beautiful white one in Europe...any chance to get this color here? if not, how about changing the color...is it a big thing?

My Misses like the Vulcan 900 Custom all in black much more, but double the price and probably half the fun? any comment on this one?

Cheers,

frank

[Travelmate]

ABS.

A favourite argument for many.

Mis-understood by many.

If you ride the streets of Thailand, laced with oil & diesel and the rest of the crap on these godforsaken roads. Turns real slick when it rains.

At least once you will swear thank fok! I have ABS!

You will only need ABS once to save your life.

If you have an option for ABS. Keep it.

Only a fool removes a life saver.

[katabeachbum]

ABS.

A favourite argument for many.

Mis-understood by many.

If you ride the streets of Thailand, laced with oil & diesel and the rest of the crap on these godforsaken roads. Turns real slick when it rains.

At least once you will swear thank fok! I have ABS!

You will only need ABS once to save your life.

If you have an option for ABS. Keep it.

Only a fool removes a life saver.

ABS, Anti Blockier System. One of the most ruined words in the motor industry.

Some are really advanced and sensitive, like the best systems from Bosch, and some are just a preassure valve not allowing full brake power (like malaysian JRD).

When I v seen and tryed the brakes on Kwaker Ninja 650R I will decide to keep ABS, disconnect it or replace it. If its sensitive enough to only engage when extremely slippery like described by Travelmate, and fast enough (cycles pr second), and otherwise let me brake on the edge of traction, I ll keep it. If it enterferes when I m doing fine, its gone. If its advanced electronics, it can easily be disconnected when fouling around, and connected when touring.

Now, whats the fuelconsumption like on these beautys? Will I make 20km/litres? riding at 160kmh when possible/giving average speed 120kmh on a trip. Would like to know the range before my first road trip

Anyone been to the track in Petchbury/Pranbury yet? Anyone got a GPS position for this track? Looks really sweet in pics

[Rickster]

Hi Tony, just a thought on your sale...... I think it will benefit the chances of your sale by removing the race track picture. I for one would certainly be put off knowing the bike has been raced round a track. Up to you mate but it was the first thing that crossed my mind when i saw your Ad...

Anyways good Luck with the sale

Simon

[Bard]

Phhssst Tiger, admit you got bad habits thanks to that ABS of yours... I see the benefit but I don't want it, locking front tire is almost impossible unless it's very slippery, you do a stoppie 99% of the time the remaining 1% you slip a tad you release a micron of brake power which stops the slip and voila, should it be that slippery in which case there is no traction to keep you through the corners anyway, so what do non-ABS users do? Reduce speed. Rear brake is something I never use unless wheelie anyway....

I bet we have to drink at least 10 beers when we meet Tiger to get over this but I remember when ABS came on cars and we had more accidents in Northern Europe than ever before in winter time, why? Because the idiots with ABS did not realize that;

1. ABS increases the stopping length of a vehicle a lot, a dramatically longer if slippery

2. People with ABS did not reduce speed at slippery conditions

ABS was introduced for morons who were unable to brake, release, brae during evasion or turns with cars, not to brake in a straight line, for that purpose it's inferior to conventional brakes.

The first anti lock for motorcycles was directed to the morons who were unable to leave the rear brake alone

So if you want to brake in slippery conditions on an motorbike during turns, or abuse the rear brake on the bike, ABS is the answer. For everyone else it's worthless, adds weight, servicing cost and sometimes screw up your discs which is expensive.

Using bike with ABS gives you bad habits, suddenly you stand on the rear brake (it only give around 10% brake power) you loose sensitivity in your brake action. Go on a non-ABS after and you are unsafe... granted... Then you need it

[BigBikeBKK]

^ I can't help but think that if our friend had had ABS on his bike that he might still be alive today...

[ScubaBuddha]

I forgot to mention, relevant to katabeachbums points about quality of ABS, this reviewer of a 2009 model says "it's a bit mechanical, it does jutter a little." That concerns me a little.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Scubabuddha

[BigBikeBKK]

[ScubaBuddha]

And Tony chastises us about going of topic?!! lol

[BigBikeBKK]

Who me???

[BigBikeBKK]

2010 ER6n ABS FIRST LOOK!

I went to my usual 2nd floor short time room at Hotel Kwackerzaki for a lube and a fluff and what should I find when I turn on the lights but this beauty-

2010 Kawasaki ER6n ABS!

TASTY!

Edited August 5, 2009 by BigBikeBKK

[ScubaBuddha]

That is a nice looking bike. I like the black "boomerang" and front mud guard. Thanks Tony!!

[katabeachbum]

2010 ER6n ABS FIRST LOOK!

I went to my usual 2nd floor short time room at Hotel Kwackerzaki for a lube and a fluff and what should I find when I turn on the lights but this beauty-

2010 Kawasaki ER6n ABS!

TASTY!

Did you turn on the lights before or after the lube and the fluff?

Is there a change to the exhaust too?

[HTWoodson]

^ I can't help but think that if our friend had had ABS on his bike that he might still be alive today...

Man, this ABS thing always sparks debate. I've only had one bad motorcycle crash when I broke some bones, and based on the circumstances of the crash if I had had ABS it wouldn't have happened. So for me the rest is a moot point. Should have done this, should have done that, but if I had had ABS I wouldn't have metal screws in my arm and arthritis for the rest of my life. I've never had an accident or close call that ABS would have contributed to. So ABS is right for me. Not for everyone, sure, but right for me. Bard is a very talented rider that is in another league above me.

When you are forced to quickly react to something unexpected, you will never "rise to the occasion". You will do exactly what you practiced doing the most, except half as well as on your best practice day.

Edited August 6, 2009 by HTWoodson

[BigBikeBKK]

IMHO ABS can't hurt and it can certainly help.

On a good day, with wide handle-bars, smooth pavement and some luck, it is possible to lock a wheel on your motorcycle during a panic stop and stay up. Unfortunately, you don't usually get the chance to pick the time and place for a panic stop. More likely, someone else will pick it for you. It's during those unplanned stops that having an ABS system on board can pay for itself.

It's true that test after test have shown that a skilled rider on dry pavement can stop faster WITHOUT ABS. But it usually takes said rider a few tries before they can beat the ABS. In the real world you often don't get a second chance. On wet or greasy roads ABS always outperforms non-ABS.

Ride On!

Edited August 6, 2009 by BigBikeBKK

[kirky]

tony that green a flat green or a metallic? Love the colour combo

[HTWoodson]

Were there any other changes with the 2010 other than the ABS and the new color?

[thaicbr]

Liam... there were lots and lots of changes ...........................so you have to sell your bike ..........to me :D :D OH but wait ................i no money.doohh

[Bard]

OK since I managed yet again to wind up people with ABS I had yet another good time about it. Honestly I don't see the need for it, it probably benefit a lot of riders just beware it will give bad habits and when you ride a non-ABS bike after be aware of this, so you don't lowside/highside or what have we.

Just a fact is ABS always increases the brake distance good grip or poor grip it's even worse in slippery conditions, just check out real fact about it. What ABS does is avoid blocking your tire which is a good thing granted, for rear brake users it would be extremely useful.

However do not brake when leaned over or in turns with a bike, to increase the traction you shall apply throttle never brakes on a bike. That basic thing is extremely hard to master as your survival instinct tell you to brake, and in these cases ABS will help you out, not save you as your turn radius increases anyway but probably manage to slow you down as you go off the road.

On slippery roads it definitely don't hurt to have ABS, it helps a lot but again if you manage to master brake pressure you do just as well, the ABS makes it foolproof though. A problem with this is less feeling with the traction which MAY falsely lead you to think the traction is better than it is and suddenly you loose it all in a curve.

To end it off, practice emergency braking every time you go for a ride, if you feel it's slippery slow down and try emergency braking so you always stay in control of the road condition. So all in all if you prefer ABS go for it, lot of people prefer it, some don't and there is nothing wrong on either side of the coin. If you don't as me buy galfer or similar steel braided brake hoses for superior feel and control of the brakes, it's really worth every penny.

[dave_boo]

OK since I managed yet again to wind up people with ABS I had yet another good time about it. Honestly I don't see the need for it, it probably benefit a lot of riders just beware it will give bad habits and when you ride a non-ABS bike after be aware of this, so you don't lowside/highside or what have we.

Just a fact is ABS always increases the brake distance good grip or poor grip it's even worse in slippery conditions, just check out real fact about it. What ABS does is avoid blocking your tire which is a good thing granted, for rear brake users it would be extremely useful.

ABS does not increase the distance...except in the cases mentioned previously where an extremely skilled rider does several runs and eventually beats it. The only place where I could think that a non-ABS system would beat out an ABS system would be on a gravel road where the gravel would build up in front of the tyre and may help to stop you quicker.

However do not brake when leaned over or in turns with a bike, to increase the traction you shall apply throttle never brakes on a bike. That basic thing is extremely hard to master as your survival instinct tell you to brake, and in these cases ABS will help you out, not save you as your turn radius increases anyway but probably manage to slow you down as you go off the road.

On slippery roads it definitely don't hurt to have ABS, it helps a lot but again if you manage to master brake pressure you do just as well, the ABS makes it foolproof though. A problem with this is less feeling with the traction which MAY falsely lead you to think the traction is better than it is and suddenly you loose it all in a curve.

Actually, the pulsing of the ABS kicking in (a feature that's lacking on the CBR 600RR afaik) is a good indicator that you're reaching the point where traction is not optimal for the speed. On a non-ABS bike the tyre could lock and skid under those slippery conditions and you may not even be aware if it's slight enough. That of course doesn't prevent those too hot corner entries...however, the braking isn't usually an issue then is it?

To end it off, practice emergency braking every time you go for a ride, if you feel it's slippery slow down and try emergency braking so you always stay in control of the road condition. So all in all if you prefer ABS go for it, lot of people prefer it, some don't and there is nothing wrong on either side of the coin. If you don't as me buy galfer or similar steel braided brake hoses for superior feel and control of the brakes, it's really worth every penny.

Excellent advice, even if I think you're wrong about the ABS....

BTW, haven't heard anything about that sticker set....do you want me to transfer the money to your account and you can just post it for me? Thanks.

[Bard]

Stickers are in my house in Thailand Dave, I however am in Africa, but will be home soon and when I get back on my feet I shall PM you to send them to you.

[Bard]

OK just read a government funded test of ABS vs non abs

Which concluded the ABS was way superior if you only use the rear brake in all conditions.

In dry conditions the non-ABS won with 3.6% better brakes using both brakes, 5.3% using only front brake

In wet conditions the ABS won by 2.5% using both brakes, but the Non-ABS won by 2.1% using only the front brake

Difference using only front vs both in dry from 128 km/h on the non-ABS was only 3.7%, when I did track training I learned that when you load the front brake first you basically cannot lock it after, I also learned the risk outweigh the benefit of using the rear brake by far, as it's very easy to lock the rear tire (non ABS) so the benefit I admit is for the people using the rear brake, awesome advantage for sure... In that case I would buy the ABS bike...

So it's up to your driving style I guess.

[BigBikeBKK]

OK since I managed yet again to wind up people with ABS I had yet another good time about it. Honestly I don't see the need for it, it probably benefit a lot of riders just beware it will give bad habits and when you ride a non-ABS bike after be aware of this, so you don't lowside/highside or what have we.

Indeed- a very good point. Same as driving a car with or without ABS, bikers that are used to having ABS definitely need to adjust their braking technique when riding non-ABS bikes.

Just a fact is ABS always increases the brake distance good grip or poor grip it's even worse in slippery conditions, just check out real fact about it. What ABS does is avoid blocking your tire which is a good thing granted, for rear brake users it would be extremely useful.

Hi Bard,

I'm sorry mate- I know you're a more experienced rider than I am, but your statement that "ABS always increases the brake distance good grip or poor grip it's even worse in slippery conditions" is false.

Fact is, many experienced riders can bring their non-ABS bike to a stop faster than an ABS equipped bike, by way of well-practiced, efficient, front and rear braking — particularly on clean, dry pavement. The question is can you do that under the stress of a life-threatening, panic-braking scenario? And even more to the point, how refined are your emergency braking skills on wet or dirty roads? If you have attended a motorcycle event in which BMW was one of the participating vendors, you may have seen their demonstration and/or video where they compare the braking performance of ABS and non-ABS equipped bikes on flooded pavement. The demo-motorcycles are equipped with outriggers, to prevent the bikes from completely going down. The bikes are each ridden into several inches of water whereby they apply emergency braking. The non-ABS motorcycle loses control, falls over onto the outriggers and spins out. However, the bike with ABS makes a controlled, straight-line stop.

BMW has done EXTENSIVE testing of ABS and it's hard to fault their methodology.

Comparative Braking Distances by Motorcycle

(Average of Five Passes on Dry Pavement)

Expert rider, all distances from 60 mph

BMW K100RS (non-ABS model) 153 ft

Full ABS Control 162 ft

ABS disabled 155 ft

Dry Pavement Braking over Sewer Cover *

(All measurements recorded with Yamaha FJ1200) **

Racer

non-ABS 158 ft

w/ ABS 163 ft

Full ABS Control 166 ft

Mileman

non-ABS 181 ft

w/ ABS 172 ft

Full ABS Control 167 ft

Road Rider

non-ABS 160 ft

w/ ABS 165 ft

Full ABS Control 162 ft

Tourer

non-ABS186 ft

w/ ABS 167 ft

Full ABS Control 166 ft

Mechanic

non-ABS 199 ft

w/ ABS 171 ft

Full ABS Control 169 ft

Newguy

non-ABS 180ft

w/ ABS 168 ft

Full ABS Control 166 ft

NOTE: The surface used for this test varied slightly from that used in Figure #2 to compare ultimate stopping distances. Stopping distances between Figure #2 and Figure #3 are not comparative.

* All braking distances expressed in feet from 60 mph

** Both the ABS BMW and ABS Honda ST ran using this same test and achieved similar results.

Now add water (or oil or gravel, sand, crud, etc.):

Wet Pavement Braking over Sewer Cover *

(All measurements recorded with Yamaha FJ1200) **

Racer

non-ABS 298 ft

w/ ABS 211 ft

Full ABS Control 193 ft

Mileman

non-ABS 326 ft

w/ ABS 240 ft

Full ABS Control 201 ft

Road Rider

non-ABS 278 ft

w/ ABS 202 ft

Full ABS Control 197 ft

Tourer

non-ABS 350+ ft

w/ ABS 236 ft

Full ABS Control 210 ft

Mechanic

non-ABS 350+ ft

w/ ABS 252 ft

Full ABS Control 209 ft

Newguy

non-ABS 350+ ft

w/ ABS 215 ft

Full ABS Control 210 ft

Wow! The difference between ABS and non-ABS is HUGE.

As you mentioned Bard- ABS is not very helpful in turns. I found an excellent explanation of why-

ABS In A Turn

Unfortunately, anti-lock brakes are not very effective while cornering. Ask an engineer and he'll get this far-away, glassy look and start talking about tire slip ratios, lean angles and traction coefficients. Roughly translated, it means this: The farther you lean over, the less traction is available for braking (or acceleration). Get on the brakes hard in a corner and long before either wheel lock, you'll find yourself sliding.

When a tire loses its grip, the slide is toward the outside of the turn. Getting off the brakes (or the throttle) may not be enough to regain directional control (the motorcycle is trying to go sideways, not forward, you'll need to help the process along by steering with the bars. It's a pretty intense maneuver.

So, if ABS can prevent wheel lock-ups, what's the problem in turns? Unfortunately, today's generation of ABS, though quite complex, does not account for lean angles. The same computer logic for straight-line braking (i.e., calibrated to allow near tire-smoking stops) does not apply when tilted over. Someday faster computers with more capacity to handle increasingly complex ABS programs, combined with faster hydraulics with the ability to regulate (not just modulate) brake line pressures, may be able to solve the problem.

Still, the ultimate answer, as one source hinted, may be the addition of lean-angle sensors and computers that completely take over the full-tilt braking chores. A solution that will take years of R & D to sort through, and even then will only happen if riders are willing to accept an increasing level of automation.

ABS Operation Over Other Hazards

Although we tested ABS on a variety of surfaces, braking problems could be broken down into two basic groups: Limited distance hazards (such as metal gratings, tar strips, a patch of sand, gravel, or dirt), and long-distance hazards (wet pavement and dirt roads).

Oil and grease created a unique problem. During one of our tests (run at 30 mph due to the location), while crossing a 13-inch patch of oil mixed with some grease and dirt, the tires picked up enough gunk to be a problem as the same spot came around on the next rotation, six feet down the road. After our Racer nearly lost it on a non-ABS Yamaha, we limited the test to ABS only. ABS didn't bat an eye at this challenge. It simply went through the gunk and cycled two to five times until the garbage scrubbed off the tires.

We also incorporated another test not on our original list. One of our BMW riders reported missing a stop sign on a rainy night. Not entirely unusual, except that the road ended (Illinois farm roads tend to end in T's quite often-a real problem if you're not alert) and he found himself on a farmer's lawn going 40 to 50 mph. To verify his claim of a "a very long, but controlled stop," we ran the ABS Yamaha and ABS BMW over a newly sodded, water-soaked lawn. While a series of passes would have been nice, no one was willing to let us destroy their lawn. We were limited to three test passes.

Next to ice, wet grass is about as slippery as it gets. Our reader was correct. Both the BMW and Yamaha models with ABS came to a nice, controlled stop in a reasonable distance. And yes, ABS does work on ice, too. Given that we didn't get our hands on the Yamaha until the end of March and the Honda until June, a comparison was not possible (besides, no one was really anxious to try it anyway). However, we did book some winter miles on a BMW K100LT-ABS. Winter riding also brought out another problem. In temperatures lower than -5 degrees F, the drag from the wheel bearing grease and the brake pads rubbing against the discs keeps the wheels from turning after ABS releases the brakes (on ice). That's not an engineering problem related to ABS, but rather a cold weather problem you should be aware of.

On dirt roads, ABS wasn't even flexing its muscles. Like the wet pavement tests, riders were amazed at how much traction was actually available. Gravel was the same story. Without the fear of a slide-out, you can actually feel the tires gripping against the tiny, loose rocks as they move around under the wheels. Now that is impressive!

I've never ridden a bike with ABS so the Ninja 650R will be my first and I'm looking forward to testing it out, not only on dry pavement but also over some of the surfaces and hazards mentioned in the articles above.

Happy Trails!

Tony

Edited August 6, 2009 by BigBikeBKK

[HTWoodson]

Very informative!

Unfortunately, anti-lock brakes are not very effective while cornering.

Question then. When I crashed, a vehicle had suddenly pulled into the road in front of me. He saw me coming, looked me right in the eye, but then gassed it out in front of me for some reason. It had been raining and the road was wet. I initially straight line braked, all front brake. I rarely use the rear brake so in the split second before the crash I didn't even have time to cover the rear brake (I didn't even think about it). I realized I wasn't going to stop in time, and had just a split second to try something else, so I swerved too. I may have eased off the brake some, but I think I was still on the front brake while swerving. I was just reacting, not thinking, it was too fast. It happened so fast, but I'm pretty sure the front tire lost traction and the bike slid off to the left (I was swerving to the right). The bike just disappeared from underneath me and I was floating through the air for a moment. Then I hit the ground. HARD. The guy that pulled out in front of me had put the pedal down and got out of the way so I didn't slide into him. Then he fled and left me on the road.

So my question is, is would ABS have made any difference? Sounds like no.

Edited August 6, 2009 by HTWoodson

[BigBikeBKK]

^ That is an EXCELLENT questions Liam- it's almost 2am though and I'm too far gone to write a coherent response. Let's pick it up again tomorrow!

Good Night

[Bard]

OK dudes,

Here is why I don't like ABS personally, and bear in mind this is very subjective and might sound stupid for many.

When I was young I had an Ascona tuned car, it had no abs, no traction control no nothing. The entire thing was completely up to my skills. I loved to take that car to the gravel roads back in my home land in the summer, gun it and drift as they call it now through the corners. I started to ride bikes legally on the road at 16, summer and winter, and dude if you ever go to my homeland you will recognize the road is ice and snow during winter months, I rode my bike with spike tires. When I got a car I raced ice races again there were no such thing as ABS back then. I loved it. the entire experience was entirely up to my ability to keep the car and bike on the road so slippery you will have a hard time to imagine.

Anyway my car has now traction control, full 4wd which automatically adjust for slippage, ABS, auto everything, and I sit there in my car so bored I hate driving it. On the bikes I have there are no ABS or help, it is entirely up to me. For me it's a blast from the past, suddenly I feel rejuvenated young, it's all up to me, and when something happens it's me not the bike's wrongdoing, there is no electronic brain lulling me in safety, I am on the edge and I love it. It is pure riding pleasure for me, I wish I had a Caterham and got back the joy of driving cars as well...

So fair enough, yes as I stated I fully understand people buying ABS bikes, but I won't, It would ruin my riding pleasure. So there... that is why for me.

Now over to Liams accident, if you apply brakes on a bike you go supposed to go straight ABS or no ABS. If you emergency brake and find it impossible to stop in time, release the brake go for the hole and apply throttle. If you brake it will prevent the bike from turning, and you loose traction and your turning radius becomes wider.

Anyone ever wondered why the rear wheel of a bike is wider than the front? The rear wheel does a wider turn than the front, now visualize two tires one on the outside of the other, push on the one furthest out and what will logically happen? It will push the other wheel more into the curve as that tire turns slower than the one pushing so it makes a tighter turn radius. Also for traction, A bike braking loads up the front tire and lift weight from the rear obviously, simple weight distribution really. What tire has most importance for the turn radius as seen above... the rear so that is not good. Also do a simple test when your on a safe area, do a sweeping turn and brake... what happens?

This is why I love track and safe areas, I try different scenarios, do emergency brakes, tight u-turns, figure 8 as tight as I can, drive over road edges and all sort of stuff, why? Because I learn how the bike reacts, the limits where I start loosing control and where and how the bike gives the best traction and is most controllable.

I did a big mistake when I got my new bike, instead of playing with it on track and safe areas I went on a tour. I had almost no feeling with the bike and surely enough I ended up lowsiding it, which was 100% my fault. If I had played with it until I was fully confident in the bike first it would never have happened. Luckily it was just a bruise and easy fix for the bike, but I remembered then how stupid it was to go straight on a tour without proper knowledge of that bike.

Tony I really respect you and I know you are a very good rider and a good friend, and dude there is nothing wrong for you to go for the ABS, anyway now you know why I don't like it. To be honest the handling of a particular bike is mainly up to the weakest link, which is the rider. If a rider knows his ride and are very confident in it, he will control it in bad conditions as well. ABS does remove the learning curve for the brakes on the bike and make braking very easy, so you will be a safer rider with the brakes with ABS from day one than on a non-ABS ride. However when a rider becomes confident with his bike, he will control it equally well ABS or no ABS. Normally as I know you do as well Tony we look for riding holes in the situation and concentrate about them and not braking but riding it through.

I think we all had that disgusting feeling of slippage when you ride along feeling confident, after you loose confidence on the road surface and start tightening up, it's a basic survival instinct but it makes you have less control than you had when you were a happy confident rider. Ever seen when a GP racer get a wobble, it gets worse and worse and throws him off the bike, after he falls off, the bike straightens up and rides smooth... Why? He was tightened up and tightened grip on the handlebars does that, it makes you loose control. If he let go of the handlebars he would not be thrown off the bike, so think about a rider in that class does these simple mistakes, assure you we do them more often luckily in more controllable speed, and not at the edge like they do.

Most bad accidents happen due to the rider get focused on the situation and brakes, getting focused leads you straight on target on what you are focused/frozen on, and all the brakes in the world still requires stopping distance, most of these accidents could have been avoided if the rider did not get focused, but looked for a hole and gunned through it, turning around the problem and not touched the brakes at all.

Anyway I will stop irritating and winding up people with the ABS stuff. I hope this post explained and killed the issue, I am a wind up as everyone who knows me know, so sorry if I offended anyone, it was not the objective. I respect the decision on getting ABS and I am sure now you respect my decision not having it.

[katabeachbum]

Very informative!

Unfortunately, anti-lock brakes are not very effective while cornering.

Question then. When I crashed, a vehicle had suddenly pulled into the road in front of me. He saw me coming, looked me right in the eye, but then gassed it out in front of me for some reason. It had been raining and the road was wet. I initially straight line braked, all front brake. I rarely use the rear brake so in the split second before the crash I didn't even have time to cover the rear brake (I didn't even think about it). I realized I wasn't going to stop in time, and had just a split second to try something else, so I swerved too. I may have eased off the brake some, but I think I was still on the front brake while swerving. I was just reacting, not thinking, it was too fast. It happened so fast, but I'm pretty sure the front tire lost traction and the bike slid off to the left (I was swerving to the right). The bike just disappeared from underneath me and I was floating through the air for a moment. Then I hit the ground. HARD. The guy that pulled out in front of me had put the pedal down and got out of the way so I didn't slide into him. Then he fled and left me on the road.

So my question is, is would ABS have made any difference? Sounds like no.

ABS on your rear brake and practice to start using it again, might have reduced your stopping distance by a fraction.

ABS on your front brake could increase braking distance on dry road, much depending on the quality of the ABS system.