Similans Tourists See Boat People Mistreated

[Jai Dee]

UN concerned at Thai treatment of asylum seekersAsia Pacific

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees says it's concerned at media reports of Thai soliders detaining illegal immigrants from Bangladesh and Burma and forcing them out to sea.

The UNHCR's spokesperson for Asia based in Bangkok, Kitty McKenzie, has told Radio Australia's Asia Pacific program it's requesting clarification of these allegations from the Thai government.

Some media organisations are reporting that the Thai soliders forced 500 asylum seekers into the sea on boats without engines.

The illegal immigrants are reportedly recovering from acute dehydration in India's Andaman Islands and the Indonesian province of Aceh.

Ms McKenzie says the reports are concerning.

"We have requested the Thai government to take all measures necessary to ensure that the lives of the Rohinga boat people are not put at risk and we have reminded the Thai government that these people should be treated humanely in accordance with the international humantarian standards," said Ms McKenzie.

Source: Radio Australia News - 16 January 2009

[jasreeve17]

Reprehensible and disgusting. Sadly, the behavior is not surprising to those of us who have been in LOS for a while...

Even sadder is the knowledge that there will be NO accountability.

Very true, and very sad.

Nothing will come of this.

[Jingthing]

The only thing I can imagine that may pressure the government to crack down on these crimes against humanity is for Bangladeshi expats in the west to stage a protest at Thai embassies. Burmese expats are busy with bigger problems. It is true, sadly, murderous brutality is not very surprising here but what is needed is the light of the world on this, change cannot happen from within.

[barky]

Dozens of Rohingya refugees were beaten and detained for hours by the Thai Navy on an Andaman Sea tourist island, in scenes that unfolded in full view of foreign holidaymakers.

Photographs of the December 23 incident in the Similan Islands were captured by Hong Kong-based tourist Andrew Jones.

Mr Jones, whose name has been changed for the purposes of this article, described how guards armed with M-16 rifles forced the refugees to lie face down in the sand for at least two hours, then ''whipped'' them about the head with a strap if they tried to sit up or move. The refugees were naked to the waist and bound at their wrists.

Some tourists appeared oblivious to the scenes just metres away, continuing to snorkel and sunbathe. Others who were shocked by the treatment of the men and tried to photograph the incident had their cameras snatched away by angry guards, who deleted the images.

Full story and tourist photos of the incident at Phuketwan, and also appearing in the South China Morning Post this morning.

This was just a demonstration of the a TAT promotion "Welcome to the Land of Smirks"

A real example of a facet of the Facade of Thai culture "compassion and selflessness" for those less fortunate (ie don't have lots of money, the only true (god) thing that is respected by many, many Thais).

[MyphuketLife]

Getting lots of BAD publicity in Europe ...from aunty..

Big Nail in the Coffin of Thailands record on Human Rights......

do they want to encourage 'Civilized tourists;....... ??????

or

are they trying to emulate the DIRTY inhumain policies of Burma or North Korea... ...or is it simply MP Rai.....

Honestly, what is worse? The attitude of the Thai army or the quasi absence of reaction of the tourists sunbathing a few meters away ?

The army is worse, I can just imagine how well recieved the Farang tourist coming over and telling the army to stop it and be nice would have been.... Something tells me the tourist would have been in a world of hurt or even magically fallen from a tall building later that night.

[barky]

UN concerned at Thai treatment of asylum seekersAsia Pacific

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees says it's concerned at media reports of Thai soliders detaining illegal immigrants from Bangladesh and Burma and forcing them out to sea.

The UNHCR's spokesperson for Asia based in Bangkok, Kitty McKenzie, has told Radio Australia's Asia Pacific program it's requesting clarification of these allegations from the Thai government.

Some media organisations are reporting that the Thai soliders forced 500 asylum seekers into the sea on boats without engines.

The illegal immigrants are reportedly recovering from acute dehydration in India's Andaman Islands and the Indonesian province of Aceh.

Ms McKenzie says the reports are concerning.

"We have requested the Thai government to take all measures necessary to ensure that the lives of the Rohinga boat people are not put at risk and we have reminded the Thai government that these people should be treated humanely in accordance with the international humantarian standards," said Ms McKenzie.

Source: Radio Australia News - 16 January 2009

The Thai authorities will totally ignore the request by all international organisations because they know nothin's gonna happen, and people (like almost everyone) have short memories. They only obey two rules : 1. Loss of face (embarrassment at doing something wrong, in this case disgusting) and 2. Money!!

Edited January 16, 2009 by barky

[Scott]

I don't think it will do much good to complain to the Thai gov't, since the military is above the gov't!

[barky]

What always surprises me is just how little international news coverage the excesses of the Thai Government/Military/Police get.

Yes, indeed Guesthouse I too always wonder why there is never any repercussion from the international comunity. Why?, payoffs, building/defence contracts, hush money, free sex. What is it that the international politicians and big business get from Thailand to make them turn a blind eye to all Thailand's ugly indiscretions?

[Jingthing]

What always surprises me is just how little international news coverage the excesses of the Thai Government/Military/Police get.

Yes, indeed Guesthouse I too always wonder why there is never any repercussion from the international comunity. Why?, payoffs, building/defence contracts, hush money, free sex. What is it that the international politicians and big business get from Thailand to make them turn a blind eye to all Thailand's ugly indiscretions?

The world's attention span for outrage is a limited commodity. So when international people are thinking about the most horrible outrages in SE Asia, they correctly and naturally think Burma. This is to Thailand's benefit.

[LAZYTERRY]

Thailand hates all foreigners. It is the most xenophobic country on Earth.

Very Very true.

[serpentine]

Human Rights in S.E. asia generally speaking is non existant. The Burma situation is the most horrendous. However too many under the table business deals, not just with regional politicians but with big business in Australia and the US, mean that most governenments are happy to keep the country unstable and led by a junta. These poor fisherman will find no support apart from NGO's who are also considered in many ways a threat to the thai government. The only way they will recieve help is possibly with an international outcry and some serious protests from the big embassies.

I've heard nothing today. Still waiting, but not expecting much either.

[saneroad]

On the Bangkok Post this morning...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/9873...gya-accusations

Navy chief rejects Rohingya accusations

The navy has rejected foreign media reports that sailors beat about 100 Rohingya asylum seekers and set them adrift in a simple boat in the Andaman sea. Navy chief Khamthon Phumhiran dismissed a report on the BBC news service in which the Rohingyas accused the navy of towing them out to sea in boats with no engines and no food.

The report said the comments came from survivors who managed to drift to Indonesia and the Andaman islands.

On Thursday, the South China Morning Post ran a front-page story saying dozens of refugees were detained and beaten on an Andaman island in full view of foreign holidaymakers. It was unclear when the incident took place.

Adm Khamthon refused to accept the reports. He insisted the minority Burmese Rohingyas were not set adrift.

Under no circumstances, he stressed, would the navy do anything so inhumane. Even in a state of war and enemy fighters were seen drifting in the sea, the navy would rescue them in keeping with humanitarian principles.

A picture on the BBC website shows scores of Rohingyas lying face down on a beach on Koh Sai Daeng island off Ranong province.

Adm Khamthon said the picture gave the wrong impression. The asylum seekers were made to lie down on the sand as a precaution to prevent them causing harm to security personnel who were outnumbered. There were about 20 navy personnel at the scene.

He said the asylum seekers were later given shelter, food and water. ''But these pictures obviously did not come up in the media coverage,'' he said.

[Duangta]

Full story and background coverage at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7834075.stm

Thailand's deadly treatment of migrants

A shocking story is unfolding in Thailand. Migrants and refugees who turn up on its shores have testified that they are being sent back to sea in boats without engines, their hands tied, left to their fate.

Hundreds are thought to have suffered this treatment - among them many Rohingya people of western Burma - and many have died. The BBC's Jonathan Head in Bangkok has been investigating what has been happening.

The 46 Rohingyas who arrived by boat at Phrathong Island on Friday morning may be lucky.

Like the hundreds of other asylum-seekers from this Burmese Muslim minority who have arrived on Thailand's Andaman Sea coast, they have been handed over to the Internal Security Operations Command (ISOC), a military authority set up under the Cold War and still given sweeping powers to protect national security.

That means they disappear into a black hole. No visits from lawyers or refugee advocates. The military can do what it likes with them.

But after the spotlight now being shone onto the treatment of previous Rohingya groups, this one may be handled more leniently.

Overboard

Harsh treatment of asylum-seekers is nothing new in Thailand. But the allegations made by Rohingyas who have drifted hundreds of kilometres to the Andaman Islands and Indonesia's Aceh province are shocking.

"We were put on a desolate island for eight days, beaten [and then] put in a flat and open-bodied boat with no engine"

Mohammed, survivor

Survivor's ordeal

According to a local civic group, the Arakan Project, whose staff have done extensive interviews with some of the survivors, they were detained by the Thai security forces in late November and December last year as they arrived by boat.

Instead of being handed over to the police or immigration for processing as illegal immigrants, they were instead taken by military units to an island called Koh Sai Daeng. They were detained there for several days, sleeping out in the open, their hands tied at night.

On 18 December one group of just over 400 was put on a navy boat, which was towing a barge behind it, says Chris Lewa from the Arakan Project.

Their hands were tied. Once out at sea they were ordered to move onto the barge at gunpoint. They refused. The Thai troops then tied the feet of four of them and threw them overboard.

They drifted for more than 10. According to the testimony she has obtained, Ms Lewa says they sighted land - the Andaman Islands - on around the 12th day.

Fearful that the current would sweep their barge away, many of the exhausted and dehydrated Rohingyas leapt into the sea to try to make it to land.

Fewer than 100 were found on board by the Indian coastguard, although an unknown number was also picked up from the sea or on beaches.

Briefer telephone interviews with survivors by the BBC have confirmed this account. Survivors who reached Aceh have told the local media the same thing.

In all, more than 800 Rohingyas were expelled in this way in December. Hundreds may have died.

Denial

The local commander of ISOC in Ranong, Col Manas Khongpan, has denied these allegations. He told the BBC that illegal immigrants are never held by his troops.

Indian coastguards bring in a boat of migrants off the Andaman Islands

Some of the lucky survivors were picked up by the Indian coastguard

But that contradicts comments the BBC has been given by other military and police officials, who say all Rohingya boat-people are now being handled by ISOC.

Some of those officials, who did not want to be named, confirmed that Rohingyas had indeed been set adrift at sea, with little food and water.

They explained that Rohingyas are seen as a greater security threat than the tens of thousands of other illegal migrants, because they are Muslim, because they tend to arrive in large numbers at one time, and because they are almost exclusively men.

Immigration officials told us there is no evidence to support the allegation made by some in the military that Rohingyas have gone to Thailand's deep south to join the Islamic insurgency there.

The officials have told us that while most of the Rohingya want to go to Malaysia - where there is already a community 20,000 strong and the prospect of well-paid jobs - increasing numbers are staying in Thailand. The official figure last year was 4,886, and the unofficial figure may be much higher.

Military's power

The Thai government has now issued a statement saying it is investigating all the facts surrounding these allegations.

It has promised to re-assess the situation of all illegal immigrants in Thailand, numbering perhaps three or four million, most of them from Burma, and to treat them in accordance with humanitarian principles.

Whether it can truly hold the military to account though is open to doubt. In many areas of Thailand the army operates with little civilian oversight. It has huge secret budgets, and extensive business interests.

The current Democrat-led coalition was stitched together last month thanks to the intervention of the powerful army commander General Anupong Paochinda - he may well resist any calls for his men to be brought to justice over these allegations, as his predecessors have.

But it is also worth remembering that under the most recent constitution the most senior commander of ISOC is, in fact, the Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

He has made the rule of law one of the core principles of his administration. Any crimes committed by ISOC personnel, whether against Thais or illegal migrants, will ultimately lie at his door.

Full story and background coverage at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7834075.stm

[Duangta]

Another eye witness report with pictures from the Similan can be found here:

http://khaolakforum.de/index.php?page=Thre...p;threadID=3685

[Langsuan Man]

Note the different photo that accompanies CNN's report of the Thai Navy's denial.

[Pierrot]

On Thursday, the South China Morning Post ran a front-page story saying dozens of refugees were detained and beaten on an Andaman island in full view of foreign holidaymakers. It was unclear when the incident took place.

The SCMP named the place where it happend, ''Donald Duck Bay'' on Koh Baed. The all story came from a Hong Kong resident who were able to take picture of what was going on a few meters from him and then forward them to the SCMP. Other tourists had their camera snatch by the army and the pictures deleted.

[Duangta]

On Thursday, the South China Morning Post ran a front-page story saying dozens of refugees were detained and beaten on an Andaman island in full view of foreign holidaymakers. It was unclear when the incident took place.

The SCMP named the place where it happend, ''Donald Duck Bay'' on Koh Baed. The all story came from a Hong Kong resident who were able to take picture of what was going on a few meters from him and then forward them to the SCMP. Other tourists had their camera snatch by the army and the pictures deleted.

The pics in the link from the Khao Lak forum is from Donal Duck Bay, island No 8 (Koh Baed) at the Similan islands

http://khaolakforum.de/index.php?page=Thre...p;threadID=3685

It was taken by a tourist from Sweden. Apparently a lot of pics were taken from different people. Also in the thread in the khaolakforum you will find pics of another guy from Germany.

[Pierrot]

The current Democrat-led coalition was stitched together last month thanks to the intervention of the powerful army commander General Anupong Paochinda - he may well resist any calls for his men to be brought to justice over these allegations, as his predecessors have.

But it is also worth remembering that under the most recent constitution the most senior commander of ISOC is, in fact, the Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

I look forward to see these two guys in court, the two last PM were kicked out for less than that. But somehow I've the feeling that it won't happen anytime soon. It seems that since they don't need anymore their moral high ground, they have store it together with all the nice stories the yellow people fed us with when they were having their great party on our expenses.

[TAWP]

The current Democrat-led coalition was stitched together last month thanks to the intervention of the powerful army commander General Anupong Paochinda - he may well resist any calls for his men to be brought to justice over these allegations, as his predecessors have.

But it is also worth remembering that under the most recent constitution the most senior commander of ISOC is, in fact, the Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

I look forward to see these two guys in court, the two last PM were kicked out for less than that. But somehow I've the feeling that it won't happen anytime soon. It seems that since they don't need anymore their moral high ground, they have store it together with all the nice stories the yellow people fed us with when they were having their great party on our expenses.

Waa-waa-waa-waa...as if the current PM has any influence on how badly the Navy or Army treats immigrants...it has always been deplorable and it should be corrected.

But I'm sure you have made many posts in the past on how bad the treatment was of the immigrants under Thaksin and how he should be responsible for it...

[Scott]

Note to self: Remember not to overstay visa!

[toptuan]

Navy chief denied all accusations of mistreatment. Of course. Case settled.

[Jingthing]

Yes, the officer denied it so obviously it will NEVER happen again.

By IT I mean farangs will never be witnesses again.

[mrtoad]

Disgusting, but no surprise considering they have been getting away with stuff like this for years. Always gets brushed under the carpet to, which really is condoning these sort of practices.

[TAWP]

The current Democrat-led coalition was stitched together last month thanks to the intervention of the powerful army commander General Anupong Paochinda - he may well resist any calls for his men to be brought to justice over these allegations, as his predecessors have.

But it is also worth remembering that under the most recent constitution the most senior commander of ISOC is, in fact, the Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

I look forward to see these two guys in court, the two last PM were kicked out for less than that. But somehow I've the feeling that it won't happen anytime soon. It seems that since they don't need anymore their moral high ground, they have store it together with all the nice stories the yellow people fed us with when they were having their great party on our expenses.

Waa-waa-waa-waa...as if the current PM has any influence on how badly the Navy or Army treats immigrants...it has always been deplorable and it should be corrected.

But I'm sure you have made many posts in the past on how bad the treatment was of the immigrants under Thaksin and how he should be responsible for it...

What are you talking about? The PM has responsibility for the armed forces.The naval spokesman has lied on this matter.We await developments.

The new PM is to blame for what the Navy do, even if he has only been in power for 5 minutes, the previous implied...

Isn't political bias fun?

Tell me how many posts you two guys have written regarding the responsibility from the previous PMs?

Or do you think this have never happened before?

[Rinrada]

The current Democrat-led coalition was stitched together last month thanks to the intervention of the powerful army commander General Anupong Paochinda - he may well resist any calls for his men to be brought to justice over these allegations, as his predecessors have.

But it is also worth remembering that under the most recent constitution the most senior commander of ISOC is, in fact, the Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

I look forward to see these two guys in court, the two last PM were kicked out for less than that. But somehow I've the feeling that it won't happen anytime soon. It seems that since they don't need anymore their moral high ground, they have store it together with all the nice stories the yellow people fed us with when they were having their great party on our expenses.

Waa-waa-waa-waa...as if the current PM has any influence on how badly the Navy or Army treats immigrants...it has always been deplorable and it should be corrected.

But I'm sure you have made many posts in the past on how bad the treatment was of the immigrants under Thaksin and how he should be responsible for it...

of course he has......after all he was born a FREE and principaled...ENGLISHMAN........Eton and Oxford chap..you ken....

by gawd....splendid bod......right..... harrup....

[Jingthing]

It is not reasonable to expect a new PM could have stopped this from happening. I doubt the Thai military phones the PM ever time they find some illegals. It is reasonable to expect a new PM to do something about it. I don't have high hopes that any action will be taken to investigate the incidents and punish the offenders if they are guilty, or change the policy so this stops happening. Sad really. What is needed is INTERNATIONAL PRESSURE.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Jingthing

[dumball]

What is that expression akin to this scenariio ?

You can take the Thai out of Thailand , but you cannot take Thailand out of the Thai .

Many nationalities move to another country because the laws or religious traits are not to thier liking , then in thier adopted country they teach thier off-spring all the S###T they abhored in the land of thier birth . Strange but very true I am afraid .

[wasabi]

Thailand is a poor third world country what are they supposed to do give them room and board? I don't think these refugees should be abused at all but sending them back where they came from does not seem unreasonable.

[Jingthing]

Thailand is a poor third world country what are they supposed to do give them room and board? I don't think these refugees should be abused at all but sending them back where they came from does not seem unreasonable.

Sending them out to die without food, water, only paddles? Third world, schmird world, the question really is civilized or barbarian.

That is the way you treat people who you don't think are people. Soi dogs are treated better. There is NO excuse! None. Ever.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Jingthing

[saneroad]

Bangkok Post finally giving the issue proper coverage.

This morning's report:

Alleged abuse of refugees probed

THAI MILITARY ACCUSED OF ROLE IN DEATHS

OF HUNDREDS OF BURMESE BOAT PEOPLE

By: Larry Jagan and staff reporters

Published: 18/01/2009 at 12:00 AM

Newspaper section: News

The Foreign Ministry said on Saturday it was investigating the pushing of Burmese boat people out to sea by the Thai military, which human rights advocates and survivors say contributed to the deaths of hundreds of men.

The ministry said it was "investigating and verifying all the facts and surrounding circumstances".

But it added that while protecting the country's sea borders from illegal activities, including illegal immigration, "we are committed to maintaining our traditional adherence to humanitarian principles and the protection of human rights".

The United Nations refugee agency said it was concerned about the reports and urged the government to investigate.

"We request the Thai government take all measures necessary to ensure that the lives of Rohingya are not at risk and they are treated in accordance with humanitarian standards," Kitty McKinsey, a spokeswoman for the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, said.

Local human rights groups who have interviewed survivors, say Rohingya refugees from Burma were held on the remote Koh Sai Daeng off southern Thailand in December, forced back on boats with their hands bound and set adrift with little food and water.

The promised investigation came as survivors and representatives of the Rohingyas, a Muslim minority, claimed yesterday that a further 200 refugees are missing and feared dead after being taken out to sea by Thai authorities and set adrift over the New Year.

There are also fears for 46 Burmese refugee-seekers who were taken into custody by Thai authorities on Friday. A boat carrying the Rohingyas was intercepted off an island in southern Thailand. They were handed over to the local military authorities, according to a source in the area. Local villagers were discouraged from approaching them, he said.

Full story: http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/9921...refugees-probed