Motorbikes Are A Social Menace

[marshbags]

Motorbikes are a social menace: researcher

By The Nation, Published on December 19, 2008

Motorcycles are the most dangerous gift Thai mothers can give their children, as bikes could lead to accidents or youths getting involved in crime, researchers said yesterday.

Motorcycles are the most dangerous gift Thai mothers can give their children, as bikes could lead to accidents or youths getting involved in crime, researchers said yesterday.

Panadda Chamnansuk, a lecturer from Kasetsart University's Faculty of Social Science, told a meeting of the National Health Foundation and the Accident Prevention Network her interviews with youngsters showed that motorcycles were tools that gave "marginalised youths" an identity.

With a downpayment of just Bt1, motorcycles could turn youths whom no one cared about or noticed into charming young men who attracted the attention of many girls, she said.

"These 'marginalised' boys use motorcycles as an identity-creating tool. Whilst they are a marginalised group in the public transport system, they are the 'important customers' for motorcycle manufacturers, as seen from many brochures focusing on them," she said.

Parents also contributed to kids becoming even more marginalised, especially mothers who could not resist children's pleas for a motorcycle as a gift, Panadda said.

But she said: "Motorcycles that mums bought for their kids at Mathayom 1 are indeed not a gift but a danger to themselves and society."

The mothers were, thus, a factor in transforming kids into street racers or reckless law-breaking riders, she said.

Some mothers thought buying motorbikes as a better option compared to paying for public transport fees, she said, but instead of coming home early the kids could come home later at night. Youths often decorated their motorcycles and joined in activities such as playing snooker or joining a gang, she said.

In the end, the youths might be involved in road accidents, crime, and create weakstructured families based on casual sex, which also posed a risk of HIV infection, she said.

To tackle the problem of "marginalised kids", she urged the government to develop a better public transport system because the current one was unsafe. And Thai society needed to get rid of the culture in which people were not concerned with things they were not involved in.

She urged parents to coach children about safety and try to stop youths riding motorbikes fast.

Another speaker was a former street racer from Sakhon Nakhon. Weerapong Saennarong, 24, said he used to ride a motorbike at 130-140 kilometres an hour but later only rode at 60kmh after he got older and attended a virtue camp led by Khon Kaen's Khao Suan Kwang police chief Pol Col Anont Namprasert.

"Before, I liked to ride a motorbike to show off to girls and join races for money to fund my motorbike modifying and decoration," he said. "I had some accidents too. I only graduated at Mathayom 3 because I was too preoccupied with riding my motorbike."

Another former street racer, 19yearold Wannachai Khunsit said he used to ride as fast as 150kmh but he became worried about his parents as he got older and realised he could not keep doing it. So he joined the camp by Pol Col Anont, which helped him quit drinking, a habit he took up at the age of 12.

Unquote

How many victims have we as individuals been aware of who paid the ultimate price for this foolish neglect by parents, in spite of the continued, horrendous carnage that takes place daily at regular intervals.

Children in many cases, so small they cannot have a hope to control these killer machines in the event of an accident.

Misguided love ect. some may say ???

Me, i reckon they are criminally guilty of second degree whatever, for even allowing their loved ones to own, borrow or take lifts on them in these circumstances.

There is also the the innocent third parties who suffer as a result of their accidents, both physically and mentally.

Shame on all of them..........the parents that is, followed by the authorities for turning a blind eye to it all.

End of my long held view on this subject, and not as some may interpret it ( a rant )

marshbags and constantly ened by the denial.

Edited December 19, 2008 by marshbags

[LaoPo]

Maybe time to think about the Chinese system whereby motorbikes are forbidden in many cities.

They even destroy "illegal" motorbikes, 14,000 in August in Shenzhen

"....14,277 confiscated “illegal motorcycles” were destroyed by bulldozers in Yungang district, Shenzhen."

http://www.chinacartimes.com/2008/08/01/po...al-motorcycles/

Time for electrical bikes: silent, comfortable and don't kill as many as with motorbikes...

LaoPo

[londonthai]

come on, next somebody will say that cars or pushbikes are social menace, or mobile phones (yes, used by all gangsters and they are suppose to be not healthy, too).

don't blame teenagers or motorbike manufaturers - blame parents for not educating kids from the young how to behave and to besponsible and blame police, for not enforcing highway cod.

chinese do destroy not only petrol engine powered bikes but electrical (!) as well - where can it end?

Edited December 19, 2008 by londonthai

[Kerryd]

With a downpayment of just Bt1, motorcycles could turn youths whom no one cared about or noticed into charming young men who attracted the attention of many girls, she said.

1 baht down payment ?

Sheesh, wonder what the monthly payments are ?

ps: People are a social menace, not machines.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, motorbikes are dangerous. I like this example. Look up right now and find a wall that is only 22 feet (6.7 meters) away. Imagine smashing your body against that wall, half a second from now. That is what happens if you fly off a motorbike going 48 km per hour. And if you are standing at a traffic light at zero km per hour and fall to the ground without a helmet, the brain injuries could kill you, as they killed my best student.

Do you remember getting your driver's license and enjoying high speed? Thai teenagers are not ready for it, usually. Add in the untrained drivers, alcohol, yaabaa, dogs, mobile phones, and it is a lethal mix.

[thaihome]

So when my nephew wishes to continue his education beyond primary level and the only secondary school is about 15 km away and there is no school bus system, how is he suppose to get there?

I agree, what needs to happen is safety education and stricter law enforcement, but a 30k baht motorcycle is the only transportation lots of people can afford.

TH

[popshirt]

I like the sound of a "virtue camp".......sponsored by the police!

[Mosha]

If he is under the legal age to ride motor bikes, then an adult family member should take him. You aren't advocating him breaking the law are you?

[dominator]

So when my nephew wishes to continue his education beyond primary level and the only secondary school is about 15 km away and there is no school bus system, how is he suppose to get there?

I agree, what needs to happen is safety education and stricter law enforcement, but a 30k baht motorcycle is the only transportation lots of people can afford.

TH

As said, if your nephew is under age, you are condoning an unlawful act.

[RealityCheck]

With a downpayment of just Bt1, motorcycles could turn youths whom no one cared about or noticed into charming young men who attracted the attention of many girls, she said.

I've been riding around on motorbikes for years, and nobody finds me "charming".

[RealityCheck]

come on, next somebody will say that cars or pushbikes are social menace, or mobile phones (yes, used by all gangsters and they are suppose to be not healthy, too).

don't blame teenagers or motorbike manufaturers - blame parents for not educating kids from the young how to behave and to besponsible and blame police, for not enforcing highway cod.

chinese do destroy not only petrol engine powered bikes but electrical (!) as well - where can it end?

I agree with LondonThai....

This is all a matter of social conditioning.

If people (parents and police especially) were "responsible" they would insist on:

1. Driving licences (and therefore a minimum age)

2. Insurance

3. Protective gear

4. Bike in good condition

5. Road registration documents

6. A good standard of social behaviour from the youth of this country.

Unfortunately:

A. the lives of young people are not valued highly enough in Thailand

B. parents, generally, are too lazy to ensure that their kids adhere to the rules.

C. the police would prefer transgressors so that they can collect their tea money.

But the notion that "Motorbikes are a Social Menace" is erroneous....

It's the RIDERS that are a Menace, not the bikes.

Without bikes this country couldn't function.

[Mosha]

I ask my wife who pays, if one of these school kids riding a motor bike. Loses control of it and kill a pedestrian. All I get back is I don't know.

[thaihome]

So when my nephew wishes to continue his education beyond primary level and the only secondary school is about 15 km away and there is no school bus system, how is he suppose to get there?

I agree, what needs to happen is safety education and stricter law enforcement, but a 30k baht motorcycle is the only transportation lots of people can afford.

TH

As said, if your nephew is under age, you are condoning an unlawful act.

So you just refuse to answer the question by deflecting it with assumptions you don't know anything about? Yes, when he was under legal age his mother or uncle rode him back and forth and once he got his license he drove himself.

Now, what is your answer to my question?

TH

[dominator]

So when my nephew wishes to continue his education beyond primary level and the only secondary school is about 15 km away and there is no school bus system, how is he suppose to get there?

I agree, what needs to happen is safety education and stricter law enforcement, but a 30k baht motorcycle is the only transportation lots of people can afford.

TH

As said, if your nephew is under age, you are condoning an unlawful act.

So you just refuse to answer the question by deflecting it with assumptions you don't know anything about? Yes, when he was under legal age his mother or uncle rode him back and forth and once he got his license he drove himself.

Now, what is your answer to my question?

TH

Surely when your nephew started secondary school, he would have been UNDER AGE for motorcycling

[Mobi]

An interesting article on the recently introduced helmet law in Vietnam:

Hanoi

A law enforcing crash helmet use for Vietnamese motorcyclists has saved more than 1,000 lives and prevented over 2,000 serious injuries in a year, the World Health Organisation said today. But the WHO stressed that the law must be enforced for under- 16s, many of whom now ride as passengers without helmets because of a widespread and misguided belief that helmets can damage their necks." Thanks to the introduction of mandatory helmet laws there are more people alive today to enjoy time with their family and look forward to Tet ( Lunar New Year) celebrations," said WHO country chief Jean-Marc Olive ."The alternative does not bear thinking about," he added in a statement, released one year after the helmet law started to be enforced with fines." There is no simpler message - helmets save lives."

Attention must now be turned to the vast numbers of Vietnamese children who do not wear helmets when they are passengers on a motorcycle. "WHO said National Traffic Safety Committee statistics showed that road traffic deaths had fallen by more than 1,400 and serious injuries by over 2,200, by the end of October 2008 compared to the same period a year earlier. New regulations now also give police the power to fine motorcycle riders and passengers who do not correctly fasten their helmets and those who wear helmets that do not meet national safety standards, said WHO.

The UN health agency said it was working with Vietnam on a law to penalise adults who allow children to ride on motorcycles without helmets.

The authorities in Thailand would do well to emulate these actions.

[bonobo]

What bothers me most about motorcylists in Thailand is that most seemingly feel they do not have to obey traffic laws. Scooting through a red light between gaps in crossing traffic, screaming at high speeds the wrong way in traffic lanes, driving up on sidewalks--it is a free-for-all.

But the most telling thing to me, however is rather graphic. In all my years of driving in the US, Korea, Taiwan, and Japan, I have never seen a road fatality (except in my duties as a volunteer EMT). Since Nov 16 this year, I have seen four bodies here in Bangkok, all motorcyclists

[thaihome]

So when my nephew wishes to continue his education beyond primary level and the only secondary school is about 15 km away and there is no school bus system, how is he suppose to get there?

I agree, what needs to happen is safety education and stricter law enforcement, but a 30k baht motorcycle is the only transportation lots of people can afford.

TH

As said, if your nephew is under age, you are condoning an unlawful act.

So you just refuse to answer the question by deflecting it with assumptions you don't know anything about? Yes, when he was under legal age his mother or uncle rode him back and forth and once he got his license he drove himself.

Now, what is your answer to my question?

TH

Surely when your nephew started secondary school, he would have been UNDER AGE for motorcycling

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? let me make this easy for you:

... when he was under legal age his mother or uncle rode him back and forth...

There is no legal age limit for being a passenger on a motorcycle.

[RusticCharm]

Maybe time to think about the Chinese system

Yeah right!

Let's adopt female infanticide and start jailing internet bloggers. Maybe even do some footbinding while we're at it.

Twit!

[thaihome]

What bothers me most about motorcylists in Thailand is that most seemingly feel they do not have to obey traffic laws. Scooting through a red light between gaps in crossing traffic, screaming at high speeds the wrong way in traffic lanes, driving up on sidewalks--it is a free-for-all.

...

Agreed. That is an education/enforcement problem that will take at least a generation to get rid of. Living in a rural area of the US in the early 1970 that was undergoing huge growth and rabidly turning into an urban area, it was appalling how badly the people drove, seemingly without any regard for other traffic. The reason was when they learned to drive, there was no other traffic.

TH

[thaihome]

Maybe time to think about the Chinese system

Oh yeah, that would fix it. Start driving like the Chinese do.

TH

[neverdie]

What a GREAT LOAD OF DRIBBLE!!!

Motorcycles are not dangerous......it's when they are being driven by idiots that they become dangerous.

If we were to apply this theory that motorcycles are dangerous to everything else, where would we be? Lets see,

I have seen many DANGEROUS CAR'S & DANGEROUS TRUCK'S also driven by idiots..... then there was a plane that crashed onto the highway where I was driving......So it must be a DANGEROUS PLANE.

I have also seen people carrying DANGEROUS GUN'S and the other day I saw a lady fall over after a runaway DANGEROUS SHOPPING CART hit her at Lotus. One could even go on to say, look at how that DANGEROUS PRESIDENT of the USA is. Recently here in Thailand, it was Dangerous to goto the airport or even wearing shirts of various colours was DANGEROUS.

I've been riding motorcycles for over 30 year and look I NEVERDIE, so how dangerous can they really be? I knew an old man that rode motorcycles all his life, at 85 he parked his motorcycle & fell down a flight of DANGEROUS CONCRETE STAIRS and died.

Its the IDIOTS, not the machinary!

[bonobo]

What a GREAT LOAD OF DRIBBLE!!!

Motorcycles are not dangerous......it's when they are being driven by idiots that they become dangerous.

If we were to apply this theory that motorcycles are dangerous to everything else, where would we be? Lets see,

I have seen many DANGEROUS CAR'S & DANGEROUS TRUCK'S also driven by idiots..... then there was a plane that crashed onto the highway where I was driving......So it must be a DANGEROUS PLANE.

I have also seen people carrying DANGEROUS GUN'S and the other day I saw a lady fall over after a runaway DANGEROUS SHOPPING CART hit her at Lotus. One could even go on to say, look at how that DANGEROUS PRESIDENT of the USA is. Recently here in Thailand, it was Dangerous to goto the airport or even wearing shirts of various colours was DANGEROUS.

I've been riding motorcycles for over 30 year and look I NEVERDIE, so how dangerous can they really be? I knew an old man that rode motorcycles all his life, at 85 he parked his motorcycle & fell down a flight of DANGEROUS CONCRETE STAIRS and died.

Its the IDIOTS, not the machinary!

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Motorcycles are dangerous. It is a statistical fact. Riding in cars is more dangerous than riding in airplanes, and riding a motorcylce is more dangerous than riding in a car.

You can reduce the risk significantly by riding in a same, safe manner. But the bottom line is that if you are in an accident on a bike, you are far more likely to get hurt than if you are in a car. you can be riding in a law-abiding manner 60 kph down a four-lane road, but the guy next to you in a pickup swerves into your lane and you are riding a car, you will probably suffer no worse than a dented door. If the same thing happens while you are on a bike, you will more likely be killed or seriously hurt.

Add to the equation some young kids who ignore common sense, then the chance of injury skyrockets.

But to say you ahve been riding for 30 years and are still alive is proof that motorcycles are not dangerous is ridiculous. That is like a smoker saying he or she has smoked for 50 years and doesn't have cancer, so that proves that smoking is not harmful to your health, or having someone say that he or she has driven drunk for years without getting killed, so drunk driving must be fine as well.

I am not saying that motorcyles whould be taken off the road. But to ride a bike without acknowledging the potential danger is just increasing yoru chances for an untoward result.

[neverdie]

I think you are missing my point Mr Bonobo or perhaps thats Mrs Bonobo (big girl). My point is that a 'Motorcycle' NEVER EVER Killed somebody until a person got involved. A very high percentage of all motor vehicle collisions involves somebody being at fault....normally they do something stupid...alcohol, drugs, reckless driving, the list goes on....and the very end of the list you will find mechanical failure....MOTORCYCLES ARE NOT DANGEROUS on their own. Remember, my point is about the idiot factor.

As for statistics, they are great fun. Statistical fact??? What a joke, thanks for the laugh! Next you will be telling me that its actually roads that kill people.

I agree with you on the point that when there is a crash, that it is much safer to be seated inside a motorvehicle, wearing a seat belt, airbags deploying etc etc. Wearing a helmet, body armour, installing a roll cage & driving a volvo may further increase you're chances of survival too.....NOT to mention all the issues surrounding driver training and the correct and propper use of vehicles.

The idiot is dangerous!

As for your smoking analagy, I would also suggest that Cigarettes are not DANGEROUS, its the idiots that put them in their mouth, light them and then inhale their poision....thats dangerous, whereas the safe motorcycle rider whos appropriately skilled and trained...I wouldnt suggest he is the same as a smoker, or is that what you are saying?

[bonobo]

I think you are missing my point Mr Bonobo or perhaps thats Mrs Bonobo (big girl). My point is that a 'Motorcycle' NEVER EVER Killed somebody until a person got involved. A very high percentage of all motor vehicle collisions involves somebody being at fault....normally they do something stupid...alcohol, drugs, reckless driving, the list goes on....and the very end of the list you will find mechanical failure....MOTORCYCLES ARE NOT DANGEROUS on their own. Remember, my point is about the idiot factor.

As for statistics, they are great fun. Statistical fact??? What a joke, thanks for the laugh! Next you will be telling me that its actually roads that kill people.

I agree with you on the point that when there is a crash, that it is much safer to be seated inside a motorvehicle, wearing a seat belt, airbags deploying etc etc. Wearing a helmet, body armour, installing a roll cage & driving a volvo may further increase you're chances of survival too.....NOT to mention all the issues surrounding driver training and the correct and propper use of vehicles.

The idiot is dangerous!

As for your smoking analagy, I would also suggest that Cigarettes are not DANGEROUS, its the idiots that put them in their mouth, light them and then inhale their poision....thats dangerous, whereas the safe motorcycle rider whos appropriately skilled and trained...I wouldnt suggest he is the same as a smoker, or is that what you are saying?

Unless it somehow blows up on its own while sitting a a garage, a motorcycle is, in and of itself, not dangerous. But if you read my post, riding a motorcycle is dangerous. You can deride statistics all you want, but I don't understand why. More motorcycle drivers are killed per mile driven than automobile drivers. It is a pretty basic statistic and quite easy to comprehend.

My smoking analogy was aimed at your statement that since you are still alive, then riding a bike must be safe. Not that riding and smoking are the same thing. You are reading what you want to see into the post.

I ride myself, and I consider myself a safe rider. But it is ridiculous to think that just because I ride responsibly that I am just as safe riding as when I am in a car.

[Mobi]

By the same analogy, a gun is not dangerous unless it is in the pocket of a villain.

Don't you think this line of argument is a bit pointless?

We all know what both of you mean.

[neverdie]

Okay Okay Bonobo, as long as your not just motorcycle bashing.

see you on the hwy.

Now Mobi, I want to start with you....whats this 'Villian' thing?? Are you trying to tell me that its only 'Villians' that kill people with guns....are all soldiers at war, now villians, what about if someone (albiet a stupid person) picks up a gun and accidently shoots someone....does that make him a villian?? You see, I know what you mean but I couldnt help but ask anyway ....its friday, its been a loooonng week.

[PattayaParent]

So when my nephew wishes to continue his education beyond primary level and the only secondary school is about 15 km away and there is no school bus system, how is he suppose to get there?

I agree, what needs to happen is safety education and stricter law enforcement, but a 30k baht motorcycle is the only transportation lots of people can afford.

TH

As said, if your nephew is under age, you are condoning an unlawful act.

So you just refuse to answer the question by deflecting it with assumptions you don't know anything about? Yes, when he was under legal age his mother or uncle rode him back and forth and once he got his license he drove himself.

Now, what is your answer to my question?

TH

Surely when your nephew started secondary school, he would have been UNDER AGE for motorcycling

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? let me make this easy for you:

... when he was under legal age his mother or uncle rode him back and forth...

There is no legal age limit for being a passenger on a motorcycle.

The OP being about underage children riding motocy i.e being in control of their operation, would mean that your reply about your nephew needing one to get to secondary school (at the age of 12-16) is condoning underage driving, so there was no reading comprehension problem on denominators part.

As regards the legal age limit for being a passenger on a motocy, I don't know about Thailand but in the 'civilised' Wetern world there is. That's why you don't see parents with a baby in the front basket, a 3 year old perched on the handlebars an a 6 year old hanging on at the back as I saw today. And not a one of them with a helmet on.

So how are such parents going to teach their children that it's wrong to do that?

[chickenslegs]

As regards the legal age limit for being a passenger on a motocy, I don't know about Thailand but in the 'civilised' Wetern world there is. ...

No age limit in the UK.

last I heard we are still 'civilised'.

[tigerboy]

don't blame teenagers or motorbike manufaturers - blame parents for not educating kids from the young how to behave and to besponsible and blame police, for not enforcing highway cod.

In a country where people in general cannot even discipline dogs, case in point, dogs laying around everywhere, sidewalks, entrances to building, etc, I say yes!

Blame the kids, blame the teenagers, blame the parents, and yes, blame the police.

[12DrinkMore]

This year I was in Chiang Mai and, stopped by a BIB to allow several hundred school kids to ride out of the school on bikes at the end of the day. NONE, not a SINGLE ONE, was wearing a helmet. All happily zooming off, 1, 2 or even 3 to a bike.

I wrote to one of the Chiang Mai magazines, suggesting that if they wanted to do something for road safety, the easiest, simplest and cost free way is to not allow a single student to ride home on a bike without a helmet. Just get a couple of BIBs to stand there, not to set up a 200 Baht/head end of month bonus collection point, but to simply stop the pupils riding out without a helmet. In 24 hours there would be a massive increase in wearing helmets.