Fire At Santika Night Club

[rjk]

since i've been in thailand i have had a lot of trouble marrying the loss of face / abdication of personal responsibility thing to the buddhist mentality.

It's not that difficult really , utter hypocrisy is not limited to westerners.

If it is indeed true that the club operated unlicensed then it is just another example of this hypocrisy.

It doesn't matter what values anyone claims to hold, when corruption, political interests and deprivation of human rights is involved then everyone is in danger everywhere.

[sriracha john]

It seems as if the political trolls have ceased for the morning, so here's a few assorted new bits...

Police were waiting for Santika pub owner Wisuk Setsawat to show up for questioning.

Pol Maj-Gen Chokechai said he did not know when Mr Wisuk would turn up and added that the pub owner suffered a respiratory problem in the fire.

Mr Wisuk was hospitalised but police said his whereabouts were not immediately known.

I see a number of sources have found the club owners picture from that Honda racing event and it's being plastered on all the front pages now. He won't be able to stay hidden for much longer.

วิสุข เสร็จสวัสดิ์

- Matichon newspaper

Edited January 3, 2009 by sriracha john

[Johpa]

If it was, then Patpong, Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy would have been shut down years ago.

I'm just amazed that the ol' Patpong Rd area has survived all these decades without a major fire.

[Graphics]

See this : http://www.manager.co.th/Crime/ViewNews.as...D=9510000153857

I can see there was a Cross and a coffin inside the club Santika. Also, it appears to look like a church.

Very strange... I think the owner was Budhist also, not Christian or Catholic..

[HorseDoctor]

Whatever the cause of the fire, I think it's a given that other fire safety regualtions were ignored and the blatant disregard of these regulations is about as political as it gets.

Sorry but I think this is the one that will finally expose Thailand's true colours to the world - no matter how much censoring is pushed on us.

[john b good]

I feel some people are missing a big point here. we have posters talking about making things right to save face, to give Thailand a good face to others, how about Thailand does the right thing simply because that's the right thing to do, not just to save face or restore face, or for political brownie points. How about Thais start caring about others and the fact that peoples actions normally affect other people. I lose count of the times that I am driving and have to avoid a certain accident because some blurt in a pick up wants to save 5 seconds or because some bus driver can not be bothered to be in the right lane, or because some idiot on a bike expects me to avoid their poor manoeuvre. Thais have a very selfish attitude on the whole and very rarely think about consequence. its as though the part of the brain that thinks about the dangers is missing.

we hear this save face thing all the time whilst in all honesty the poor level of safety in this country is is not only to do with corruption but also to do with the average Thais mentality.

Forget face Thailand, just do the right thing. stop accepting corruption, stop being selfish and stop accepting excuses from people who constantly fail you.

sadly nothing will change (lets hope nobody no tries to lower themselves with the 'don't live here then' mantra)

I could not have said it more accurately in a million years.

It's TiT and nothing is gonna change in my, my children's nor my grand children's lifetime.

I was telling my GF that it was absolutely criminal the way that Thai's exploit Thais (not to mention the way that Thai's exploit farang) and her answer was 'I' did not do it. My answer to that is only when the Thai in the streets stands up against the money politics, the corruption, the bent police "and so on infinitum" will anything change.

It was only a few years ago when after a major conflagration that the BMA said that they were going to toughen up on places of entertainment (cinemas and the like) One cinema owner said "mai pen rai" I will pay the daily fine of 50 Baht, stay open and ignore the directive to improve safety standards.

I don't see anything changing as a result of this fire.

To "Dissolution" many are thinking of you (if that helps in any way)

Edited January 3, 2009 by john b good

[taxexile]

Bangkok nightclub inferno toll rises to 61

Posted: 03 January 2009 1352 hrs

BANGKOK: The death toll from a fire at a Bangkok nightclub New Year party has risen to 61 after two more people died in hospital overnight, a senior health official said Saturday.

The toll from the blaze at the Santika nightclub could rise further as many of the injured remain in critical condition, said Chatree Charoencheewakul, secretary of the National Institute of Emergency Medical Systems.

"It's very sad. The death toll is now at 61 after a man and woman died last night," Chatree told AFP.

“Of the 89 who are still hospitalised, 26 remain in the ICU (intensive care unit). Based on their medical records, I think up to five cases are very serious and I am really concerned for them," he said.

Police are still investigating the cause of the blaze at the packed club in the city's popular Ekkamai district, which broke out just after midnight on Thursday after revellers counted down the New Year.

Early reports by police suggested it might have been caused by a pyrotechnics display on stage but officials said they were also investigating the wiring in the club and sparklers handed out to guests.

- AFP/yb

[withnail]

Dissolution my thoughts are with you. I sincerely hope that you find the rest of your party safe.

With regards to the issue of blame, I find it interesting that everyone wants to pin the whole thing on someONE i.e. the club owner. Initially, my thoughts were the same, but I have been thinking about it and would like everyone else to do the same. There are some posts here that remind me more of the type usually read in the peado/drug smuggler threads.

My question is this. What really does the licencing have to do with fire safety. I'd like to see someone here with the money try and get a nightclub running with the proper licence. The fact of the matter is the police don't want people running legal businesses they want you to give them money.

The neglegence regarding fire safety sickens me, but again, imagine you were running a club and everytime you had construction done and pyrotechnics brought in you insisted they met with safety regulations. Do you really think anyone would know what you were even talking about. Sure, there is no excuse for unlit, locked or non existent fire exits, but again, what exactly are the regulations?

I was under the impression that anywhere else in the world government fire safety officers with a knowledge of the regulations and potential risks would be the ones to check that buildings were up to standard before an event like this would be allowed to take place.

The owner, if building a club in another country, would have no choice but to have his club meet safety standards and probably would have little need to act personally on any of them because so would the builders, pyro technicians and anyone else involved.

IMO what has allowed this horrific tradgedy to take place is the culture that he and eveyone else here is living in. One of corruption and 'mai pen rai' attitudes towards every aspect of life and business.

If people have cut corners or ignored advice/demands from officials then they should be held responsible, but quite frankly they shouldn't have been allowed to in the first place. Can everyone here honestly say that if they were running a business or building property they would personally be able to ensure that everything met the correct standards?

Edited January 3, 2009 by withnail

[Samuian]

..............edited

I was telling my GF that it was absolutely criminal the way that Thai's exploit Thais (not to mention the way that Thai's exploit farang) and her answer was 'I' did not do it. ....edited..

It's human manure/human nature, but the thing is that it seems that a large majority condons it instead of frowning about it - yes it's the wrong "mai mee panha" attitude towards everything, it's hurting society at large, a few prosper...and get away with anything, even mass men slaughter!

horrible... and then one finds the same Hypocrites merit making in Buddhist temples.... i'ts sickening hypocritical..

[taxexile]

IMO what has allowed this horrific tradgedy to take place is the culture that he and eveyone else here is living in. One of corruption and 'mai pen rai' attitudes towards every aspect of life and business.

With regards to the issue of blame, I find it interesting that everyone wants to pin the whole thing on someONE i.e. the club owner. Initially, my thoughts were the same, but I have been thinking about it and would like everyone else to do the same.

i think that that is why someone or some organisation should be held accountable for this tragedy and punished for , either their breaking of the regulations or allowing the regulations to be broken , or just for their lack of responsibility and moral accountability over this.

when people are punished publicly , named and shamed and hung out to dry , then others who are running similar dangerous and/or illegal operations that put profit and corruption way in front of the basic safety of their customers , whether they be night clubs , the police , hotels or bus services etc. will take notice of it and slowly but surely will start to act in a more responsible manner and improve their operations for the benefit of all society.

its the knowledge that no one will be punished , no one will be blamed , facts will get blurred and obfuscated during many years of court cases and appeals and in the end they will walk free , with their honour intact , that allows these things to happen.

start making examples of offenders and see how things will change.

a class action by the injured and the relatives of the dead against the thong lor police might a good place to start.

........ but of course it just wont happen here.

Edited January 3, 2009 by taxexile

[withnail]

I agree with that taxexile, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should be the owner. Not that I'm saying he's innocent I'm just saying there's probably more to it than that.

But as you say, it probably won't ammount to anything anyway.

Good point added after your edit about the police.

Edited January 3, 2009 by withnail

[BkkAnimalover]

It seems as if the political trolls have ceased for the morning, so here's a few assorted new bits...

Police were waiting for Santika pub owner Wisuk Setsawat to show up for questioning.

Pol Maj-Gen Chokechai said he did not know when Mr Wisuk would turn up and added that the pub owner suffered a respiratory problem in the fire.

Mr Wisuk was hospitalised but police said his whereabouts were not immediately known.

I see a number of sources have found the club owners picture from that Honda racing event and it's being plastered on all the front pages now. He won't be able to stay hidden for much longer.

วิสุข เสร็จสวัสดิ์

- Matichon newspaper

C'mon do You really believe that this Guy is the real "Owner" this Guy is the "Director" of Santika and probably a minor Shareholder . Nobody will never know who they are the real Owners . TIT and whe are "guest" so what we ca do is just T.O.L. . Take or Leave

[Basil B]

Whatever the cause of the fire, I think it's a given that other fire safety regualtions were ignored and the blatant disregard of these regulations is about as political as it gets.

Sorry but I think this is the one that will finally expose Thailand's true colours to the world - no matter how much censoring is pushed on us.

Sorry but I think you are talking total Bull Sh!t, it is a not a political issue, this problem of corruption and taking bribes to look away is older than any political party, what Thailand needs now is a leader with enough gut's to do something about it.

[Crushdepth]

From the Bangkok Post:

Pol Maj-Gen Chokechai Deeprasert, commander of the Metropolitan Police Bureau's Division 5, said Santika was not insured. Its insurance coverage expired four months ago and was not extended as the pub lease contract was about to expire...

...Deputy national police chief Pol Gen Jongrak Chuthanont said the owner of Santika on Ekamai road applied for an operating licence in 2004, but the request was rejected because construction was unfinished at the time...

...Police were waiting for Santika pub owner Wisuk Setsawat to show up for questioning...

The usual pathetic state of affairs. I'm sure he's rushing down to the police station right now to turn himself in. Probably stuck in the traffic?

[kiakaha]

the Emergency Services in Thailand are not exactly benevolent, and get their own form of compensation by stealing from the victims. A Sad but thrue fact.

got anything to back up that statement ?

FACT : 2 of my friends are still alive DIRECTLY due to the heroics of the thai fire department.

[sibeymai]

I agree with that taxexile, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should be the owner. Not that I'm saying he's innocent I'm just saying there's probably more to it than that.

But as you say, it probably won't ammount to anything anyway.

Good point added after your edit about the police.

If the owner is not responsible, then who is ?

It's the owner's business. It's the owner who employs and pays the staff. It's the owner who buys a new Benz from the profits.

the owner is not the only person responsible in this case. Thong Lo police are responsible along with the BMA.

ALL OF THEM NEED OT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE WITH LONG PRISON TERMS AND LARGE COMPENSATION PAYMENTS TO THE VICTIMS AND JAIL TERMS COMENSURATE WITH THE SUFFERING THE VICTIMS WILL ENDURE FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

Edited January 3, 2009 by sibeymai

[Jingthing]

In a totalitarian state like China the owners would no doubt face the death penalty. Is that really helpful? Thailand has a new PM. Maybe he will see both the real benefit and political benefit in beefing up first safety standards and its overall relation to fighting corruption.

[Guest Reimar]

2 more succumb to Santika Pub fire injuries, death toll rises to 61

One more woman and one more man Friday night succumbed to sustained severe burns caused by the Santika Pub fire, raising to 61 the death toll of the tragic accident.

The two died at the Bangkok Hospital.

Hospital officials said Wiphawan Thanompanyarak, 30, died at 9 pm and her body was sent to the Forensic Medicine Institute of the Police Hospital. And her relatives has already reclaimed the body from the institute.

Yutthana Sinpaibuulsilp, 26, died at the Bangkok Hospital at 10:54 pm. The hospital was contacting the relatives to reclaim the body.

The Nation

[bino]

The Police Chief added the incident was not likely arson, as the club's insurance had expired in mid 2008.

-- TNA/MCOT 2009-01-02

I sincerely hope that arson is not the case, that no person would intentionally set the place on fire whilst it is packed full of people on New Year's Eve. However, psychopaths do exist, and it could happen.

There could be many other motives for torching the place- doesn't need to be insurance / profit.

How about revenge? Considering that the lease was expiring and the club closing after that night, I can imagine some scenarios.

We all know that it is a classic play in Thailand for landlords to deny renewing a lease when they see a successful business operating on their properties- with the intention of taking it over. What if the outgoing tenant who built the business figured that burning the place down and causing a scandal would be a sure-fire (pun intended) way to deny him that ability?

The "house" handing out sparklers.... creating "plausible denability" ?

Maybe the arsonist didn't expect it to get so far out of hand and people to be killed?

About insurance, whoever was operating the business on the premises would need liability insurance et al, but wouldn't the fire insurance on the building / structure be the responsibility of the owner? If the building owner let it lapse (and the tenant knew it), it might be another " F U " from the outgoing tenant.

[simon43]

Can one write to the PM? Does he have a real email address or comment form on his webpage? Does he even read emails?

It would be good if people told him directly what they think of this horrific incident and demand that he personally ensures that those responsible are brought before the courts.

(Sorry, what was I thinking?? - Of course we all know that no-one will be punished, no safety standards enforced in clubs etc... sorry, I was obviously having a 'Western' moment)

Simon

[brahmburgers]

I don't hold much hope for a transparent investigation. The Thong Lo police are not likely to make much progress investigating themselves.....

Wasn't it in Thong Lo (or certainly near there) that an entire city block of small-scale merchants were wiped out of business a few years ago - their little stalls, full with merchandise, smashed to bits by a hired mob(?) If memory serves, the local man who hired the mob was a massage parlor tycoon, and got off unscathed. The main reason he wasn't prosecuted was he publicly threatened to name names of corrupt city officials / policemen (affiliated with Thong Lo). Not only that, the mob leader went on to become a popular local politician - though it's doubtful he got votes from the merchants whose businesses he destroyed. I'm relieved I don't live in the Thong Lo area.

[Maxi101]

... all this blaming and wannaknow better starts all over again.

We all know it is like it is.

Thailand is Thailand and where are many people come together xxx happens.

Thats just life.

maxi

[tigerboy]

The Police Chief added the incident was not likely arson, as the club's insurance had expired in mid 2008.

-- TNA/MCOT 2009-01-02

I sincerely hope that arson is not the case, that no person would intentionally set the place on fire whilst it is packed full of people on New Year's Eve. However, psychopaths do exist, and it could happen.

There could be many other motives for torching the place- doesn't need to be insurance / profit.

How about revenge? Considering that the lease was expiring and the club closing after that night, I can imagine some scenarios.

We all know that it is a classic play in Thailand for landlords to deny renewing a lease when they see a successful business operating on their properties- with the intention of taking it over. What if the outgoing tenant who built the business figured that burning the place down and causing a scandal would be a sure-fire (pun intended) way to deny him that ability?

The "house" handing out sparklers.... creating "plausible denability" ?

Maybe the arsonist didn't expect it to get so far out of hand and people to be killed?

About insurance, whoever was operating the business on the premises would need liability insurance et al, but wouldn't the fire insurance on the building / structure be the responsibility of the owner? If the building owner let it lapse (and the tenant knew it), it might be another " F U " from the outgoing tenant.

This is my favorite conspiracy theory right now.

I wonder if the police have charges such as "accidental arson" or perhaps "nearly arson", in addition to "not likely arson"?

Want to bet that this lot will not be built on for quite a long time? Surely not another club. My guess is perhaps another park as we now have near Sukumvit Soi 10.

Sorry to be so negative, it just seems to be the reality of the human condition here.

[Insight]

Regardless of how much we consider the owners accountable, I hope they've got the decency to show their faces to the police and not "flee the scene" (as we're so used to hearing).

When I first heard the news about a fire in a nightclub in BKK, my first thoughts were of somewhere in Patpong or a run-down karaoke/massage joint in the backstreets. Came as a bit of a shock it was a much more (supposedly) modern venue.

May the victims of this horrible tragedy RIP.

[Old Man River]

I agree with you and it sucks to start the NYR off like this. I used to frequent this club in the past and they do cram the place unitl it's packed as every other venue, bus, etc. This goes for other clubs on Silom Soi 4 etc..

My heart goes out to the people and their families.

As nationalistic as the people are here, they really don't seem to care about safety, the environment, education, and the list goes on!

It makes me sick to see such negligence.

RIP

This is sad news for Thailand.

Speaking of being nationalistic and all....

What do you think the reason was for the Police to initially state the many of the victims were foreigners?

This one is easy and it has absolutely nothing to do with nationalism.

There is no question that the police, on scene and talking to firemen, knew most of the victims were Thai. However, with the media swarming, they needed to buy time from locals to get a better understanding of how this club, licensed as a food establishment that was required to close by midnight, was allowed to continue to operate as a nightclub for more than 4 years. Soon after they announced that they didn't want the Santika to operate, but the administrative court issued an injunction 4 years prior that was still in force that they had to obey. The comment on foreigners has not been made again.

Right now, the Adm. Court's explanation is awaited and it should be made within a day or two.

There is a lot of unanswered questions, many to do with culpability for this tragedy and many to do with how this club was allowed to operate in the first place.

[Old Man River]

Regardless of how much we consider the owners accountable, I hope they've got the decency to show their faces to the police and not "flee the scene" (as we're so used to hearing).

When I first heard the news about a fire in a nightclub in BKK, my first thoughts were of somewhere in Patpong or a run-down karaoke/massage joint in the backstreets. Came as a bit of a shock it was a much more (supposedly) modern venue.

May the victims of this horrible tragedy RIP.

Insight, while I don't think the owners will flee the scene long term, below is a link to the picture of one of the owners (Wisut) who is #66.

http://student.nu.ac.th/mayzaa_it4/HDJCLUB/racing.asp

Please note, and this is important, neither Wisut nor any of the other owners has been shown to be culpable for this fire. In fact, Wisut was in the club at the time and was one of the injured.

[chrislarsson]

In a totalitarian state like China the owners would no doubt face the death penalty. Is that really helpful? Thailand has a new PM. Maybe he will see both the real benefit and political benefit in beefing up first safety standards and its overall relation to fighting corruption.

It's pretty funny. The very people here who keep talk about the rule of law, are the first one to judge without evidence, and are arguing for long prison terms even before any of the facts are known.

[HorseDoctor]

Whatever the cause of the fire, I think it's a given that other fire safety regualtions were ignored and the blatant disregard of these regulations is about as political as it gets.

Sorry but I think this is the one that will finally expose Thailand's true colours to the world - no matter how much censoring is pushed on us.

Sorry but I think you are talking total Bull Sh!t, it is a not a political issue, this problem of corruption and taking bribes to look away is older than any political party, what Thailand needs now is a leader with enough gut's to do something about it.

Please, you are taking my use of the word "political" too literally - corruption IS political, in fact I'd say all human interaction IS political.

Just the act of some trying to prevent our speculative analysis of blame, etc is proof of the political-ness of it .

[k1w1]

Whatever the cause of the fire, I think it's a given that other fire safety regualtions were ignored and the blatant disregard of these regulations is about as political as it gets.

Sorry but I think this is the one that will finally expose Thailand's true colours to the world - no matter how much censoring is pushed on us.

Sorry but I think you are talking total Bull Sh!t, it is a not a political issue, this problem of corruption and taking bribes to look away is older than any political party, what Thailand needs now is a leader with enough gut's to do something about it.

Please, you are taking my use of the word "political" too literally - corruption IS political, in fact I'd say all human interaction IS political.

Just the act of some trying to prevent our speculative analysis of blame, etc is proof of the political-ness of it .

Not exactly. there are plenty members here who would love to have an excuse to make narcissistic comments and rile people up and the political angle gives them the excuse.

That seems to me why they moderators are removing political statements from this thread to stop the a holes from taking this thread off topic.

However I don't think that we can seperate the politics from this event as it is clearly corruption that has made this event into the nightmare that as the club shouldn't have been open as a club in the first place let alone for 4 years. Thonglor Police have got to answer for that and as one person already pointed out the police are actually paying for all the victims medical costs. That probably also means they will be available for the lawyers and insurance companies to contact directly and will make all arangments necessary to cover the expenses incurred. Hence they are going to pay everyone whatever they are legally due.

Basically if the victims were poorer they wouldn't have to pay as much.

[kat]

... all this blaming and wannaknow better starts all over again.

We all know it is like it is.

Thailand is Thailand and where are many people come together xxx happens.

Thats just life.

maxi

mai bpen rai.