Is Thailand Getting Too Expensive?

[sarahsbloke]

Your electric, water, internet, phone line and gas comes to around 1,100 baht or so a month? That hardly seems credible, the phone line on itself must be 200 baht or so before you even add on the cost of the internet.

Phone line + internet by TOT = 630bht

Electricity 190bht standing charge + 300 units at .92bht/unit + 7 percent tax = 500bht

Piped water free if kept within limits (but nobody on the Mooban knows the limit as we haven't managed to exceed it yet)

Drinking water 200bht (should I include this as a util?) 1 crate of 20 bottles and one very large thingy delivered each week

Gas nothing so far as there was a cylinder already here when I moved in .......... but they are about 500bht and last 6 months

Total 1330bht a month (or 28UKP) .... OK so I was 3UKP out at current exchange rates (but when I last changed money I got 54bht to 1UKP so 25UKP = 1350bht)

Edited March 23, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Benjie]

Your electric, water, internet, phone line and gas comes to around 1,100 baht or so a month? That hardly seems credible, the phone line on itself must be 200 baht or so before you even add on the cost of the internet.

Phone line + internet by TOT = 630bht

Electricity 190bht standing charge + 300 units at .92bht/unit + 7 percent tax = 500bht

Piped water free if kept within limits (but nobody on the Mooban knows the limit as we haven't managed to exceed it yet)

Drinking water 200bht (should I include this as a util?) 1 crate of 20 bottles and one very large thingy delivered each week

Gas nothing so far as there was a cylinder already here when I moved in .......... but they are about 500bht and last 6 months

Total 1330bht a month (or 28UKP) .... OK so I was 3UKP out at current exchange rates (but when I last changed money I got 54bht to 1UKP so 25UKP = 1350bht)

But that's living a VERY frugal life, the very very cheapest internet line, 300 units of electricity (what's this? a few light bulbs, a fan, the PC and a small fridge).

That's not like for like now is it? That didn't cost you 300 quid in the UK.

[elliss]

The big question, is Thailand becoming too expensive? Depends on what kind of lifestyle you enjoy most.

Although I am in my late 50s, I'm certainly not old and decrepit and still like to party.

The main attraction for me in Thailand is the social and nightlife, wine women and song that are unaffordable and unattainable for me in the UK. But now because of price increases and the dwindling bank exchange rates, social has become a rare luxury, so I am having to stay home more and doing not a lot more than if I had stayed in the UK.

I agree with some posters that we can live in Thailand for far cheaper than in the West, but for me, the fun lifestyle that Thailand was renowned for, is rapidly disappearing.

So yes, we are able to live in Thailand for cheaper, but with less quantity and quality, so really it`s becoming less.

Some of us maybe content, but for others who are now finding what they enjoy most is limited due to expense, life can become very dull here.

right on big wheelman , you are one of the lucky brigade,

you do not have thai family , dependent on you .

how do you explain to them ,, you are not the rich farang , they think you are ..sob sob..

do you still love me ?????

[sarahsbloke]

But that's living a VERY frugal life, the very very cheapest internet line, 300 units of electricity (what's this? a few light bulbs, a fan, the PC and a small fridge).

That's not like for like now is it? That didn't cost you 300 quid in the UK.

The only item missing from my home in Thailand is a freezer, my fridge freezer is quite large.

I use a fan rather than aircon as aircon gives me a very dry throat (and I quite like the heat, most of the time)

Back in the UK almost all my electric was for heating, my Thai internet line is twice that of my UK internet line.

I guess I am a little bit more environmentally friendly than most.

I have noticed some of my neighbours sit in an air conditioned home 24/7 while their Thai wives sit outside .... I consider their behaviour abnormal.

Edited March 23, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[ahinkel]

But that's living a VERY frugal life, the very very cheapest internet line, 300 units of electricity (what's this? a few light bulbs, a fan, the PC and a small fridge).

That's not like for like now is it? That didn't cost you 300 quid in the UK.

The only item missing from my home in Thailand is a freezer, my fridge freezer is quite large.

I use a fan rather than aircon as aircon gives me a very dry throat (and I quite like the heat, most of the time)

Back in the UK almost all my electric was for heating, my Thai internet line is twice that of my UK internet line.

I guess I am a little bit more environmentally friendly than most.

I have noticed some of my neighbours sit in an air conditioned home 24/7 while their Thai wives sit outside .... I consider their behaviour abnormal.

Its called " not getting under the little ladys feet" dude.

[TheItaliann]

The only way that Euros can participate in this thread is to whine as its just laughable to imply that the COL in Thailand is greater than anywhere in Western Europe.

With the American economy crash and pending bankruptcy, that is a more interesting comparison and there might be some truth there considering the housing markets.

Europe is going bankrupt too btw but hurray to socialism cause the cost of living still won't go down. lol.

Edited March 23, 2010 by TheItaliann

[473geo]

The only way that Euros can participate in this thread is to whine as its just laughable to imply that the COL in Thailand is greater than anywhere in Western Europe.

With the American economy crash and pending bankruptcy, that is a more interesting comparison and there might be some truth there considering the housing markets.

Europe is going bankrupt too btw but hurray to socialism cause the cost of living still won't go down. lol.

But perhaps the standard of living will??

[torrenova]

The big question, is Thailand becoming too expensive? Depends on what kind of lifestyle you enjoy most.

Although I am in my late 50s, I'm certainly not old and decrepit and still like to party.

The main attraction for me in Thailand is the social and nightlife, wine women and song that are unaffordable and unattainable for me in the UK. But now because of price increases and the dwindling bank exchange rates, social has become a rare luxury, so I am having to stay home more and doing not a lot more than if I had stayed in the UK.

I agree with some posters that we can live in Thailand for far cheaper than in the West, but for me, the fun lifestyle that Thailand was renowned for, is rapidly disappearing.

So yes, we are able to live in Thailand for cheaper, but with less quantity and quality, so really it`s becoming less.

Some of us maybe content, but for others who are now finding what they enjoy most is limited due to expense, life can become very dull here.

I think this is the key for non working expats or retired folk. The idea of a retirement enjoying all the things that your meagre retirement funds did not allow you to purchase in your home country must have seemed attractive beyond comprehension. However, those people with poor retirement funds are unlikely to be clued up on FX depreciation and disparities in inflation over time. Now time and the FX changes have caught them out and for many, there is no opportunity to go "home". And I've not even touched the near end of life medical questions which have not yet been faced in any great numbers but which will come in the forthcoming decades.

As for tourists, then Thailand is not as cheap but the attractions are greater so it matters less. For the expats, it is frightening. GBP people need 50% more than 5 years ago and they must budget for further falls to 200% of 2004 prices as Thai inflation and FX falls see GBP values at only 50% of 2004 values.

[TheItaliann]

of coure

0% interest rates

lol

inflation

The only way that Euros can participate in this thread is to whine as its just laughable to imply that the COL in Thailand is greater than anywhere in Western Europe.

With the American economy crash and pending bankruptcy, that is a more interesting comparison and there might be some truth there considering the housing markets.

Europe is going bankrupt too btw but hurray to socialism cause the cost of living still won't go down. lol.

But perhaps the standard of living will??

[smokie36]

The big question, is Thailand becoming too expensive? Depends on what kind of lifestyle you enjoy most.

Although I am in my late 50s, I'm certainly not old and decrepit and still like to party.

The main attraction for me in Thailand is the social and nightlife, wine women and song that are unaffordable and unattainable for me in the UK. But now because of price increases and the dwindling bank exchange rates, social has become a rare luxury, so I am having to stay home more and doing not a lot more than if I had stayed in the UK.

I agree with some posters that we can live in Thailand for far cheaper than in the West, but for me, the fun lifestyle that Thailand was renowned for, is rapidly disappearing.

So yes, we are able to live in Thailand for cheaper, but with less quantity and quality, so really it`s becoming less.

Some of us maybe content, but for others who are now finding what they enjoy most is limited due to expense, life can become very dull here.

Even for a relative newcomer its becoming less and less attractive. Not a money issue but i'm already looking elsewhere in SEA for the longer term.

[Naam]

One thing not mentioned is the difference between retired expats and expats trying to raise a family. It is insanely expensive to give kids a quality education. I have to say that Thailand is a great place to retire but an expensive place to raise a family if you are concerned about your children getting a quality education.

Some people seem to want to emphasize that a BMW is much more expensive here. How many expats do you think drive Mercedes or BMW's? No doubt they are quality vehicles but why would anyone on a limited budget want to buy one?

I am retired and want for nothing. I give my wife 25,000 baht a month for household expenses. Clothing is NOT an important item for me. She buys my clothes with her budget as well as my cigarettes. I drink beer a couple times a week and she does NOT pay my bar bill. I'm comfortable in T shirts and shorts. I hate to wear shoes and refuse to go to fancy restaurants where I have to dress respectably. I DON'T have to impress anyone and dress comfortably to suit myself.

I do buy unneeded toys because I can afford them and enjoy them. We have a car, truck, two tractors and a motorbike. The car was a stupid unneeded purchase but I wanted it. The one tractor is another toy with a blade, tiller and plow. My wife was upset when I bought that but it is MY toy and I like to play with it.

If not for my toys, we could easily live on 30,000 baht per month. Our home and small farms are paid for and I rent out my condo. Counting the condo income makes it a third less than the 30,000 per month. Could I live in the US as well as I live here for 30,000 baht per month?

Gary,

except for the 30k budget a month your described lifestyle is nearly identical to mine. my shortcomings are that i would like to own and operate a tractor with all the attachments. alas, "my" land is too small for a toy like yours

[lovelomsak]

Lets be honest here Thailand was never cheap if you wanted same standard of life here as your home country. What was always cheaper here was social life.

Yes you can buy a house here in the sticks for $50,000 dollars but you can buy a house in the sticks in Canada for $50,000 also. Saw one in rural Alberta small town completely renovated new everything $30,000 that is just under 1,000,000 baht.

Now to live to a good standard here lets compare.

In Canada on$50,000 a year I was able to own a new car paid for ,a house on1/2 acres of land with ocean view looking across strait of georgia at Vancouver city. I travelled every year for 2 months to Thailand, had a 26 foot sailboat on the saltwater and a 14 foot powerboat on the lake. This on the equivalent of under 1,500,000 baht a year.

Now in Thailand no matter where I live I donot really own it I am foreigner.( yes I will get arquements on this but for rightout ownership the answer is no right) Car is affordable here no problem. But what about sailboat whats the cost of having and maintaining one here. Powerboat costs and maintainence here. And 2 month holiday to anyother country every year well living here. It couldnot be done here at anywhere near the costs in Canada. Sailboat and moorage alone would be so pricey. Prime real estate with ocean view to buy or rent is pricey. Also member of health club and yacht club.

20 years ago when I first came getting 18 baht to the dollar, The only thing cheaper was to buy a house and here again I will point out a foreigner really doesnot buy just pays rent up front. ( with that said some can still speculate and buy hoping to resell for profit, if the sponsor doesnot take him for a ride).We come here for the cheap social life compared to our home countries it is a great place to kick back and leave your worries at home.

[Forethat]

Some people seem to want to emphasize that a BMW is much more expensive here. How many expats do you think drive Mercedes or BMW's? No doubt they are quality vehicles but why would anyone on a limited budget want to buy one?

The BMW was used as an example of an item that will do serious damage to your economy if you attempt to duplicate whatever life you had before you came to Thailand. I also used examples like education, champagne and brand suits. If you would make list of the 5 biggest and most costly (not expensive!) investments you will ever make, the car and the education is on that list. Housing is likely to be at the top, and that's one thing we can agree is cheap in Thailand. In this context, it is tempting to enter the disussion regarding ownership, but I will leave that aside.

I have mentioned this before, but it is clear that there'a difference in living a relaxed life on your own with a girlfriend and spend your days in a t-shirt and a pair of shorts compared to living a normal structured life just as you would do if you didn't live in a developing country. If the latter is what you're after, then you WILL have to make adjustments to your spending habits, or you WILL end up paying a much more expensive price than you would in, for instance, UK.

The interesting thing is why so many refuse to admit that this is true, and instead behave as if Thailand was really cheap. It is not.

Lastly, if this topic aims to clarify to what extent Thailand is getting MORE expensive rather than TOO expensive, there are plenty of statistical sources where the answer to this question can be found. For instance, Thailands CPI (Consumer Price Index) rose over by 3.7% in February (source: Commerce Ministry). This was the fifth consecutive month that saw the growth of CPI. http://english.cri.cn/6826/2010/03/02/1721s553573.htm

Here's another interesting article where the author compared prices as viewed by foreigners, where the conclusion was that inflation in Bangkok's supermarkets from Januari 2008 to Januari 2009 is in the 8-10 % range.

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/inflation-thailand.asp

A great source of information is Bank of Thailand. The good thing (for Thailand), is that increased consumption, currently at 4.7% growth, and the constantly climbing CPI indicates a growing economy (source: Bank of Thailand). If you want to review the economic indicators yourself, here they are:

http://www.bot.or.th/English/Statistics/In...ages/index.aspx

In short, it IS getting more expensive by the day, it is only a matter of personal opinion and condition whether it is getting too expensive, and of course, whether you are currently employing a bilingual gardener (if the prices continues the way they are, I may have to get me one...).

Edited March 24, 2010 by Forethat

[mridiot]

We cided it was too darn esspensive lon thim ahgo. Moved bak to Arkansas where we wurkin as global warmen deeniars.

[neverdie]

I do buy unneeded toys because I can afford them and enjoy them. We have a car, truck, two tractors and a motorbike. The car was a stupid unneeded purchase but I wanted it. The one tractor is another toy with a blade, tiller and plow. My wife was upset when I bought that but it is MY toy and I like to play with it.

Gary, a picture of the toy is required, thanks very much.....SHOW US UR TRACTOR, PLEASE

[neverdie]

We cided it was too darn esspensive lon thim ahgo. Moved bak to Arkansas where we wurkin as global warmen deeniars.

I'm sure you two will be a hit with the ladies, whereever you go. You wouldnt be related to Naam by any chance, would you?

[IanForbes]

Lets be honest here Thailand was never cheap if you wanted same standard of life here as your home country. What was always cheaper here was social life.

Yes you can buy a house here in the sticks for $50,000 dollars but you can buy a house in the sticks in Canada for $50,000 also. Saw one in rural Alberta small town completely renovated new everything $30,000 that is just under 1,000,000 baht.

Now to live to a good standard here lets compare.

In Canada on$50,000 a year I was able to own a new car paid for ,a house on1/2 acres of land with ocean view looking across strait of georgia at Vancouver city. I travelled every year for 2 months to Thailand, had a 26 foot sailboat on the saltwater and a 14 foot powerboat on the lake. This on the equivalent of under 1,500,000 baht a year.

Now in Thailand no matter where I live I donot really own it I am foreigner.( yes I will get arquements on this but for rightout ownership the answer is no right) Car is affordable here no problem. But what about sailboat whats the cost of having and maintaining one here. Powerboat costs and maintainence here. And 2 month holiday to anyother country every year well living here. It couldnot be done here at anywhere near the costs in Canada. Sailboat and moorage alone would be so pricey. Prime real estate with ocean view to buy or rent is pricey. Also member of health club and yacht club.

20 years ago when I first came getting 18 baht to the dollar, The only thing cheaper was to buy a house and here again I will point out a foreigner really doesnot buy just pays rent up front. ( with that said some can still speculate and buy hoping to resell for profit, if the sponsor doesnot take him for a ride).We come here for the cheap social life compared to our home countries it is a great place to kick back and leave your worries at home.

Good post, lovelomsak, I agree. We must have lived not far from each other. And, you managed your finances well... same as I did. That is why I CHOOSE to live in Canada during the spring, summer and fall, and spend the winters in Thailand. I get the best of both worlds. However, I would like a little more balance. Both life styles are completely different but I'm willing to accept that. As I've said many, many times, YOU CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING all at the same time.

It doesn't matter WHAT you want... there will always be a price. It can be money, it can be freedom, it can be a great sex life, it can be variety, it can be exotic, it can be cheap travel and cheap accommodation, or it can be a long term commited relationship. HOWEVER, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A PRICE... either up front in cash, or later when dealing with family issues or health problems.

[mridiot]

We cided it was too darn esspensive lon thim ahgo. Moved bak to Arkansas where we wurkin as global warmen deeniars.

I'm sure you two will be a hit with the ladies, whereever you go. You wouldnt be related to Naam by any chance, would you?

Cousin Nahm? Nut shore cusin nam wunt us fellers ta say bout dat der. Gota goh feed dem pigs over yonder.

Ladies? You joshin now aint yah? We stuped fellers, but have big uns.

[neverdie]

We cided it was too darn esspensive lon thim ahgo. Moved bak to Arkansas where we wurkin as global warmen deeniars.

I'm sure you two will be a hit with the ladies, whereever you go. You wouldnt be related to Naam by any chance, would you?

Cousin Nahm? Nut shore cusin nam wunt us fellers ta say bout dat der. Gota goh feed dem pigs over yonder.

Ladies? You joshin now aint yah? We stuped fellers, but have big uns.

[sarahsbloke]

I have mentioned this before, but it is clear that there's difference in living a relaxed life on your own with a girlfriend and spend your days in a t-shirt and a pair of shorts compared to living a normal structured life just as you would do if you didn't live in a developing country. If the latter is what you're after, then you WILL have to make adjustments to your spending habits, or you WILL end up paying a much more expensive price than you would in, for instance, UK.

I live in a house i couldn't afford in the UK, with a much younger (and prettier) wife than I could afford in the UK.

I eat out often which I couldn't afford in the UK.

In the UK I had a large car (for when it rained) and a large motorcycle (for when it was sunny), now I have a small motorcycle and it pretty much never rains.

In the UK I had to work, out here I don't.

So there you are I admit it I have compromised my lifestyle, swapped a car for a young wife. (How I long to have that car back)

Interesting to read about the house prices in Canada, I didn't know they were so low, Europe is different and the taxes are different.

Maybe I should move to Canada ....... How easy is it to get a lover 1/2 my age in Canada?

Edited March 24, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Loz]

you can get one half your age, but she might be twice your weight too!

Thailand aint cheap if you come here for the women. It can be VERY costly and at best is a drain. But for some its worth it.

But, I don't imagine for a minute that everyone came here for financial reasons. I spent the first couple of years here conceiling laughter when Thais suggestest I am here cos I can earn "big money" here. more than at home. I am an English teacher here. So I found that very amusing. I agree with the chaps who say we find a new beginning and a fresh adventure here. I came for a change of scene, liked it so much I stayed. Since my mid twenties I have been of the view that:

" A fool is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing"

I am of the same opinion still.

Edit. (...and yes, I do know the Oscar Wilde quote that it was based on so no literary lectures, please)

Edited March 24, 2010 by Loz

[Gary A]

I do buy unneeded toys because I can afford them and enjoy them. We have a car, truck, two tractors and a motorbike. The car was a stupid unneeded purchase but I wanted it. The one tractor is another toy with a blade, tiller and plow. My wife was upset when I bought that but it is MY toy and I like to play with it.

Gary, a picture of the toy is required, thanks very much.....SHOW US UR TRACTOR, PLEASE

This is my toy;

This is the one that does the work;

This is our holiday home;

This is my shop;

Edited March 24, 2010 by Gary A

[Naam]

AWESOME Gary!

Edited March 24, 2010 by Naam

[IanForbes]

This topic reminds me of that old song... "I've got a brand new pair of rollerskates and you've got the only key"

[LivinLOS]

I have mentioned this before, but it is clear that there's difference in living a relaxed life on your own with a girlfriend and spend your days in a t-shirt and a pair of shorts compared to living a normal structured life just as you would do if you didn't live in a developing country. If the latter is what you're after, then you WILL have to make adjustments to your spending habits, or you WILL end up paying a much more expensive price than you would in, for instance, UK.

I live in a house i couldn't afford in the UK, with a much younger (and prettier) wife than I could afford in the UK.

I eat out often which I couldn't afford in the UK.

In the UK I had a large car (for when it rained) and a large motorcycle (for when it was sunny), now I have a small motorcycle and it pretty much never rains.

In the UK I had to work, out here I don't.

It never rains ?? You dont have a monsoon where you are then ??

But its obvious from your posts (300 baht electric bills) your living the frugal life.. The frugal side is where its cheap.. No one would deny that.

To duplicate a normal middle class lifestyle (his and hers quality cars, modern electronics, quality clothes, etc) I spend at least as much in Thailand to probably get less quality. Back there it was 400bhp sportscars, highdef home cinemas, etc etc.. Here I go to the beach.

Ultimately its pretty much the climate only that keeps it worth it.

[sarahsbloke]

It never rains ?? You dont have a monsoon where you are then ??

Compared to the UK, it PRETTY MUCH never rains here. (note the qualifier)

Rain every day all day in the UK (well it seemed like that to me the last few years I was there)

Monsoon here is no problem, bucket loads for 2 hours, then nothing the rest of the day.

Good tractor ........ I want one too!

Edited March 24, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[torrenova]

Lets be honest here Thailand was never cheap if you wanted same standard of life here as your home country. What was always cheaper here was social life.

Yes you can buy a house here in the sticks for $50,000 dollars but you can buy a house in the sticks in Canada for $50,000 also. Saw one in rural Alberta small town completely renovated new everything $30,000 that is just under 1,000,000 baht.

Now to live to a good standard here lets compare.

In Canada on$50,000 a year I was able to own a new car paid for ,a house on1/2 acres of land with ocean view looking across strait of georgia at Vancouver city. I travelled every year for 2 months to Thailand, had a 26 foot sailboat on the saltwater and a 14 foot powerboat on the lake. This on the equivalent of under 1,500,000 baht a year.

Now in Thailand no matter where I live I donot really own it I am foreigner.( yes I will get arquements on this but for rightout ownership the answer is no right) Car is affordable here no problem. But what about sailboat whats the cost of having and maintaining one here. Powerboat costs and maintainence here. And 2 month holiday to anyother country every year well living here. It couldnot be done here at anywhere near the costs in Canada. Sailboat and moorage alone would be so pricey. Prime real estate with ocean view to buy or rent is pricey. Also member of health club and yacht club.

20 years ago when I first came getting 18 baht to the dollar, The only thing cheaper was to buy a house and here again I will point out a foreigner really doesnot buy just pays rent up front. ( with that said some can still speculate and buy hoping to resell for profit, if the sponsor doesnot take him for a ride).We come here for the cheap social life compared to our home countries it is a great place to kick back and leave your worries at home.

There is a great deal of truth in that. The problem is that many guys get caught up in the fact that for the first time in decades they are getting sex on their terms and with someone they want to sleep with. That throws all logic out of the window and they want to retire ASAP and make decisions such as doing without a vehicle, insurance, a proper place to live and often don't have enough income, which forces decisions upon them. Some them trot out garbage such as living on Bt10,000 a month as their choice, when in reality it is all they have.

I think most people think that in retirement, they will at least be able to substitute expenditure from things they don't like paying for, such as mortgages, to things they do like, such as sail boats. I don't think most people know how to live long term on their retirement income, assuming it is somewhat lower than when working and no massive pension plan in place. A guy earning $50k as you say may only get $25k in retirement but if he goes to Thailand with a pension of $25k and has never lived on $25k in retirement in Thailand, then there are going to be problems.

"Doing stuff" costs money wherever you are and Thailand is no exception.

It never rains ?? You dont have a monsoon where you are then ??

But its obvious from your posts (300 baht electric bills) your living the frugal life.. The frugal side is where its cheap.. No one would deny that.

To duplicate a normal middle class lifestyle (his and hers quality cars, modern electronics, quality clothes, etc) I spend at least as much in Thailand to probably get less quality. Back there it was 400bhp sportscars, highdef home cinemas, etc etc.. Here I go to the beach.

Ultimately its pretty much the climate only that keeps it worth it.

I remember looking at new motors in Thailand and though I might not have bought a Mercedes in the west or a similar marque, I had way more choice than to pick up a locally made Japanese motor or pay 2/300% tax on a "luxury" vehicle like a small BMW (how the hel_l that is luxury I do not know). I just bought a laptop for the missus and had to pay quite a bit more than I could have paid in the UK and the selection was far less than I would have had. Quality clothes ? do they exist in Thailand ?

As you say, the upside is the hot weather, the beach and Thai food. Getting that costs when living in the UK whereas it sort of comes for free in Thailand. The downside as you also observe is the fact that unless you want to pay way more than you would "back home", you simplify your life and put up with.

The balance of those two has changed for many, it will change for far more and I guess many will forgo the walk on the beach in winter for a reasonably priced car.