Kawasaki Er6n

[NormanW]

http://www.youtube.com/user/motorcyclenewsdotcom#p/search/3/-Agz_iwOfxw

[LivinLOS]

Hi guys,

I have a er6n in Malaysia. I bought it used and it comes with a yoshi. The thing is, it doesn't have the sensor. Has anyone modded or installed one before? Do you use a new sensor or do you salvage it from your original kawa exhaust?

I'm a newbie with bikes but just lvoe the ride..

I thought no sensor was a sure way to cook the piston and internals in short order.

[mullum]

I just fitted a Yoshimura TRC to my 2009 ER6N today and I'm completely AT A LOSS to understand or believe that Yoshi can call it a slip-on and not include a sensor ! Especially if it is true that this WILL lead to damage of the engine. How on earth could they sell this pipe as being SPECIFICALLY for this bike and not mention ANYTHING at all about the lack of a sensor ? Nor, indeed, do they mention the red "FI" fuel injection light that stays on permanently when you run the bike without the sensor. Please, somebody, tell me how on earth they can get away with this ? Have I just spent £500 on a sure way to ruin my bike ?

[katabeachbum]

I just fitted a Yoshimura TRC to my 2009 ER6N today and I'm completely AT A LOSS to understand or believe that Yoshi can call it a slip-on and not include a sensor ! Especially if it is true that this WILL lead to damage of the engine. How on earth could they sell this pipe as being SPECIFICALLY for this bike and not mention ANYTHING at all about the lack of a sensor ? Nor, indeed, do they mention the red "FI" fuel injection light that stays on permanently when you run the bike without the sensor. Please, somebody, tell me how on earth they can get away with this ? Have I just spent £500 on a sure way to ruin my bike ?

without the sensor having exhaust info, yes. Find a way to install the sensor, and engine and Fi will be fine.

Its actually od from kaasaki their ECU allows the engine to run normally without sensor working, Most engines go to limp-mode, large diesels thats 1200rpm, car petrolengines 1500rpm, for a bike that would be max 3000rpm I guess

[mezcal]

I just fitted a Yoshimura TRC to my 2009 ER6N today and I'm completely AT A LOSS to understand or believe that Yoshi can call it a slip-on and not include a sensor ! Especially if it is true that this WILL lead to damage of the engine. How on earth could they sell this pipe as being SPECIFICALLY for this bike and not mention ANYTHING at all about the lack of a sensor ? Nor, indeed, do they mention the red "FI" fuel injection light that stays on permanently when you run the bike without the sensor. Please, somebody, tell me how on earth they can get away with this ? Have I just spent £500 on a sure way to ruin my bike ?

without the sensor having exhaust info, yes. Find a way to install the sensor, and engine and Fi will be fine.

Its actually od from kaasaki their ECU allows the engine to run normally without sensor working, Most engines go to limp-mode, large diesels thats 1200rpm, car petrolengines 1500rpm, for a bike that would be max 3000rpm I guess

Shouldn't be too difficult....just drill a hole in the new exhaust and let someone weld the connecting part for the sensor...job done. At least his is what I learned from reading all 69 pages of this thread...

Whatever you do, don't ride the bike without sensor.

[mullum]

Drilling ? Welding ? Dismantling and permanently ruining the original stock exhaust ? When did Yoshimura ever mention this when they sold me the exhaust ? I had it fitted and rode home 80 miles, I only discovered this information about it ruining my engine when I got home and googled about the fuel injection light. Surely Yoshi have been negligent in failing to disclose this information and should be responsible for any damage as well as any the cost of any further modifications ?

[mezcal]

I think bigbikebkk had the same issue with an aftermarket exhaust. The drilling and welding is really not a big deal and won't cost much.

Dismantling and permanently ruining the original stock exhaust ? No, you have to drill and weld the Yoshimura, not the stock exhaust.

Maybe one of the guys with more experience will give you a better answer, otherwise I suggest you do what I did: read the whole thread...it's very informative.

[LivinLOS]

I just fitted a Yoshimura TRC to my 2009 ER6N today and I'm completely AT A LOSS to understand or believe that Yoshi can call it a slip-on and not include a sensor ! Especially if it is true that this WILL lead to damage of the engine. How on earth could they sell this pipe as being SPECIFICALLY for this bike and not mention ANYTHING at all about the lack of a sensor ? Nor, indeed, do they mention the red "FI" fuel injection light that stays on permanently when you run the bike without the sensor. Please, somebody, tell me how on earth they can get away with this ? Have I just spent £500 on a sure way to ruin my bike ?

If you keep riding it without doubt.. Lets hope the damage is minimal.

If your going to invalidate your warranty, best to read up first..

[mullum]

If you keep riding it without doubt.. Lets hope the damage is minimal.

If your going to invalidate your warranty, best to read up first..

I guess I should have just presumed that I was buying something that was unfit for purpose as sold. I'm doing plenty of research now, and soon I'll be able to ACTUALLY HELP people with this problem. Thanks for the hope though.

Dismantling and permanently ruining the original stock exhaust ? No, you have to drill and weld the Yoshimura, not the stock exhaust.

The sensor is welded to the stock exhaust, isnt it ? And what if I wanted to sell it ? The pipe should come supplied with a sensor in markets where they are required. I do accept that I bought it from a market which does not. In the very least though, Yoshi could mention it on their website.

I read today about a "sensor eliminator" which, amongst other things, prevents the fuel injection red light from staying on.

Edited August 4, 2010 by mullum

[LivinLOS]

Your modifying a bike, surely the responsibility of the modifications, is down to the person performing them ?

As you realize Yoshi sells a pipe for the non FI model, which you purchased. If you had checked to see if the part was suitable to convert for your model bike, instead of making assumptions, I am sure Yoshi would have been up front and honest. The product isnt 'unfit for the purpose sold' in the region the item its sold, it works fine on that model of bike.

When the instructions discuss the jetting of the carb, did it not ring any bells that it wasnt for your model ?

[nikster]

Or put the stock back and ebay the Yoshi

I know it's totally uncool with my fellow bikers, but I honestly think the stock looks the best on the ER-6n. So

I know it's heavy but what the heck. At the same time, I get that saving the planet feeling from riding a bike that passes the most stringent emissions test in the world. All good, no?

Edited August 5, 2010 by nikster

[katabeachbum]

Or put the stock back and ebay the Yoshi

I know it's totally uncool with my fellow bikers, but I honestly think the stock looks the best on the ER-6n. So

I know it's heavy but what the heck. At the same time, I get that saving the planet feeling from riding a bike that passes the most stringent emissions test in the world. All good, no?

good one Nikster, you re riding the cleanest ER6 in the world:P

Mullum, the Yoshi you have purchsed needs to be moded to be used on Calif and LOS bikes, due to exhaustsensor. a nut needs to be welded and sensor installed. If you speak kindly with the kawa guys they may delete memory in you ECU, to keep warranty on engine.

[NormanW]

New rubber this morning.<div><br></div><div>6300 baht for Pirelli Dragon Super Corsa 160/60 R17.</div><div>300 baht to fit.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

will replace front next month.

Edited August 5, 2010 by NormanW

[mullum]

Your modifying a bike, surely the responsibility of the modifications, is down to the person performing them ?

As you realize Yoshi sells a pipe for the non FI model, which you purchased. If you had checked to see if the part was suitable to convert for your model bike, instead of making assumptions, I am sure Yoshi would have been up front and honest. The product isnt 'unfit for the purpose sold' in the region the item its sold, it works fine on that model of bike.

When the instructions discuss the jetting of the carb, did it not ring any bells that it wasnt for your model ?

It is for my model, a 2009 er6n. This manufacturer sell a pipe as fit for that model - which worldwide has a sensor (except in the environmental unconscious USA) - but fail to mention the lack of said sensor. It is their responsibility to do so.

Anyway it works fine. I just have a red light on that I need to fix with the eliminator. I don't actually know what "jetting the carb" means - so I'm no expert, but then neither are you, apparently - otherwise you might have added something useful to the conversation. I suggest you keep your snide comments to yourself in future. Have you never heard the saying "if you dont have anything useful to say, say nothing" ? It was made for you.

Edited August 5, 2010 by mullum

[mullum]

Mullum, the Yoshi you have purchsed needs to be moded to be used on Calif and LOS bikes, due to exhaustsensor. a nut needs to be welded and sensor installed. If you speak kindly with the kawa guys they may delete memory in you ECU, to keep warranty on engine.

Thanks for the suggestion, thats a very useful comment to make ! Appreciated !

[bluechipit]

I wouldn't run the bike with the lambda sensor disconnected. It's part of the fuel injection system. Like Kata said, get a nut welded to the exhaust that the lambda sensor will screw in to.

Matt.

[katabeachbum]

Your modifying a bike, surely the responsibility of the modifications, is down to the person performing them ?

As you realize Yoshi sells a pipe for the non FI model, which you purchased. If you had checked to see if the part was suitable to convert for your model bike, instead of making assumptions, I am sure Yoshi would have been up front and honest. The product isnt 'unfit for the purpose sold' in the region the item its sold, it works fine on that model of bike.

When the instructions discuss the jetting of the carb, did it not ring any bells that it wasnt for your model ?

It is for my model, a 2009 er6n. This manufacturer sell a pipe as fit for that model - which worldwide has a sensor (except in the environmental unconscious USA) - but fail to mention the lack of said sensor. It is their responsibility to do so.

Anyway it works fine. I just have a red light on that I need to fix with the eliminator. I don't actually know what "jetting the carb" means - so I'm no expert, but then neither are you, apparently - otherwise you might have added something useful to the conversation. I suggest you keep your snide comments to yourself in future. Have you never heard the saying "if you dont have anything useful to say, say nothing" ? It was made for you.

elliminating the sensor is not the way to go. O2/fuel mix will never be 100%. Installing the sensor is simple, 100-300 baht, and engine works as designed.

It is your responsiblility to make your engine survive fitting aftermarket parts, not anyone else, so blaming a can seller doesnt work

jetting the carb, is to adjust/replace the carburators parts to an ad on can to work accordingly.

[LivinLOS]

It is for my model, a 2009 er6n. This manufacturer sell a pipe as fit for that model - which worldwide has a sensor (except in the environmental unconscious USA) - but fail to mention the lack of said sensor. It is their responsibility to do so.

Says who ??

Anyway it works fine. I just have a red light on that I need to fix with the eliminator. I don't actually know what "jetting the carb" means - so I'm no expert, but then neither are you, apparently - otherwise you might have added something useful to the conversation. I suggest you keep your snide comments to yourself in future. Have you never heard the saying "if you dont have anything useful to say, say nothing" ? It was made for you.

Heres something useful..

Your frying the internals of your engine.. And wrecking your bike.. Riding it with the EFI not functioning properly.. And it will leave proof of this in your ecu which invalidates your warranty.

Someone (I think Tony) posted a picture of a toasted piston from someone doing exactly what your doing now.. Running an EFI bike without a bung.

But hey, if you think thats not useful info, you keep on riding with the efi light lit, and see how many months your bike lasts.

[mullum]

Here are the pics.

Can anyone tell me where you get the cover that is located above the generator ? I'm sure stock bikes in Europe dont come with that and Ive seen so many bikes from Thailand with it on,,,,

[mullum]

Your frying the internals of your engine.. And wrecking your bike.. Riding it with the EFI not functioning properly.. And it will leave proof of this in your ecu which invalidates your warranty.

Says who ?

I mean I'm grateful for any information, as long as its not just hearsay. If you have some in depth knowledge or experience in this matter, thats one thing. If youre just trying to appear to be clever, thats another. Someone had already mentioned the ECU memory, so better late than never, I guess, with the "trying to be useful in a snide manner" comments.

At this point I will point out that I dont live in 100-300 baht for welding Thailand, I live in "wont get out of bed for less that £100+VAT UK"

Can anyone with some genuine knowledge say what purpose a sensor eliminator serves if not to eliminate the need for a sensor ?

Let's get to the bottom of this shall we ?

Edited August 5, 2010 by mullum

[thaicbr]

Your frying the internals of your engine.. And wrecking your bike.. Riding it with the EFI not functioning properly.. And it will leave proof of this in your ecu which invalidates your warranty.

Says who ?

I mean I'm grateful for any information, as long as its not just hearsay. If you have some in depth knowledge or experience in this matter, thats one thing. If youre just trying to appear to be clever, thats another. Someone had already mentioned the ECU memory, so better late than never, I guess, with the "trying to be useful in a snide manner" comments.

At this point I will point out that I dont live in 100-300 baht for welding Thailand, I live in "wont get out of bed for less that £100+VAT UK"

Can anyone with some genuine knowledge say what purpose a sensor eliminator serves if not to eliminate the need for a sensor ?

Let's get to the bottom of this shall we ?

I wondered why you came over as a grumpy bugger.................. Living in the Uk explains that. If its got a bung on the original it needs one on the replacement. suck it up at get it sorted. simple really.

[LivinLOS]

Are you sure your not confusing O2 sensor eliminators that change the O2 air / fuel responses / mapping (rather than actually eliminate it, they modify it).

Such as this

http://www.carpimoto.it/EN/Engine/Electronics/Page_2/31205_76423007-Dynojet-Oxygen-Sensor-Eliminator-kit-for-Kawasaki-ER-6-N.htm

As those fit to the inlet side of the system not the outlet side.

My understanding of EFI was the Lambda sensor isnt something you can just 'remove' its integral to the EFI system not only for emissions control (which can be restrictive and sometimes removed) but as a vital part of the engine management. Who it was that posted the cooked piston photo I dont know, but that was shown as the result of running no lambda sensor.

If thats not the eliminator, perhaps post the tech specs of what you are considering installing.

[katabeachbum]

Your frying the internals of your engine.. And wrecking your bike.. Riding it with the EFI not functioning properly.. And it will leave proof of this in your ecu which invalidates your warranty.

Says who ?

I mean I'm grateful for any information, as long as its not just hearsay. If you have some in depth knowledge or experience in this matter, thats one thing. If youre just trying to appear to be clever, thats another. Someone had already mentioned the ECU memory, so better late than never, I guess, with the "trying to be useful in a snide manner" comments.

At this point I will point out that I dont live in 100-300 baht for welding Thailand, I live in "wont get out of bed for less that £100+VAT UK"

Can anyone with some genuine knowledge say what purpose a sensor eliminator serves if not to eliminate the need for a sensor ?

Let's get to the bottom of this shall we ?

Mullum, you seem to have brought this thread to the bottom. Your bike needs to have sensor installed on can. Bottom line.

Without the sensor, or the sensor fooled, you fry your engines internals in short time due to lean burning.

PM if you want me to buy your aftermarket can at half price, and I ll install the sensor:D

[LivinLOS]

If you think about it..

The lambda sensor sits there, it measure the O2 / burnt fuel / unburnt fuel ratios post combustion, feeds this information to the ECU as a voltage level, the ECU then adjusts the pulse width for the injector timing, to increase / decrease fuel, in the air fuel mixture for optimal performance (as per the ECU mapping).

This isnt something you can just 'eliminate'.

The sensor above does a different task, its job is to keep the emmisions down, so it restricts the system to its cleanest running not its optimal running.

A 'closed loop clean air' system is used on some bikes to read the Oxygen sensor (lamda) located in the exhaust pipe and, under certain conditions, temporarily change the air/fuel ratio to the stochiometric value of 14.7:1. This is to provide a chemically efficient burn for low rpm cruising and to aid emissions. The closed loop circuit has a very limited operating range, which is only in effect while holding a steady speed at certain rpm's and throttle positions. Any adjustments to the Power Commander will have no effect in this area, as the bikes system re-adjusts accordingly to 14.7:1. This ratio, while good for the enviroment, creates flat spots and a lack of torgue that is required in certain instances, even in the low rpm area. The Oxygen sensors can be disconnected but this will trip the F.I. warning light on the bikes dash.

[bluechipit]

Says who ?

I mean I'm grateful for any information, as long as its not just hearsay. If you have some in depth knowledge or experience in this matter, thats one thing. If youre just trying to appear to be clever, thats another. Someone had already mentioned the ECU memory, so better late than never, I guess, with the "trying to be useful in a snide manner" comments.

At this point I will point out that I dont live in 100-300 baht for welding Thailand, I live in "wont get out of bed for less that £100+VAT UK"

Can anyone with some genuine knowledge say what purpose a sensor eliminator serves if not to eliminate the need for a sensor ?

Let's get to the bottom of this shall we ?

Is this guy for real?

I'd just let him go ahead and ignore everyone's advice on here and let him find out what a lean mix will do to his pistons...

If he's living in the UK, why is he posting on a Thai Bike forum? Go find a UK ER-6N forum and see that they will give him the same advice.

Matt.

[VocalNeal]

Mullum,

......... as the North American spec bikes don't have an oxygen sensor. But, having read many a post from our UK based friends, it seems the predictions of doom and gloom on sensor disconnect are exaggerated. Disconnecting the oxygen sensor will result in the ECU going to a default setting for "failed" sensor. It will not be the leanest possible setting, because it can't tell how the engine is running. Actually, some people that complained about surging at low RPM/throttle settings say disconnecting the oxygen sensor actually eliminated the surging, i.e. it's not as lean as it was before.

Of course, you could look for a cheap, used US spec ECM on e-Bay and solve the problem even better than with an eliminator.

Maybe

[bluechipit]

Mullum,

......... as the North American spec bikes don't have an oxygen sensor. But, having read many a post from our UK based friends, it seems the predictions of doom and gloom on sensor disconnect are exaggerated. Disconnecting the oxygen sensor will result in the ECU going to a default setting for "failed" sensor. It will not be the leanest possible setting, because it can't tell how the engine is running. Actually, some people that complained about surging at low RPM/throttle settings say disconnecting the oxygen sensor actually eliminated the surging, i.e. it's not as lean as it was before.

Of course, you could look for a cheap, used US spec ECM on e-Bay and solve the problem even better than with an eliminator.

Maybe

Surely you'd want your bike running optimally? i.e. with the sensor in?

Matt.

[LivinLOS]

Mullum,

......... as the North American spec bikes don't have an oxygen sensor. But, having read many a post from our UK based friends, it seems the predictions of doom and gloom on sensor disconnect are exaggerated. Disconnecting the oxygen sensor will result in the ECU going to a default setting for "failed" sensor. It will not be the leanest possible setting, because it can't tell how the engine is running. Actually, some people that complained about surging at low RPM/throttle settings say disconnecting the oxygen sensor actually eliminated the surging, i.e. it's not as lean as it was before.

Of course, you could look for a cheap, used US spec ECM on e-Bay and solve the problem even better than with an eliminator.

Maybe

Dont forget, theres 2 sensors being mentioned.. One is the O2 sensor on the airbox and one is the lambda sensor on the exhaust.. I suspect this may be talking about the former.

[skybluestu]

Mullum,

......... as the North American spec bikes don't have an oxygen sensor. But, having read many a post from our UK based friends, it seems the predictions of doom and gloom on sensor disconnect are exaggerated. Disconnecting the oxygen sensor will result in the ECU going to a default setting for "failed" sensor. It will not be the leanest possible setting, because it can't tell how the engine is running. Actually, some people that complained about surging at low RPM/throttle settings say disconnecting the oxygen sensor actually eliminated the surging, i.e. it's not as lean as it was before.

Of course, you could look for a cheap, used US spec ECM on e-Bay and solve the problem even better than with an eliminator.

Maybe

Dont forget, theres 2 sensors being mentioned.. One is the O2 sensor on the airbox and one is the lambda sensor on the exhaust.. I suspect this may be talking about the former.

The o2 sensor and lambda sensor are the same thing, what he's moaning about is that the exhaust he bought doesn't have the 'bung' which allows the sensor access to the exhaust fumes. If he spent more time on other forums (instead of being rude to people who are trying to help him on this one) there are many many people who have had the same, easily fixed problem, and he would know by now what to do. There's a company in India who sell the exact size bung he needs and he could then have it welded onto the exhaust he bought, problem solved!

[LivinLOS]

Mullum,

......... as the North American spec bikes don't have an oxygen sensor. But, having read many a post from our UK based friends, it seems the predictions of doom and gloom on sensor disconnect are exaggerated. Disconnecting the oxygen sensor will result in the ECU going to a default setting for "failed" sensor. It will not be the leanest possible setting, because it can't tell how the engine is running. Actually, some people that complained about surging at low RPM/throttle settings say disconnecting the oxygen sensor actually eliminated the surging, i.e. it's not as lean as it was before.

Of course, you could look for a cheap, used US spec ECM on e-Bay and solve the problem even better than with an eliminator.

Maybe

Dont forget, theres 2 sensors being mentioned.. One is the O2 sensor on the airbox and one is the lambda sensor on the exhaust.. I suspect this may be talking about the former.

The o2 sensor and lambda sensor are the same thing, what he's moaning about is that the exhaust he bought doesn't have the 'bung' which allows the sensor access to the exhaust fumes. If he spent more time on other forums (instead of being rude to people who are trying to help him on this one) there are many many people who have had the same, easily fixed problem, and he would know by now what to do. There's a company in India who sell the exact size bung he needs and he could then have it welded onto the exhaust he bought, problem solved!

I am not sure, I think people are possibly confusing 2 sensors... or at least I have read about 2 different types of O2 sensor.

According to a photo guide I read yesterday, theres an O2 sensor on the airbox, this it seems can be bypassed with an O2 sensor eliminator.

Theres also for sure the lambda sensor on the exhaust, I have always been told this cannot be bypassed and still have the engine run optimally. There is a product on the market (Nitro X) with a badly created website, no instructions and 404 errors all over the site. Not filling me with confidence for a well made product.

Theres also lambda sensor eliminators on the market, dynojet have one, but this device (the lambda sensor eliminator) seems to be paired with a power commander and often autotune, its not a solution on its own, its part of a power commander full system replacement so the power commander and autotune take over engine sensing and management, This device merely shuts off the warning light but you have to use their full system to modulate the pulse width of the injections. Its not plug it in and ride away, its a way of running power commander V, autotune, its own lambda, the sensor eliminator to 'trick' the ECU to work, etc.

See http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248512

I suspect the poster has seen one of these, for a 20 usd price and is thinking of just 'eliminating' his problem when in fact all he will do is turn a warning light off and at the same time trash the engine.

Modern electronic bike mods need research. A lot more detail than whacking a non EFI model slip on tailpipe onto an EFI model machine.

Edited August 6, 2010 by LivinLOS