Advice On Common Problem, Thai Farang Relationship

[binnsy]

She is a player. Both guys have been played.

The problem is that guys in this situation rarely listen to advice, no matter how well intended the advice is.

I am to blame for ignoring the signs and advice I read on this board and elsewhere. I hope this thread will assist the other guy to make his decision rationally and maybe also assist others in not making the same mistake I made.

The heart ruled the head.

A standing cock has no concience

[caulfield2]

Well, the first question is why we treat girls in Thailand or any other country differently than we would in the US/Europe, etc.

You wouldn't give a woman who lived down the street or a block away money...not only that, but a constant stream of money...would you? Then you add in the fact that this money comprises 50-100% (or more) of the earnings she might make in a "regular" job. So sometimes, it seems like men are trading money for access to something they wouldn't feel justified to have in their own country, a beautiful, 18-24/25/26 year old woman.

Is it the White Knight/Guilt syndrome? Perhaps that is a large part of it...the rationalization you might be helping/improving the quality of life for a family that doesn't have much to begin with. Or is that just what men say to themselves as the excuse for having a sexual relationship with a girlfriend that they wouldn't dream of being with in an industrialized country.

OTOH, if you live in countries around the world long enough (one year in Colombia...off and on 6 months in the Philippines over the past two years...7 months in China and now 7-8 months in Thailand), you see some common threads.

Yes, 90% of girls feel justified in taking advantage of a foreigner, that they have "excess" they can afford to part with.

I would also say that if you date a woman in any country with a college degree (or Master's), a car, her own job and apartment....you're MUCH LESS likely to ever have any problems, period. Of course, many of these women would never want/need a farang in the first place.

I have been in the same place a couple of times before, that blinding physical attachment/desire/need that's irrational and emotion-driven. It's not good to be so cynical that you don't trust anyone or believe in the goodness of people, either. You have to find a comfort zone in the middle...wary optimism!

I've certainly made mistakes, and many of them. I married a Russian model (she was barely 21, I was 33 at the time, only marriage) simply because she was beautiful...but I should have seen all the signs that we weren't compatible at all, and it doesn't matter your education (I have two Master's, I read earlier about a psychologist as well who was "duped" by a woman), sometimes the smarter you are (or think you are!), the worse your relationships end up.

Now I have a wonderful g/f I met in the Philippines while I was teaching. I have some obvious concerns....she is 23 and I am 39 (it's the 15 year rule violation, never date someone more than 15 years younger than you!), but my justification/rationalization is that women there mature more quickly!! Actually, she graduated at 17, has about 60% of her Master's degree in Education and has been working/teaching for 3+ years already, not the same as an American/European recent college grad at that age.

The crazy part is I'm still married (separated for 3 years now, long story there)...and I met my g/f when I was living with another Filipina (and her son) and my g/f had a fiance in the US, so that's not the ideal way to begin a relationship, in terms of the trust factor. Her fiance in the US was sending monthly support, spending money on her family to have a vacation together, diamond ring, ATM card, the whole nine yards. Yet she decided not to marry him last September...which happened 2-3 months after I'd left the Philippines for Thailand (to teach at a university here). So she didn't NOT get married to be with me, as she didn't even know if we would even talk again.

At any rate, all these stories usually start out, "I've read all the stories..." "My g/f is different...she really loves me...she never asks for money."

I've been around all kinds of girls in all of these countries, and the most expensive ones are the ones who don't work in bars, lol. The bar girls/waitresses are the easiest to understand, if you know how to play their game and don't take things too seriously. You can understand their agenda easily. And yes, the odds are 1/100. With "regular/normal" girls, the odds go up to about 15-25%, but some of the worst stories are from the men blindsided by girls NOT working in bars, because they make the often erroneous assumptions these girls are much less dangerous than bar or chat girls and get lulled into a false sense of security. In actuality, it's quite amusing/entertaining to see all the tricks and subterfuges that girls use to get fools to part with their money, and I can say that ANYONE can be tricked/fooled once or twice, no matter how vigilant and careful you are. It's learning from those expensive lessons and moving on that will define you.

[GungaDin]

She is a player. Both guys have been played.

The problem is that guys in this situation rarely listen to advice, no matter how well intended the advice is.

I am to blame for ignoring the signs and advice I read on this board and elsewhere. I hope this thread will assist the other guy to make his decision rationally and maybe also assist others in not making the same mistake I made.

The heart ruled the head.

A standing cock has no concience

Ahhh, Binnsy, you certainly have a way with words.

[caulfield2]

One line I haven't seen here....upon reflection, and it bears repeating.

"Once a cheater, always a cheater." Can any girl reform? Can she live a good/decent/honest/caring life and put the past behind her? Of course, but it will never be easy to forget the past, to truly trust someone from that environment/background, and that's living together with a person. I can't imagine it working from a LD perspective, if you are an insecure/jealous/controlling/possessive person.

In fact, if you really want to win a girl like that, you have to be like they are...having many girlfriends (being a mariposa or jao-shu/jao-chu), making the girl feel that you have many options and that she's lucky to have you, lol! Instead men fixate on one woman (usually a beautiful one with many suitors) and then they become totally engaged in winning the competition, only to realize they're not so happy with their prize in the end. It seems like normal/average/"good" girls are not usually interesting or challenging. Men want to "conquer" the best coyote dancer or most beautiful girl...when the odds would exponentially increase with someone more suitable/compatible in terms of age/appearance/background.

Just my further 2 cents.

[caulfield2]

She is a player. Both guys have been played.

The problem is that guys in this situation rarely listen to advice, no matter how well intended the advice is.

I am to blame for ignoring the signs and advice I read on this board and elsewhere. I hope this thread will assist the other guy to make his decision rationally and maybe also assist others in not making the same mistake I made.

The heart ruled the head.

A standing cock has no concience

Ahhh, Binnsy, you certainly have a way with words.

There's certainly a lot of truth to that, in the moment of chase/pursuit. But there's inevitably reality to intrude after sex...what in God's name do you actually have in common with this girl? Can you communicate or share anything? I would argue that most men who chase after bar girls are pretty lonely/empty inside, just like the girls are...except more of the girls medicate themselves with drugs and alcohol to make dealing with it more tolerable.

That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of reasons for dodging/avoiding the emotional commitment of being with just one regular girlfriend or even getting married....and marriage/children certainly isn't for everyone.

Bargirls/waitresses are okay...if you keep your wits about you and stay in control of them (back to the "He who has the gold makes the rules" maxim)...it's when you allow yourself to be controlled or manipulated that trouble awaits.

[jayjayjayjay]

snip

Thanks

bajaman, let him ride it out. You've made the right move to protect yourself, step out of her/and his life. Do not maintain a friendship with her as she DOES not deserve it! Sorry but that's the hand she played herself. Learn some Thai, there's 95% of the population of Thai girls out there that dont work in bars and cant speak English that are as lovely as any you'll find anywhere. All issues of relationships good and bad will be experienced here, what you don't need are girls that are well practised in the game (ie the bar girl syndrome where farangs=ATM). There are good ones in the bar scene as a few TV guys know, but how many chances do you want to take! Find yourself a lovely government worker, shop assistant or nurse upcountry. Forget the couple you had the misfortune to be connected with......... good luck.

[Samuian]

Thanks for replying and changing your font so I could see it. The only advise is "Walk Out!". There are no contracts. I've met several guys like that. I lived in the district. Buy me a couple of beers and I will give you the girl's entire bio (and real age!) The majority of the guys still didn't back out. I did everything to warn them. One guy I know still got one woman pregnant twice and another one thought life wasn't worth living anymore. And this was after I already warned them about the specific woman they were with.

This other guy had already gotten your help and still won't back away. You've done your part. Now find a new TGF.

Yes, not too sure what happened with the font. I did the reply in 'word' then did a C and P so I stuffed up somewhere.

Comments are appreciated, all good advice

Posters on this forum tend to appear a little harsh at times , or even descending , some of us even come across as inane , but can I express something , take the whole picture as a collage , there is a wide divergance of thoughts and opinions , somewhere in the midst of all this seeming confusion and contradictory dialogue(Diatribe) , there is some form of sense that fits a given situation , but if you read between the lines , most comments seem to converge on a common denominator , use this to your particular advantage .

"pussy magnet" not any other phrase or explanation, no scientific or psychological briefing could make any clearer what the OP's (and many other peoples) problem really is - it's the "magic pussy magnet"!

ONLY if one ever manages to pull HIMSELF away from it - he might be able to stick to the "golden rule": "Who has the gold/dosh makes the rules" - it's as simple as that, everything else is only self pity and rule of the "little head"!

and regarding the girl - I would RUN - on her side is ONLY greed - money, money, money, money, money, money, money...

"The eye of greed is a cave that all precious goods, all gold and money of the world will never fill"

Edited January 26, 2009 by Samuian

[jayjayjayjay]

Have a good laff because most likely other gullible lads ensnared in her web. I seriously doubt she is sticking to just one now - too much dosh to be had.

Well said Maveric , OP , take a good look in the mirror and repeat daily "Mirror mirror on the wall , who is the most stupid of them all , and why am I ? " . As long as you are a gullible nitwit , you will continue your trip into the meaow trap , admit defeat and move on .

Dumball, so far you have made a number of inane comments on this thread which are neither helpful nor accurate. If you read the original post you will see that I have admited defeat and moved on. Some emotion is involved in this given the timing. This thread is not about me, it is about helping the other guy and saving others from making the same mistakes.

If you have nothing sensible to add I suggest you find somewhere else to post your comments.

The response I was gonna give was already given (move on and worry about yourself) but you haven't.

When I was in Thailand I lived in several red light districts and I was the one writing e-mails and text messages for the bargirls writing the sob stories getting free food and drinks as a reward. I've also seen over 100 relationships and 30 marriages from start to finish. I knew women getting money from 4 guys at once. It's all a game and learn to play it. Move on to a better woman that has never worked in a bar. There is a Bangkok rule about not informing guys that they are being screwed over...maybe they like it.

I must say you speak from high moral ground. Your now a pro-Korea poster, anti-Thai. I just realised that your posts are pretty much a waste of time given your admissions here. I hope you are being a little more constructive in Korea than writing ghost emails to farangs for working girls for payment of free meals............... god, what a waste!

[redscouse]

what is it with people having lengthy relationships with bar girls? why would anyone want to be with a woman who has been with more dick than mrs van dyke, it always confuses me, the question is whether any of you would marry a whore in your home country, because at the end of the day gents thats what bar girls are, common whores with elsewhere to stand than street corners.

There are many women in thailand that have not been whores and just being in the right places alows you to meet them, and when i say right places i am not talking about bars. i appreciate bars play a large part in the lives of some expats here and in bars you meet bar people, get out of the bars and meet women elsewhere. Any woman asking for money needs to be steered well away from.

[sushi5734]

If you are looking to meet the girl of your dreams in the girly bars bar of Pattaya, bangkok and Phuket, then to be quite frank you are deluded!!!!! Yep I am sure that once in a blue moon some guy finds his soulmate in a bar on Soi Cowboy but come on lets face it its not very likely is it?!

There are so many normal Thai girls out there who you can have a normal realtionship with, Many Thai women do see Farang guys as an attractive prospect for the following very generalised reasons;

• Alot of Thai guys treat women like sh!t with mistress's, domestic violence, lazy etc. (so do some farangs!!)
  
• They find various farang physical features more attractive nose, eyes, whiter skin etc.
  
• Financial stability + better lifestyle.
  
• Many hard working Thai women will end up with a leech of a boyfreind.
  
• Most farangs don't expect them to be a live in slave.
  
• Half thai, half farang people (Luk Krung Thai?) are seen as very attractive by Thai's (look how many TV stars pop stars are half thai!!!!!) so the prospect of a Luk Krung baby at some point in the future is very very desirable.
  
• Farangs are generally more outgoing and confident.
  
• Farangs are generally more ambitious.
  

But that doesn't mean that if you're 50-60 years old and carrying a few extra pounds that you're then you're going to be able to pull a stunning supermodel in her early 20's!!! You get to play a division or two higher than you might do back home but not defy the laws of nature!!!!

It is much harder to find and date a normal Thai girl and don't expect any sex for quite some time!! in fact you will more than likly have a chapperone for a month or two!! but most guys have no patience or are too lazy to put the effort in and end up with someone who sees them as nothing more than a walking wallet!

Don't get me wrong plenty of guys who go out with normal girls get stung, because many Thai people see a farang and get big $$ signs in thier eyes (particulary the family....whole new topic lol) but if you go find someone who is educated, hard working, financially independant then you are better placed to avoid being fleeced by a gold digger!! I wouldn't even consider going out with a girl thats driven through Pattaya let alone worked as a bar girl there!!

You need to ask yourself the following as if this were a girl back home you were thinking about starting a relationship with;

• would you be happy with her sleeping with or having slept with alot of other guys?
  
• would you expect to be sending her money every month?
  
• would you expect her to tell you she loves you within a few hours?!!!
  
• Is she too lazy to work and you are just a means of financial support?
  
• Spend more time at the mall buying her shoes than in each other arms?!!!
  

Jesus man if any girl asks you for an ATM card for her monthly allowance then <deleted> run a million miles!!!

At the end of the day these girls are paid for sex and have had more hanging meat than a butchers shop window, if you are happy with that then fine, fill yer boots but please don't be surprised when you find out that she's got several other guys on the go!! Just accept it for what it is......... money for sex and companionship! These girls will tell you everything you want to here and they are well versed in deceiving farangs. The Thai guys don't seem to have a problem accepting this and a large proportion of the the guys will have a kik (girl on the side) at some Kareoke or Coyote bar. If you want to have a bar girl as your regular Friday night thing or something like that then you shouldn't have to many problems, you just make it clear from the start and you should have no problems, she will probably still say she loves you after 5 mins!!

If the bar girl scene if your thing then go for it, have a good laugh with the girls but don't go looking for love.......just accept it for what is!!

A fool and his money soon part company!!

[ryladie99]

I am asking for some reasonable comments for a situation which happens time and time again and one I have myself, fallen into. As you will see however, the advice is not for myself.

Background - In early 2007 I met a Thai girl from Isaan when visiting Thailand. Yes, she worked in a bar, behind the bar and pretty well ran the place but all the same, she worked in a bar. We corresponded after the event and of course a relationship grew. I have been to visit her again and we kept in daily contact through phone, sms, email. I was moving towards a position of being able to build on the relationship because my own marriage was at an end so I was effectively free to do as I wished. We talked often of the future and of course I sent her the obligatory ATM card for access to funds to help her and her family. I was constantly assured that she had no other person in her life as a relationship partner, and if she ever did, that she would tell me and we could part company.

I spent two or three weeks staying with her in her apartment getting to know her even better and we travelled a bit around Thailand. Whilst I had my suspicions of someone else in the background at times, I took her word that she was totally honest and would at least tell me the truth about this.

The problem I had was that my business and main source of income was in another country and I was certainly not wealthy enough to support her if I left my business. We looked at opportunities of a business in Thailand and this was a possibility. She said that she would be prepared to live part of her life in my country but of course needed to support her own family.

We were working well towards this and towards the end of last year things were stating to take shape.

I followed this forum a lot and in doing so many alarm bells rang. She spent a lot of time with her brother, phone turned off many times, disappeared for days on end and of course when I asked pointed questions, I always got the standard answer of "Don't think too much'.

It is true that in the back of my mind I always felt something was wrong but i chose to not believe it.

Just prior to Christmas I received an email from her with some photos. The problem was that the email was one that had previously been sent to another guy with the same photos. Cutting a long story short, it turned out that she had this guy in exactly the same position as me since before I had met her and was running at least two of us.

I discussed this and she of course had to come clean to some degree and I ended the relationship as it was, but agreed to retain the friendship. I further agreed to not make contact with the other guy. I felt it was not my place to do so and seriously wanted her to be happy.

About four weeks later I got an email from the other guy. He had apparently already discovered about me some months ago by finding one of my printed e-mails in her apparement. He had asked her about this and she had told him that the relaitonship with me was over and he had nothing to worry about.

the guy is a very reasonable guy and made contact with me to ask me to help him by not making further contact with her. He stated he loves her and wants to try and put all of this behind him and move on. He has asked me some detail which i am happy to give but the problem is that anything I say in relation to advising him on future protection will seem like sour grapes or a desire to hurt their relationship.

He is currently hurting very badly, as of course am I but at least I have made my decision and walked away. He intends to stay the course. I have advised him to make decisions with his head and not with his heart, but I thought that if I posted this message on here there may be some independant advice which would follow and I can point him to the thread. I really want to help this guy to make the right decision, whatever that may be.

At least then he can make his own mind up with the benefit of decent informaiton rather than simpy following his heart and maybe getting it wrong.

It is possible of course that once she has a man in her life 100%, she will change. The fact that she ran a least two of us may just be her method of fishing, place a few hooks out, play with the fish and take any that truly bite. If this is so, he may have a wonderful life ahead with her. My experience through reading this board says otherwise.

I am happy to add informtion if it is needed to clarify any points.

Thanks

Hello

I am so happy that you are bright and mature. You walked off without a broken heart. Interesting that you are nice to help out. Cheer?? My advice as such let him be and she will run him off by dating a new guy at the same time. My experience tells me that she never changes and all she wants is Money and taking advantage of Farang...My opinion and I take a stance...

[Bjamie]

Unfortunately, people will contort their instincts and belief systems into all manner of knots in order to sustain a fantasy.

This is so true, fantasy or dream. We make allowances and adjustments we would not normally make. Thank you

Couldn't agree more!

[CharlieB]

You can tell this guy the truth and send him here, but the chances of him taking any notice are zero. He's already proved he's a doormat and will accept the fact that he has been one of many. He's in too deep and even though he must have some doubts, he's always going to come up with reasons in his own mind to stay with her and accept her excuses and lies. I doubt you two are the only ones. If she asked you for an ATM card, worked behind the bar and practically ran the place, then she's obviously a career bargirl.

I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't have 4 or 5 guys besides you and this other bloke. This has led to her downfall as she made the mistake of forwarding on an email to you. Must be tough having to keep track of who's who and what has been sent to who.

I also agree with britmaveric in post 54. Yes, be wary of bargirls, but not all of them are hardened pros. Some of them are there just to support family/children back home and others are there to meet a farang for a serious relationship. I know a couple of people who have married ex-bargirls and are still quite happily married. Not all women working in bars are the same. If you know the dangers and can draw an emotional line under things when they go bad as you have, then you will be ok.

I have a friend who was introduced to a receptionist at a hotel by the gf of another friend. This was a girl who had never been with a farang before, never even been in a bar before and by the definitions of a lot of people on this forum, a good girl. She took him to the cleaners and despite myself and my other friend seeing the signs and warning him, he made all the excuses in the world to believe her. God knows how much money she got off him. She dumped him in the end, but not before getting one last chunk of money, which was enough by all accounts for her to turn up at the hotel next day on a new motorbike, with her Thai boyfriend.

[venturalaw]

I am asking for some reasonable comments for a situation which happens time and time again and one I have myself, fallen into. As you will see however, the advice is not for myself.

Background - In early 2007 I met a Thai girl from Isaan when visiting Thailand. Yes, she worked in a bar, behind the bar and pretty well ran the place but all the same, she worked in a bar. We corresponded after the event and of course a relationship grew. I have been to visit her again and we kept in daily contact through phone, sms, email. I was moving towards a position of being able to build on the relationship because my own marriage was at an end so I was effectively free to do as I wished. We talked often of the future and of course I sent her the obligatory ATM card for access to funds to help her and her family. I was constantly assured that she had no other person in her life as a relationship partner, and if she ever did, that she would tell me and we could part company.

I spent two or three weeks staying with her in her apartment getting to know her even better and we travelled a bit around Thailand. Whilst I had my suspicions of someone else in the background at times, I took her word that she was totally honest and would at least tell me the truth about this.

The problem I had was that my business and main source of income was in another country and I was certainly not wealthy enough to support her if I left my business. We looked at opportunities of a business in Thailand and this was a possibility. She said that she would be prepared to live part of her life in my country but of course needed to support her own family.

We were working well towards this and towards the end of last year things were stating to take shape.

I followed this forum a lot and in doing so many alarm bells rang. She spent a lot of time with her brother, phone turned off many times, disappeared for days on end and of course when I asked pointed questions, I always got the standard answer of "Don't think too much'.

It is true that in the back of my mind I always felt something was wrong but i chose to not believe it.

Just prior to Christmas I received an email from her with some photos. The problem was that the email was one that had previously been sent to another guy with the same photos. Cutting a long story short, it turned out that she had this guy in exactly the same position as me since before I had met her and was running at least two of us.

I discussed this and she of course had to come clean to some degree and I ended the relationship as it was, but agreed to retain the friendship. I further agreed to not make contact with the other guy. I felt it was not my place to do so and seriously wanted her to be happy.

About four weeks later I got an email from the other guy. He had apparently already discovered about me some months ago by finding one of my printed e-mails in her apparement. He had asked her about this and she had told him that the relaitonship with me was over and he had nothing to worry about.

the guy is a very reasonable guy and made contact with me to ask me to help him by not making further contact with her. He stated he loves her and wants to try and put all of this behind him and move on. He has asked me some detail which i am happy to give but the problem is that anything I say in relation to advising him on future protection will seem like sour grapes or a desire to hurt their relationship.

He is currently hurting very badly, as of course am I but at least I have made my decision and walked away. He intends to stay the course. I have advised him to make decisions with his head and not with his heart, but I thought that if I posted this message on here there may be some independant advice which would follow and I can point him to the thread. I really want to help this guy to make the right decision, whatever that may be.

At least then he can make his own mind up with the benefit of decent informaiton rather than simpy following his heart and maybe getting it wrong.

It is possible of course that once she has a man in her life 100%, she will change. The fact that she ran a least two of us may just be her method of fishing, place a few hooks out, play with the fish and take any that truly bite. If this is so, he may have a wonderful life ahead with her. My experience through reading this board says otherwise.

I am happy to add informtion if it is needed to clarify any points.

Thanks

I really have to ask - Why would you want a friendship with a person (man or woman) that you know lied to you? First, a true friendship with anyone who lies is impossible. But more importantly, and I don't mean to sound cruel, are you so desperate to have companionship that you have decided to continue a relationship as a 'friend', based upon a history of being taken, with one who is nothing more than an accomplished whore?

[Stormyn]

Walk away and don't look back.

There are a thousands more willing to take her place and with any luck you may find an honest one.

Cheers

[Socratis]

All the foregoing advice has been spot on...particularly the poignant reminder that you can take a girl out of the bar but not vice versa.

....<deleted>.... The point I wish to make is this: that even when you marry or begin a relationship with even a good Thai woman, you marry far more than the lady herself. You marry all the emotional baggage she brings along with her. Her family, her friends, her debts, her habits and so forth. They all pre-existed you and the girl has these loyalties that she must fulfill.

.... . But deep in the psyche of any Thai woman she will make sure to take care of her original family and does this at the expense of herself and of her husband if it comes to that. It is a deeper, more profound relationship than we Farang husbands generally fathom. They also believe in the 'gilded cage' metaphor--and have to build a golden cage around themselves to properly satisfy their many obligations in life. The Farang husband is included, but is not the center of her attentions in this regard. Finally, if you have ever studied Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs theory, you can best undertand how most Thai (and Oriental) women think and how they are motivated. Unlike Western women, their Asian sisters never reach the 'Self-Actualization" level--the top-most in Maslow's pyramid. They are always scrambling to fulfill more fundamental needs--shelter, food, water, clothing and such...and once they have met these goals for themselves, then take on a mission to assist their family and friends attain the same levels of comfort. This is what you deal with in building a relationship with a Thai woman, and the process is arcane and complex. They truly love you along the way, but at the same time use you as well, as it is your endless source of funds which enable their growth and upward movement in the Maslow structure.

As others have suggested, find a better candidate to share your dreams and emotions with...believe me they are out there! There are bar girls who could become an ideal mate, but in most cases they have inculcated a set of values that will not endure in marriage.

Good luck!

'Fore Man', very well said. As a 50+ Thai male who has been in close contact with a number of Thai gals, bar gals and otherwise, I fully support your opinion. Thai women who are little educated and from a poor family background will have all the emotional baggage strongly attached to them. But it could be quite different with the educated ones who are from the better to do family. While a bar gal can be different, I must say that most Thai women were born with integrity and strongly believe in the teaching of Buddhism. But being a bar gal for a long time can change their sense of right and wrong quite dramatically.

[Socratis]

There's at least 3 Thai ladies in our village running several Farangs at the same time, probably the same in every village in this green and pleasant land. It seems perfectly acceptable to this society and I think its actively encouraged and out in the open. ...<deleted>...

No, it's not perfectly acceptable to this society. As a Thai, I strongly object to this statement! Certain actions may be more acceptable among certain people and can be done more openly among those people. But that doesn't mean that they are acceptable by all.

[henryalleman]

As long that men think with their penis, we will hear stories like that. And it don't have to be by a bar girl , and not exclusively in Thailand. Cases liked that happening with Russian, Polish women, or even with the women back home.

How many million of men in the West are not took to the cleaners by there Western girlfriends or wife every year.

It is normal, if you put the cat near the milk she will drink it. Those guy's will not be so called victim, if they use a little bit common sense.

I don't like to be pedantic but men should realise one thing. A women uses her brain and is 10 times more rational than a man who in most cases only think with his penis and his hormones .

Why women are in general less competitive than men; Simply because they now its futile to do like that, there are other way's to get your goal.

Don't forget a tiger is a very beautiful animal but its remains an wild untamed beast, and can always kill you when you loose one minute of your attention. Women are not much different.

Women are like a whirlwind, when you look at it from a far its fascinating, and you keep on looking, even when you know the danger involved, when you are in the middle of it you are all shook up till you don't even know the difference between North and South anymore, and when its passed already you've lost your house and car. Because against any better judgement they simply refuse to see the obvious.

And as long there are some men keep behaving like idiots and forget to use their brain instead of their penis we will keep hear this kind of stories over and over again, simply because they like to be cheated.

[henryalleman]

All the foregoing advice has been spot on...particularly the poignant reminder that you can take a girl out of the bar but not vice versa.

I married a lady 11 years ago and took her to the USA to live for 5 years, then returned to LOS to retire here. My wife was a hotel sales manager when I met her, and proved to be a woman of great moral integrity. But she is as someone remarked, among the 5% of Thai women who will not resort to trickery to keep a wealthy farang dancing on their hooks. The point I wish to make is this: that even when you marry or begin a relationship with even a good Thai woman, you marry far more than the lady herself. You marry all the emotional baggage she brings along with her. Her family, her friends, her debts, her habits and so forth. They all pre-existed you and the girl has these loyalties that she must fulfill.

So when you relate to a Thai lady, my advice is that you make sure you do this open-eyed and understand the extent of that additional baggage. This introspection will show you if you truly love the lass or are marrying her for for any other reasons. Thai women believe in the "heart with four rooms' metaphor--they have 'rooms' set aside to love themselves, their husbands, their mothers and fathers, and their children. And they manage to meet all of these obligations. But deep in the psyche of any Thai woman she will make sure to take care of her original family and does this at the expense of herself and of her husband if it comes to that. It is a deeper, more profound relationship than we Farang husbands generally fathom. They also believe in the 'gilded cage' metaphor--and have to build a golden cage around themselves to properly satisfy their many obligations in life. The Farang husband is included, but is not the center of her attentions in this regard. Finally, if you have ever studied Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs theory, you can best undertand how most Thai (and Oriental) women think and how they are motivated. Unlike Western women, their Asian sisters never reach the 'Self-Actualization" level--the top-most in Maslow's pyramid. They are always scrambling to fulfill more fundamental needs--shelter, food, water, clothing and such...and once they have met these goals for themselves, then take on a mission to assist their family and friends attain the same levels of comfort. This is what you deal with in building a relationship with a Thai woman, and the process is arcane and complex. They truly love you along the way, but at the same time use you as well, as it is your endless source of funds which enable their growth and upward movement in the Maslow structure.

As others have suggested, find a better candidate to share your dreams and emotions with...believe me they are out there! There are bar girls who could become an ideal mate, but in most cases they have inculcated a set of values that will not endure in marriage.

Good luck!

You seems to be a man who have the knowledge and understanding of Asian culture, you pointed it out perfectly. Could not explain it in a better way

[henryalleman]

As long that men think with their penis, we will hear stories like that. And it don't have to be by a bar girl , and not exclusively in Thailand. Cases liked that happening with Russian, Polish women, or even with the women back home.

How many million of men in the West are not took to the cleaners by there Western girlfriends or wife every year.

It is normal, if you put the cat near the milk she will drink it. Those guy's will not be so called victim, if they use a little bit common sense.

I don't like to be pedantic but men should realise one thing. A women uses her brain and is 10 times more rational than a man who in most cases only think with his penis and his hormones .

Why women are in general less competitive than men; Simply because they now its futile to do like that, there are other way's to get your goal.

Don't forget a tiger is a very beautiful animal but its remains an wild untamed beast, and can always kill you when you loose one minute of your attention. Women are not much different.

Women are like a whirlwind, when you look at it from a far its fascinating, and you keep on looking, even when you know the danger involved, when you are in the middle of it you are all shook up till you don't even know the difference between North and South anymore, and when its passed already you've lost your house and car. Because against any better judgement they simply refuse to see the obvious.

And as long there are some men keep behaving like idiots and forget to use their brain instead of their penis we will keep hear this kind of stories over and over again, simply because they like to be cheated.

Forgot to mention.

I have a few Thai female friends in the real sense of the word. Friends I know I can count on and they proved it in the past, hard working women.They are real wonderful mates. We sometimes don't see each other for months but we have a genuine friendship for more than 20 years. They are one of the few people I like to hit the town with on an all night out clubbing. From one of them I'm even the godfather of her son, wonderful lady.

So when I hear that some guys talking about that all Thai women are gold diggers I can't agree with, because I know not all of them are like that.

I do wonder how many of the complainers have a genuine non sexual friendship or relationship with Thai women? They don't know what they are missing.

[venturalaw]

There's at least 3 Thai ladies in our village running several Farangs at the same time, probably the same in every village in this green and pleasant land. It seems perfectly acceptable to this society and I think its actively encouraged and out in the open. ...<deleted>...

No, it's not perfectly acceptable to this society. As a Thai, I strongly object to this statement! Certain actions may be more acceptable among certain people and can be done more openly among those people. But that doesn't mean that they are acceptable by all.

I agree. My Thai wife looks down upon women who lie, cheat and/or are looking for money only. She feels the same shame as I feel toward men that use women, making promises, and then move on. They exist in all cultures, people.

Regarding the previous comments:

"The point I wish to make is this: that even when you marry or begin a relationship with even a good Thai woman, you marry far more than the lady herself. You marry all the emotional baggage she brings along with her. Her family, her friends, her debts, her habits and so forth. They all pre-existed you and the girl has these loyalties that she must fulfill.

.... . But deep in the psyche of any Thai woman she will make sure to take care of her original family and does this at the expense of herself and of her husband if it comes to that. It is a deeper, more profound relationship than we Farang husbands generally fathom. They also believe in the 'gilded cage' metaphor--and have to build a golden cage around themselves to properly satisfy their many obligations in life."

This is true for many, but certainly not for all. I have met independent Thai women (my wife as one) who, while they feel close and a love for their families, they have been on their own since leaving home for college, and have a relationship with their families that is similar to that one would call normal in the Western culture. In other words, no sending money home to the family, just saving and exercising frugality for OUR family's future.

Edited January 27, 2009 by venturalaw

[wamberal]

This is true for many, but certainly not for all. I have met independent Thai women (my wife as one) who, while they feel close and a love for their families, they have been on their own since leaving home for college, and have a relationship with their families that is similar to that one would call normal in the Western culture. In other words, no sending money home to the family, just saving and exercising frugality for OUR family's future.

Most western countries have some kind of safety net to look after people financially, and in other ways, when they are too old to look after themselves.

Most Asian countries, particularly Thailand, do not have this kind of safety net - good people, particularly women, who "feel close to and love their families" are fully prepared to help their parents out if and when they need help in their old age.

Are you saying that your wife will turn her back on her parents if they need her help later in life? With all due respect, I am glad to have married a Thai woman who feels genuine love for her family, love which includes helping them if they need help.

[laphroaig]

This is true for many, but certainly not for all. I have met independent Thai women (my wife as one) who, while they feel close and a love for their families, they have been on their own since leaving home for college, and have a relationship with their families that is similar to that one would call normal in the Western culture. In other words, no sending money home to the family, just saving and exercising frugality for OUR family's future.

Most western countries have some kind of safety net to look after people financially, and in other ways, when they are too old to look after themselves.

Most Asian countries, particularly Thailand, do not have this kind of safety net - good people, particularly women, who "feel close to and love their families" are fully prepared to help their parents out if and when they need help in their old age.

Are you saying that your wife will turn her back on her parents if they need her help later in life? With all due respect, I am glad to have married a Thai woman who feels genuine love for her family, love which includes helping them if they need help.

I think this point could be at risk of being mis interpreted.

As I see it, and from my own lifes experience, the general expectation for western families is that the parents bring up the children but also have sufficient to look after themselves. If they do not have sufficient, normally the children would support the parents in older age or in times of difficulty. There is however no fixed expectation.

What I have understood about Thai culture, or maybe part of Thai culture is that there is an expectaiton from birth that the children will look after the parents and it is their duty to 'give back the love'.

What is expected and what we do are two very different issues. The above points are very general and I am sure that many will educate me on the finer points but in general terms I think I am somewhere near understanding the fundamental differences in culture.

[dinthailand]

All the foregoing advice has been spot on...particularly the poignant reminder that you can take a girl out of the bar but not vice versa.

I married a lady 11 years ago and took her to the USA to live for 5 years, then returned to LOS to retire here. My wife was a hotel sales manager when I met her, and proved to be a woman of great moral integrity. But she is as someone remarked, among the 5% of Thai women who will not resort to trickery to keep a wealthy farang dancing on their hooks. The point I wish to make is this: that even when you marry or begin a relationship with even a good Thai woman, you marry far more than the lady herself. You marry all the emotional baggage she brings along with her. Her family, her friends, her debts, her habits and so forth. They all pre-existed you and the girl has these loyalties that she must fulfill.

So when you relate to a Thai lady, my advice is that you make sure you do this open-eyed and understand the extent of that additional baggage. This introspection will show you if you truly love the lass or are marrying her for for any other reasons. Thai women believe in the "heart with four rooms' metaphor--they have 'rooms' set aside to love themselves, their husbands, their mothers and fathers, and their children. And they manage to meet all of these obligations. But deep in the psyche of any Thai woman she will make sure to take care of her original family and does this at the expense of herself and of her husband if it comes to that. It is a deeper, more profound relationship than we Farang husbands generally fathom. They also believe in the 'gilded cage' metaphor--and have to build a golden cage around themselves to properly satisfy their many obligations in life. The Farang husband is included, but is not the center of her attentions in this regard. Finally, if you have ever studied Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs theory, you can best undertand how most Thai (and Oriental) women think and how they are motivated. Unlike Western women, their Asian sisters never reach the 'Self-Actualization" level--the top-most in Maslow's pyramid. They are always scrambling to fulfill more fundamental needs--shelter, food, water, clothing and such...and once they have met these goals for themselves, then take on a mission to assist their family and friends attain the same levels of comfort. This is what you deal with in building a relationship with a Thai woman, and the process is arcane and complex. They truly love you along the way, but at the same time use you as well, as it is your endless source of funds which enable their growth and upward movement in the Maslow structure.

As others have suggested, find a better candidate to share your dreams and emotions with...believe me they are out there! There are bar girls who could become an ideal mate, but in most cases they have inculcated a set of values that will not endure in marriage.

Good luck!

You seems to be a man who have the knowledge and understanding of Asian culture, you pointed it out perfectly. Could not explain it in a better way

seconded. good post

[dinthailand]

This is true for many, but certainly not for all. I have met independent Thai women (my wife as one) who, while they feel close and a love for their families, they have been on their own since leaving home for college, and have a relationship with their families that is similar to that one would call normal in the Western culture. In other words, no sending money home to the family, just saving and exercising frugality for OUR family's future.

Most western countries have some kind of safety net to look after people financially, and in other ways, when they are too old to look after themselves.

Most Asian countries, particularly Thailand, do not have this kind of safety net - good people, particularly women, who "feel close to and love their families" are fully prepared to help their parents out if and when they need help in their old age.

Are you saying that your wife will turn her back on her parents if they need her help later in life? With all due respect, I am glad to have married a Thai woman who feels genuine love for her family, love which includes helping them if they need help.

it is surely a matter of degree. yes help the family but but not to the exclusion of one's more immediate family. this argument comes up frequently because of the sick buffalo stories

[BigSnake]

This is a very common thing, with the Thai Bar girls, mainly because they are GREEDY and INSECURE. They want to make sure they will not be high dry next month, it is a tough world for the bar girls, however that is no excuse for playing two guys, cheating, etc. May I suggest count your blessings(good job/good health,young(?)) and move on. Trust and believe that there are some wonderful Thai ladies out there, that will make a great life partner. "SEEK AND YE SHELL FIND"

Edited January 27, 2009 by BigSnake

[Shotime]

The emotions involved with this type of situation prevent anyone from listening to advise. A lot of men can't accept that they are being played. The girls understand this. The girls can, and sometimes do on purpose, put it right in their "man's" face, and he still won't believe it. You can do the same thing with them. It's a zen thing.

[sbk]

Posts have been deleted, no bickering on the forum please.

[losworld]

Do not underestimate the bar girls. They are closely knit veterans of the game of money for sex. They are almost intuitive in their ability to find

etc....

P.S. Some of these girls are great actors. Academy award material.

This is the best post that I have read all day on this topic !

Spot on mate!

May I ask where you are from?

Born and raised in Canada (eh) and now residing in Los Angeles (unless I move to LOS). Currently on number four vacation to Thailand. In Phuket then off to KK and CM to visit friends. Cheers.

[losworld]

One line I haven't seen here....upon reflection, and it bears repeating.

"Once a cheater, always a cheater." Can any girl reform? Can she live a good/decent/honest/caring life and put the past behind her? Of course, but it will never be easy to forget the past, to truly trust someone from that environment/background, and that's living together with a person. I can't imagine it working from a LD perspective, if you are an insecure/jealous/controlling/possessive person.

In fact, if you really want to win a girl like that, you have to be like they are...having many girlfriends (being a mariposa or jao-shu/jao-chu), making the girl feel that you have many options and that she's lucky to have you, lol! Instead men fixate on one woman (usually a beautiful one with many suitors) and then they become totally engaged in winning the competition, only to realize they're not so happy with their prize in the end. It seems like normal/average/"good" girls are not usually interesting or challenging. Men want to "conquer" the best coyote dancer or most beautiful girl...when the odds would exponentially increase with someone more suitable/compatible in terms of age/appearance/background.

Just my further 2 cents.

Great couple of posts. I do understand the attraction with many of the bar girls. These attractive young women appear to be easy going, fun, and non spoiled which contrasts not only with the age of the older men but also their resentment with many materialist, shopaholic, overweight and aging women many see as options in their own country. Now don't get me wrong there's a lot of diamonds in the rough in many of these countries but its the society and the economic vice we live in that has resulted in increased expectations and decreased happiness and that is why many are here in Thailand looking for "something else". I also get the impression the upper middle class girls could be very materialistic little princesses. Correct me if I am wrong but I've dated southeast Asian women in CA from wealthy Chinese families and the word princess needs to be replaced with "empress". I broke up with a woman from Indonesia when she insisted that the ring be from "Tiffany" in Bev Hills after I just paid for the two hundred dollar dinner at Mr. Chow's. This was our second and last breakup. The previous breakup was when I suprisingly showed up at LAX to pick her up from her flight and she walked out from the gate into the arms of another man. Great comedy as she unknowingly walked past my outstretched arms. Stupidly I took her back after she showed up begging at my door over the next few days. Give your head a shake!