Advice On Common Problem, Thai Farang Relationship

[a3tsw]

To top it off, this guy was a psychiatrist. So if he could not see the truth, then I can understand where many other men can not as well.

:D

[uk2bkk]

All the foregoing advice has been spot on...particularly the poignant reminder that you can take a girl out of the bar but not vice versa.

I married a lady 11 years ago and took her to the USA to live for 5 years, then returned to LOS to retire here. My wife was a hotel sales manager when I met her, and proved to be a woman of great moral integrity. But she is as someone remarked, among the 5% of Thai women who will not resort to trickery to keep a wealthy farang dancing on their hooks. The point I wish to make is this: that even when you marry or begin a relationship with even a good Thai woman, you marry far more than the lady herself. You marry all the emotional baggage she brings along with her. Her family, her friends, her debts, her habits and so forth. They all pre-existed you and the girl has these loyalties that she must fulfill.

So when you relate to a Thai lady, my advice is that you make sure you do this open-eyed and understand the extent of that additional baggage. This introspection will show you if you truly love the lass or are marrying her for for any other reasons. Thai women believe in the "heart with four rooms' metaphor--they have 'rooms' set aside to love themselves, their husbands, their mothers and fathers, and their children. And they manage to meet all of these obligations. But deep in the psyche of any Thai woman she will make sure to take care of her original family and does this at the expense of herself and of her husband if it comes to that. It is a deeper, more profound relationship than we Farang husbands generally fathom. They also believe in the 'gilded cage' metaphor--and have to build a golden cage around themselves to properly satisfy their many obligations in life. The Farang husband is included, but is not the center of her attentions in this regard. Finally, if you have ever studied Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs theory, you can best undertand how most Thai (and Oriental) women think and how they are motivated. Unlike Western women, their Asian sisters never reach the 'Self-Actualization" level--the top-most in Maslow's pyramid. They are always scrambling to fulfill more fundamental needs--shelter, food, water, clothing and such...and once they have met these goals for themselves, then take on a mission to assist their family and friends attain the same levels of comfort. This is what you deal with in building a relationship with a Thai woman, and the process is arcane and complex. They truly love you along the way, but at the same time use you as well, as it is your endless source of funds which enable their growth and upward movement in the Maslow structure.

As others have suggested, find a better candidate to share your dreams and emotions with...believe me they are out there! There are bar girls who could become an ideal mate, but in most cases they have inculcated a set of values that will not endure in marriage.

Good luck!

You seems to be a man who have the knowledge and understanding of Asian culture, you pointed it out perfectly. Could not explain it in a better way

seconded. good post

Concur with this, one of the first things I ever learnt about Asian ladies.

Think about it, would you sit down and play a game of Chess without knowing the rules?

[jubby]

Don't be too Hard on yourself. Learn by your mistake. The Girls probably lovely and sweet , bless her , arn't they all ;-) which is why she can run a couple of Farangs.

She's probably a good provider for the family. I'm convinced these girls don't see any harm in it (Farang Think Too Mut) as its so common.

There doesn't seem to be any shame in it. Its openly discussed in Knoodle shops , Some of them can't get there head around having a loving relationship with a Foreigner. So be it.

Human nature , You want something from Her, She wants something from you.... and also from the other Guy.

I think its the Masai that Keep Cows for milk and also blood. They take all the milk but not all the Blood. They only bleed them dry when they can not provide the Milk.

Finding a decent (by our point of view) Girl is difficult but if I had my turn again I'd keep away from the Exotic flowers and try a daisy.

We need to keep our natural Alarm system activated. Smile the Smile , Its just a big game. I've been screwed in other ways for sure ;-)

Its 'Open Season' on us 12 months a year ;-)

[jubby]

Khun Socratis, Kaw Taut (excuse me I think) ;-)

I said "Seems" to be perfectly acceptable at least in my Village. This is an opinion based on what I see in daily life here, not on what I read from others. Therefore I will stand by my View. I can be a little Blunt and direct and don't posses the Fine Art I associate with Thai Communication Skills.

However, My Wife who is also Khun Thai shares your view that it isn't acceptable but will never or rarely confront it and say so to her fellow Thais.

I see events everyday here which some Thais and I expect you would take offence to, but they never seem to do anything about. Its a Cultural difference it think.

Which is why i'm surprised you take such offence at my words. Would you take such offence at a Thai Citizen ? Directly ?. I'm honestly interested as I'm still learning about this wonderful Country & Its peoples.

Its great to have you with us we don't get a lot of input from Thais on here.

I haven't read 'Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs theory' either but it appears to be spot on.

This Theory fitted my wife well in the past , she changed when we had 'Luk Krung' together and now her world revolves around them.

And I'm sure she's sick & tired of her fathers Gambling, Drinking and won't be too upset when he takes his next journey.

I can come across as a bit sarcastic but my intentions are otherwise.

[UncleFrank]

"Seems" to be perfectly acceptable at least in my Village."

Would they feel different if it was a Thai guy getting scammed I wonder?

Seems to be a prevailing attitude that scamming foreigners is acceptable, no?

[Geekfreaklover]

"Seems" to be perfectly acceptable at least in my Village."

Would they feel different if it was a Thai guy getting scammed I wonder?

Seems to be a prevailing attitude that scamming foreigners is acceptable, no?

Good point.

The way I see is that the rural Isaan folk have been looked down upon by other higher members of the Thai social system for centuries. Now (last 30-40 years), with the advent of cheaper flights etc.. Foreigners have entered the equation. The rural folk have a "race" which they can now look down on, abuse, cheat etc.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Geekfreaklover

[MiG16]

So when I hear that some guys talking about that all Thai women are gold diggers I can't agree with, because I know not all of them are like that.

I do wonder how many of the complainers have a genuine non sexual friendship or relationship with Thai women? They don't know what they are missing.

I will only add that its not only when the relationship is platonic, but also in other cases. But Ive said my piece, and shared cases where Thai women have shown the complete opposite of these generalisations. Obviously, those that want to maintain this view will continue to do so. No point in me saying anything.

But any more discussions of bar girls, insulting general statements about thai women (or other race for that matter), and Im closing this thread. Not going to spend lots and lots of time trying to clean up the thread and removing offensive remarks. (SBK has already done that). So keep that in mind and tread carefully what you say please

[Portl]

I can say with loving kindness to all men who find them in similar situations.... "The cost of your education will be in direct proportion to how fast a learner you are."

Wouldn't that be "The cost of your education will be in inverse proportion..."?

[Miserere]

Private Dancer by Stephen Leather.

Its all there, should be compulsory reading for any bloke comming to Thailand for the first time.

[bobbysan124]

Agree with the general consensus about "reading the writing on the wall." The "friend" in this case has to learn his own lessons, hopefully, before he loses everything.

The scenario here is played out around the world every day by people of the same culture. Thinking with the head is great. Unfortunately, we guys, too often, think with the wrong one.

In too many cases, we're playing these women every bit as much as they're playing us. But, we all have baggage and Thais have to adjust to our backstories and cultural inclinations as much as we to theirs.

Even if we use our intelligence and go all the right places and do all the right things and think we've found "ms. wonderful," doesn't mean it'll work out.

We just have to give ourselves a fighting chance and hope for the best. But, if like the "friend" here, we run into a burning building, we can't wonder why our ass catches on fire.

[monopoly]

As long that men think with their penis, we will hear stories like that. And it don't have to be by a bar girl , and not exclusively in Thailand. Cases liked that happening with Russian, Polish women, or even with the women back ho

Women are like a whirlwind, when you look at it from a far its fascinating, and you keep on looking, even when you know the danger involved, when you are in the middle of it you are all shook up till you don't even know the difference between North and South anymore, and when its passed already you've lost your house and car. Because against any better judgement they simply refuse to see the obvious.

And as long there are some men keep behaving like idiots and forget to use their brain instead of their penis we will keep hear this kind of stories over and over again, simply because they like to be cheated.

many a time thai girl marry bad farang. is it because they thinking with their genitalia?

[TAWP]

Any girl that asks for any money during the first month of dating you block right away. Remove their phone-nr from the phone, don't pick up, complete ignore. They have showed what their aim is. And never, ever, send an ATM card. If you are married and you work in another part of the world of the moment, fine, but for someone you have dated for some weeks? hel_l no...

Would you ever do it back home? Think any Thai guy would? hel_l no...

For some reason the BG-smile just weakens the knees for some...

Unless you have Zero confidence in your own ability there is literally thousands of others out there that are better. Frankly, it's like shooting fish in a barrel if you are any decent and not too old. Even as a married man you will have to push them away by the buckets...

But I digress...advice the guy that you will walk away and why. Maybe it gets him to think about what he should really be doing too.

[monopoly]

get real toots!

there isnt that many better thai girls available to the average farang. farang take what he can get and in too many cases end up with cow dung.

do you really think farang want an uneducated low income girl with kids by who knows who.

Edited January 31, 2009 by monopoly

[loong]

The rip off culture....alive and well.

Probably the girls feel that they have a right to rip off Farang because they think the farang are rich and can afford it.

How many of the posters here have watched a pirated DVD or listened to a copy CD recently or are using their PC loaded with an non genuine copy of windows? Maybe PC also loaded with copy programs bought in Tuk Com?

Those of you who can answer yes to the above - Why? Is it because you think that the film studios, Microsoft, record labels and software companies are rich and can afford it?

Just a tongue in cheek response, I'm not condoning the actions of some of these girls. I just wish that newbies to Thailand would listen to the old hands with experience.

[F1fanatic]

what is it with people having lengthy relationships with bar girls? why would anyone want to be with a woman who has been with more dick than mrs van dyke, it always confuses me, the question is whether any of you would marry a whore in your home country, because at the end of the day gents thats what bar girls are, common whores with elsewhere to stand than street corners.

There are many women in thailand that have not been whores and just being in the right places alows you to meet them, and when i say right places i am not talking about bars. i appreciate bars play a large part in the lives of some expats here and in bars you meet bar people, get out of the bars and meet women elsewhere. Any woman asking for money needs to be steered well away from.

Very simple answer to that one - denial. I actually know a man who told me that his g/f (who used to work in a bar) "wasn't a b/g at all, she worked in a bar to support her family - there is a difference"! You really can't argue with logic like that!

[henryalleman]

As long that men think with their penis, we will hear stories like that. And it don't have to be by a bar girl , and not exclusively in Thailand. Cases liked that happening with Russian, Polish women, or even with the women back ho

Women are like a whirlwind, when you look at it from a far its fascinating, and you keep on looking, even when you know the danger involved, when you are in the middle of it you are all shook up till you don't even know the difference between North and South anymore, and when its passed already you've lost your house and car. Because against any better judgement they simply refuse to see the obvious.

And as long there are some men keep behaving like idiots and forget to use their brain instead of their penis we will keep hear this kind of stories over and over again, simply because they like to be cheated.

many a time thai girl marry bad farang. is it because they thinking with their genitalia?

yes, because a man who let his life controle by his genitalia lost his sense of reality. And he also only think about his own pleasure therefore have no regards for his partner, because she is just an object to him. You can see many of them in TV

[DMasut]

I can say with loving kindness to all men who find them in similar situations.... "The cost of your education will be in direct proportion to how fast a learner you are."

Wouldn't that be "The cost of your education will be in inverse proportion..."?

No 'in direct proportion' is correct.

If it takes a short time, less cost... however, in this person's most likely course.... Going to Harvard University for an MBA might have been cheaper! But don't worry, he'll be "SCHOOLED".

If it were in inverse...it would mean that the more money he paid the less he would learn.....

ACTUALLY, thinking about it after living in Thailand 11 years... I have seen so many phenomena and contradictions that YOU SIR... Might just be right!!!!

How can you not love Thailand?!?!?

Edited February 1, 2009 by DMasut

[DMasut]

what is it with people having lengthy relationships with bar girls? why would anyone want to be with a woman who has been with more dick than mrs van dyke, it always confuses me, the question is whether any of you would marry a whore in your home country, because at the end of the day gents thats what bar girls are, common whores with elsewhere to stand than street corners.

There are many women in thailand that have not been whores and just being in the right places alows you to meet them, and when i say right places i am not talking about bars. i appreciate bars play a large part in the lives of some expats here and in bars you meet bar people, get out of the bars and meet women elsewhere. Any woman asking for money needs to be steered well away from.

Very simple answer to that one - denial. I actually know a man who told me that his g/f (who used to work in a bar) "wasn't a b/g at all, she worked in a bar to support her family - there is a difference"! You really can't argue with logic like that!

I THINK FELLOW FARANGS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THAILAND MORE THAT 10 YEARS SHOULD BE CERTIFIED CARRY AROUND A JUMBO FOAM BAT.

SO WHENEVER AND WHEREVER WE HEAR THESE STORIES AND DENIAL LOGIC EXCUSES, WE CAN HIT THEM ABOUT OVER THE HEAD AND SHOULDERS WITH IT. JUST ENOUGH TO MAYBE GET THERE ATTENTION AND KNOCK SOME SENSE INTO THEM!!!

MIGHT NOT HELP THEM..BUT WE WILL FEEL BETTER FOR THEM ABUSING OUR SENSES WITH THEIR STUPIDITY AND CAUSING US UNNECESSARY SUFFERING!!!

DO YOU THINK MAYBE THE TOURIST POLICE WOULD AUTHORIZE THIS?

Edited February 1, 2009 by DMasut

[britmaveric]

Not hard - leave dosh out of the equation like you would in the west. Be honest always amazes me how these muppets get into this mess in the first place - lose their minds over a shag and ready to build a house, give them access to their bank and other unbelievable sh*te. I don't blame the bird - hey don't ask you don't get - if same situation happened in the west 9/10 times the lad would tell the lady in question to get stuffed.

[wamberal]

Not hard - leave dosh out of the equation like you would in the west. Be honest always amazes me how these muppets get into this mess in the first place - lose their minds over a shag and ready to build a house, give them access to their bank and other unbelievable sh*te. I don't blame the bird - hey don't ask you don't get - if same situation happened in the west 9/10 times the lad would tell the lady in question to get stuffed.

Dosh comes into the equation because the westerner is wooing a far younger, more attractive, female than he could possibly hope to attract back home. He knows that, and the Thai girl knows that. Money helps to even things up a bit.

Why do so many old, unattractive, western males think that younger more attractive Thai women are interested in relationships? For their scintillating conversation?

[britmaveric]

Well like in the West - birds tastes vary, so yes there will be some young ones interested in geezers, just the way of the world.

[venturalaw]

Not hard - leave dosh out of the equation like you would in the west. Be honest always amazes me how these muppets get into this mess in the first place - lose their minds over a shag and ready to build a house, give them access to their bank and other unbelievable sh*te. I don't blame the bird - hey don't ask you don't get - if same situation happened in the west 9/10 times the lad would tell the lady in question to get stuffed.

Dosh comes into the equation because the westerner is wooing a far younger, more attractive, female than he could possibly hope to attract back home. He knows that, and the Thai girl knows that. Money helps to even things up a bit.

Why do so many old, unattractive, western males think that younger more attractive Thai women are interested in relationships? For their scintillating conversation?

Scintillating conversation - no. But money is not the only reason. I have found that many Thai women desire older men (unattractive or not) because often maturity equals stability. Stability becomes very important when one is raised in a poor environment and member(s) of the house may be out drinking, gambling, etc., or just away working hard and not there to offer guidance, warmth or comfort. Combine this with the Thai male often going from one relationship to another without concern or support for the numerous children spawned along the way - After all, the Thai woman's family can take care of them, right? I've seen younger Thai women clearly in love with their older, unattractive farang partner struggling financially and still happy. For the first time they have a 'family' in the truest sense.

[balo]

Are you looking for sex with a bargirl? Fine you come to the right place , you can have some fun on your old days.

Are you looking for love and marriage ? Forget it!

Never never never believe in any bargirl if she says she loves you .

Theres plenty of girls looking for love outside the barscene .

Edited February 2, 2009 by balo

[venturalaw]

Are you looking for sex with a bargirl? Fine you come to the right place , you can have some fun on your old days.

Are you looking for love and marriage ? Forget it!

Never never never believe in any bargirl if she says she loves you .

Theres plenty of girls looking for love outside the barscene .

I was not targeting bar girls per se - and therefore perhaps my comments were off topic. For that I apologize.

[wamberal]

Are you looking for sex with a bargirl? Fine you come to the right place , you can have some fun on your old days.

Are you looking for love and marriage ? Forget it!

Never never never believe in any bargirl if she says she loves you .

Theres plenty of girls looking for love outside the barscene .

My wife and I met a man and wife - he is Aussie, she is Thai - a few years ago, when we were living near Sydney. We got to know them fairly superficially, but well enough to know their story. It turned out that she had indeed been working in the "hospitality industry". They are happy, and happily married, with no hang-ups and no problems.

"Never never never believe" anybody who says all of a particular class or occupation of people are automatically bad or beyond redemption. Incidentally, the Thai wife that I referred to had received help from Rahab, a Christian organisation based in Patpong which re-trains women who want to get out of the sex industry, and she now raises money for Rahab in Australia. We, and our church, have helped by selling hand-made Rahab greetings cards.

All human beings are valuable in some way, and nobody is beyond redemption.

Edited February 2, 2009 by wamberal

[Sabum]

I THINK FELLOW FARANGS THAT HAVE BEEN IN THAILAND MORE THAT 10 YEARS SHOULD BE CERTIFIED CARRY AROUND A JUMBO FOAM BAT.

SO WHENEVER AND WHEREVER WE HEAR THESE STORIES AND DENIAL LOGIC EXCUSES, WE CAN HIT THEM ABOUT OVER THE HEAD AND SHOULDERS WITH IT. JUST ENOUGH TO MAYBE GET THERE ATTENTION AND KNOCK SOME SENSE INTO THEM!!!

MIGHT NOT HELP THEM..BUT WE WILL FEEL BETTER FOR THEM ABUSING OUR SENSES WITH THEIR STUPIDITY AND CAUSING US UNNECESSARY SUFFERING!!!

DO YOU THINK MAYBE THE TOURIST POLICE WOULD AUTHORIZE THIS?

Was going to lambast you for using caps like a retarded child but your idea is really good! It would make an excellent scene in a comedy, thanks!

Edited February 2, 2009 by Sabum

[dumball]

I think that is where the idea of the foam bat came from , watching too many Asian comedy(?) shows , except they tend to use plastic bottles . 555

[Portl]

I can say with loving kindness to all men who find them in similar situations.... "The cost of your education will be in direct proportion to how fast a learner you are."

Wouldn't that be "The cost of your education will be in inverse proportion..."?

No 'in direct proportion' is correct.

If it takes a short time, less cost... however, in this person's most likely course.... Going to Harvard University for an MBA might have been cheaper! But don't worry, he'll be "SCHOOLED".

If it were in inverse...it would mean that the more money he paid the less he would learn.....

ACTUALLY, thinking about it after living in Thailand 11 years... I have seen so many phenomena and contradictions that YOU SIR... Might just be right!!!!

How can you not love Thailand?!?!?

Heh.. I think we agree on the premise, but as originally written a direct proportional relationship would mean the FASTER you learn the MORE it will cost, though it's likely the inverse is true. Maybe if it were recast this way:

"The cost of your education will be in direct proportion to the length of time it takes to learn." - which is true of most learnable things, innit?

Now how do we fit this on a t-shirt and make a killing on KSR?

[monopoly]

Dosh comes into the equation because the westerner is wooing a far younger, more attractive, female than he could possibly hope to attract back home. He knows that, and the Thai girl knows that. Money helps to even things up a bit.

Why do so many old, unattractive, western males think that younger more attractive Thai women are interested in relationships? For their scintillating conversation?

oh my god!

what i see is less than avg looking thai girls on the arms of many foreigners.

the good looking ones dont need to go with dubious quality farang.

[HYENA]

She is a player. Both guys have been played.

The problem is that guys in this situation rarely listen to advice, no matter how well intended the advice is.

I am to blame for ignoring the signs and advice I read on this board and elsewhere. I hope this thread will assist the other guy to make his decision rationally and maybe also assist others in not making the same mistake I made.

The heart ruled the head.

I had advice to dump my lady but after some investigation, it turned out to be OK. I have to say this is likely less common, though. If they've played two at a time (finances) then she's dead wrong and I wouldn't be friends with someone looking to save face.

I caught my gf communicating with other guys but she had done that with her last bf when things were unstable. He left her high and dry and in a really bad way (set her up in a nice apt, etc then cut her off...her mistake for not saving some money). Having said that, there are some nice girls out there who are reluctant to go work in these areas but it is seen as a sacrifice for the family. It's not easy to see through them because the undercurrent of culture is dishonesty. If it means saving face or helping family, for goodness sakes, lie!

Many, once they are sure they are in a stable relationship (like the Thailand fever book says) will part ways and want nothing to do with that scene or culture and desire to rever to traditional ways finding respectable work.

My fiancee knows both sorts...good hearted women looking for a farang husband (they say Thai men drink, abuse and cheat too much-which I have seen with her friends and family) so they look for the culture of fidelity and financial security/responsibility from vertain farang cultures (hate to generalize but this is how she and some of her friends see it). She's teaching her younger female relatives never to date a Thai and whenever they hear domestic violence or see a drunk Thai with his wife dragging him, keeping him upright, she points and tells her younger female relatives "this is what happens when you marry a Thai...remember this and never date a Thai and you won't fall in love...wair for a farang".

Having said this, many Isaan women just don't know where to find a farang so they may dabble in areas to look not realizing the live and death gamble they play with their health and their lives. They say "where else am I supposed to find a good husband" out of ignorance, I believe ebcause everyone they've ever heard of found her mate in a bar.

The websites have been a big help keeping good women out of bars but unfortunately have also helped the players find mroe vitims, too. I had suspictions early on and now I have none. You do feel it in your gut (statistics say 85% of the time your gut knows what you may not). My gut is OK. I'm going to get her in a couple months to bring her here. She's proven to have a very good heart, worked in soem horrible jobs just to contribute or buy a Christmas present with her own money and she helps with our business. I think if one finds the right girl (I'm convinced there are many right girls) then the differences are a compliment IMHO.

Sorry to hear you were played. it's not easy games involving the heart. My suggestion would be to find a decent woman and get over and stop talking to your player. Once a cheater, always a cheater they say (I, for example cannot cheat; it's not in my make up...there are women with the same values, as well...some claim it's genetic but I only know there are some who can and some who can't...find someone who'se parents broke up because of a cheater and likely they are all too desperate not to follow suit and will be especially faithful)....just my thoughts....