Dual Nationality

[7by7]

I think the problem here was the lack of an exit stamp in her Thai passport confused the immigration people at Phuket and not being sure what to do, and unwilling to lose face, they took the easy (to them) way out. Perhaps those in a similar situation should take their old passport, with the exit stamp in, as well; just in case.

Your wife's experience does highlight one very important point. If a Thai dual national uses their other (non Thai) passport to enter Thailand then they are regarded as a foreigner. Not just for immigration purposes, but for everything.

It is sensible, IMHO, for them to use their Thai passport to enter and leave Thailand every time, even if only staying a couple of days, and there is no legal reason why they cannot.

[samran]

I will get the more complete version of this story when my wife comes back to Aus but for those of you who think that you can definately use 2 passports maybe you should think again, it may not be the case.

Roy

An unfortunate tale, but not to be unexpected from time to time. Your wife got a jobsworth who, like the previous poster said, couldn't lose face and insisted she be stamped in on her Australian passport. I'll leave it to your wifes discretion in that situation - and I'm sure she judged it correctly - but if it was me (and it has been) I wouldn't have budged until I was stamped in on my Thai passport. As a Thai citizen I have an unfettered right to enter Thailand and stay as long as I please, and I would have reminded the immigration officer of that. I mean, what are they going to do, deport me? You can't deport your own citizens!

In anycase, my entire family (except my father) are dual Thai/Australian citizens.

I first entered Thailand on a 'naked' Thai PP issued in Canberra back in the early 1990's. "Where is your departure stamp?" I was asked. "In my Australian passport" I replied. Led off to the head honcho, who tried to insist on me being stamped in on my Aust PP, I didn't move (politely) until he relented.

My mother, 40 years in OZ first entered Thailand on a virgin Thai PP in 2002 or so. She plonked down both her OZ and Thai passports to immigration at BKK international and asked which one she should use, the took her Thai PP and stamped her in, no worries.

My sister first entered Thailand this past Chrismas for the first time in 25 years on her Thai passport which was issued in London a couple of weeks before (she currenlt lives there). Again, no problems entering on a 'clean' passport.

Personal stories aside, lets look at the law. Thai nationality law was amended in 1993 and updated in 2008. The law is very clear. A Thai national who takes their spouses nationality is still considered a Thai national unless they decided to apply to relinquish their Thai nationality, and that applicaton is approved my the minister of interior himself, and then published in the royal gazette.

Given (it appears) your wife hasn't done this she should insist in future that her rights are respected, or perhaps come though BKK where the immigration officers know their stuff. Coming back with her last expired passport which she departed Thailand on should help also in case she unfrotunately runs into a jobsworth again

[coventry]

Just a bit of an update on the 2 passport question.

My wife wanted to go on a holiday to visit her family in Nakhon Si Thammarat so I bought her a return ticket from Sydney to Phuket flying direct with Jetstar.

Normally when we go to Thailand for holidays she uses her Australian passport ( she has dual nationality - Thai and Australian) as we are only there for 2 or 3 weeks at a time so the 30 day entry stamp is sufficient for us.

This time however she will be away for 35 days so I told her to use both passports to avoid having to apply for visas.

We noticed that her current Thai passport was about to expire so she applied at the Royal Thai Consulate in Sydney for a new one. When we went back to pick up the new passport my wife asked the Thai staff about using both her Thai and Australian passport for travel. She was told that they could not advise her on that. She mentioned that I had read on forums that it was very common for people to travel on 2 passports but again she was told that they could not advise her and that it was up to her what she chose to do.

My wife flew back to Thailand yesterday. At Sydney airport we showed both passports at check-in and there was no dramas.

I have just rung up my wife this morning to see if she got home alright and she told me that at Phuket Airport they would not let her use her Thai passport as it had no stamp in it saying that she had been in Australia.She explained that she was both a Thai and Aus citizen and that her original passport that had a visa to enter Australia was 20 years ago and had long since expired. She told them that this new passport was issued from the Consulate in Sydney.

She was taken to see one of the head officers at Immigration who happened to come from Nakhon also, and as pleasant as he was, said that she would have to use her Australian passport and she would need to apply for an extension in Nakhon town to cover the extra days.

I will get the more complete version of this story when my wife comes back to Aus but for those of you who think that you can definately use 2 passports maybe you should think again, it may not be the case.

Roy

Perhaps for once, the Immigration officer was educated and fully understood dual nationality laws in Thailand. Perhaps for once we have a guy who is educated and never bought his position. Or just maybe, as Bob Dylan said "things they are a changing" ? I think it wrong that 'Samran' assumes "your wife got a jobsworth".

[7by7]

Perhaps for once, the Immigration officer was educated and fully understood dual nationality laws in Thailand. Perhaps for once we have a guy who is educated and never bought his position. Or just maybe, as Bob Dylan said "things they are a changing" ? I think it wrong that 'Samran' assumes "your wife got a jobsworth".

As Samran says, the law is quite clear and the lack of an exit stamp in a Thai passport is no reason to deny a Thai citizen their right to enter Thailand.

The immigration officer was wrong.

Two years ago my daughter entered Thailand using her shiny new Thai passport, issued by the RTE in Kensington, with no Thai exit stamp in it. No problem.

(Although the IO was unhappy because she had completed her arrival card in English and made her do another one in Thai!)

[Mossfinn]

Perhaps for once, the Immigration officer was educated and fully understood dual nationality laws in Thailand. Perhaps for once we have a guy who is educated and never bought his position. Or just maybe, as Bob Dylan said "things they are a changing" ? I think it wrong that 'Samran' assumes "your wife got a jobsworth".

Coventry,

I would be interested in some clarification to your point of view.

Moss

[mijan24]

Perhaps for once, the Immigration officer was educated and fully understood dual nationality laws in Thailand. Perhaps for once we have a guy who is educated and never bought his position. Or just maybe, as Bob Dylan said "things they are a changing" ? I think it wrong that 'Samran' assumes "your wife got a jobsworth".

Coventry,

I would be interested in some clarification to your point of view.

Moss

Moss I have to join your line as Coventry's post does not make sense, to me that is.

[KhaoNiaw]

Coventry,

I would be interested in some clarification to your point of view.

Look through former threads on this topic, Coventry always contributes. I'm not sure that he's given a real definitive basis for his stand but he doesn't accept any of the evidence given to the contrary.

[samran]

Coventry,

I would be interested in some clarification to your point of view.

Look through former threads on this topic, Coventry always contributes. I'm not sure that he's given a real definitive basis for his stand but he doesn't accept any of the evidence given to the contrary.

when it comes to this particular topic, coventry is a pure troll. Previous threads have thrown the law, and explainations from the ministry of foregin affairs at him and he he just goes quiet. He points to fictional evidence which does not exist, and the man can't even read Thai <deleted>.

He once had a go at me for when I countered his claim that Thai passport applications ask you if you have dual nationality. They don't, and when I showed a real life example of a Thai passport form, in his Thai illiteracy he claimed what I showed him was a 'permission to travel form' and went off on anther tangent.

The guy is a troll, loser, and is simply out to bait. Ignore him.

[Roy Jing]

I am so p#ssed off at the way my wife was treated by Immigration that I had to ring her again and get more details of exactly what happened to her on her arrival at Phuket.

She said that she explained to the head Honcho on duty, precisely what her circumstances were in regards to her having a new Thai passport and an Australian passport but she was told that you cannot have 2 passports and that she would have to choose between being Thai or Australian.

She chose Australian, so she had to refill out her arrival form in English instead of Thai.

Needless to say she is as angry as I am about the situation but there is nothing that you can do about it except grin and bare it as TIT...

[KhaoNiaw]

One of the links in a previous thread was this one, which actually came from a Pol Capt. at Phuket Immigration:

http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers...ails.asp?id=935

[samran]

I am so p#ssed off at the way my wife was treated by Immigration that I had to ring her again and get more details of exactly what happened to her on her arrival at Phuket.

She said that she explained to the head Honcho on duty, precisely what her circumstances were in regards to her having a new Thai passport and an Australian passport but she was told that you cannot have 2 passports and that she would have to choose between being Thai or Australian.

She chose Australian, so she had to refill out her arrival form in English instead of Thai.

Needless to say she is as angry as I am about the situation but there is nothing that you can do about it except grin and bare it as TIT...

Although the peanut of a head honcho hasn't let her be stamped in on her Thai passport, realise that she hasn't by any means 'made a choice'. This can be only done formally and driectly to the Minister of Interior.

Nationality Act (2008)

“Section 13. A man or woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality of the spouse according to his nationality law shall, if he or she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make a declaration of his or her intention before an official according to the form and in the manner prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.”

Not that this changes things much for her present situation. May be worthwhile when she comes back next time to have her old thai PP with her. I once re-entered Thailand on a new Thai passport (issued in Canberra in about 2003), and was asked to see my old one. They stamped me in on my old one which had expired 2 years before, and was told to use the new one when I left the next time.

Edited April 5, 2009 by samran

[Roy Jing]

Thanks Samran and KhaoNiaw,

The information in your posts are much appreciated.

Roy

[Mossfinn]

Coventry,

I would be interested in some clarification to your point of view.

Look through former threads on this topic, Coventry always contributes. I'm not sure that he's given a real definitive basis for his stand but he doesn't accept any of the evidence given to the contrary.

I know KN, which is why I asked him for clarification, hopefully he would make an attempt and get completely mixed up in the response, whilst being cut to pieces as he went.

Unfortunately, he has been shown to be wrong many times before but still comes back for more, in the hope of confusing somebody new, in a way you have gotta admire his tenacity in the face of reason, but then again maybe not!!

Moss

[donx]

This week I will be taking my entire family to the Thai consolate in Washington DC to get new Thai e-passports. The consulate website for Washington DC has most of their instructions on applying for new e-passports in Thai, so I did a google search of "Thai e-passport" and one of the websites I found is The Chicago Consulate.

The first question in the "Frequently Asked Questions" section I am quoting below:

"1. Can I apply for a Thai e-Passport if I am already holding a foreign passport?

Yes, if you can prove you are a Thai national, you may apply for a Thai e-Passport"

Therefore, they obviously know and allow dual nationality.

I agree with all those that say use the Thai passport to enter and leave Thailand. Use the other passport everywhere else. This is what my family has been doing every time we visit Thailand. I know of someone that went back last year with her son. Her son did not have a Thai passport. She showed them her US passport and they limited her stay to 30 days. She had to get an visa extension to stay for her scheduled 45 day vacation.

I will take the advice from samran to bring all the old Thai passports with us since they were used to leave Thailand 2 years ago.

[samran]

Coventry,

I would be interested in some clarification to your point of view.

Look through former threads on this topic, Coventry always contributes. I'm not sure that he's given a real definitive basis for his stand but he doesn't accept any of the evidence given to the contrary.

I know KN, which is why I asked him for clarification, hopefully he would make an attempt and get completely mixed up in the response, whilst being cut to pieces as he went.

Unfortunately, he has been shown to be wrong many times before but still comes back for more, in the hope of confusing somebody new, in a way you have gotta admire his tenacity in the face of reason, but then again maybe not!!

Moss

he'll skulk off to some other thread where he can confuse some other soul, before someone points out his lack of credibilty.

Anyway, donx, here is the application form for a Thai passport, if applying in Washington DC.

http://www.thaiembdc.org/form/2a001.pdf

Coventry in another thread thought this was a 'permission to travel form'. 55555.

One page, not very long. The information page states that they pull all of the information from the central house registry database in Thailand. Hence its shortness compared with most other countries passport application forms.

Good luck, and safe travels to Thailand. In the unlikely event of meeting another immigration officer that doesn't know what to do, politely ask to see the head honch and don't budge until you get stamped in. Odds are though, it won't happen.

Edited April 6, 2009 by samran

[thaihome]

I..., so she had to refill out her arrival form in English instead of Thai.

...

My wife has departed and entered probably a hundred times (on Thai passport) in the last eight years and the arrival/depature form has always been in English.

TH

[Bird on the Wire]

Even my limited Thai language skills allow me to identify

หนังสือเดินทาง

as meaning "passport".

I'd never encountered the following word

อิเล็กทรอนิกส์

until I sat back and realised that it's a sound-for-sound transliteration from English of "electronic(s)".

[BKK2509]

I am so p#ssed off at the way my wife was treated by Immigration that I had to ring her again and get more details of exactly what happened to her on her arrival at Phuket.

She said that she explained to the head Honcho on duty, precisely what her circumstances were in regards to her having a new Thai passport and an Australian passport but she was told that you cannot have 2 passports and that she would have to choose between being Thai or Australian.

She chose Australian, so she had to refill out her arrival form in English instead of Thai.

Needless to say she is as angry as I am about the situation but there is nothing that you can do about it except grin and bare it as TIT...

I know how you feel. Honestly, I really hate all Thai immigration officers. I don't like their attitudes. They are authority maniac and try to show off that who has got the power, pigs. I hate them. I'm Thai , by the way. I got 2 pps (Bri / Thai) I have no problem getting in and out. Sometimes they just want to be asshol_e, that's all. There is nothing wrong with your wife holding 2 pps. Some of them got the job (immigration officer) by bribing and don't even have knowledge about immigration law. Typical Thai!!

[luurts]

ok guys now this one i don't know if anyone is gonna be able to give me the answer for but here is to hoping.

right, i currently hold a British and Dutch passport, (i am a dual national), this is where my problem begins,having travelled a lot on british passport and never on my dutch one, my british ones is full as of 24/04/09. my british passport has a 1 year thai tourist visa, instead of having to buy a new british passport right away (10,000B a bit pricey) i am looking to start using my dutch passport but dont know how i can go about using my visa from my british passport or having it transferred to my dutch passport. Can i go to a thai immigration office an ask them to transfer the visa to my other passport or just by presenting both passports can i use the visa for the other passport,so confused, hope someone can help.

thanks in advance guys,

michael

[ubonjoe]

ok guys now this one i don't know if anyone is gonna be able to give me the answer for but here is to hoping.

right, i currently hold a British and Dutch passport, (i am a dual national), this is where my problem begins,having travelled a lot on british passport and never on my dutch one, my british ones is full as of 24/04/09. my british passport has a 1 year thai tourist visa, instead of having to buy a new british passport right away (10,000B a bit pricey) i am looking to start using my dutch passport but dont know how i can go about using my visa from my british passport or having it transferred to my dutch passport. Can i go to a thai immigration office an ask them to transfer the visa to my other passport or just by presenting both passports can i use the visa for the other passport,so confused, hope someone can help.

thanks in advance guys,

michael

Never heard of a 1 year tourist visa. Do you mean a non immigrant visa of some kind.

Immigration will not transfer visas over. Only permit to stay, entriy stamps and etc.

I know that you can use an expired or cancelled passport to enter if you still have a valid visa in it, Just show both passports.

I think you could do it if you are fllying in and out but at a border crossing it might be a problem.

I guess all you really can do is try doing it.

[momosan]

It's pretty clear what is possible and what's not from the pooled experience of all the people here. If you enter Thailand with a valid Thai passport they cannot refuse you entry, period. If in the course of trying to refuse in any way all you have to do is be firm but polite and not give an inch and you'll get your way... eventually but surely.

[ssimpson]

But does presenting the Thai passport (with maiden name) and a boarding pass with the married name not cause an issue with immigration?

Yes they can, and many do.

When the memsahib and I travel to Thailand, she shows her British passport at UK checkin, because that's the name on the ticket. In Bangkok she produces her Thai passport to Immigration (which carries her maiden name). On leaving Bangkok she again shows her Brit passport at checkin, and the Thai passport to Immigration. On arrival in London she shows Brit passport (or we dodge the queue and go through the IRIS barrier).

For those who have changed their Thai passport to the married name, the only real difference would be that it wouldn't matter which passport you show to check in in London. Once a person obtains British citizenship and a British passport, they no longer qualify for an ILR stamp when they have to get a new Thai passport, so they would have to show the Brit passport at Bangkok checkin to prove their right to enter the UK.