Fake Banknotes Flood Bangkok As Recession Grips

[george]

Fake banknotes flood city as recession grips

Warning to be alert over festive period

BANGKOK: -- Thousands of counterfeit banknotes, particularly 1,000-baht bills, are likely to go into circulation over the New Year period, the Bank of Thailand (BoT) warned yesterday.

Nopporn Pramojaney, the BoT's assistant governor for note-printing, warned consumers and businesses to watch out for odd-looking notes during the holiday season.

He said counterfeit notes in circulation increased by 80% this year, possibly as a consequence of hard economic times.

In the 12 months to the end of November, the BoT had confiscated 18,895 fake notes - compared with 10,819 notes seized in the same period last year. Most fake notes were 1,000-baht bills, which accounted for 61% of seized notes.

Mr Nopporn said that for every one million banknotes in circulation, up to 7,000 of those would be fakes.

More counterfeit notes were expected to enter circulation next year due to the economic recession.

Pol Lt-Gen Danaithorn Wongthai, chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science has given some tips for the public to differentiate real banknotes from fake ones.

A real banknote bears the watermark of His Majesty the King, which can only be seen when it is held up to the light. The picture of the King, the letters and the digits showing the value on the real note have an embossed feel.

Notes of 1,000-baht, 500-baht and 100-baht value have reflective and holographic metallic strips.

Police Region 1 recently arrested four people including a former school director, for banknote forgery, and seized 203 fake 1,000-baht notes.

Police also confiscated three compressed bricks of marijuana weighing 3kg from the suspects.

Pol Lt-Gen Chalong Sonjai, Police Region 1 commissioner, said the suspects used the fake notes to pay for drugs they bought in Laos.

In Phuket, police arrested three people and seized three fake 1,000-baht notes in Thalang district on Wednesday.

Pol Col Thammanoon Faiju, superintendent of Thalang police station, said forged bills were often used at nightspots, petrol stations or grocery stores popular with the elderly.

-- Bangkok Post 2008-12-20

[Heng]

I see this soap opera at the bank all the time. Shady looking folks looking to deposit (into dummy accounts likely set up just to screen notes) say 10 real notes and 2 fake ones. They are clearly testing to see if their notes pass scrutiny or not by tellers. When they do not, all the bank (at least the ones I use: BBL, KBANK, SCB, Krungsri,...) does is stamp "fake note" in Thai on the note and return them to the depositor. Sometimes the depositor will ask questions like "how can you tell?" "is the problem with the paper?"

All they need to do to stop this is to start keeping records (coupled with the already in place cctv systems in use) of who repeated tests bank notes.

[dave9988]

I see this soap opera at the bank all the time. Shady looking folks looking to deposit (into dummy accounts likely set up just to screen notes) say 10 real notes and 2 fake ones. They are clearly testing to see if their notes pass scrutiny or not by tellers. When they do not, all the bank (at least the ones I use: BBL, KBANK, SCB, Krungsri,...) does is stamp "fake note" in Thai on the note and return them to the depositor. Sometimes the depositor will ask questions like "how can you tell?" "is the problem with the paper?"

All they need to do to stop this is to start keeping records (coupled with the already in place cctv systems in use) of who repeated tests bank notes.

yeah, i don't think the police want to follow that trail because who knows who might be at the end of it.

[dave9988]

I see this soap opera at the bank all the time. Shady looking folks looking to deposit (into dummy accounts likely set up just to screen notes) say 10 real notes and 2 fake ones. They are clearly testing to see if their notes pass scrutiny or not by tellers. When they do not, all the bank (at least the ones I use: BBL, KBANK, SCB, Krungsri,...) does is stamp "fake note" in Thai on the note and return them to the depositor. Sometimes the depositor will ask questions like "how can you tell?" "is the problem with the paper?"

All they need to do to stop this is to start keeping records (coupled with the already in place cctv systems in use) of who repeated tests bank notes.

yeah, i don't think the police want to follow that trail because who knows who might be at the end of it.

[think_too_mut]

ATMs accept deposits, are they better or worse than humans in detecting the fake notes?

If the deposit comes through an ATM, end of the story for the crooks. It's passed.

[cali4995]

During the last week I've seen two different segments on "thaitv" about

counterfeit notes but it took considerable digging for me to find it on

print news (link below) it was Friday's edition but I see you have to get

up early in the morning to beat "George" to the newswires.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/191208_News/19Dec2008_news18.php

On the television segment, they seemed to be explaining that while the

counterfeit notes had the strip of foil, holographic images were absent.

Also on genuine bills of course held up to the light the watermark of the

king is visible. Additionally they have that strip of micro-printing with

the denomination amount. Guess we'll all need to do closer inspection.

[Tywais]

During the last week I've seen two different segments on "thaitv" about

My wife and I were watching a segment on thaitv this morning showing the security mechanisms on the bills. She asked a couple of interesting and valid questions. First, is it possible to get a fake bill from an ATM machine, in other words are the bills checked before loading up the machines. The 2nd question was if she were to get a fake bill through the ATM or from her store and she didn't know it was fake, is she liable for the note - that is, can they accuse her of distributing fake notes?

[soundman]

Lat Monday we had four fake 1000B notes (bank bom) presented at our service station & about nine so far this week.

Here are all the security features for those interested.

[soundman]

The 2nd question was if she were to get a fake bill through the ATM or from her store and she didn't know it was fake, is she liable for the note - that is, can they accuse her of distributing fake notes?

AKAIK liability falls to the holder of the note if they are aware of it's status, try to use it and don't report it to the police.

[Heng]

I think you probably have some leverage with the bank (and perhaps the law as wel) if you catch it right away. I do a lot of deposits where I withdraw via ATM from locations within bank branches and deposit either via machine or teller immediately. So everything is on cctv (including the proof that the fake notes had originated from their machine).

[soundman]

I think you probably have some leverage with the bank (and perhaps the law as wel) if you catch it right away. I do a lot of deposits where I withdraw via ATM from locations within bank branches and deposit either via machine or teller immediately. So everything is on cctv (including the proof that the fake notes had originated from their machine).

We frequently use the CDM machines and they are always spitting "questionable" notes back at you. More often than not, the "questionable" notes contain less than average amount of micro fiber when you look at under black light, and are actually legitimate banknotes, just old/worn/slightly down on quality on the QC side of production.

[Heng]

Yeah, same here. I try to trade these in immediately, but of course that's not always an option, particularly on the days when people get paid and all the lines are 30+ deep.

[neverdie]

I guess i should stop that joke of mine about them coming straight off the printing press?

[phaethon]

I guess i should stop that joke of mine about them coming straight off the printing press?

LOL, that's exactly what I do when a shop assistant holds a note up to the light or uses some other checking technique - "Nothing wrong with that, I printed it myself."

Most UK shop assistants don't speak English so the remark goes unnoticed, but I will have to think twice before using it in LOS where English is more widely spoken than in London.

Presumably you can get little portable blacklights at Pantip etc. - anyone used these to find fakes as per item 3 at http://www.bot.or.th/English/Banknotes/pro...rial_print.aspx

[BeauKarl]

The 2nd question was if she were to get a fake bill through the ATM or from her store and she didn't know it was fake, is she liable for the note - that is, can they accuse her of distributing fake notes?

AKAIK liability falls to the holder of the note if they are aware of it's status, try to use it and don't report it to the police.

My wife saw a program where the police stated that even if you have one in your pocket, you are liable.

Normally my wife doesn't swear, but... well you guessed it

[cali4995]

Yes, it's quite handy when you're at the a-go-go to check the "Invisible Fluorescent Fibres"

as normally there is sufficient blacklight available. I'm sure that's the reason for this.

[Carib]

Enlarge the picture a bit you will see that 1 and 3 are real, 2 and 4 are fake .

On the fake ones things are missing.

A real banknote bears the watermark of His Majesty the King, which can only be seen when it is held up to the light. The picture of the King, the letters and the digits showing the value on the real note have an embossed feel. Notes of 1,000-baht, 500-baht and 100-baht value have reflective and holographic metallic strips

[khaowong1]

Lat Monday we had four fake 1000B notes (bank bom) presented at our service station & about nine so far this week.

Here are all the security features for those interested.

Thank you Soundman, that is a very good attachment. I took out all my bills and checked them. I was in Bangkok this week and noticed practically everyone at the markets were checking their bills, especially the 1000 baht notes. Not seen this in a long time. I even notice it happening here in Lopburi.

[soundman]

Enlarge the picture a bit you will see that 1 and 3 are real, 2 and 4 are fake .

On the fake ones things are missing.

A real banknote bears the watermark of His Majesty the King, which can only be seen when it is held up to the light. The picture of the King, the letters and the digits showing the value on the real note have an embossed feel. Notes of 1,000-baht, 500-baht and 100-baht value have reflective and holographic metallic strips

Not entirely correct with 1000B notes.

Series 15 Type I 1000B notes from 1999 - 2004 have no holographic strip, star constellations, semi transparent lotus next to HM or small writing under 1000B logo on the reverse side.

They are still widely in circulation and the best way to determine if they are legit is black light, watermark and changing colours of the "1000" on the top right corner.

Series 15 Type II notes from 2005 - are the ones with holoraphic strip etc.

(Type I) FrontThe portrait of King Rama IX in the uniform of the Supreme Commander BackThe portrait of King Rama IX, the Pa Sak Jolasid Dam, the agricultural land managed in accordance with the New Theory Size72 x162 mm Notification DateSeptember 1, 1999 Issue DateNovember 1, 1999

(Type II)(Redesigned Version) with Hologram Foil Stripe FrontThe portrait of King Rama IX in the uniform of the Supreme Commander BackThe portrait of King Rama IX, the Pa Sak Jolasid Dam, the agricultural land managed in accordance with the New Theory Size72 x162 mm Notification DateJuly 29, 2005 Issue DateNovember 25, 2005

Cheers.

[pab]

Fake banknotes flood city as recession grips

Warning to be alert over festive period

BANGKOK: -- Thousands of counterfeit banknotes, particularly 1,000-baht bills, are likely to go into circulation over the New Year period, the Bank of Thailand (BoT) warned yesterday.

Nopporn Pramojaney, the BoT's assistant governor for note-printing, warned consumers and businesses to watch out for odd-looking notes during the holiday season.

He said counterfeit notes in circulation increased by 80% this year, possibly as a consequence of hard economic times.

In the 12 months to the end of November, the BoT had confiscated 18,895 fake notes - compared with 10,819 notes seized in the same period last year. Most fake notes were 1,000-baht bills, which accounted for 61% of seized notes.

Mr Nopporn said that for every one million banknotes in circulation, up to 7,000 of those would be fakes.

More counterfeit notes were expected to enter circulation next year due to the economic recession.

Pol Lt-Gen Danaithorn Wongthai, chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science has given some tips for the public to differentiate real banknotes from fake ones.

A real banknote bears the watermark of His Majesty the King, which can only be seen when it is held up to the light. The picture of the King, the letters and the digits showing the value on the real note have an embossed feel.

Notes of 1,000-baht, 500-baht and 100-baht value have reflective and holographic metallic strips.

Police Region 1 recently arrested four people including a former school director, for banknote forgery, and seized 203 fake 1,000-baht notes.

Police also confiscated three compressed bricks of marijuana weighing 3kg from the suspects.

Pol Lt-Gen Chalong Sonjai, Police Region 1 commissioner, said the suspects used the fake notes to pay for drugs they bought in Laos.

In Phuket, police arrested three people and seized three fake 1,000-baht notes in Thalang district on Wednesday.

Pol Col Thammanoon Faiju, superintendent of Thalang police station, said forged bills were often used at nightspots, petrol stations or grocery stores popular with the elderly.

-- Bangkok Post 2008-12-20

Not just Bangkok. Yesterday some guys came to our village about 18 km from Si Sa Ket to buy some of our rice harvest and in paying us, thanks to my wife's sharp eyes, we noticed a few fake 1,000 baht notes.

The guy was a little shocked but he replaced them immediately without question and I think he was not even aware they were fakes.

Sure taught me a lesson and now I check all my change, even withdrawals from the bank, before moving on.

[cali4995]

They had another segment on thaitv about this tonight. Yes, that's the gist of what they

were saying, the notes are literally all over the country from the south to parts in issan.

Also "detector" machines apparently have surfaced. They seem to have a miniature

blacklight on them and I'm not sure what else? At the carrefour today, I paid with a

1k note and the girl made a big show about checking the bill with her machine next

to the register. Basta_d farangs I'm sure are the sole root of the entire problem.

[Rinrada]

Here are all the security features for those interested

Good one.......

Just checked a big Wad of 1k notes that I found lying in the back of my travel wallet from last trip and they are all OK ......cheers....

[Trevor]

Pretty daft handing back forged notes into circulation after stamping them fake. Only in Thailand. Never in the UK ... one might even be arrested too.

Fakes are always poor quality to those who take the time to look carefully.

[rak sa_ngop]

Do I remember correctly that the old 50 baht notes used to be plastic? What happened to them?

[rak sa_ngop]

Duplicate post in error.

Edited December 22, 2008 by rak sa_ngop

[Heng]

They didn't last as long as expected. Was a good idea on paper though.

[stumonster]

are you seeing any increase in the numbers of fakes around , Heng ?

or any stories you have heard from your circle of friends ?

[jubby]

The wife says she heard on the news that a lot of shops are now refusing to take 1000 baht notes. Never been easy getting rid of them up here anyway.

We thought we had a dodgy one this morning. The Kings head watermark looked different and the metalic strip was only visable on one side. We gave it back to the supplier who replaced it without problems because he reckons its just an older note.

[sbk]

. Posts have been deleted. Posting hearsay and innuendo is not a good idea

[sibeymai]

... First, is it possible to get a fake bill from an ATM machine, in other words are the bills checked before loading up the machines...

The answer...no, it's unlikely you will receive a fake note from an ATM, unless the ATM is adjusted incorrectly or malfunctioning.

ATMs check notes for width (determines demonination, most notes are different widths depending on their value) and thickness (to check for bundled notes or notes which are stuck together). Some ATMs may check for length but I haven't heard of this. They also scan the note and compute a value from the scan (can be a luminous scan or other image/optical based scan where the result must fall between preset calibration values. If any of the tests fail the note is rejected and another used.