How Safe Is Your Pension?

[misterman21]

Considering the recent revalation that several major - previously respected - Wall Street figures have been operating ponzi schemes thus defrauding major investors - banks, pension funds, etc. etc. out of billions. How safe do you think your pension is? Do you have any idea what the nice people who sold you your pension have been doing with the funds?

It seems that this may be the tip of the iceberg - and it has been said that the whole financial system has been operating as one big ponzi scheme!

Tip of the iceberg??!!

arrest of financier Bernard Madoff Thursday for operating a "Ponzi scheme" costing investors $50 billion made the TV network news. Curiously, a lawsuit the same day against Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin for defrauding Citibank shareholders of more than $122 billion, also described as a "Ponzi scheme," got no airplay whatsoever

Edited December 21, 2008 by misterman21

[PhilHarries]

How safe is my pension? Ask me that in nine years time and I'll answer you. In the meantime I'm doing my best to build up and alternative but as, in the end, all money depends on financiers and it seems most financiers are out and out crooks who knows what the <deleted> the future will bring?

[stumonster]

Pension and Superannuation Funds are a spark that could cause real civil unrest in the west.

[Xangsamhua]

And we complain about corruption in Thailand ....

[midas]

Pension and Superannuation Funds are a spark that could cause real civil unrest in the west.

And just wait until the US Government grabs eveyones 401K on top of that

[MJP]

Considering the recent revalation that several major - previously respected - Wall Street figures have been operating ponzi schemes thus defrauding major investors - banks, pension funds, etc. etc. out of billions. How safe do you think your pension is? Do you have any idea what the nice people who sold you your pension have been doing with the funds?

It seems that this may be the tip of the iceberg - and it has been said that the whole financial system has been operating as one big ponzi scheme!

Tip of the iceberg??!!

arrest of financier Bernard Madoff Thursday for operating a "Ponzi scheme" costing investors $50 billion made the TV network news. Curiously, a lawsuit the same day against Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin for defrauding Citibank shareholders of more than $122 billion, also described as a "Ponzi scheme," got no airplay whatsoever

<h2 class="access">Global systemic crisis – New tipping-point in March 2009: 'When the world becomes aware that this crisis is worse than the 1930s crisis' </h2> <h3 class="access"> - Public announcement GEAB N°30 (December 16, 2008) - </h3>

LEAP/E2020 anticipates than the unfolding global systemic crisis will experience in March 2009 a new tipping point of similar magnitude to the September 2008 one. According to our team, at that period of the year, the general public will become aware of three major destabilizing processes at work in the global economy, i.e.:

• the length of the crisis

• the explosion of unemployment worldwide

•

the risk of sudden collapse of all capital-based pension systems

. . .

long article

http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-30-is-available!-Global-systemic-crisis-New-tipping-point-in-March-2009-When-the-world-becomes-aware-that-this_a2567.html

Edited December 21, 2008 by MJP

[percy2]

"We" give our life savings to other people for "safe keeping" and then get upset when they run off with them.

Would you say to a bar girl "look after my wallet while I go to the toilet"

Cheers

[neverdie]

"We" give our life savings to other people for "safe keeping" and then get upset when they run off with them.

Would you say to a bar girl "look after my wallet while I go to the toilet"

Cheers

Nice, we are now comparing Madoff to a bar girl. LOL. Imagine how many ladies you can get for 50 billion $$

[misterman21]

"We" give our life savings to other people for "safe keeping" and then get upset when they run off with them.

Would you say to a bar girl "look after my wallet while I go to the toilet"

Cheers

Nice, we are now comparing Madoff to a bar girl. LOL. Imagine how many ladies you can get for 50 billion $$

Strange how Madoff has become synonamous with the latest ponzi fraud - and no one mentions 'Rubin' although his 120 billion fraud dwarfs Madoffs

PS no offence should be taken by BGs or dwarfs

Edited December 21, 2008 by misterman21

[percy2]

To be fair to Bernie I had the British Government in mind when I made the comparison!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/persona...overnments.html

Cheers

PS the the no. of BG's available for $50B is related to the imagined value of $1 therefore fluid. It could be 1 or many (anybody know how to insert an infinity symbol on a mac in firefox?)

[percy2]

Bernie and Rob are small change!

Cheers

[neverdie]

LOL.

I'm not too sure if theres many investors out there at the moment worried about being fair to burnie, but i understand your point.

[lannarebirth]

Considering the recent revalation that several major - previously respected - Wall Street figures have been operating ponzi schemes thus defrauding major investors - banks, pension funds, etc. etc. out of billions. How safe do you think your pension is? Do you have any idea what the nice people who sold you your pension have been doing with the funds?

It seems that this may be the tip of the iceberg - and it has been said that the whole financial system has been operating as one big ponzi scheme!

Tip of the iceberg??!!

arrest of financier Bernard Madoff Thursday for operating a "Ponzi scheme" costing investors $50 billion made the TV network news. Curiously, a lawsuit the same day against Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin for defrauding Citibank shareholders of more than $122 billion, also described as a "Ponzi scheme," got no airplay whatsoever

Rubin is dirty, dirty, dirty. The "CHANGE" candidate has just appointed all of his proteges to all financial posts that matter. Keep your hand on your wallet.

[lannarebirth]

"We" give our life savings to other people for "safe keeping" and then get upset when they run off with them.

Would you say to a bar girl "look after my wallet while I go to the toilet"

Cheers

Finally someone using the proper perspective.

[percy2]

Finally someone using the proper perspective.

I humbly apologize to the powers that be.

My excuse pitiful as it is , I had a big night last night.

Cheers

[Pakboong]

In 1934. FDR reduced Military pensions.

[Wrong Turn]

Very good thread. Unfortunately this must be thought about.

If a pension fund has reduced funds because of fraud/theft, declining markets/investments, then the pay-outs to the current and future recipients are reduced, and in some cases not even honored.

Lots of worthy posts above.

Yes, there could be unrest, suicides, etc, if somebody worked for 40-45 years (or even 20-25-30) to find out there is enough, or isn't anything there.

That would break people.

401Ks are not only declining a lot, but companies (e.g. FedEx) are ending matching to save funds.

Not looking good for many people.

Govt. employees seem the safest.

And as for military pensions, remember, that Ronald Reagan reduced military pensions, half way through, and he is still despised by many career military people during the 1980s for it.

Let others take your money and promise to do the right thing, and reimburse you when you are old and need it?

I'd rather do it myself and take the risk and be responsible for it myself.

[percy2]

^ I too keep my wallet in my pocket.

Cheers

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

"We" give our life savings to other people for "safe keeping" and then get upset when they run off with them.

Would you say to a bar girl "look after my wallet while I go to the toilet"

Cheers

Actually in the early 80's I gave Swiss bank $100,000 to manage for me. After a year in very profitable markets they managed to reduce it to $80,000. They churned the hel_l out of it and when I would get a $3 dividend they would charge me $5 for handling it. Very expensive lesson, even if they look and sound responsible and respectable "DON'T TRUST ANYONE" unless you are constantly looking over their shoulder. And if you are going to monitor it that close you might as well do it yourself.

[meom]

"We" give our life savings to other people for "safe keeping" and then get upset when they run off with them.

Would you say to a bar girl "look after my wallet while I go to the toilet"

Cheers

Finally someone using the proper perspective.

There's always exceptions and I've met a few girls whom i'd rather trust with my money than some fund manager.

Hearts of gold so bless them all

[percy2]

Actually in the early 80's I gave Swiss bank $100,000 to manage for me. After a year in very profitable markets they managed to reduce it to $80,000. They churned the hel_l out of it and when I would get a $3 dividend they would charge me $5 for handling it. Very expensive lesson, even if they look and sound responsible and respectable "DON'T TRUST ANYONE" unless you are constantly looking over their shoulder. And if you are going to monitor it that close you might as well do it yourself.

Not wanting to teach my grandmother to suck eggs but holding your wealth in currency amounts to much the same!

Cheers

[misterman21]

Sunday November 30 2008 (Irish Times)

It is claimed tens of thousands of workers could have their pensions wiped out over the next six months.

A confidential memo to Government from the Social and Family Affairs Minister Mary Hanafin reveals a total pension deficit of between €20 and €30 billion is expected.

This confidential document, seen by a Sunday newspaper, spells out in no uncertain terms that a number of high profile pension schemes are expected to collapse

[MJP]

Actually in the early 80's I gave Swiss bank $100,000 to manage for me. After a year in very profitable markets they managed to reduce it to $80,000. They churned the hel_l out of it and when I would get a $3 dividend they would charge me $5 for handling it. Very expensive lesson, even if they look and sound responsible and respectable "DON'T TRUST ANYONE" unless you are constantly looking over their shoulder. And if you are going to monitor it that close you might as well do it yourself.

Not wanting to teach my grandmother to suck eggs but holding your wealth in currency amounts to much the same!

Cheers

What's the price of physical gold right now. No, not ETF paper fantasy 'does not exist really' gold. Real gold.

I seriously doubt fiat currency will exist as a usable commodity or means of exchange under this failing system.

Now. Werr's moi petchfark gann? Woman! Bring trackta rownd tarp feeald!

(For our non-British member's, that last sentence was an attempt at a Somerset farming dialect, Somerset being a county/state in the south-west of England, which used to be based on agriculture until they gave up to lend each other bits of worthless paper with which, for a time, they exchanged for imported goods)

[percy2]

Percy Froggart reporting sir!

Colonel of the Yorkshire Republican Army!

Cheers

[MJP]

Sunday November 30 2008 (Irish Times)

It is claimed tens of thousands of workers could have their pensions wiped out over the next six months.

A confidential memo to Government from the Social and Family Affairs Minister Mary Hanafin reveals a total pension deficit of between €20 and €30 billion is expected.

This confidential document, seen by a Sunday newspaper, spells out in no uncertain terms that a number of high profile pension schemes are expected to collapse

To any younger viewers (I'm only 33 myself), it's time to leave the West. You have no chance of a stable life there. You will be unlikely to buy and pay off a house, no chance of a stable career, no chance of a pension, even though you are paying through the nose for one.

The airports that way . . .

(Probably going to get flamed for that one, but I speak as I find)

[percy2]

MJP,

A poor life in a 1st world country is generally what the poor in 3rd world countries aspire to.

Cheers

[MJP]

MJP,

A poor life in a 1st world country is generally what the poor in 3rd world countries aspire to.

Cheers

Yes, that's right.

But let's see where the wealth really is, because the way the UK's going it's not looking too bright for most. The debt mountain is so huge now . . .

You get what I mean.

[percy2]

Serpantly sir!

Cheers

[MJP]

Serpantly sir!

Cheers

Sorry Percy, but I'm not David Icke.

I do see living standards falling drastically in the West as the playing field is levelled through globalisation. Only thing is, this deflation/deleveraging will not support the unfunded pension and health care liabilities along with the mountain of debt.

The next generation has been well and truly . . .

[misterman21]

Serpantly sir!

Cheers

Sorry Percy, but I'm not David Icke.

I do see living standards falling drastically in the West as the playing field is levelled through globalisation. Only thing is, this deflation/deleveraging will not support the unfunded pension and health care liabilities along with the mountain of debt.

The next generation has been well and truly . . .

Quote from recen article in the Gaurdian:

'Royal Mail expects to be told that the hole in its pension fund has reached £7bn when a new review starts this autumn - twice the size of the current assessment.'