stingray Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 time to move to laos No, in Laos is nothing, not even coastline. In this case i will close down my company, and let my wife handle the business. shee do it anyway already 80% without me. Just need my advices sometime. So i'll go back to europe, at least for the summertime. Can safe a lot of money for company fees, tax, sozial security, balance sheet, etc. My wife (Thai)no need to pay any taxes. For 225'000 Dollar i can do my (the same) business in Europe. There is no need to invest that kind of money in a third world country. I'll see how many foerigner do the business in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob6023 Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Maybe they're just trying to dis courage the "marginal types" who run slum beer bars,and hide a large portion of their cash Can't say I blame them not wanting these type. Not a legitimate business in my view. On the other hand a lot of bar girls would suffer w/o a place to hawk their wares. And then there are the families up north who "grow" the bar girls and depend on the monthly income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPI Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Well folks I don't know what all the fuss is about? I was in immigration on Monday and all of the signs there said 2 million in registered capital plus all of the other requirements! It's must be just a Penang thing again....they did much the same with retirement visa's a couple of years ago...go to Singapore for the extra couple of dollars and less hassle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalchromakey Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Well folks I don't know what all the fuss is about? I was in immigration on Monday and all of the signs there said 2 million in registered capital plus all of the other requirements! It's must be just a Penang thing again....they did much the same with retirement visa's a couple of years ago...go to Singapore for the extra couple of dollars and less hassle Singapore have not issued 1 year Mulltiple Entry Non B's for some years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imkah Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 What's all the fuzz about? I have a feeling that all the complaints and worst case scenarios are produced by those of you who never figured out how to operate and live in Thailand. Neither did I, by the way, but I changed my mode of operation when I discovered this, and have lived happily here ever since. I even had the honour of adressing my fellow countrymen at The Royal Thai Embassy of my home country about why they should choose Thailand as their preferred country for co-productions. And I will continue to do so. I am leaving my town-house, my neighbours, my life as I have known for years. Not because of changing rules, not because of politics, but because Europe and China offer better choices at the moment. And when there is little breath left in me and my wife; we will be back! Knowing that Thailand will welcome us as ever. Get your act together, or leave. It's as easy as that! Merry Christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asfscott Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 ...(Mods I am sorry. If this post is too inflammatory then please delete it, but don't ban me. I am a long time member with few posts.) You are NOT INFLAMMATORY!! You are correct! THEY ARE COMPLETE IDIOTS! NOW? at this time?? They pull this? This is the Thai mentality that goes back since I have been living here for more than 10 years! When things go bad some think, ohh, I'm not making any money, so I will raise my price on everything to make more!! This is some of the Thai thinking, they NEVER think about long term, only NOW, I WANT MONEY NOW! They have completely screwed the tourists industry of coarse! Very few people will come here now except the whore mongers and the stupid people that didn't notice a MOB CAN TAKE OVER AN AIRPORT HERE AND GET AWAY WITH IT!! BREAK THE LAW AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE MORONS!! NOTHING! So, now they will try and screw the small foreign company's and expats making a honest living here by raising the capital on multiple B visas?? Penang was the best and an easy place to get your multiple one year visa, as I received mine recently there, even though I only had a copy of my work permit book. They did give me a multiple one year B, but I did have to have the letter and all the paper work for the company 2M capital. The guy said I was really lucky that the old dude was there that day, if not, without the work permit book, they would have not ok'd the multiple entry visa. I have heard every place else was very difficult to get the multiple one year B. If you don't have a multiple entry, then EVERY time you leave the country you have to PAY for a re-entry permit, which, by the way, they raised the price on!! I can imagine there are a lot of us here trying to support families like me, working for a small company and we all contribute a lot to the Thai economy!!....GEE....that is pretty smart thinking!!! Just make it that much harder for us!!!?? A lot of people always pull this BS "Well, if you don't like it, then leave". Well, if you think that way then you dont have a clue about how many times the Thai's will move that goal post farther and farther out on you and change this and that law!! And if you are committed here with a family like mine where your son and daughter are just about to enter college, then that cleshay don't cut it! I love it here, I love my family, I have learned so much about heart, body and soul from the Thai people and the majority of the Thai's are very, very good nature and genuinely good hearted (jai dee) people, but some of them who make these laws up are completely stupid Thank you Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted December 24, 2008 Share Posted December 24, 2008 Scott, I share your sentiments, there is much to love about Thailand and Thai people, but the constantly changing rules are a source of frustration and real instability. Had to ask: what is cleshay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Scott, I share your sentiments, there is much to love about Thailand and Thai people, but the constantly changing rules are a source of frustration and real instability. Had to ask: what is cleshay? cliché? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 My wife (Thai) no need to pay any taxes. OK, so your Thai wife pursues the traditional Thai practice of tax avoidance, running your old business here in Thailand. For 225'000 Dollar i can do my (the same) business in Europe. Does that mean you plan setting up the same fiscally invisible (to the taxman) operation for $225k in Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowery99 Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 I love how some people on this board are always saying, well if you don't like it go home or go somewhere else....... I am not affected by this rule change but I have been by others. The problem is that they apply them arbitrarily (or if you want; by Thai logic) and that is why people get upset. As most countries they make it easy if your rich and you are in the under-desired group rules are tough. I don't like how some board members here, act like their schit don't stink because they fit within the guidelines of what is legal. Sometimes people fit into a space in the rule where their life was just made much more difficult because of a change and this is just a place to get information about it, no more. These threads get very long and boring to read when they become these flamming like teens about fellow farangs who fall between the cracks of legallity. If you agree with the Thais that it is a good rule, well bully for you. I hope that karma doesn't ever get back at you for saying some of the patronizing crap you did on here. And yeah, it is easier to do some things in other countries, I can't blame people who come to that conclusion eventually and think it is sad the Thais don't welcome us as much as they did previuosly (it will be really sad for them at some point). I know 2 businesses that were going to move some operations here recently and didn't because of the airport thing and a percieption of instablity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfmanjack Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 QUOTE (vitalia @ 2008-12-24 13:28:35) What is your problem here ? If you run a company here, you should not need to leave and renew your work permit & visa outside of Thailand. You can either do it at immigration in Bangkok or at the BOI one stop service centre. I have been here for 11 years on a work permit & visa, running a company and at no point have I had to leave the country to renew my visa & work permit. Of course, if you don't have a work permit & are working here illegally, then it would be an issue. This only works if your Thai registered company employs 4 Thai employees. Otherwise you cannot renew your Non B visa in Thailand because as part of the process Immigration will check out the number of staff your company employs with the Labour Department. It has nothing to do with paying taxes or being legal. I have been here for 4 years now and have no choice because of the rules but to renew Non B visa OUTSIDE Thailand. Welcome to Thailand ... Exactly. There are people here that run a business from their home like a website or consulting that do pay taxes or would pay taxes if the 4 thai employee rule was not there. Many businesses do not need 4 thai employees and why should they pay 25,000 baht per month for 4 thais to do nothing????? I do know several people that run websites that have been doing pretty well but they only have 1 thai employee and that is all that is needed for them to get their work done. They can not get an extension here because of this rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alboy301 Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 time to move to laos I bet u don't!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toret Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Time to move to the Philippines perhaps. I will think about it when breaking the last six commandments is no longer the national sport there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrenn Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) You have to take into account what they consider work. I don't believe i would need a work permit to sign a check in the USA. I know many thais that have 10 year visas that fly to the USA to participate in Trade Shows. They do not need work permits to work at a trade show. Technically in Thailand you do although I have never known it to be enforced. I was told that when I used to fly here to purchase merchandise to sell in the USA that i needed a "B" visa and a work permit. I only flew in for 30 days at a time 3 or 4 times a year. Imagine the nightmare i would have to go through to get work permits for each 30 day stay since i was always in the USA for 2 months then thailand for 1 month then back to the USA for 2 months. I would have had to apply for a new work permit 3 or 4 times a year. You are right that, technically, you need a non-B to visit Thailand for non-employment type business visits such as visiting suppliers/clients and attending trade fairs, and some people actually do this. I never heard of a multi-entry non-imm B being declined for people who use it in the way that immigration intends - short visits, applied for in the home country, while obviously residing outside Thailand and spending a short amount of total time in Thailand without residing or taking up employment. Problems only seem to arise where non-imm B holders spend all of their time in Thailand with no work permit, or with a work permit but running an outfit that doesn't meet the criteria on employing locals, making it obvious to immigration that they are living and working and not just business visiting. These are the people who are, in the eyes of immigration, are breaking the rules by not regularising their stay with a work permit, limited company that looks like a limited company rather than a sole proprietorship, competing with the locals, not paying taxes and so on. Only these people are getting squeezed with rule changes, and this tightening of the screws does look like a pattern that should be taken into account when making long term plans on where to live. Loopholes are a dangerous place to live, and temporary business visas the world over are subject to rule changes that can exclude people as the host country changes its strategy on migrant workers. My advice to anyone planning to live in a country on a temporary resident visa like a Thai non-imm, a US H1-B, an Aussie 457, and so on, would be: 1) Have a plan B in case the rules change agaist you, as well they might 2) Get permanent residence as soon as you are entitled to it 3) Don't live in loopholes and expect any kind of security 4) Never, ever plan on staying permanently if you can only just meet the requirements for a temporary resident visa lke a non-imm. The rules will get tougher as time goes by and you could find yourself getting turfed out at short notice Incidentally, most short stay business visitors don't seem to bother with non-imm B visas at all, and just get the stamp on arrival. Not technically legal, but for short stays on genuine business I have never heard of anyone having problems. Edited December 25, 2008 by dbrenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivinGuy Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 No I am quite legal, visa and WP are both up to date. I don't have the right mindset to do risky things that could get me jailed, heavily fined, or deported. I simply found requiring that amount of capital for a non-B to be a ridculous change - I capitalized the co. at 2 million baht as was required, and that was certainly all I needed, since my costs beyond salary and rent are virtuall nil. The fact I had just come back from the pub didn't help. I rarely rant. I use a non-B multiple entry. Are you saying I can get a new visa without leaving the country? That I did not know. I assumed one had to leave the country every fifteen months to get a new visa. Since there's a Thai consulate near my home in the US, it's not a big deal since I go back periodically for visits and business anyway. I have to go home in March for a few weeks anyway, but will try to get my new visa here in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beechguy Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) You and a couple of others have missed the point. This is just one guy in Penang writing and enforcing his "version" of the law. Also, I think you are misrepresenting the situation when it comes to extensions of stay. It is not possible for a new start-up to meet those requirements. But, that would not make their owners any less legitimate or "Bona Fide". But, for visa puposes, show me where it requires a company to have more than 2 million Baht registered capital. Show me where it says I have to have 4 Thai employees to apply for a "B" visa. Show me where I even have to have a visa at all to "own" a business. Edited December 25, 2008 by beechguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivinGuy Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) DivinGuy, maybe in your frustration you exaggerate a bit when you say you got the visa in an hour? I have worked with most of them in the US and even knew some consulars personally and I still waited a day for my visa.[/b] Stileo, Thai consulates in the US have areas of responsibility and it is common for them to refuse service if you do not have proof of residence in there area. Not too hard to get around but sometimes causes problems. Also, Chicago is not a big consulate in the same sense as LA and NY;much less business. Finally, if you take away Chicago, NY, LA and the Embassy, all the others are actually honorary consulates. Nope. Not an exaggeration. I went to the Thai consulate in Portland, Oregon. There was only one other person there, getting a tourist visa. After he finished I handed over my papers, talked to the lady in the consulate for a few minutes, and gave her $150.00. She walked into a back office and came right back with my passport. The visa is a stamp rather than an adhesive sheet like a tourist visa, but immigration seems to like it just fine. I had thought I would have to wait a day or pay to have it mailed to Seattle, so I was quite shocked - pleasantly so. Looks like the price has gone to 175.00, but I'm almost positive it was 150.00 last year. Edited to add two things: The lady I dealt with was American, not Thai, and she said they would be moving before Jan 1, 2009. Edited December 25, 2008 by ubonjoe removed un-need quote and spaces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivinGuy Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) Hmmm - I pay all my taxes - Sunbelt handles my accounts and I hired them make sure everything is legal - only tax I don't pay is VAT, because my services are delivered in the USA and according to my accountant, because service is not delivered here, VAT is not applicable - had to redo my first two invoices because of that. As an American Amity Treaty company I was able to get a WP without four Thai employees. However, it sounds like the extension of my visa is out if four employees is a requirement - I only have one. No big deal as I wanted to go back to the USA to schmooze with clients and visit friends anyway. FWIW, when I submitted my visa application in the US, I submitted copies of all my corporate papers as supplied by Sunbelt, not just an invitation letter. I have no idea if that sped up the process, or the consulate was just empty and saw no reason to hold my passport for a day. Edited December 25, 2008 by DivinGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beechguy Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) Hmmm - I pay all my taxes - Sunbelt handles my accounts and I hired them make sure everything is legal - only tax I don't pay is VAT, because my services are delivered in the USA and according to my accountant, because service is not delivered here, VAT is not applicable - had to redo my first two invoices because of that. As an American Amity Treaty company I was able to get a WP without four Thai employees. However, it sounds like the extension of my visa is out if four employees is a requirement - I only have one. No big deal as I wanted to go back to the USA to schmooze with clients and visit friends anyway.FWIW, when I submitted my visa application in the US, I submitted copies of all my corporate papers as supplied by Sunbelt, not just an invitation letter. I have no idea if that sped up the process, or the consulate was just empty and saw no reason to hold my passport for a day. My situation is a bit similar, and that's one of my points. Some people may not be operating a business in a conventional manner, but that doesn't make them any less legitimate. The comments about "Bona Fide" businesses not needing to go get a visa just shows ignorance and stupidity to me. Not everyone needs a multi-entry visa or an "extension of stay". Also, it may be more convenient for many people to apply outside of their own country. Bottom line is some of these guys don't know what the fuk they're talking about and has nothing to do with the basis of the topic. Edited December 25, 2008 by beechguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KfromCanada Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 hello As a tourist, and living here for the last 11yrs, Thailand is driving itself out the tourist buisness. Who lets there countries airports to be taken over by a bunch of gate crashers. This has been coming for the last # of years, they do not like the Farang.... and it is very plain to me that they are getting rid of us. I will be looking to relocate as are a # of us trying to spend our money in places who don't mind it. I am a very law abiding person just trying to find a palce that is nice to retire, I have no agenda, nor do iIwant any problems with anyone. If Thailand does not my cash anymore, Mayalsia does..as is where I am for the first time Christmas here and NY... It has been great... Merry Christmas all around!!!! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukmasterzzzz Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 there is no end in sight to the changing rules is there hi there i was aproched the other day by a school in pattaya offering studend visas for 15 month with only 1 time leaveing the country and thereafter going to local office to get your 90 day stamp they want 28000 for this i think its a good deal maybe you know difrent . this would suit me good if can do save me going back to the uk every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 there is no end in sight to the changing rules is there hi there i was aproched the other day by a school in pattaya offering studend visas for 15 month with only 1 time leaveing the country and thereafter going to local office to get your 90 day stamp they want 28000 for this i think its a good deal maybe you know difrent . this would suit me good if can do save me going back to the uk every year Check the school out. Talk to students to see how it is. How long its been in business. Vist the school during class hours. There are several schools in .Pattaya Check some other ones. Member in Phuket got all set up in a school. School went out of business doors locked no info. Money is gone. Learning thai is a good way to stay for a while with our doing border/visa runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etiennesorn Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 Hi,i m new user in this forum,and see you stay long time in thailand i think you can help me,maybe,no i m sure you can so,i m french and my wife she thai,we already married,in july and august we want to come in bangkok for work as herbalife distributor i think you that compagny,it a compagny of:''Thai direct Selling Association'',it s mean you can sell product from your home,i call already herbalife thailand,i don t need work permit,but i want stay there two months,which visa i need,and if our business grown more than 50000 bath for month i want to stay there for developped it,how can i stay with my wife? Thanks a lots in advance,i don t know your name,me i m Etienne and my wife,Sorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beechguy Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 (edited) Etiennesorn, since you are married to a Thai national, you could apply for a Non-immigrant "O" visa. A single entry would allow you to stay 90 days, a 1 year multi-entry would allow you to enter 90 days at a time for one year. I think you would need get a work permit, and I suggest you contact a law firm for legal advice concerning your business. Edited December 25, 2008 by beechguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Hi,i m new user in this forum,and see you stay long time in thailand i think you can help me,maybe,no i m sure you canso,i m french and my wife she thai,we already married,in july and august we want to come in bangkok for work as herbalife distributor i think you that compagny,it a compagny of:''Thai direct Selling Association'',it s mean you can sell product from your home,i call already herbalife thailand,i don t need work permit,but i want stay there two months,which visa i need,and if our business grown more than 50000 bath for month i want to stay there for developped it,how can i stay with my wife? Thanks a lots in advance,i don t know your name,me i m Etienne and my wife,Sorn First the visa: You can apply at the Thai consulate a for non immigrant O visa either single or multiple entry since you are married to a Thai that is good for 90 days each entry. If you can prove you have an income of 40,000 baht or have 400,000 baht in a thai bank for 60 days you can get a 1 year extension. If not then I suggest that you get a multiple entry visa. To do work of anykind you need a work permit. If you think you can be successful in the business your wife could set up what is called sole trader business. With that you would need 2 Thai employees and meet business income requrements to get a work permit. It would be best to contact a lawyer to get this set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Even if this doesnt apply to everyone, I still think it sends the " wrong message " to potential new small business owners straight after the airport fiasco. Thai's really do take farang small investors for granted - they assume there will always be plenty more " mugs " who are willing to come up with any amount to open a business here and then on top of that employ 4 inefficient workers whether you need them or not What happens next time if its 12 or 15 million ? Where else in the world do they continually over an over again raise the bar for foreign small business operators ? It sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 So the way to attract those 'internet only' people, who effectively need nothing more out of thailand than a net connection.. Is to put ever higher barriers of entry in thier way to legalising themselves ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyphuketLife Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 (edited) So the way to attract those 'internet only' people, who effectively need nothing more out of thailand than a net connection.. Is to put ever higher barriers of entry in thier way to legalising themselves ??? I don't get it, the internet only people I would think would be what they would want. 1. they work for overseas companies. 2. them working does not take away 1 thai job 3. 100% of their money is foriegn. 4. They earn foriegn money and everymonth spend on houses, food, internet, phone, ect.... They are taking nothing out of the Thai economy only putting into the thai economy.... It seams like a perfect foriegner to me..... Edited December 26, 2008 by MyphuketLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted December 26, 2008 Share Posted December 26, 2008 Warning This topic is about the Penang consulate and only the Penang consulate raising the capital requrements for a non-b multiple entry visa. Please stay on topic and keep your posts civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CycleinParadise Posted December 27, 2008 Share Posted December 27, 2008 (edited) I am just back from Laos / Vietiane, (21.-22.12.2008) I showed 4,1 Mio Baht Company and Workpermit, but got only 90 Days. But theres no personal Speech or replay about the reason: Could be because - i have already 2 times one year and 1 90 Days before - they didnt really read the Formular (Multiply, 1 year) - they have other resons. So keep it for Information. I will be there again in April ... Edited December 27, 2008 by CycleinParadise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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