Uk Debt Chasing Me

[icequeen]

The op has not comitted a criminal offence, if any sort of court proceedings are involved it will be a county court judgement, which is completely different, this does not involve anyone standing in the dock and defending themselves, all that happens is the creditor submits a form to the court asking for judgement to be issued, if the debtor does not pay or arrange a reasonable offer of payment each month, the court has the following options:

1> Attachment of earnings - deduct money from the clients salary each month, would only be possible if debtor was working for a UK employer and the debtor is not required by law to disclose their employer

2> Instruct Bailiffs to visit home of debtor (as previously said would need to be an address in England or Wales)

3> Apply for a charging order if the debtor owns any property in the UK - for a debt of £6,000 this would be highly unlikely anyway!

The op has nothing to worry about - the lengths these debt recovery people will go to just to try and frighten people are disgraceful!

To the OP: Listen to the positive advice you have been given, you have nothing to worry about!

[britmaveric]

Well lets hope the debt is sold to a thai credit recovery agent and the lad is banged up for theft, then deported.

[Orchidqueen]

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

I have to agree with the other comments, 6k overdraft 3 years ago. I presume no assets in the UK. These Debt colecting agencies always try and put the 'frighteners' on outstanding debts. The original bank in question would have already effectively written the debt off as far as their books are concerned. Remember, these agencies get a cut of what they retrieve.

As for affecting you over here, I find it extremely unlikely they would pursue a debt for 6k from some guy in Thailand with no assets in the UK, when they could spend their time getting cash off one of the millions of people in debt on credit cards/loans etc who are in the UK and working!

£6k is absolute peanuts in the big scheme of things. The only downside is that a CCJ will probably be registered at your last known UK address that the company has registered for you, wich means if you go back to UK will be difficult to get credit for next 6 years.

With regards to this, if it was me, I would tell them that I have no money, can't pay them and tell them they can do what they want!

I think they would rather go after the easy target; Gaz the plumber from Essex who has run up £50k on credit cards! Take a charge on his house and wait for him to get back on his feet and then get the money back. Not some bloke 6000 miles away!

I have worked in financial services for 20 years+ in debt colection, lending, mortgages etc and have seen threats like this many times!

If you want to be completely above board, do as others say, declare yourself bankrupt in the UK and job done......get a few more loans before you do it though!

How does one make themselves bankrupt in the UK when living in Thailand? I thought presence in the UK was required - complete and submit forms etc

[sushi5734]

If you have a court order date then maybe the thai government could revoke your visa or refuse renewal based on an outstanding court order.That will give you a criminal record if you dont appear at the court on the date specified.

I am talking exclusively about UK law here, but if a case goes to a civil court hearing for a civil debt then it is not a criminal matter....end of story

A UK civil court judge would have to issue a bench warrant and goes through the extradition process for 6k, which lets face it isn't going to happen!! There is usually no requirment to attend hearings for civil debt hearings.

There are only certain debts that can result in being locked up - council tax being the main one!! and even that isn't going to cause you problems here.

Fraud is any deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual so for example if you declared that you earn 100k a year and actaully earn 10k and applying for a loan then that would constitute fraud - fraudulent conduct involves deception and dishonesty so not having he money to repay the loan isn't fraud. If you apply for the loan and do a runner and have no intention of paying it back then they would need to prove your intent at the time of applying for the loan (mens rea)

I'm not advocating that people stop paying loans after all you never know when you might need to return to the UK and your credit rating will be well and truely screwed as a 'gone away' record and a CCJ will be placed on the credit file making in pretty much impossible to get any form of loan for 6 years.

[sushi5734]

Well lets hope the debt is sold to a thai credit recovery agent and the lad is banged up for theft, then deported.

Its not theft its a bad debt you might have strong opinions on paying back what you owe and I totally understand that, but its just not theft or any other criminal offence for that matter its just bad debt!!

[taxexile]

I have no sympathy for these companies they feed off other peoples misfortune and misery.

where is the misery and misfortune in this case?

someone did a runner to thailand 3 years ago leaving someone else to pick up his tab and clear up his mess.

it seems that most people here are cheering him on for running away from his responsibilities to the people he willingly entered into a legal contract with to borrow and then repay the money.

its cases like this that make borrowing harder for those who really need the loans and fully intend to pay them back.

although its unlikely that he will be chased up for it in thailand , a debt of 6000 over 3 years works out as under 6 pounds a day. hardly misery and misfortune.

I was in a real fix at the time and it was the only way to survive.

as he is working here now , he should pay it back and stop looking to escape his responsibilities to those who were willing to help him when he most needed it.

[rixalex]

I have no sympathy for these companies they feed off other peoples misfortune and misery.

where is the misery and misfortune in this case?

someone did a runner to thailand 3 years ago leaving someone else to pick up his tab and clear up his mess.

it seems that most people here are cheering him on for running away from his responsibilities to the people he willingly entered into a legal contract with to borrow and then repay the money.

its cases like this that make borrowing harder for those who really need the loans and fully intend to pay them back.

although its unlikely that he will be chased up for it in thailand , a debt of 6000 over 3 years works out as under 6 pounds a day. hardly misery and misfortune.

I was in a real fix at the time and it was the only way to survive.

as he is working here now , he should pay it back and stop looking to escape his responsibilities to those who were willing to help him when he most needed it.

Yep, well said. Why is it that all you guys make these loan companies out to be the devil? Nobody forced you to take their help and you knew the conditions of the loan.

Rather than trying to find ways of wriggling out of standing up to your responsibilities, why not just work out some sort of repayment plan with them. As i understand it, they usually are ready to accept even fairly paltry payments.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

A year ago I would have agreed with the posters who are saying pay your bank debt. But after seeing what the banks have done in the last year, essentially screwing everyone to pay for their bad judgement and then giving all of the executives huge bonuses from taxpayers $$.

I have no sympathy at all for the banks and suggest you don't contact them and verify where you are. If the collection agency sends you another letter have someone write on it in Thai "not at this address" and let it be returned to sender.

The bankers like the politicians are a bunch of mongrels.

[taxexile]

I have no sympathy at all for the banks

i have little sympathy for the banks too , but those who need loans have nowhere else to go ..... the original poster said that the only way he could survive was by borrowing from a bank..... and businesses that offer jobs and opportunities rely on banks for financing.

the more bad debts they have on loans , then the more regular people will suffer as loans become harder to obtain.

the selfish and irresponsible behaviour of the original poster will , in its small way , affect all those who need the services that banks can offer.

remember , it was your money , and my money , that the banks loaned to this joker in his time of need.

a bad risk is a bad risk , whether it be a 6000 pound loan to an irresponsible chancer who cant be found , or a 6 million pound loan to a hedge fund manager , so why is it all right to cheer on the chancer but crucify the hedge fund manager. they both squander our money.

it is the public who will suffer when they default.

Edited January 15, 2009 by taxexile

[ianf]

I have no sympathy at all for the banks

i have little sympathy for the banks too , but those who need loans have nowhere else to go ..... the original poster said that the only way he could survive was by borrowing from a bank..... and businesses that offer jobs and opportunities rely on banks for financing.

the more bad debts they have on loans , then the more regular people will suffer as loans become harder to obtain.

the selfish and irresponsible behaviour of the original poster will , in its small way , affect all those who need the services that banks can offer.

remember , it was your money , and my money , that the banks loaned to this joker in his time of need.

a bad risk is a bad risk , whether it be a 6000 pound loan to an irresponsible chancer who cant be found , or a 6 million pound loan to a hedge fund manager , so why is it all right to cheer on the chancer but crucify the hedge fund manager. they both squander our money.

it is the public who will suffer when they default.

There have been some eloquent replies here regarding a small bank debt. In theory, just in theory, what if the debt was larger, say £150,000 and it was owed to the Inland Revenue? What would happen then as far as chasing in Thailand goes?

[Chaimai]

Well lets hope the debt is sold to a thai credit recovery agent and the lad is banged up for theft, then deported.

Its not theft its a bad debt you might have strong opinions on paying back what you owe and I totally understand that, but its just not theft or any other criminal offence for that matter its just bad debt!!

Theft Act 1968 is my particular favourite:-

Basic definition of theftThe basic definition of theft is defined in S.1(1) of the Act.

The Act states that

A person shall be guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

If the OP did not INTEND to repay the debt, having incurred the overdraft for personal benefit, then I would suggest that it falls within the Theft Act. If the OP genuinely fell upon harder times and has the the desire but not the wherewithall to repay then clearly it is outside the Theft Act.

As an earlier poster noted the Insolvency Act provides the mechanism for legally dealing with such situations.

Practical outcome - the bank will follow it's dormancy procedure (not waiting almost 6 years as somebody stated). This will involve passing the case (as now seems apparent) to a collection agency. This is probably after about 2 months of the bank realising it is getting nowhere. The agency are about the lowest of the low in industry terms and will stoop as low as they need to, to hassle, threaten customers. Two suggestions:-

1. Ignore them. They have no jurisdiction outside the UK and cannot 'attach' to the Passport Agency, Thai Embassy or any other body. They will get bored after their process has run out of steam.

2. Ask them to put their last comments in writing for your consideration - then sue the @rse off them for harassment.

By the way, how did they get your phone number ? New SIM card is a small price to pay for peace and quiet.

[Chaimai]

If you want to be completely above board, do as others say, declare yourself bankrupt in the UK and job done......get a few more loans before you do it though!

Sound advice from a former debt collector

[twschw]

"The Act states that

A person shall be guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it."

Did the OP dishonestly appropriate the funds? Anyway there isn't alot the collectors can do.

[Petesear]

Is there not a minimum amount that must be owed before you can declare yourself bankrupt?

I am sure I remember a figure of over £15k??

And I do think you need to do it in person, and go to court.

So the £1000 you would spend going to the uk and doing all this would be better spent as an offering to the debt collecting agency, rather than putting a ccj on a property owned by someone you know(family?), you must have had an address when you took on this overdraft, spending it abroad somewhere, as you have not been in the UK for 10 years.

Could the owner of this property be the one who passed on your number?

At the end of the day you are obviously causing a problem for someone as they have passed on your details, so contacting the agency and offering a payment might be the way forward??

Or top up the debt and make it all worth while!

[Kharzi]

I have no sympathy at all for the banks

remember , it was your money , and my money , that the banks loaned to this joker in his time of need.

Oh dear, the rubbish spouted by the sanctimonious in establishing their moral high ground knows no bounds it seems.

My dear chap, the point you semed to have missed in your urge to pass judgement on the OP is that the money lent by the banks over the past 5 years belonged to no one. It didn't exist but was created as debt recycled to the market and packaged ad infinitum as valueless bonds etc.,etc..Fractional reserve banking at its best and it has near as dammit destroyed them and our economies too. Criticising the poor chap for his indebtedness is a bit like blaming someone with a cold for spreading flu.

Get off your silly soapbox and leave the guy alone. He is obviously seized of sufficient integrity to be concerned enough to post his worries here but in all truth he has nothing to be sorry about.

[taxexile]

He is obviously seized of sufficient integrity

if he had but one microgram of integrity then he would be attempting to pay back that which he agreed to pay back when the bank helped him out in his time of need and not fretting about losing his right to remain unchallenged as a debtor (working and earning) thousands of miles away from the uk.

if he can do it and get away with it , then why arent we all doing it ?

[Kharzi]

He is obviously seized of sufficient integrity

if he can do it and get away with it , then why arent we all doing it ?

But that's the whole point, my dear sweet naif, everyone is.

[Geekfreaklover]

He is obviously seized of sufficient integrity

if he can do it and get away with it , then why arent we all doing it ?

But that's the whole point, my dear sweet naif, everyone is....

....Hence the credit crunch/global depression!!

[Kharzi]

But whereas the poor OP is to be censured it seems by the holier than thou brigade the banks who failed to pay their creditors are rewarded by limitless government bailouts.......

[kjhbigv]

If you want to be completely above board, do as others say, declare yourself bankrupt in the UK and job done......get a few more loans before you do it though!

Sound advice from a former debt collector

Thought someone would spot that.....just jesting....but then again.....

[rixalex]

But whereas the poor OP is to be censured it seems by the holier than thou brigade the banks who failed to pay their creditors are rewarded by limitless government bailouts.......

Believing in standing by an agreement you willingly and readily accepted, whether the agreement be with a best mate, an organisation, bank or whatever, doesn't make you holier than thou, it just makes you a person who stands by his or her word.

Deciding after you have benefited from a bank loan that actually after all you really don't like banks and the way they operate, and think that this should suddenly exhonerate you from returning the money seems mightily convenient. I suppose you would do the same if a mate loaned you money and you later decided you didn't like him very much?

[farangmal]

Well lets hope the debt is sold to a thai credit recovery agent and the lad is banged up for theft, then deported.

Its not theft its a bad debt you might have strong opinions on paying back what you owe and I totally understand that, but its just not theft or any other criminal offence for that matter its just bad debt!!

So it's ok to take say £10K from a bank but not pay it back but not ok to rob the said establishment. Theft is THEFT. Full stop.

[Petesear]

Did the OP not ask for advice and experience rather than self-righteous opinions?

[Monkeypants]

The only way that the OP could be convicted in a criminal court is if he intended to use the money and not make a payment, this could be classed as fraud. Because it was an overdraft i think, then that would normally be from the account that monies are regularly deposited, e,g wages. Same if it was a credit card, make a few payments first before defaulting.

After 6 years of you the borrower not responding to any letter sent by either the lending bank or the debt collection agency, the debt becomes "statued barred" and nobody can force you to pay it, at this time your credit rating is as good as it was before. "Statued barred" means that you still owe the debt but are under no legal obligation to repay it. All the credit reference agencys would have to remove the "default" recorded on their file. If a debt collector knocked on their door, , within in the 6 year time period, if he/you do sign something to say that you are the owner of the debt, then the 6 years starts again from that date.

My advice is don't worry, nothing can happen it is a civil matter and as such is not a criminal matter. If you are worried, change your telephone number in LOS and sleep well.

Another poster asked if you owed money to the Inland Revenue, in answer to that, again it is a civil matter but unlike most debts, the Inland revenue have no time limit in which to chase you for the money, if you owe it to them , you owe it for life, but this does not show on credit reference checks (AFAIK).

Mortgage repossession, the mortgage lender can chase you for 12 years before the debt can be "Statued Barred"

Sleep well OP

Edited January 15, 2009 by Monkeypants

[Owain]

After 6 years of you the borrower not responding to any letter sent by either the lending bank or the debt collection agency, the debt becomes "statued barred" and nobody can force you to pay it, at this time your credit rating is as good as it was before. "Statued barred" means that you still owe the debt but are under no legal obligation to repay it. All the credit reference agencys would have to remove the "default" recorded on their file. If a debt collector knocked on their door, , within in the 6 year time period, if he/you do sign something to say that you are the owner of the debt, then the 6 years starts again from that date.

This not really true. If the company takes you to court and gets a judgement against you then the Limitations act which you are quoting above is void.

[Monkeypants]

In order to take you to court you must have contact with the debt collector and acknowledge a letter or contact

And if this happened, after 6 years the credit reference agency would remove the CCJ from their records.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Monkeypants

[Owain]

But after 6 years the credit reference agency would remove the CCJ from their records.

but the court would not.

[Monkeypants]

Debts where a CCJ has been issued are not covered by the Limitation Act, 1980, therefore they can not become 'Statute Barred'. However the claimant must have a very good reason to ask the Courts to enforce a CCJ which is over 6 years old.

You would need put in your defence that you were unaware of the original CCJ and, since no action had been taken, until now, to 'enforce that ccj' you had, at the time, been unable to submit a defence.

[imaneggspurt]

Just a minute, ill get my flak jacket, . they are bluffing you, unless its a fraud and the police are involved they can do nothing,.write them a letter, tell them you are skint and living with inlaws, change your phone number, give them a post office box address, go there and empty it in the bin every 2 months,alternativly .invite them over to see you and tell them you will meet them at the airport, but dont expect to collect any money off you, i know all this as my next door neighbor has been through this and this is what he did,im not saying i agree with this ( i dont know your personal circumstances ).however sleep easy, they WONT come,,.

[imaneggspurt]

There is no such thing as " UK wide " jurisdiction for settling debt collection. Assuming your debt was incurred with a bank in England the County Court's jurisdiction is restricted to England and Wales only and would have no authority to send in the bailiffs in Scotland never mind Thailand.

The bank has evidently sold on the debt to a recovery agency which has no power to retrieve funds from you in Thailand and has ABSOLUTELY no standing with the Thai government or its departments.

You could however have some sport with the people hounding you by ringing them from time to time to inform them of your location, preferably while ensconced in your deck chair lolling on a beach somewhere in, say, Samui , inviting them to pop round and have a drink whenever they are free. Describing their women folk in zoological terms and casting doubt upon their parentage is always an added bonus.

Great fun, as is sending a postcard to the bank which contributed greatly to your financial affairs.

There is absolutely no dishonour in this and your gloating would not be amiss since the British banking institutions undoubtedly deserve every misfortune likely to befall them. What they have done to hundreds of thousands of innocent victims makes your error pale into utter insignificance.

Best advice/post so far, well done,.