1 Year Non-b Visa Rule Changes In Penang

[ubonjoe]

A single is all you will ever get in Vientiane lots of reports about this.

Without a work permit you will never get a multiple entry visa from any nearby consulate.

[selftaopath]

, this "news" seems to be only relevant (if indeed it is confirmed as truth) to visa runners who go to Penang for that very purpose, hence skirting the laws of this country. I suspect that Thai Embassies in Singapore and other major cities have never heard of such news anyhow.

Perfectly true. A bona-fide businessman would not be doing visa runs to Penang, and Thai immigration knows this full well. Only people wanting to stay and work illegally on a shoestring budget and avoiding tax do that.

I mean, we all know that there are those who want to get around the rules and stay in a country unchecked and indefinitely in the 'Resident Tourist / Unpermitted Worker' category that has existed in Thailand for so long, even when they don't qualify, and in doing this they avoid paying the taxes that everyone else has to pay. What puzzles me is why these people howl so much in protest and deride Thailand so vigorously when the rules are, finally, enforced.

I have not read, maybe an oversight, it stated that another reason for someone with a work-permit to exit Thailand every three months is the size of the company. Isn’t it true (Sunbelt Asia) that a company owner or employee which does not employ a certain number of Thai workers will not be allowed a one year work permit? This includes an owner or managing director. However the individuals in the small business can pay all legal taxes including Social Fund etc. but still be denied a one year Non Immigration B Visa from Thailand’s consular in places like Laos, Cambodia, and Bangkok. It is irrelevant if all paperwork is submitted to substantiate a legitimate, functioning (but very small) company if there are limited or no Thai employees. This does not include the numerous Thai people employed to do accounting, and legal documentation by an outside company like Sunbelt Asia Group. I suspect this might be overlooked or not understood by many readers.

[ubonjoe]

KL and Penang were the only consulates giving multiple entry B visas. The others will issue single entry visas with a work permit or an application for one plus all the normal paperwork.

What Penang has done is raise the bar so high that they will not have to issue multiple entry visas anymore. They may still issue single entry visas with lower requirements.

There are lots of reasons that people are unable to get 1 year extensions of their permit to stay for working.

The most likely is company income and/or the salary requirements.

Selftaopath there is one error in your post where you include Bangkok in your list of consulates. There are no Thai consulates in Thailand.

[asiawatcher]

As with most 'Consulates' they are not usually well versed in corporate law. Authorised Capital and Paid Up Capital are two different things. As at commencement of business in Thailand there is no evidence required to provide actual capital in an account, this shows a paper entry only on a Balance Sheet. In real terms the only thing it does is prevent unscrupulous Farang Directors creating huge loan accounts allowing them to fleece 'interest' from the companies i.e. if you have 2M Baht PU Capital, why do you need to borrow from a director? These are usually rebanked salary over and above cost of living expenses and the tax paid where applicable. You will not be able to retain a Non Imm B Visa here without paying yourself at least 50,000 a month.

But to the PU Capital of the company again and Penang. To raise the capital of the company you simply need to do a book entry and that costs around 5,000 Baht per 1M Baht of increased capital. No issue really. Then the pencil neck public servants in Consulates can happily say they have justified their existence to their bosses back in Thailand. In reality Penang has never been an easy port for Visas. If you look at many of the people extending their visas there you will note that sadly there are a lot of not-so-correct business men.

To avoid the issue simply go to Singapore and get your Non Imm sorted there or if you are eligible for an APEC Card, these are 3 year cards and the Non Imm B Visa means you get it geared to the card i.e. 3 years! Cost of the card is about AUD200 for 3 years and gets you into all APEC countries without Visas (VN, China etc) and you can also beetle down the crew and diplomat lanes at Airports and fast track thru, even in the USA which is not yet an APEC Member. You can apply online - just google it.

The only hangup is a Non Imm attached to APEC is a non work permit visas and you can only be a 'consultant' within Thailand and must be paid from offshore (or of course in cash) and you must leave every 90 days. I have never tested my APEC at a border run (as I have never needed to) as I have a work permit. Just some thought for all the panic merchants at any rate.

Seasons best to all.

[asiawatcher]

Isn’t it true (Sunbelt Asia) that a company owner or employee which does not employ a certain number of Thai workers will not be allowed a one year work permit? This includes an owner or managing director.

The system for companies here is 2M Baht Paid Up Capital, 7 shareholders, 51% Thai and ordinary shares (not preference shares and limited votes) and you need 4 Thai employees for 1 work permit on minimum salary (about Baht 5,500 per month per person). This may have changed in more recent times but it is exponential i.e. 2 work permits, 8 employees and 4M Baht PU Capital and so on. To be a Travel Agent here you must have 10M Baht PU Capital and if you wish to float on SET also 10M Baht or more. BUt expect a visit from Revenue Dept, Labour Dept etc to ratify your employees exist. They also want to see evidence you are a legitimate business.

[beechguy]

Isn't it true (Sunbelt Asia) that a company owner or employee which does not employ a certain number of Thai workers will not be allowed a one year work permit? This includes an owner or managing director.

The system for companies here is 2M Baht Paid Up Capital, 7 shareholders, 51% Thai and ordinary shares (not preference shares and limited votes) and you need 4 Thai employees for 1 work permit on minimum salary (about Baht 5,500 per month per person). This may have changed in more recent times but it is exponential i.e. 2 work permits, 8 employees and 4M Baht PU Capital and so on. To be a Travel Agent here you must have 10M Baht PU Capital and if you wish to float on SET also 10M Baht or more. BUt expect a visit from Revenue Dept, Labour Dept etc to ratify your employees exist. They also want to see evidence you are a legitimate business.

I think now you can have fewer share holders, and only someplaces, not all require Thai employees for a work permit. Legally, I don't think there is requirement to have employees for a work permit, only for the one year "extension of stay".

[zakk9]

We have today received confirmation from the Thai Consulate in Penang that they will now require the company to show 8 million baht in registered capitalization as well as a valid work permit to obtain a one year multiple entry NON-IMM B (business) visa.

They have indicated that these are the MINIMUM requirements for the visa and they can still deny applications at their discretion (as always).

We are currently checking with the Embassy in KL to see if similar restrictions have been applied.

This is absurd. If I didn't know and love so many good Thai people I would want to say 'f*** them, let their economy crash and burn". About a year ago I started a thread here about my problems getting a non-B visa in Penang and was accused of being a F-up because I (incorrectly) blamed the agent. Using the same papers and application in the USA I had my visa in ten minutes. My screen name is DivinGuy but I am a SW engineer and did nothing but shut down my business in the US and restart it here at half-price to my clients. I had two million baht paid up capital. I do nothing but bring money to Thailand. I take no jobs away from anyone because my work is based on expertise in a few specific areas and connections in the US.

I am watching my friends suffer because exports are dropping and tourism (a MUCH smaller slice of the pie) is dropping, too. <deleted> are these idiots thinking? Are they that unaware of the problems Thailand is facing? Thailand didn't make these problems but still has to deal with them. Over the next couple of years the country will need all the income it can get. People like me do nothing but supply a small cash infusion

Eight million baht? So what does someone like me, but who doesn't want to go back to their home country, do? Create a fantasy that their expertise is worth six million baht?

I have never been part of the "They hate us, let's go home" camp, but this, finally, is pushing me that way. I stayed quiet about the 90/180 rule, I stayed quiet about the 15 days at a land border rule, but this is ridiculous. To all you lovers of the Thai Immigration Dept., please tell me how this will benefit the country or people.

(Mods I am sorry. If this post is too inflammatory then please delete it, but don't ban me. I am a long time member with few posts.)

Exactly my thoughts as well. I used to employ 15 people, doing mostly export from a still existing company with 2 millions in paid up capital. I had plans to re-open after taking a break for a couple of years. However, with terms like that, and rules that keep changing, there's no way I'm going to risk my own or other people's money doing business from Thailand.

Thailand is looking more and more like the banana hub of the world.

[Wyoming]

We have today received confirmation from the Thai Consulate in Penang that they will now require the company to show 8 million baht in registered capitalization as well as a valid work permit to obtain a one year multiple entry NON-IMM B (business) visa.

They have indicated that these are the MINIMUM requirements for the visa and they can still deny applications at their discretion (as always).

We are currently checking with the Embassy in KL to see if similar restrictions have been applied.

Thanks for that. Not being a worker, what were the requirements in the past?

get a good legal firm... w/gd advisor... always better

[ubonjoe]

Exactly my thoughts as well. I used to employ 15 people, doing mostly export from a still existing company with 2 millions in paid up capital. I had plans to re-open after taking a break for a couple of years. However, with terms like that, and rules that keep changing, there's no way I'm going to risk my own or other people's money doing business from Thailand.

Thailand is looking more and more like the banana hub of the world.

This change is only for getting a multipe entry B visa at the Penang consulate. This change comes down to them not wanting to issue multiple entry visas so they made it so hard nobody will apply.

There has been no change at other consulates, immigration, and the labor deparment.

[jdrake72]

time to move to laos

No, in Laos is nothing, not even coastline. In this case i will close down my company, and let my wife handle the business. shee do it anyway already 80% without me. Just need my advices sometime. So i'll go back to europe, at least for the summertime. Can safe a lot of money for company fees, tax, sozial security, balance sheet, etc. My wife (Thai)no need to pay any taxes. For 225'000 Dollar i can do my (the same) business in Europe. There is no need to invest that kind of money in a third world country. I'll see how many foerigner do the business in this way.

yes, fine. BUT, not all of them may be as luck as you.

I know many who have been disposed by their wives after putting the business in their names.

Fortunately ,it is not my case either. But we are aware we are always walking on the ridge of a ravine.

[beechguy]

We have today received confirmation from the Thai Consulate in Penang that they will now require the company to show 8 million baht in registered capitalization as well as a valid work permit to obtain a one year multiple entry NON-IMM B (business) visa.

They have indicated that these are the MINIMUM requirements for the visa and they can still deny applications at their discretion (as always).

We are currently checking with the Embassy in KL to see if similar restrictions have been applied.

Thanks for that. Not being a worker, what were the requirements in the past?

get a good legal firm... w/gd advisor... always better

That has nothing to do with it! Like Ubonjoe says, it is just one guy trying to implement his own version of the regulations. Just go to some other consulate and carry on as usual.

[john b good]

We have today received confirmation from the Thai Consulate in Penang that they will now require the company to show 8 million baht in registered capitalization as well as a valid work permit to obtain a one year multiple entry NON-IMM B (business) visa.

They have indicated that these are the MINIMUM requirements for the visa and they can still deny applications at their discretion (as always).

We are currently checking with the Embassy in KL to see if similar restrictions have been applied.

Thanks for that. Not being a worker, what were the requirements in the past?

The previous requirement was a valid one year work permit which would require 2 million baht in registered capital (1 million if married to a Thai national).

What do you have to show in the case that you are married to a Thai national?

e.g. I am married to a Thai national (married in farang land) have the marriage certificate but the marriage has not been registered in Thailand.

She didn't want it to be registered "because in her understanding if it were (registered in the realm) she would not be able to own land"

Would wifey have to be present when making the application?

[Lite Beer]

name='john b good' date='2008-12-28 16:16:04' post='2434046']

e.g. I am married to a Thai national (married in farang land) have the marriage certificate but the marriage has not been registered in Thailand.

She is legally Married to you under Thai law whether she registers it or not.

She didn't want it to be registered "because in her understanding if it were (registered in the realm) she would not be able to own land"

A Thai Lady with a foreign husband can buy and own land.

This is only the Penang Consulates ruling so I would have thought that the requirements would be the same.

[ubonjoe]

[

The previous requirement was a valid one year work permit which would require 2 million baht in registered capital (1 million if married to a Thai national).

What do you have to show in the case that you are married to a Thai national?

e.g. I am married to a Thai national (married in farang land) have the marriage certificate but the marriage has not been registered in Thailand.

She didn't want it to be registered "because in her understanding if it were (registered in the realm) she would not be able to own land"

Would wifey have to be present when making the application?

First the information that your wife cannot own land is wrong and has been that way for a number of years. You might be asked to write a letter saying that the money is hers when the porperty/land purchase is registered (my wife didn't need it),.

If you register your marriage and get an extension of your permit to stay you don't have to go through all this because all you need to show is your income of 40,000 baht or have 400,000 baht in the bank for 60 days.

You can also get a multiple entry O visa based upon marriage. With either of these you can get a work permit.

All capital and number of employee requirements are cut in half if you are married to a Thai.

You would have to show a Thai marriage certificate, her house book and ID card to prove marriage.

[Mario2008]

What do you have to show in the case that you are married to a Thai national?

e.g. I am married to a Thai national (married in farang land) have the marriage certificate but the marriage has not been registered in Thailand.

She didn't want it to be registered "because in her understanding if it were (registered in the realm) she would not be able to own land"

Would wifey have to be present when making the application?

As Lite Beer said, you are legaly married under Thai law. The registration in your case would be nothing more then notifying the Thai government of the marriage, which would make things more easy. She can own land when married to a foreigner, no problem.

Your wife doesn't need to be present to get a non-immigrant visa. To get an extension of stay for one year at the immigration office your wife needs to be present, as they want to check you are legaly married and do actualy live together as husband and wife.

[dasy]

This information is correct, we have just got back from Penang and it is the new boss that took the chair over there couple of months ago. We ended up with a three month single entry B. Waste of plane tickets etc etc.

Why he changed the rules? Because he can.

[ubonjoe]

This information is correct, we have just got back from Penang and it is the new boss that took the chair over there couple of months ago. We ended up with a three month single entry B. Waste of plane tickets etc etc.

Why he changed the rules? Because he can.

Agree

Thats the way it is.

If they don't want to issue multipe entries just raise the bar high enough so no body can meet them.

TIT

[thrilled]

This may also have some effect on those of us that were planning to go for residency in the future as you have to show a MINIMUM of 3 years on a Non Imm visa to qualify. Thailand for Thais.....

Anyway Merry Christmas all and a safe and....prosperous.... New Year!

It would probably be easire to live in A small town and pay the local police off

[Lite Beer]

This may also have some effect on those of us that were planning to go for residency in the future as you have to show a MINIMUM of 3 years on a Non Imm visa to qualify. Thailand for Thais.....

Not True.

You have to have at least 3 years of Annual Extensions of Stay as one of many requirements.

[davejonesbkk]

A few weeks back when the 15 day border run rule was introduced, there were many smug comments on this site from people who felt they were above those who for whatever reason live here on tourist visas. One or two posters said that it would not be long before immo took aim at business, marriage or retirement visa holders. Farangs are seen as a cash cow. They will squeeze each section of the expat community as far as they they think they can. It is not wise to gloat at the misfortunes of others. You may be next.

Hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a healthy and very prosperous New Year.

Yeah totally agree and a big SOM NOM NAAAAAAAAAA to all those who did gloat and are now getting squeezed over your non imm b visas!

[beechguy]

A few weeks back when the 15 day border run rule was introduced, there were many smug comments on this site from people who felt they were above those who for whatever reason live here on tourist visas. One or two posters said that it would not be long before immo took aim at business, marriage or retirement visa holders. Farangs are seen as a cash cow. They will squeeze each section of the expat community as far as they they think they can. It is not wise to gloat at the misfortunes of others. You may be next.

Hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a healthy and very prosperous New Year.

Yeah totally agree and a big SOM NOM NAAAAAAAAAA to all those who did gloat and are now getting squeezed over your non imm b visas!

This is just one man in Penang implementing his version of the regulations. Not a widespread crackdown on "B" visas. It is not a problem to get a visa of some type for most people, if they want to stay in thailand they should consider getting one.

[Thaibloke]

What is your problem here ? If you run a company here, you should not need to leave and renew your work permit & visa outside of Thailand. You can either do it at immigration in Bangkok or at the BOI one stop service centre.

I have been here for 11 years on a work permit & visa, running a company and at no point have I had to leave the country to renew my visa & work permit.

Of course, if you don't have a work permit & are working here illegally, then it would be an issue.

the reason you no problem is because your visa is subject to the same rules as 11 years ago

i have non imm b visa isssued in aussie 11 years ago never even had business and never leave either

[tracer]

What is your problem here ? If you run a company here, you should not need to leave and renew your work permit & visa outside of Thailand. You can either do it at immigration in Bangkok or at the BOI one stop service centre.

I have been here for 11 years on a work permit & visa, running a company and at no point have I had to leave the country to renew my visa & work permit.

Of course, if you don't have a work permit & are working here illegally, then it would be an issue.

the reason you no problem is because your visa is subject to the same rules as 11 years ago

i have non imm b visa isssued in aussie 11 years ago never even had business and never leave either

I have been here at least 24 years...

I had many extensions in Thailand when I had a non-b, went for about 10 years not outside and now enjoy (well I get bored...) not working. While I would admid these changes are worrying, they are survivable, and especially in Penang as its very easy with the same rules upsetting us to also upset local business people in Malaysia!

And they complain loudly!

So normally it results in many complaints and then plans get 'modified'. All it means is that new boss is now seen to be energetic....

I have been here long enough to recognize that what is happening is almost a standard procedure...

If you work here in Thailand you need a workpermit even if working via the net if you want to use non-b (as far as I know).

Ok, you pay a little bit of tax, pay the social security and include the wife in it or whoever else is working for you (could even be a cleaner, niece of wife, whatever...) AND, you may be VAT liable due to internet work. Some firms were taken to court on this and lost... Ask an expert on this..

Workpermit you apply for it in Thailand and I cannot remember I ever extended it or had to.

Social security by the way saves money due to medical costs, you donot have to pay!

Ok, I have a retirement visum now, NOT by choice, a motorbike accident too many; immigration as I was in the process of extending it advised me to do it...

Looking back on what I did, it wasnt always the smartest thing but on the whole I am happy with it.

Finally: there are too many socalled expats here or tourists who complain to much to immigration etc. Donot forget they can in practise remove any unwanted person... MUCH better/easier to get what you want by staying polite... Ask advice etc.

[spencerdharmagrafix]

This may also have some effect on those of us that were planning to go for residency in the future as you have to show a MINIMUM of 3 years on a Non Imm visa to qualify. Thailand for Thais.....

Anyway Merry Christmas all and a safe and....prosperous.... New Year!

we should make a massive petition calling for the immigration l;aws to stop constantly changing and also from being different in each embassy/consulat

for example, you can get only one tourist visa in penang, but you can get as many multiple entries as you wish in Laos (Vientiane) so try it in Vientiane and youll see a different attitude for sure.

Penang is the worst place to ask for a visa.

Non immigrant visas can be bought easily from Mister Jaime the Thai Consulate in Barcelona - but he will only issue 9 months instead of 12 months and have to leave every 90 days.

This is useless for those wishing to stay 3 years because in order for those 3 years to count your visa must be one year so you can go register after 90 days in the kingdom. 3 years after that you are entitled to apply for residence.

The constant changing of the laws in Thail;and is causing a lowering in the amount of foreigners willing to risk coming here to live, or to invest - i am sure that if everybody got together and make a protest petition form and get thousands of us to sign it electronically and send to the ministry of tourism and also immigration and other related bodies, then they would realize the damage they are doing Thais are after all "Gop Nai Gala" (กบในกะลา) and forget to think that the people who are affected by thewir ever changing of mind and laws might be getting pissed off (we are) - making the bad publicity Thailand is making for itself visible will get the effect we need (more friendliness towards foreign investor or retirees etc). Thai wives get the right to buy land in our countries and work permit automatically - why shouldnt we enjoy the same rights?

what? did i hear someone say then we'd steal all their jobs? - yeah yeah - at 5000 baht a month im sure to go be secretary of a golf club (i was offered that once for 5000 a month by a thai golf driving course owner). - the wages offered to Thais are much lower and we would not be able to take most of the jobs on the market at those wages. So their employee count would not lower. The amount of Thais able to con farang would reduce, more genuine marriages would arise (if we were allowed to buy houses and land in our own names), and also more investors and farang would move here, feeling safe and happy in the fact that they dont have to be so wary of dodgy epeople.

Thai people are a pretty decent bucnh of people but get a bad reputation because farang will always have a load of the bad ones and leeches stuck to them because the laws permit Thais to take advantage of farang . this is due to our lack of rights or citizenship.

This is undemocratic and one day will have to be changed.

We can make a change here there are enough farang in thailand to make a difference on this issue if we apply some friendly pressure.

its just a matter of when we are going to stand up and be counted. Now? or in 20 years, when our children do it for us.???

I prefer right now and would be first in line with a placard to put my money where my mouth is.

[dreamtime]

This is Thailand. TIT.

we should make a massive petition calling for the immigration l;aws to stop constantly changing and also from being different in each embassy/consulat

Democratic? Thailand? This is funny!

This is undemocratic and one day will have to be changed.

We can make a change here there are enough farang in thailand to make a difference on this issue if we apply some friendly pressure.

its just a matter of when we are going to stand up and be counted. Now? or in 20 years, when our children do it for us.???

I prefer right now and would be first in line with a placard to put my money where my mouth is.

The solution is not to go to Thailand until they enact friendlier laws to Farang and foreign investment. They will sooner than later. Because right now Thailand has been slammed with unemployment and the loss of billions because of gov ineptness in handling situations. When the rich elite start panicking, as they will, they will start enacting laws that start to resemble some logical sanity.

For now, try South America or a number of other countries in Asia.

[midas]

This is Thailand. TIT.

we should make a massive petition calling for the immigration l;aws to stop constantly changing and also from being different in each embassy/consulat

Democratic? Thailand? This is funny!

This is undemocratic and one day will have to be changed.

We can make a change here there are enough farang in thailand to make a difference on this issue if we apply some friendly pressure.

its just a matter of when we are going to stand up and be counted. Now? or in 20 years, when our children do it for us.???

I prefer right now and would be first in line with a placard to put my money where my mouth is.

The solution is not to go to Thailand until they enact friendlier laws to Farang and foreign investment. They will sooner than later. Because right now Thailand has been slammed with unemployment and the loss of billions because of gov ineptness in handling situations. When the rich elite start panicking, as they will, they will start enacting laws that start to resemble some logical sanity.

For now, try South America or a number of other countries in Asia.

But you dont get it - even this will not force them to change -

have you ever seen or heard a Thai say " look I admit I was wrong " ?

[dreamtime]

The solution is not to go to Thailand until they enact friendlier laws to Farang and foreign investment. They will sooner than later. Because right now Thailand has been slammed with unemployment and the loss of billions because of gov ineptness in handling situations. When the rich elite start panicking, as they will, they will start enacting laws that start to resemble some logical sanity.

For now, try South America or a number of other countries in Asia.

But you dont get it - even this will not force them to change -

have you ever seen or heard a Thai say " look I admit I was wrong " ?

You can't force them to change. So why bother. It will only drive you crazy.

A Thai would not normally admit he was wrong as he would lose face. That's a no no in their culture. Thai culture and farang culture is like oil and water. No matter how hard you try they do not mix.

[ubonjoe]

I would have to go back 2 or 3 pages before I found a post that was on topic.

The original topic concerned the Penang consulate raising the required captital from 2 million baht to 8 to get a multiple entry B visa.

Since there is little chance it will get back on that topic I am closing it.