3 Million Tourists Disappear During December - March

[Koo82]

as for the foreigners and ex-pat business people I've seen cheering on that PAD group on this and other websites - what goes around comes around I guess. How many of them are still cheering now?

Who are they cheering now?

They try to let us forget that PAD and those who are Pro-PAD did that huge damage to Thailand's image. It will take years for tourists to start to come back.

[mommysboy]

How many jobs is that reduction going to cost?

1000's?

10000's?

100000's?

More?

All hail the Airport Shutdowns, Government buildings takeovers and general unlawful demonstrations.

Way to go PAD.

I don't think this is just about Thai problems. Economic downturn plus low exchange rate being the major factors, but I do think Thailand is not as popular as it once was. The thing is it used to be cheap but now you look at value for money and it suddenly looks like a poor value product.

5 star location - nahhh!

"Way to go" is one of those great expressions from those ingenious upstarts from across the big pond. what is the English equivalent. Is it 'there you go"?

[annamaria4711]

The economy has being hit by all sides BUT the 'Silent Coup' that has occured over the past 2 yrs has not helped Thailand at all.

The international community know full well what is going on.

I post a small editorial from another blog, it states why the company is halting investment in Thailand and the last sentence then caps it by saying, however we'll still be investing in other countries like Malaysia, Vietnam etc....

The military, the elite, the Demons, the PAD all have played a part in robbing Thailand of its growth prospects

Minor International, one of Asia-Pacific’s largest hospitality companies, has begun a review of its hotel investment plans and may delay the opening of the St Regis Bangkok luxury hotel and residence project that is currently scheduled for completion in 2010, said CEO William Heinecke.

"We´re studying it carefully. We can always delay if we´re in deep economic recession," said Heinecke. "Thailand is now in the perfect storm. Aside from global recession, there are demonstrations, government instability and the closure of airports. It´s the perfect instability.”

In the wake of the November airport closures Minor´s hotel properties witnessed booking cancellations worth Bt180 million, excluding potential income from food and beverage. Heinecke said that the group had not recovered what it lost and the situation would not be normal until political stability was reinstated.

The group´s average occupancy rate in this year´s high season is presently running at 70 per cent, down from 99 per cent last peak season. In resort areas the impact has been particularly severe; the newly opened Anantara at Sikao is running at 40-per-cent occupancy, while the occupancy rate of the Anantara Phuket is at 60 per cent.

In addition to the St Regis Bangkok, the Anantara Kao Lak, also scheduled for completion in 2010, could be delayed if the economic situation deteriorates further.

Minor however will proceed with its investment plans overseas, with the Anantara Kihavah Huravalhu in the Maldives and properties in Tanzania, Dubai, Vietnam and Abu Dhabi

[SomchaiCNX]

The economy has being hit by all sides BUT the 'Silent Coup' that has occured over the past 2 yrs has not helped Thailand at all.

The international community know full well what is going on.

I post a small editorial from another blog, it states why the company is halting investment in Thailand and the last sentence then caps it by saying, however we'll still be investing in other countries like Malaysia, Vietnam etc....

The military, the elite, the Demons, the PAD all have played a part in robbing Thailand of its growth prospects

Minor International, one of Asia-Pacific's largest hospitality companies, has begun a review of its hotel investment plans and may delay the opening of the St Regis Bangkok luxury hotel and residence project that is currently scheduled for completion in 2010, said CEO William Heinecke.

"We´re studying it carefully. We can always delay if we´re in deep economic recession," said Heinecke. "Thailand is now in the perfect storm. Aside from global recession, there are demonstrations, government instability and the closure of airports. It´s the perfect instability."

In the wake of the November airport closures Minor´s hotel properties witnessed booking cancellations worth Bt180 million, excluding potential income from food and beverage. Heinecke said that the group had not recovered what it lost and the situation would not be normal until political stability was reinstated.

The group´s average occupancy rate in this year´s high season is presently running at 70 per cent, down from 99 per cent last peak season. In resort areas the impact has been particularly severe; the newly opened Anantara at Sikao is running at 40-per-cent occupancy, while the occupancy rate of the Anantara Phuket is at 60 per cent.

In addition to the St Regis Bangkok, the Anantara Kao Lak, also scheduled for completion in 2010, could be delayed if the economic situation deteriorates further.

Minor however will proceed with its investment plans overseas, with the Anantara Kihavah Huravalhu in the Maldives and properties in Tanzania, Dubai, Vietnam and Abu Dhabi

I will not cry if this Mr. Heinecke would move his business somewhere else. Bye bye.

[ronz28]

So they estimate that the average tourist only spends about 36,333 baht times 3 million tourists is 109 billion baht. I wish my vacations to Thailand only cost 36,000 baht. Are they under estimating the impact of tourism on the economy?

[JetsetBkk]

Are you aware that Ya Mo is a legendary character with about as much historical fact surrounding her as an Old Testament minor player? Most of the "facts" attributed to her legend were gleaned from a 1960s nation-building propaganda film, which helped to justify Thailand (Siam's) claim over Isaan during a period of Lao ethnic-identity resurgence. The statue in Khorat that everyone pays tribute to was constructed after that film, Before that no-one gave a hoot about Ya Mo as they'd mostly never heard her name. And by the way, she is attributed with defeating the Lao army, not Burmese as you insinuate.

Plachon, I am indeed aware that Ya Mo is attributed to defeating the Lao army (not the Burmese), however when making my post I didn't feel the need to differentiate between Taksin the great defeating the Burmese and Ya Mo defeating the Lao, it just didn't seem to be germane to the point that I was making at the time Since you seem to be the kind to pick nits, then perhaps I should educate you a little as well my friend There has been a monument to Ya Mo in central Korat city since the mid 1930's (not the 1960's as you seem to infer) and there have been monuments to Ya Mo in the countryside since the 1800's! Ya Mo (Suranaree) was very much a real person, although the stories about her I am certain have been greatly embellished over the past 200 years. She was more of a Mahta Hari type than the warrior princess that she so often gets potrayed as, but to compare her to some fictional biblical character of 2500 years ago shows your lack of objectivity on this subject. I am not certain why you would have this bias against Lady Mo, unless perhaps you are of Laotian ancestry and are embarrassed that a woman from Korat played a key role in the defeat of the Lao Army 200 years ago

Pity. This was getting really interesting, but 3 weeks later and still no retort.

[plachon]

Are you aware that Ya Mo is a legendary character with about as much historical fact surrounding her as an Old Testament minor player? Most of the "facts" attributed to her legend were gleaned from a 1960s nation-building propaganda film, which helped to justify Thailand (Siam's) claim over Isaan during a period of Lao ethnic-identity resurgence. The statue in Khorat that everyone pays tribute to was constructed after that film, Before that no-one gave a hoot about Ya Mo as they'd mostly never heard her name. And by the way, she is attributed with defeating the Lao army, not Burmese as you insinuate.

Plachon, I am indeed aware that Ya Mo is attributed to defeating the Lao army (not the Burmese), however when making my post I didn't feel the need to differentiate between Taksin the great defeating the Burmese and Ya Mo defeating the Lao, it just didn't seem to be germane to the point that I was making at the time Since you seem to be the kind to pick nits, then perhaps I should educate you a little as well my friend There has been a monument to Ya Mo in central Korat city since the mid 1930's (not the 1960's as you seem to infer) and there have been monuments to Ya Mo in the countryside since the 1800's! Ya Mo (Suranaree) was very much a real person, although the stories about her I am certain have been greatly embellished over the past 200 years. She was more of a Mahta Hari type than the warrior princess that she so often gets potrayed as, but to compare her to some fictional biblical character of 2500 years ago shows your lack of objectivity on this subject. I am not certain why you would have this bias against Lady Mo, unless perhaps you are of Laotian ancestry and are embarrassed that a woman from Korat played a key role in the defeat of the Lao Army 200 years ago

Pity. This was getting really interesting, but 3 weeks later and still no retort.

No retort cos no see! Thanks to you I've now been reunited with this post.

Vegasvic, I am neither Lao nor Thai, but have lived on both sides of the Mekong and would not be embarassed to hold ancestry of either nation. However, if I was born on the Thai side of the border the version of history I was spoonfed in school would be far more biased in my opinion than the Lao version, espcially with regards to the historical events surrounding Isaan over the last few hundred years. Ya Mo, imo again, is a real character who has been embellished with with more mystique than King Arthur and Merlin put together. There was no written history to all intents and purposes at that time and we must rely mainly on mixed verbal accounts by the victors and vanquished passed down to later generations about what happened, and these not surprisingly have been embellished and distorted over time. Thailand definitely needed a heroine to implant some national pride in the unruly ethnic Lao of Isaan who might return to their roots and dashing Ya Mo fitted the bill perfectly. According to a Thai Masters student (I think from Chula), the movie was the means to get her known by all as a regional icon and the statue came after. However, if you can provide more information on these older monuments you mention to Ya Mo in the countryside, I would be happy to view th evidence.

Lao students of course have a very different understanding about how events unfolded in Isaan, both before and after the sacking of Vientiane and removal of the Emerald Buddha in 1827.

[Ricardo]

as for the foreigners and ex-pat business people I've seen cheering on that PAD group on this and other websites - what goes around comes around I guess. How many of them are still cheering now?

Who are they cheering now?

They try to let us forget that PAD and those who are Pro-PAD did that huge damage to Thailand's image. It will take years for tourists to start to come back.

Perhaps businessmen would cheer the new so-far more-stable government, which has democratically followed the dysfunctional PPP-led coalition, and is working to get things moving again ?

And do Thaksin's continuing media-interviews, to any journalist who will listen to him, really not continue to damage further Thailand's international reputation ? Or those peaceful democratic demonstrations, by the red-shirts, which sometimes also turn violent ? There is plenty of blame, to spread round, as well as from the PAD's recent actions.

The tourists started to return, within days of the re-opening of the airport, but don't forget that there is a global economic crisis, and Thailand is no-longer the cheap-and-cheerful place it once was, thanks partly to the BoT Strong-Baht policy and several years of government-policies which make Thailand less-'sanuk' than before, so tourism was always going to have at least a couple of slow years here.

[paulfromphuket]

The economy has being hit by all sides BUT the 'Silent Coup' that has occured over the past 2 yrs has not helped Thailand at all.

The international community know full well what is going on.

I post a small editorial from another blog, it states why the company is halting investment in Thailand and the last sentence then caps it by saying, however we'll still be investing in other countries like Malaysia, Vietnam etc....

The military, the elite, the Demons, the PAD all have played a part in robbing Thailand of its growth prospects

Minor International, one of Asia-Pacific's largest hospitality companies, has begun a review of its hotel investment plans and may delay the opening of the St Regis Bangkok luxury hotel and residence project that is currently scheduled for completion in 2010, said CEO William Heinecke.

"We´re studying it carefully. We can always delay if we´re in deep economic recession," said Heinecke. "Thailand is now in the perfect storm. Aside from global recession, there are demonstrations, government instability and the closure of airports. It´s the perfect instability."

In the wake of the November airport closures Minor´s hotel properties witnessed booking cancellations worth Bt180 million, excluding potential income from food and beverage. Heinecke said that the group had not recovered what it lost and the situation would not be normal until political stability was reinstated.

The group´s average occupancy rate in this year´s high season is presently running at 70 per cent, down from 99 per cent last peak season. In resort areas the impact has been particularly severe; the newly opened Anantara at Sikao is running at 40-per-cent occupancy, while the occupancy rate of the Anantara Phuket is at 60 per cent.

In addition to the St Regis Bangkok, the Anantara Kao Lak, also scheduled for completion in 2010, could be delayed if the economic situation deteriorates further.

Minor however will proceed with its investment plans overseas, with the Anantara Kihavah Huravalhu in the Maldives and properties in Tanzania, Dubai, Vietnam and Abu Dhabi

I will not cry if this Mr. Heinecke would move his business somewhere else. Bye bye.

Can I ask you why you would be happy to see this companies investments go or de delayed? Has he upset you perhaps, are you happy to see 1000s of jobs lost.

[STEELINOX]

Would anyone agree that the on-going violence by the red-shirts, blockading courts or throwing bricks & acid at cars, and being televised round the world, also contributes to an off-putting image of continuing violence ?

Or perhaps the average asian or farang tourist can tell the difference, between patriots protesting a 'silent coup', and patriots protesting undemocratic constitutional changes ?

Red shirts, yelo shirts; it doesn't matter. What matters is when you are living in the US, and turn on your local OR national news and see Thai people - not uniformed mind you - firing revolvers into crowds standing with sticks or pipes, its cause to wonder, and any numbskull with half a brain cell would cancel their reservations at the Peninsula. Its pretty sad to see. Then top it off with HiSo's being burned and not one Government official having the frakking guts to say, yeah- we are accountable, makes for an already bad situation + add in world economic turmoil, a recession - is what we in the States have the guts to call it; and you've got the perfect storm for one hel_l of a bad year for Thai's !

Wake up LOS ~ You ARE in a recession !

[baht&sold]

I will not cry if this Mr. Heinecke would move his business somewhere else. Bye bye.

Such a reckless statement - Mr Heinecke's Minor Group employs tens of thousands of Thais and no one of any political stripe should want to see these jobs lost.

Personally I admire the man, as he's one of the most successful Expat entrepreneurs in Thailand. He's also one savvy business person - Mr Heinecke's posturing as quoted earlier and in another thread is probably more to do with lobbying for longer term tax-breaks from the Govt. Just pure business-savvy on Mr Heinecke's part as particularly the 5-star hotel sector will likely suffer greatest in the larger global economic crisis. Personally wish for Minor Group and their thousands of employees to weather the larger economic crisis as well as can be.

Edited January 11, 2009 by baht&sold

[dumball]

Ooh I better cancel my holiday booking to Thailand because they might shut the airport for a few days and I'll have to stay on the beach a bit longer.

Maybe I should choose somewhere less dangerous like Zimbabwe.

~runs to cancel holiday, not~

I know some people who cancelled their annual holiday to Thailand and will be going to Malaysia instead. They run a small family business and can't afford being stranded in Thailand. Spending a few extra unplanned days in Thailand is not something they are prepared to risk. Add to this reports from unhappy tourists in their local paper so they decided to give Thailand a miss this time.

If someone can't risk being away from their home/business for a few days for fear of bankruptcy then they shouldn't be going on holiday in the first place.

You read so much into what is a plausable response , your sage advise will most probably be noted , travellers should not need or have to 'RISK ' anything due to the irisponsibility of any countries government or the rampaging of its citizens who give no thought to tourists who have spent thier hard earned money to visit in the first instance .

The end result of unthinking people , which incidentaly includes your good (?) self , is what now ails the tourism industry that once was in Thailand , a little thought and consideration to the plight of people , would go a lot further in reconciliation than your 'Wanabee ' post . Keep it up and watch thousands thrown out of work partialy due to that kind of thinking and lack of resposibility by the powers that be . Mai pen rai jack , pull up the ladder I'm already on board , as the matelot shouted .

[Chang_paarp]

3 million people disappear...wow, hope hey all find them in the end. Would be awful if something would happened to them.

Their relatives most be worried.

Have they been found yet?

Their families must be very worried by now.

[johnwills]

The facts of this GLOBAL recession is that Thailand is not now, on the top of any Tourist destinations. Certainly not from the Countries that have in the past fuelled the Tourist Industry.

Those ex-pats who have a GB pension will soon notice the loss of a up to a third in their benefit.

I am not a doom merchant, but everything in the UK (investment wise) appart from premium bonds have gone down through the floor, as you all well know. I will always support Thailand, it's my second home......!!! However, it will not be the same for everyone......!!!

I'm not a pensioner but have lost 60% of my income due to the exchange rate and interest rates at an historic low in the UK. Luckily, its still cheap to live here in comparison, just means that the locals (shops, restaurants etc) will get a lot less of my money than they did in previous years.

Edited Typo

Edited January 11, 2009 by johnwills

[fred2007]

I just had some good news for you guys all 3 million tourists missing during the period of Dec-March have been found save and and well in theyre home countries. According to Reuter, with a bit of help from the CIA and associated agencies.

[astral]

3 million people disappear...wow, hope hey all find them in the end. Would be awful if something would happened to them.

Their relatives most be worried.

Probably abducted by aliens.............

[torrenova]

Tongsai Bay is now run by the son of the founder who went to that most famous of universities in the UK, Norwich. famous that is for a one time degree in kite flying !

Sending back a bottle of white wine because it was not chilled (because the dam_n fridge was not set correctly), the owner enquired as to the problem. As often happens to those who inherit wealth without any effort, he was nonplussed and said he would just drink it with his dinner !

When I went the rates were high and the top end villas (now significantly increased in number) were empty but just OTT price wise. Their place was so so but we never went back. I have noticed rates over the last few years and they went crazy, as if it was some 1st class world beater instead of some moderate resort stuck away in it's own corner of nowhere really.

Anyway, to move on. There is no way the villages can absorb any returnees. They will return without any money to invest and there are already too few jobs. The result will be wage deflation which is already below the minimum wage in many places. Remember that the families not exist on money remitted from those who work away. It will be a double whammy, more mouths to feed and less income. Obviously crime will increase as will all acts of lawlessness. No doubt the "rich" westerner with his new house will be left unscathed - not !

There should be a growth in the security business though!

In the ultra short term people will go home but in the near short term they will leave again as even if they are unable to send money home, they will be helping by being one less mouth to feed. I guess some girls will come home to a shock, shocked to see how all they earned on their backs has been wasted and even debt has been acquired on the back of her monthly stipend.

The tourists will not return. This is a cyclical shift. The problem is that many people were already questioning the Thai value for money and the way that Thailand is changing. This is not my hypothesis, this is empirical data from people who I know and through them from additional sources.

Already Thailand was going to face a massive downturn from UK visitors next year. The time lag between a problem and tourists disappearing is usually in the months range as many plan ahead. If you have bought your flight or package and the FX rate goes down the toilet, then you still go. You just don't go back or book next time. The airport fiasco meant that people had to make immediate decisions and with many having lost out financially as well as having ruined holidays, they will just not return. The risks have become too high. How many PMs and changes of governments in 3 years ? We've all lost count. Throw in another coup and you might as well close the doors for 10 years.

I think I'll get onto some 5* hotels and see if I can't benefit from this !

[Ricardo]

I just had some good news for you guys all 3 million tourists missing during the period of Dec-March have been found save and and well in theyre home countries. According to Reuter, with a bit of help from the CIA and associated agencies.

Thank God ! I had feared that this was yet another case of 'tourist-rustling' !

[JetsetBkk]

No retort cos no see! Thanks to you I've now been reunited with this post...

My pleasure! Thanks for your last post and to VegasVic for his. I like reading about the history of SE Asia over the last couple of centuries ago as it gives a background to how things are now.

[baht&sold]

The tourists will not return.

And on this day, Tourism in Thailand was officially declared dead... (by obvious desperate narrow political interests)

Might as well pack it up (some would say)

[SomchaiCNX]

I will not cry if this Mr. Heinecke would move his business somewhere else. Bye bye.

Such a reckless statement - Mr Heinecke's Minor Group employs tens of thousands of Thais and no one of any political stripe should want to see these jobs lost.

Personally I admire the man, as he's one of the most successful Expat entrepreneurs in Thailand. He's also one savvy business person - Mr Heinecke's posturing as quoted earlier and in another thread is probably more to do with lobbying for longer term tax-breaks from the Govt. Just pure business-savvy on Mr Heinecke's part as particularly the 5-star hotel sector will likely suffer greatest in the larger global economic crisis. Personally wish for Minor Group and their thousands of employees to weather the larger economic crisis as well as can be.

Maybe.

But will I mention just one reason, because I don't want to go Off Topic.

About 25% of the school kids are overweight as a result of his success.

[cmsally]

I will not cry if this Mr. Heinecke would move his business somewhere else. Bye bye.

Such a reckless statement - Mr Heinecke's Minor Group employs tens of thousands of Thais and no one of any political stripe should want to see these jobs lost.

Personally I admire the man, as he's one of the most successful Expat entrepreneurs in Thailand. He's also one savvy business person - Mr Heinecke's posturing as quoted earlier and in another thread is probably more to do with lobbying for longer term tax-breaks from the Govt. Just pure business-savvy on Mr Heinecke's part as particularly the 5-star hotel sector will likely suffer greatest in the larger global economic crisis. Personally wish for Minor Group and their thousands of employees to weather the larger economic crisis as well as can be.

Maybe.

But will I mention just one reason, because I don't want to go Off Topic.

About 25% of the school kids are overweight as a result of his success.

However to be fair, it isn't only pizza they are eating!

[cmsally]

Tongsai Bay is now run by the son of the founder who went to that most famous of universities in the UK, Norwich. famous that is for a one time degree in kite flying !

That would in fact be University of East Anglia, which in fact has very good depts. of Environmental Science and American studies/literature.

Maybe kite flying is a new addition, certainly get enough windy days for it.

[SomchaiCNX]

I will not cry if this Mr. Heinecke would move his business somewhere else. Bye bye.

Such a reckless statement - Mr Heinecke's Minor Group employs tens of thousands of Thais and no one of any political stripe should want to see these jobs lost.

Personally I admire the man, as he's one of the most successful Expat entrepreneurs in Thailand. He's also one savvy business person - Mr Heinecke's posturing as quoted earlier and in another thread is probably more to do with lobbying for longer term tax-breaks from the Govt. Just pure business-savvy on Mr Heinecke's part as particularly the 5-star hotel sector will likely suffer greatest in the larger global economic crisis. Personally wish for Minor Group and their thousands of employees to weather the larger economic crisis as well as can be.

Maybe.

But will I mention just one reason, because I don't want to go Off Topic.

About 25% of the school kids are overweight as a result of his success.

However to be fair, it isn't only pizza they are eating!

That's not the only thing he's selling.

[cmsally]

I will not cry if this Mr. Heinecke would move his business somewhere else. Bye bye.

Such a reckless statement - Mr Heinecke's Minor Group employs tens of thousands of Thais and no one of any political stripe should want to see these jobs lost.

Personally I admire the man, as he's one of the most successful Expat entrepreneurs in Thailand. He's also one savvy business person - Mr Heinecke's posturing as quoted earlier and in another thread is probably more to do with lobbying for longer term tax-breaks from the Govt. Just pure business-savvy on Mr Heinecke's part as particularly the 5-star hotel sector will likely suffer greatest in the larger global economic crisis. Personally wish for Minor Group and their thousands of employees to weather the larger economic crisis as well as can be.

Maybe.

But will I mention just one reason, because I don't want to go Off Topic.

About 25% of the school kids are overweight as a result of his success.

However to be fair, it isn't only pizza they are eating!

That's not the only thing he's selling.

Actually I had a nasty feeling that might be the case. What are the other wholesome American dishes he offers?

[dumball]

I will not cry if this Mr. Heinecke would move his business somewhere else. Bye bye.

Such a reckless statement - Mr Heinecke's Minor Group employs tens of thousands of Thais and no one of any political stripe should want to see these jobs lost.

Personally I admire the man, as he's one of the most successful Expat entrepreneurs in Thailand. He's also one savvy business person - Mr Heinecke's posturing as quoted earlier and in another thread is probably more to do with lobbying for longer term tax-breaks from the Govt. Just pure business-savvy on Mr Heinecke's part as particularly the 5-star hotel sector will likely suffer greatest in the larger global economic crisis. Personally wish for Minor Group and their thousands of employees to weather the larger economic crisis as well as can be.

Maybe.

But will I mention just one reason, because I don't want to go Off Topic.

About 25% of the school kids are overweight as a result of his success.

However to be fair, it isn't only pizza they are eating!

That's not the only thing he's selling.

Actually I had a nasty feeling that might be the case. What are the other wholesome American dishes he offers?

Boy oh boy , some people , nobodies success has made 25% of children obese , lack of parental control and teaching thier children healthy eating habits has made this success for them , good everything starts in THE HOME . Anybody ever think of packing a healthy lunch for thier child to take to school ? That is of course if they are aware of what healthy snacks consist of , do not know ? Google it if you can spare some of your precious time for your child , it will have benifits in the long run , no , not for you , FOR YOUR CHILD you happen to be guilty of bringing into this world of fast foods and soda-pops .

Oh , whilst you are at it , will you also teach them how to ride thier motor-cycles in a responsible manner , could save a life or 2 , even thier own .

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