Reporting place of residence every 90 days

[shippo]

I just got my Thai girlfriend to phone up immigration to ask them if it is true that the fine for not reporting is 5000 plus 200 baht per day and they said it's not, you only have to pay 2000 baht irrespective of how late you are reporting.

So maybe a correction to your website is in order, no?

[george]

Thanks for heads up, shippo!

Someone here actually caught and paid fees for later report? Please confirm these new figures, and I will update the page.

Thanks in advance!

[lopburi3]

I can confirm others reporting that indeed they had been hit up to pay 2,000 baht due to late reporting.  Believe 2k has always been the fine since this requirement went into practice a couple of years ago.

[Richard Hall]

Thanks for heads up, shippo!

Someone here actually caught and paid fees for later report? Please confirm these new figures, and I will update the page.

Thanks in advance!

Although it was already quite a while ago when I reported my address under the 90 days regulation about 4 weeks late I was charged 2000 Baht back then.

Actually, the 90 days story has nothing to do with at all with the visa itself or overstaying a visa and therefore the 200 Baht fine per day does not not apply either. Once those officers in room 401 even mentioned that some people mixed up the newly fixed date with a visa extension - an error that get you in deep problems.

When applying for a new passport don't forget to take out the form that usually gets stapled to the last page of your passport. Obviously, your last reporting date does not get necessarily put into a cental database means if you have no prove for you last date of appearance it will require an awful lot of talking to get around the fine. Just in case you do not know, there is no need to show up yourself but anyone can LEGALLY (other than the visa run) do the "90 day job" for you.

[shippo]

Richard, I see from your post that you have set up your own company on Thailand.

If it;s not too much trouble, please tell mr about how you did this. Did you have to have 2 million baht to set up like this website says you do?

If this is true, does the 2 million baht rule apply to Thai nationals too?

Thanks.

[Curious George]

Maybe this answers the 2000 or 5000 baht question, quoted from another board:

2000 baht is the fine if you pay at the immigration point - whereever.

5000 is the fine if you don't pay and it goes to court...plus 200 baht a day for the outstanding time

can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to want to take it to court!

[marty]

As far as I am aware, 2 million Baht is the minimum registered capital required to form a company. That is different from the paid-up (paid-in ) capital of a business. Not sure whether there is a prescribed minimum for the latter, believe it is the actual amount needed to start the business.

[Roger13]

I don't know how new this is - but:

There is now a notice in Room 401

giving details of how the 90 day

Residence reporting can now be done

by Registered Mail using the necessary form.

Roger

[Richard Hall]

Richard, I see from your post that you have set up your own company on Thailand.

If it;s not too much trouble, please tell mr about how you did this. Did you have to have 2 million baht to set up like this website says you do?

If this is true, does the 2 million baht rule apply to Thai nationals too?

Thanks.

Hi Shippo,

First of all the question is whether you want a foreigner (for example yourself as the Managing Director) to work in your company and apply for a work permit.

In the affirmative, you have to establish a Co. Ltd. with seven shareholders and minimum capital of 2 million Baht. Also you require a minimum of 4 Thai employees for each work permit. Although in the meantime the foreiger can hold more than 49% of the shares this is not recommendable because your company will not be considered a Thai juristic person with all the benefits coming with that but rather an alien limited in its business activities.

All is about whether you are considering to employ foreigners. If not, you can establish a Co. Ltd. with a lower capital of 1 million Baht but anyway in this case it might even be better you go with a Partnership Ltd. instead. You do not have the hassle with this  minimum of 7 shareholders and can found this company even with capital far below 1 million Baht. Things are much much easier if a foreigner just acts as an investor in a company but without a work permit you must not even legally empty the garbage bin in the company you are holding 49% share of.    

In the past it was enough to have the capital just on the paper but since last year the rules have become much stricter and there is a need nowadays to provide evidence that the capital  actually exists.

I am in a strange situation now of being my own employer. Since I am the only one signing for the company whenever my work permit and visa is due for extension I fill in the relevant form in both parts. Once as the employee seeking the extension  and then as the employer expressing the willingness to employ  myself (but this time I sign by using the company stamp).

If you have eventually established everything legally but your business (and tax payments) are not as per the expectations of the tax authorities be ready to go through hard times. It may even  be necessary to increase the capital of your company (mine is now 2.5 million Baht for about 1 year) because authorities may be wondering how a relatively low performing company can manage the luxury of having a foreign employee and therefore assume "black" business transactions without tax payments.

Although things are much more difficult when having foreign employees, pure Thai companies (no foreign workers) are not off the hook either because companies are certainly the ideal source for taxes. If the tax authorities are not happy with your tax payments (and usually they are never) they show up at your place and give you a real hard time with wild accusation trying to get your blood cooking  and eventually admit in anger all your failures and "indecent" activities. Even if your eventually have managed to have your own Partnership Ltd.  or Co. Ltd. be ready to tear out gray hairs on a regualr base.

I came here 3.5 years ago with nothing but a 60 day tourist visa and a half established company which I was not even holding share in at this stage but eventually acquired 49% share, was appointed Managing Director, had my tourist visa changed into a Non-Immigrant B (Khun Pallop in Immigration Department, Soi Suan Plu is the man in charge for those changes) and never ever had to leave the country ever since. My company, my work permit and my visa record are as clean as this can humanly be in Thailand but this surely had its price (no, not financially by tea money payments but in the currency of plenty of head aches and wrecking the nerves).  Everything can be done but be ready to get to know what crossing a desert with bare feed means.

Good luck.

[jayenram]

Since obtaining my retirement visa, I have reported every 90 days. However, an American friend never reports and has never received a reprimand or fine. I don't understand.

[Axel]

Richard, I see from your post that you have set up your own company on Thailand.

If it;s not too much trouble, please tell mr about how you did this. Did you have to have 2 million baht to set up like this website says you do?

If this is true, does the 2 million baht rule apply to Thai nationals too?

Thanks.

Hi Shippo,

First of all the question is whether you want a foreigner (for example yourself as the Managing Director) to work in your company and apply for a work permit.

Richard,

very clear and nice explanation. Small thing, you need 7 Thai-employees for each foreigner to be employed. When applying for the company licences you can start with paying in 1 million Baht, once you apply for a work permit, this must be increased to 2 million. Annual extension of visa and subsequently work permit takes a couple of trips to the immigration, at least once in person. You will get an extension for one month marked "under consideration come back in person on date so and so". With this you extent your WP for the same period. Usally after 2 of those extension they do give you, retroactively, i.e. from the date of the previous visa another year. Provided of course, your presented balance sheets are proper, your staff list of at least seven Thais is ok and most important your tax-receipts. Once, may be twice you can report losses and NO tax payment for the company. After that...??? If you have collected and paid VAT, it helps.

If you appoint a Thai director it helps as well, even if you as foreigner are the only one who signs all legal documents.

But don't even think to apply for any kind of loan o/b of the company, without a Thai sponsor, you will not get it.

And don't forget, once the company is open, you are not allowed to work until your work permit is granted. Being seen in the company premises during office hours means you are working illegally. 2 million Baht, and yes as a foreigner you better have it in the company's account and not only for short term, is the minimum and is accepted. If you don't want to extent your visa in person yer by year, they do ask for paid in of 5 million.

[Richard Hall]

Since obtaining my retirement visa, I have reported every 90 days. However, an American friend never reports and has never received a reprimand or fine. I don't understand.

Hallo Jayenram,

Stick to the hassle of reporting every 90 days.

If not there will be no trouble, no fine or anything to the very moment your passport gets checks by police just by accident or because you may have done a minor offence. Assuming that particular police officer may not like you or foreigners in general and therefore loves to give you a hard time. He is going to check whether your visa is valid, whether there is a landing card stapled in your passport and possibly whether their is evidence for your regular 90 day reporting. Obviously, this is the moment your friend may regret missing out on the rules while you get the answer to your question.

People tend to broast with their wrong doings and how long they have been doing this already without being caught but will most likely fall silent when the "men in brown" show up.

[Richard Hall]

Richard, I see from your post that you have set up your own company on Thailand.

If it;s not too much trouble, please tell mr about how you did this. Did you have to have 2 million baht to set up like this website says you do?

If this is true, does the 2 million baht rule apply to Thai nationals too?

Thanks.

Hi Shippo,

First of all the question is whether you want a foreigner (for example yourself as the Managing Director) to work in your company and apply for a work permit.

Richard,

very clear and nice explanation. Small thing, you need 7 Thai-employees for each foreigner to be employed. When applying for the company licences you can start with paying in 1 million Baht, once you apply for a work permit, this must be increased to 2 million. Annual extension of visa and subsequently work permit takes a couple of trips to the immigration, at least once in person. You will get an extension for one month marked "under consideration come back in person on date so and so". With this you extent your WP for the same period. Usally after 2 of those extension they do give you, retroactively, i.e. from the date of the previous visa another year. Provided of course, your presented balance sheets are proper, your staff list of at least seven Thais is ok and most important your tax-receipts. Once, may be twice you can report losses and NO tax payment for the company. After that...??? If you have collected and paid VAT, it helps.

If you appoint a Thai director it helps as well, even if you as foreigner are the only one who signs all legal documents.

But don't even think to apply for any kind of loan o/b of the company, without a Thai sponsor, you will not get it.

And don't forget, once the company is open, you are not allowed to work until your work permit is granted. Being seen in the company premises during office hours means you are working illegally. 2 million Baht, and yes as a foreigner you better have it in the company's account and not only for short term, is the minimum and is accepted. If you don't want to extent your visa in person yer by year, they do ask for paid in of 5 million.

Axel,

Thanks for your addition.

Actually, 4 Thai employees seem to do the job. Mainly, because of the new insurance policy (4% each of the wage to be carried by the employee and the employer) I reduced them from 6 to 4 this year and still got my visa and work permit extended by a full year.

The first year was indeed hard because the work permit and visa was only granted for 3 month twice. The third extension was for 6 months and the fourth eventually for a full year. Since then always extensions for 1 year.

Yes, your accounting and tax payments must be proper and on time. VAT has to be paid monthly by the 5th of the following month at the latest and even if you have not sold anything it is advisable to pay VAT with having your next visa and work permit extensions in mind.

Well, a Thai Director would surely be good but this certainly means also extra expenditures that you may better invest into promotional activities particularly if that director has not real function and benefit to your company. Having heaps of money makes things easy but if you work on a limited budget any Baht spent should be thought over twice.

Absolutely agree, don't work without a valid permit particularly not in public.

When going through the process of extending your work permit and the little blue book is with the Labor Department during this time they issue you a receipt indicating that your are allowed to work during the decision period. Make sure you always have your work permit or that receipt respectively handy at your place of work.

Last but not least a good and reliable Thai friend with the relevant connections is  as valuable as gold. Getting everything done absolutely by yourself as a foreigner without such a back-up may be impossible. The Thai trouble shooter usually patches the final gaps and cracks sometimes just by a simple telephone call indicating that you are a personal friend that can be trusted.

[lopburi3]

I don't know how new this is - but:

There is now a notice in Room 401

giving details of how the 90 day

Residence reporting can now be done

by Registered Mail using the necessary form.

This has always been the case if you live outside of Bangkok.  They have not accepted mail for those living here AFAIK.

[Roger13]

Since obtaining my retirement visa, I have reported every 90 days. However, an American friend never reports and has never received a reprimand or fine. I don't understand.

Hi Jayenram,

Presumably you are aware that the

90 day reporting is only necassary

if you have actually been IN the Kingdom

for 90 days since your last arrival.

Maybe your friend travels out of the Country regularly?

In any case I agree with all that Richard Hall says.

Roger

[huski]

Since obtaining my retirement visa, I have reported every 90 days. However, an American friend never reports and has never received a reprimand or fine. I don't understand.

If your friend leaves Thailand within 90 days each time then the reporting his address isn't necessary. If he is not and has been staying for years then immigration could ream him on the way out of the country when he does finally leave.

My experience at BKK Immigration is, they start by handing you a piece of paper saying its 5000 baht and up to 200 baht a day fine but will tell you its only 2000 baht. In Bangkok, you leave room 401 and go to another building to pay and will then only have to cough up 2000 baht. There you will receive a stamp in your passport showing the fine paid. Then its back to room 401 to report your address and get part of the form stapled to the last page of your passport.

[BKKstan]

I just renewed my 1 yr. visa Aug 21rst.My 90 days was marked to report on Aug.24th,I forgot and reported on Aug.27th.There was no conversation at all.Gave me a new slip to report on Nov.24th.

Best Regards,Stan

[Roger13]

Stan,

In Room 401 in Suan Phlu

I saw a Notice - just last week -

that 7 days of grace both before & after

the 90 days Residence reporting date is allowed.

Roger

[jayenram]

Since obtaining my retirement visa, I have reported every 90 days. However, an American friend never reports and has never received a reprimand or fine. I don't understand.

Hi Jayenram,

Presumably you are aware that the

90 day reporting is only necassary

if you have actually been IN the Kingdom

for 90 days since your last arrival.

Maybe your friend travels out of the Country regularly?

In any case I agree with all that Richard Hall says.

Roger

I agree wholeheartedly with Richard that keeping within the regulations is the best way, particularly as my local immigration office is only 50 km away.

BTW, my friend does not leave the country at all during the year.

C'est la vie!