Motorcycle Accident In Nakhonsawon

[mickba]

..............What if some twit jumps from a condo & lands on your car passing by? ................

According to this judge - yes.

What common sense ? TiT

I was told very early on by GF "if big car hit small m/bike big car can pay" - if big car is driven by farang then double it.

I honestly believe they could wait at the side of the road and hurl an old m/bike at your car and you would pay.

My own case is that I drove across a level crossing, at night, indicating as I went to turn right directly the other side of it. The idiot biker boy came from behind flat out over the crossing - tried to whip round my front end as I turned - almost made it but clipped my front valance, which put him in a weave and he finally came down, but luckily on open road ahead. He sustained fairly bad cuts/graizes etc but no broken bones - at the speed he was travelling he only had to have hit a kerb or post and he probably would have been dead. I could so very easily have been in the same situation as yourself and for that I have to be grateful.

No lights, no brakes, no helmet and being in the wrong all became irrelevant as the baying Thais and police all gathered.

My insurance company guy was quite helpful at the police station but then I was left to negotiate with the family, the police having given them my phone number. The GF negotiated them down from 25k to 5k on the basis that otherwise I would pay nothing and they would be left to deal with the insurance company as I was leaving Thailand shortly. Having paid the 5k and a 500 baht fine for having an accident (?) the police returned my licence and released the m/bike and they closed the case. Fortunately I had recently obtained a Thai driving licence or that would have cost me more. I also had to pay 1500 baht for the police to photograph the damage to my car. I haven't resolved the car repair yet but it should be OK.

Although the police and the insurance guy were reasonable in my case and both spoke a little English, the first thing you need in these cases is a Thai who is very definitely on your side, intelligent and vocal. Thereafter, and obviously in your situation, you need a good lawyer and, unless you are very confident you can find one you can trust by yourself, I would concur with the advice that you contact Sebastian at Isaan Lawyers.

Yes, the Bangkok lawyer and the amount of the claim are probably tactics, but clearly the family feel confident and are going for it. I wish you the very best of luck - I'm afraid you're going to need it. Please keep us up to date and do name your insurance company.

These events make you wonder whether it's worth farang owning and driving a car in Thailand.

[GungaDin]

Normally, a biker is very aware how he would fare in an accident with a car.

NOT Thai bikers. They have a death wish and no commonsense.

Do you live in Thailand?

[imaneggspurt]

Normally, a biker is very aware how he would fare in an accident with a car.

NOT Thai bikers. They have a death wish and no commonsense.

Do you live in Thailand?

I honestly had a thai on a bicycle AIM at me when i was riding my motorcycle,my friends witnessed this and when i asked them " what the hel_l was that all about " they replied, he was trying to hit you so he would get money,i said, what about if i had killed him, their reply, his family would be paid out, he couldnt lose !

[thaimate]

and we wonder why so many flee the scene of an accident.

[jimmybkk]

I remember about 7 years ago reading in the BKK Post how a Thai pop star had killed a pedestrian. It was his fault and if I recall correctly he had to pay the family 20,000 Baht, officially. Could have been a lot more in a side deal of course but at the time, being quite new to Thailand I was staggered that this was the official value placed on human life, especially as the guy was famous and therefore probably wealthy.

Sorry to hear about your situation. I've come close to something similar a couple of times. It could happen to any of us who drive here. Scary.

[mickba]

...................Try hard to establish the facts

like i) he was in the wrong lane ii) blood test for substances? Maybe he was drunk?! iii) speeds involved etc........................

In my experience the police will not be remotely interested in such things and it will be too late to establish much at all now, especially as there were no witnesses. Even if there were they would usually get together and lie - they certainly did in my case. Despite clear marks on the road showing what had happened, the police were quite happy to accept their sketch showing something completely different. As far as I can tell, the police do not do accident scene investigation as farang know it.

If the OP can establish and prove such facts in his favour then of course they will be relevant in his defence against the charge of reckless driving causing death and he needs to do as much as possible. The police are not likely to help him disprove their case, however, and if he's found guilty then it's only a matter of how much it's going to cost him in compensation and fines, assuming that such a charge can be dealt with by way of fine? Does anyone know what the potential penalty is?

I don't know how serious a previous poster was, but some people I know would consider leaving the kingdom at this point, assuming they still had their passport.

Let's hope for some justice, but it doesn't sound good. The family might settle for something reasonable, but the police charge is also a big issue I think.

[mickba]

and we wonder why so many flee the scene of an accident.

I certainly don't and I would have done if circumstances had allowed it.

[ALFREDO]

I drove once on an Thai Highway in Isaan, a two lane road with a Motorbike lane attached.

I drove a Pickup on the right lane of that two lane road and fast, about 140 km/h.

After i overtook a Truck I stayed on that lane, was nearly no traffic.

Suddenly, a lone Motorbike driver changed from his Motorbike lane very fast to my side.

Crossing the left lane in such a hurry, I could not stop fast enough.

We touched near my left front wheel and as I still was faster he scratched my car all the way to the back to the trunk.

He leaned on my car, so after my car was gone, he fell on to the road surface.

I saw it in the back mirror, he rolled more times and than was on his feet again.

As there where no other cars or motos around and he did not appear to be seriously injured, and as he was to blame,

in my opinion.

I accelerated.

My insurance had to pay the not small damage and new painting, no problem.

TIT.

[jimmybkk]

It makes you wonder how many people have died at the scene of the accident because there's no-one else around and the driver doesn't stop and so no medical assistance is provided to the victim. Unfortunately the way the law is almost encourages this.

[rana391]

Thanks all for the helpful and sympathetic replies.

The insurance company was Liberty insurance, 200k bail bond seems to be standard here. We have asked for the results of any blood test however we have had no answer. apparently we do not get to see the evidence in the case before the next stage in the court. The rider was in the wrong lane (far right lane overtaking a truck) but apparently was not speeding, I am a little cynical of that statement. The truck he was overtaking stopped briefly then drove off. The family is not negotiating at all, they want their 14,500.000 plus the insurance money.

I do not know what happens in court if the family is not happy with the offers put before them. The similar incidents I have found on the net all seem to have the settlement with the family in place and this is reflected by the judges decision.

The police appear to have been very fair and I have no real complaints with the way they have handled the situation. The charges were a result of the families complaints and the police did appear to try and talk the family out of pursuing it further.

I certainly did not appreciate flying back to Thailand from Australia for my first appointment with the prosecutor, driving with my lawyer from Bangkok to Nakhon Sawon arriving at the appointed time to be told they were to busy to see us that day and to reschedule! When we returned for the next meeting I was placed in the cells with assorted long term and short term residents while my bail hearing took place, I had no warning of this (in fact quite the opposite) I had my wallet, my gold ring and my phone with me, all attracted a lot of interest and several attempts to separate me from my money! My lawyer was shocked at what happened and I think was more upset than I was. It is not something I wish to repeat.

C

[HowardJohnson]

When I had an accident that was not my fault (no fatalities) the police started to angle for some kind of payout.

I am lucky that my mrs has a friend who is a police major and after a few phone calls, the issue went away. It cost me a good bottle of scotch and dinner for his family.

To the OP: If you have a police friend or someone in your family knows one, then get them to make a few calls. It might make them back off a little.

Good luck

HoJo

[JimmyTheMook]

The fact that you are a farang is neither here nor there in the court's eyes. You will be treated as any other person will be treated.

Wake Up

[Neeranam]

and we wonder why so many flee the scene of an accident.

I certainly don't and I would have done if circumstances had allowed it.

The best thing to do.

[henryalleman]

About ten years ago I had an accident when leaving the highway in near Takhli. A motorist hit me in front and he flew over my pick up. I thought he was death, lucky he was not. i picked him up and brought him to an nearby hospital in Chainat. And drove off. But my pick up was so damaged that a km later he I had to left it besides the road. We've got a ride back home to Thakli. my wife told me not to leave the house, and the family contacted a friend who was a lawyer. He also advised me not to leave the house before he spoke with the police at Chainat. After a few day's he took me and my wife to the police station and make a deal with the motorist and his employer who was the owner of the motorbike. my wife and the family lawyer urge me not to open my mouth at all and behave modest and don't where any ring or watch. When we arrived at the parking of the Chainat police station the lawyer talked first with the counter party and warned them not to exaggerate with their demands. The outcome was that an agreement was made at the office in the police station in the presence of an senior police officer, I payed the motorist 5000 Baht(medical bills and 1 month salary) and the employer a new motorbike. No fine at all, even I was wrong. The lawyer went with us and the employer to an motorbike dealer that he knew and he persuaded the counterpart to buy a used motorbike of 20 000 baht. After that he took my wife and me to a garage he knew and sold the total loss motorbike for 8000 baht. Than he took us to another garage who fixed the heavy damaged pick up for 25 000 Baht in just 72 hours. I did not have to pay because that garage had still and open bill to another garage who was a friend of the lawyer, and that garage(who had no time to fix my car) would collect it from the insurance company. I can imaging that you are bewildered. But this is Thailand also, its all depend on who you know, and the relationships of the one who you know, and so on. Its always amazes me how quick and adequate the Thai who knows who network system works. This network system can arrange the most difficult and almost impossible problems in no time, without it costs you anything.

Without that who knows who network you are a sitting duck and an easy victim as a foreigner in Thailand.

So my best advise to the OP is. Don't your Thai family have a circle of who knows who, where they can ask some help from? If so, let them arrange the problem, and keep yourself out of it and certainly don't make any contact with your opponent or police.

Good luck, I can imaging how desperate you must feel

[Neeranam]

So my best advise to the OP is. Don't your Thai family have a circle of who knows who, where they can ask some help from? If so, let them arrange the problem, and keep yourself out of it and certainly don't make any contact with your opponent or police.

The very best the OP can do.

I had a car accident once - the pickup hit me when it was on the wrong side of the road. They were trying to pin it on me until I made the phone call to the "poo yai". They spoke with the Chief of police(a small Isarn town) and it turned from me having to pay them to them paying for all my damages + compensation. It's the way it works here - get that "important persons number, whateve it takes".

[jimmybkk]

It may not be a bad idea to get any assets that you may have into someone else's name, just in case.

[Sabum]

"The fact that you are a farang is neither here nor there in the court's eyes. You will be treated as any other person will be treated."

Soundman, I know you want to think you know alot about Thailand, and maybe you usually do, but in this case you are horribly wrong and giving out terrible advice. There are entire websites set up to document and report ridiculous rulings by Thai judges that favor Thai vs Farang in cases where the judge states "I am ruling in favor of the defendant as he is Thai and you are foreigner and this is Thailand" YES THAT IS ALMOST A DIRECT QUOTE. They see nothing wrong with this.... its a travesty of justice, I would gladly find the links for you but THEY ARE BLOCKED IN THAILAND.

[SuratJohn]

When I had an accident that was not my fault (no fatalities) the police started to angle for some kind of payout.

I am lucky that my mrs has a friend who is a police major and after a few phone calls, the issue went away. It cost me a good bottle of scotch and dinner for his family.

To the OP: If you have a police friend or someone in your family knows one, then get them to make a few calls. It might make them back off a little.

Good luck

HoJo

That's how my wife solved an accident wich was my fault. She paid the first policeman who arrived 2000Baht and we could leave the scene without any problems

...wouldn't try this in europe

[sendbaht]

Sad story man. I wish you lots of luck. This makes me NOT want to own a car now. Sometimes I feel like buying one but this put a damper on it.

[adjan jb]

14,500,000 THB...

Or do the off, if you've got your Passport...

[Maigo6]

I was riding a motorcycle once in Pattaya a long time ago, it was Songkran time and a pizzed up Thai guy staggered off the pavement between 2 cars and hit my handlebar as he staggered into the road and fell into my bike, I came off the bike and sustained injuries to my Hand and face, the Bike was damaged too.

"

We all ended up at the police station, this guy had a friend with him who spoke good English and this guy told the Police exactly what had happened, ( "It was not the Farangs Fault, my friend was drunk, it was my friends fault ! " ).

My passport was kept by the Police and we all went away, a few days later I went back to the Police station and had to pay the Thai guy 3000 Baht, cos apparently he couldn't go to work for a few weeks as he had a slight limp. ( My hand was swollen up like a football, and I had a cut above my eye )

Then I had to pay 500 Baht fine for having an accident that wasn't my fault. ( Amazing ! )

I then got my passport back and that was the end of it. Fair enough to the Thai guys friend who actually apologized to me and said his friend was sorry too, it was just that the Law favoured his friend in this case and he couldn't afford to pay me anyway even if it had favoured me !

I asked the Police why I had to pay when they had been told by this guys friend that it was the Thai guys Fault, the Police said it was because he was a pedestrian and I was on a Motorcycle.

So I asked the Police that if I saw him riding down the road on his Motorcycle and ran out in front of him causing him to suffer injuries would he have to pay me as I was a pedestrian ?

He advised me to leave the Police Station as he was busy.

This was many years ago, maybe things have changed since then, it used to be biggest was at fault even when they were not at fault at all.

I know Laos had the same policy too.

Good luck and get a Lawyer, Farang Lawyer sounds perfect in this case.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Maigo6

[Hawkup2000]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Actor-Kills-...html&st=175

Post 196 clearly states that the famous thai actor paid the victims family 500,000 baht, just to put things in perspective.

How much did the retard the in the Mercedes, who crashed into a bus, pay to compensate his victims?

[mickba]

Thanks all for the helpful and sympathetic replies.

The insurance company was Liberty insurance...............asked for the results of any blood test however we have had no answer. apparently we do not get to see the evidence in the case before the next stage in the court. ..........................................................The charges were a result of the families complaints and the police did appear to try and talk the family out of pursuing it further........................... flying back to Thailand from Australia for my first appointment with the prosecutor, driving with my lawyer from Bangkok to Nakhon Sawon ................................... next meeting I was placed in the cells with assorted long term and short term residents while my bail hearing took place, .......................not something I wish to repeat.

C

I'm a bit confused. Apologies if I misread a date, but today's post by the OP appears to move the story on a few months from yesterday's and certainly well past the point at which most of us are advising.

Is there a Part 3 due tomorrow which gives us the final outcome?

[joskydive]

Thanks all for the helpful and sympathetic replies.

The insurance company was Liberty insurance...............asked for the results of any blood test however we have had no answer. apparently we do not get to see the evidence in the case before the next stage in the court. ..........................................................The charges were a result of the families complaints and the police did appear to try and talk the family out of pursuing it further........................... flying back to Thailand from Australia for my first appointment with the prosecutor, driving with my lawyer from Bangkok to Nakhon Sawon ................................... next meeting I was placed in the cells with assorted long term and short term residents while my bail hearing took place, .......................not something I wish to repeat.

C

I'm a bit confused. Apologies if I misread a date, but today's post by the OP appears to move the story on a few months from yesterday's and certainly well past the point at which most of us are advising.

Is there a Part 3 due tomorrow which gives us the final outcome?

date='2009-01-05 06:16:18'

The date is correct = 2009 - January - 05 @ 06:16:18 = 16 minutes past 6 am

Edited January 5, 2009 by joskydive

[eggomaniac]

btw. If this was Thai on Thai they wouldn't be asking stupid money.

Santika victims being offered 80,000.

About the going rate. (for an accident).

This is NOT true. Besides Soundman's case above, my wife's brother, who IS Thai was driving a company truck which lost a wheel and hit motorbikers, who were Thai, coming the other way. broken legs. The insurance paid up a couple hundred k, but the victims wanted another 60k. The victims family staked his house and would not let him out. His family raised the pay off money. The whole thing was handled by the police, who got their cut. His brother is a police officer in another province and that did not help.

There was no lawyers involved. My wife just said about this pay off money. "you cannot say no, Impossible"

Do you have a Thai wife or friend who can just go and ask the police if the money can raised, are the charges dropped? Has anybody suggested you call YOUR Embassy? I don't know, but maybe they can negotiate a $$$??? fine.

I am not saying being a farang does not make it worse, but Thais face some of the same legal processes, too.

Good luck. What a crappy end of the stick! holy mackeral, the OP said 14,500.000 ,,, I just noticed it is 14,500,000 WOW a 1/2 million dollars!?

Edited January 5, 2009 by eggomaniac

[yabaaaa]

..............What if some twit jumps from a condo & lands on your car passing by? ................

According to this judge - yes.

What common sense ? TiT

I was told very early on by GF "if big car hit small m/bike big car can pay" - if big car is driven by farang then double it.

I honestly believe they could wait at the side of the road and hurl an old m/bike at your car and you would pay.

My own case is that I drove across a level crossing, at night, indicating as I went to turn right directly the other side of it. The idiot biker boy came from behind flat out over the crossing - tried to whip round my front end as I turned - almost made it but clipped my front valance, which put him in a weave and he finally came down, but luckily on open road ahead. He sustained fairly bad cuts/graizes etc but no broken bones - at the speed he was travelling he only had to have hit a kerb or post and he probably would have been dead. I could so very easily have been in the same situation as yourself and for that I have to be grateful.

No lights, no brakes, no helmet and being in the wrong all became irrelevant as the baying Thais and police all gathered.

My insurance company guy was quite helpful at the police station but then I was left to negotiate with the family, the police having given them my phone number. The GF negotiated them down from 25k to 5k on the basis that otherwise I would pay nothing and they would be left to deal with the insurance company as I was leaving Thailand shortly. Having paid the 5k and a 500 baht fine for having an accident (?) the police returned my licence and released the m/bike and they closed the case. Fortunately I had recently obtained a Thai driving licence or that would have cost me more. I also had to pay 1500 baht for the police to photograph the damage to my car. I haven't resolved the car repair yet but it should be OK.

Although the police and the insurance guy were reasonable in my case and both spoke a little English, the first thing you need in these cases is a Thai who is very definitely on your side, intelligent and vocal. Thereafter, and obviously in your situation, you need a good lawyer and, unless you are very confident you can find one you can trust by yourself, I would concur with the advice that you contact Sebastian at Isaan Lawyers.

Yes, the Bangkok lawyer and the amount of the claim are probably tactics, but clearly the family feel confident and are going for it. I wish you the very best of luck - I'm afraid you're going to need it. Please keep us up to date and do name your insurance company.

These events make you wonder whether it's worth farang owning and driving a car in Thailand.

Hmmmm land of no responsibilty eh?? Ok how about if big truck hits small car??? How about if pick up hits mini? how about if both cars are the same size but one has a towbar at rear making it 6 inches longer. Im not mocking How do they decide?

[yabaaaa]

So my best advise to the OP is. Don't your Thai family have a circle of who knows who, where they can ask some help from? If so, let them arrange the problem, and keep yourself out of it and certainly don't make any contact with your opponent or police.

The very best the OP can do.

I had a car accident once - the pickup hit me when it was on the wrong side of the road. They were trying to pin it on me until I made the phone call to the "poo yai". They spoke with the Chief of police(a small Isarn town) and it turned from me having to pay them to them paying for all my damages + compensation. It's the way it works here - get that "important persons number, whateve it takes".

Next question is has any Farang here riding his/her bike been hit by a Thai in a car and what was the outcome of that?

[Briggsy]

Next question is has any Farang here riding his/her bike been hit by a Thai in a car and what was the outcome of that?

Yes, me.

A pick-up truck ran a red light in Kampaeng Saen, Nakorn Pathom and knocked me off my motorbike.

Tons of witnesses, not one of whom did anything.

Pick-up truck did not stop leaving me and the bike on the ground.

[mickba]

<BR>. Im not mocking How do they decide?<BR>

Although it's often interpreted as big pays small, I think it's based on the assumption that big has more money than small i.e on ability to pay. That's why it's usually assumed that farang will pay because he can pay. Fault doesn't seem to come into it.

I think some people are reading the OP and skipping to the end to comment. As per OP's post on page 2, this saga seems to be a lot further on than they think - he's already been home to Oz, flown back and seen the inside of a jail!

[rana391]

Sorry if I have been unclear with the timing.

The accident was approx 4 months ago. After the accident I returned to Australia for approx 1-2 weeks prior to returning to meet with the family and the insurance. After the meeting my passport was held by the police for 2 months until they lodged the paperwork with the court at which time I received my passport back. The court then gave me a date to come back and talk to the prosecutor, I once again returned to Oz for 7-10 days before returning for the initial meeting approx 26th of November (this was the meeting when they were too busy to see myself and my lawyer). This was then rescheduled to approx 16th December. I was put in the cells, eventually granted bail and returned to Oz on the 18th December. My next appointment in court is the 16th of Feb.

Please accept my apologies for any vagueness, this as you can imagine has been a very stress full and taxing time.

C