Financial Crisis

[AlexLah]

That might be a good idea J. Bimmie is renamed as suggested into Da Bitch and she needs a good wash.

You on the other hand might phone your imagenary Rotchild relative and ask what the real problems are and find a way to earn back

that big bag of money you lost as you mentioned earlier. Please next time at least post a link to something constructive or funny, as sometimes humor is all we have left.

[midas]

i am in no position to judge in what way and up to what extent the information we are fed by politicians and bankers is right or wrong.

I am not trying to be pedantic Naam but WHY ?

isnt that partly what got into this mess -

democracy is meant to be " government of the people, by the people "

I think it is our duty to tell them as loudly as possible this sucks ?

[Naam]

i am in no position to judge in what way and up to what extent the information we are fed by politicians and bankers is right or wrong.

I am not trying to be pedantic Naam but WHY ?

i don't understand Midas. are you referring to my confessed inability of judgment?

[jcon]

That might be a good idea J. Bimmie is renamed as suggested into Da Bitch and she needs a good wash.

You on the other hand might phone your imagenary Rotchild relative and ask what the real problems are and find a way to earn back

that big bag of money you lost as you mentioned earlier. Please next time at least post a link to something constructive or funny, as sometimes humor is all we have left.

Haha Plalex I forgot you took my good advice and renamed her 'da bitch.'

No need to phone the imaginary Rothschild gf (not relative btw) as she's imaginarily in the other room... plus you should know the Men control all of the Rothschild money, the women just get some allowance, and their bf's in turn get nothing!

As for the shiteload I lost in 2008 - I've come up with a new philosophy for 2009 and beyond (this new philosophy was born of the idea that, with all of the money lost in 2008, I may as well have thrown a giant party for everybody within a 25km radius of my house and at least I would have had something to show for it)... this new philosophy is "<deleted> it." I'm actually contributing fairly well to injecting my own cash into the economy with this new philosophy... almost to the point of insanity. But at least I'll go out with a bang, or at least broke. But for some reason I just don't see that happening (don't ask why, I have no idea either). But the present ride is fun, more fun then '08 when I was sobbing over lost cash.

For instance... taken from my crappy phone (bkkjames, this one should blow your mind - this place is 100x the price of my phone PER NIGHT - or in other terms more than the value of my Triton PER NIGHT - blowing money or having fun? You make the call. I, personally think it's ridiculous, but I swore to never feel the way I felt in '08 again - so "<deleted> it!" I say.) At the current rate of expenditure, I expect to run out of cash sometime in 2009/2010, coinciding with the falling of the sky and a meteor hitting Earth, but at least I will have done my part of 'spending' to 'jumpstart' the 'economy' in style and without regret. So, ironically, I must thank 2008 for introducing me to the '<deleted> it' philosophy.

All you TV millionaires should be familiar with the place. Points to whoever can name it.

So take 'da bitch' out for a wash Plalex, and have some fun. It's Sunday, put down the documents and take her for a drive... may I recommend the Bang Pa-In Expressway... you can bury the needle easily on that freeway - once past Ngamwongwan, you're golden... now that's living!!! Do not neglect a BMW!!!!!!!!

edit: There are 2 points on that expressway where you have the high potential of bottoming out at high speed, I suggest you familiarize yourself with these 2 particular spots, then remember them and have the time of your life...

Edited February 15, 2009 by jcon

[AlexLah]

Hi J,

Well I guess you are a bit overreacting now J. It might be a better idea to live a bit more modest?

Anyway I know you are still young so when the money runs out there are plenty of possibilitys to make some money.

I suggest Jakarta where there are a lot of older very rich lady's that love to spend it on their boy toy's.

I do have my fun as I am driving my car everyday but more like to enjoy the immense joy it gives me when doing short drag racing.

Reading some of those doc's is just sort of a hobby as I have not much else at hand at the moment.

And it is just sort of amazing when going through this WEF agenda, all the gloom and doom scenario's mentioned in there would make a lot of people feel very sick. But hey, they also mention some solutions here and there. It is just sad to know that for the people that have young children that they and perhaps their children will be burdened because of a few muppets that were and are very well aware what they are doing is more then criminal. I dunno if you have listened to this Geitner piece of a clown, why do they allow such people with a brain smaller then a peanut appear on stage and read from a script is beyond belief. A stimulus document more then a 1000 pages long could not even be sufficiently studied by congress before voting on it, well they voted anyway because Superhero Prince Obama predicted a catastrophe if not signed. And then you have that other guy Gordon the Clown who keeps saying that it is a global thingy and we have to act on a global scale to avoid a total meltdown of the world financial system. And than the sickening face of that other moron called Darling, this guy should not even be allowed to exist as he comes over as a natural disaster. We hear them saying banks must start lending again, who do they think they are talking to, a bunch of monkey's? <deleted> those MF don't understand if you have lost your job and house and when thousands and thousands of shops are closing there are not many peasants left worth lending to. Sometimes I think such muppets only reason they have a head is to keep their frikkin ears seperated. Aaaaaaaaaaah, that feels good, a litlle bit of ranting.

But I fully agree J that we should enjoy live as much as we can and if you choose to live an extravagant lifestyle for a year then that is your choice, it will surely help some bizz owners. By the way that picture you posted might be taken in that holiday place in Vietnam, forgot the name.

Make sure when your back in Thailand to invite me for a beer, I could surely use a cold one now.

[Naam]

Alex, have you ever considered the fact that those whom you call clowns and morons would only have (best scenario) a sympathetic smile for the position you have achieved in life, the apartment you live in, your bank account, your car and your gold hoard?

[midas]

Midas, that is merely an assumption although based on logic and extrapolating the facts. until now it is still not clear whether the situation develops into a global depression with all its negative implications. extremely high unemployment and famine cannot be completely ruled out but talking about or forecasting it is presently far fetched and not justified. that goes especially for potential wars for which not even the smallest reason exists.

Naam you are misinterpreting my point. In my statement you underlined I made no reference to war or depression ?

And I don't regard a war as a danger right now in the conventional sense of one military against another.

I want to correct something I said earlier in response to Naam when I said I didn't think there was

much risk of a war between nations. I have changed my mind this afternoon after watching Glenn Beck

in an interview on television discussing the interpretation of events around the launching of the

Omid satellite- in Persian Omid means "Hope "

Safir-2 -- rocket - Safir is a Farsi term meaning "ambassador.". I didn't know any of this before but here is a link describing why Israel

and the U.S. is worried. It's just something else to put into the melting pot for consideration.

" But instead of seeking to reassure delegates that Iran's nuclear intentions were purely benign,

Mr Ahmadinejad took advantage of his official visit to a country deemed -- in the lexicon of the Iranian

Revolution -- "the Great Satan" to embark on a discourse about the wonders of the 12th Imam.

For those unacquainted with the more obscure tenets of Islamic theology, the 12th Imam is held by

devout Shi'ite Muslims to be a direct descendant of the Prophet Mohammed who went

into "occlusion" in the ninth century at the age of five and hasn't been seen since.

The Hidden Imam, as he is also known by his followers, will only return after a

period of cosmic chaos, war and bloodshed -- what Christians call the Apocalypse -- and then lead

the world into an era of universal peace.

Rumours abound of Mr Ahmadinejad's devotion to the 12th Imam, and last year it was reported

that he had persuaded his cabinet to sign a "contract" pledging themselves to work for his return. "

Full article here :- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3642984...-with-Iran.html

Israel and the U.S. we are told are attaching great significance to the launching of this rocket because they are interpreting it

as Iran wishing to speed up the process of instigating the " cosmic chaos, war and bloodshed " they regard as needing to happen.

I've said many times in different threads on TV I'm convinced somehow and some way partly because of the indirect

control of institutions like the U.S. Federal Reserve that people from Israel even in some small way

contributed to this whole global economic mess and that somewhere even just a small part of this bailout

money has been stashed away or maybe has already been spent on buying/making weapons to counteract

Iran's clear intent.

[AlexLah]

Well you know Naam all of that I got by very hard working, while helping other people improve their lives and do the best I could to reduce enviromental pollution, not only by sitting behind a computer waiting for e-mails to fly in.

Most of politicians and CEO"s of big company's are worthless pieces of sh1t with no feelings for others then themselves.

And I know that because I had to work with a few and in my experience they are just that, pieces of crap.

The new CEO of the old company I worked for was a minister before and is personally responsible of signing a bill that allowed that company he is now surprisingly CEO of to dump thousands and thousand of tons of chemical waste in the ground that still is polluting groundwater. His buddy ministers have been able to prevent this going to court so he and others could be prosecuted. Another guy that was flown in as full expat in my old company refuses to drive a less then 1 year old car that the company bought for the local lady he has now replaced. He wants the company to buy him a new car. That guy is a muppet too.

Here another example why these big techies have outsourced the production of their goods to countries like China.

http://www.nlcnet.org/article.php?id=613

I wonder how Mr. Gates feels about that. It seems compassion is a word that does not exist anymore in many people's dictionairy.

I was a bit negatively surprised when you said you were only interested in your own situation, I just hope that is not really true.

Luckily we have internet and things like TV as we can try to help eachother understand what the heck is going on and perhaps have some idea where this mass

experiment will lead us too. And yes I am behind a labtop that is most likely produced by those slaves working in Chinese factories. And I do not think it is funny.

Anyway there is at the moment a small army of ant's invading my kitchen, I just wonder why?

[beammeup]

It's a financial crisis. Not a war, not a famine. There are the same numbers of houses in the world. Same number of cars, same medicines, same food. The sun still shines and crops grow in the fields. What has been destroyed are the intangibles that have been hyper leveraged to represent wealth where non exists, apart from the small base of production, actual tangibles, upon which the projection is based.

So there is gridlock. So growth stalls or regresses for a couple of years. Big deal. The individuals who's lives are wrecked will be devastated but life will go on and things will return to normal after most of the crap, liars, useless companies producing crap no one wants has been shaken out of the system. Its a market correction on a huge global scale.

It's a failure too of democracy since what has emerged is a systemic failure of the USA political system which

a. Will never raise taxes when borrowing is an option. You cannot be elected in the USA unless you tell bigger lies than the other guy. Thats becoming true of all democracies.

b. When in trouble does not know how to respond. China can act far more quickly than the lumbering democracies.

What we are witnessing is historic in the sense that the fall of democracy and capitalism has followed the collapse of socialism. Interesting too that the traditional islamic banks are still relatively strong whilst the west's banks which laughed at islamic lending and borrowing rates have collapsed. The Arab states will emerge relatively stronger as will any truly Islamic state.

Which countries do best after the crash may well set the tone for the future. Except for the pure democracies like the US...they are doomed, but it won't come in our lifetime. The slow death of the American empire will take a long time, though as Turner argued it may well have set in once there was no more frontier. If there's nowhere left to go you turn inwards. The conspiracy theorists and survivalists are a product of the end of the frontier. At least there is still a booming market in pitbulls and guns, survival rations and bullets, razor wire and 'KEEP OUT" signs in Thai, and America's mosty powerful export, paranoia, is alive and well in Thailand.

What about the Final Frontier

[12DrinkMore]

What about the Final Frontier

Dunno about that. But did you know Davy Crocket had three ears? A left ear, a right ear and a wild frontier? :D :D

Sorry about that, a little out of character I suppose, better get back to being angry and gloomy...

[Chaimai]

What about the Final Frontier

Dunno about that. But did you know Davy Crocket had three ears? A left ear, a right ear and a wild frontier? :jerk:

Sorry about that, a little out of character I suppose, better get back to being angry and gloomy...

12D - delighted that you have taken my advice to lighten up. Well done.

[jcon]

What about the Final Frontier

Next time I ask the gf if I can go to her "Final Frontier," I will use the Financial Crisis as my last resort excuse... you think it will work?

Plalex. Aside from all of your pictures and youtube videos, I actually think you're a nice guy. I think you genuinely want the world to be better, and I agree with you about CEOs, politicians, etc... but it's been that way for way longer than just this most recent blip in Financial History... not that just because it is the status quo justifies anything, but I'm just trying to say - well I don't know what I'm trying to say.

You're a young guy, I suspect around my age (I'm 31) - I've seen you and your slicked back hair and nice threads - you seem(ed) like a normal enough guy - if I had never seen you post all of these cryptic illuminati stuff - I would take you for your average gent. So this is why I suggest to you trying my new philosophy, '<deleted> it.' Try it for a day, a week, an month... whatever... just drop this Global Financial Crisis stuff for a bit. Like I said, drive 'da bitch' around, not just to work... but for fun... real fun... Go up north again and almost get stuck in the mud (I think that was you).... do something memorable.

I think in the end it may be good for you. Then you can get back to posting pictures and youtube links. ThaiVisa will still be here when you get back. Just my 2 cents, because I'd hate to see a regular guy (and a fellow American (IIRC?)) go the way of internet hermit/conspiracy guy. Leave that to the real geeks. If anybody remembers that guy with a picture of himself and a huge shotgun (he lived in Cambodia and was on ThaiVisa briefly to espouse his nuttiness)... aka don't become like that.

Some guys on here are hurting financially (myself included). And we come from all kinds of different backgrounds. I feel for the older gents, whose pensions are being raped. But I'm sure they feel for us, too - who will have to (along with our children, and our children's children, etc. ad infinitum) carry the burden. So there is still compassion in the world. It's not all that bad. Yes, some things are really bad - but if you keep looking for the bad, that's all you're gonna find.

Ok, that's enough, this is a borderline sappy post and I'll stop now. Plalex, the forum begs you... (maybe midas too?).... take a break, have some fun, kiss a girl, fall in love, pet an animal... live life. Just for a moment, at least.

K, I'm off to weasel my way into the "Final Frontier." Must buy some bubbly first to facilitate a 'yes, you can beam up...'

[beammeup]

What about the Final Frontier

Next time I ask the gf if I can go to her "Final Frontier," I will use the Financial Crisis as my last resort excuse... you think it will work?

Plalex. Aside from all of your pictures and youtube videos, I actually think you're a nice guy. I think you genuinely want the world to be better, and I agree with you about CEOs, politicians, etc... but it's been that way for way longer than just this most recent blip in Financial History... not that just because it is the status quo justifies anything, but I'm just trying to say - well I don't know what I'm trying to say.

You're a young guy, I suspect around my age (I'm 31) - I've seen you and your slicked back hair and nice threads - you seem(ed) like a normal enough guy - if I had never seen you post all of these cryptic illuminati stuff - I would take you for your average gent. So this is why I suggest to you trying my new philosophy, '<deleted> it.' Try it for a day, a week, an month... whatever... just drop this Global Financial Crisis stuff for a bit. Like I said, drive 'da bitch' around, not just to work... but for fun... real fun... Go up north again and almost get stuck in the mud (I think that was you).... do something memorable.

I think in the end it may be good for you. Then you can get back to posting pictures and youtube links. ThaiVisa will still be here when you get back. Just my 2 cents, because I'd hate to see a regular guy (and a fellow American (IIRC?)) go the way of internet hermit/conspiracy guy. Leave that to the real geeks. If anybody remembers that guy with a picture of himself and a huge shotgun (he lived in Cambodia and was on ThaiVisa briefly to espouse his nuttiness)... aka don't become like that.

Some guys on here are hurting financially (myself included). And we come from all kinds of different backgrounds. I feel for the older gents, whose pensions are being raped. But I'm sure they feel for us, too - who will have to (along with our children, and our children's children, etc. ad infinitum) carry the burden. So there is still compassion in the world. It's not all that bad. Yes, some things are really bad - but if you keep looking for the bad, that's all you're gonna find.

Ok, that's enough, this is a borderline sappy post and I'll stop now. Plalex, the forum begs you... (maybe midas too?).... take a break, have some fun, kiss a girl, fall in love, pet an animal... live life. Just for a moment, at least.

K, I'm off to weasel my way into the "Final Frontier." Must buy some bubbly first to facilitate a 'yes, you can beam up...'

Dont you mean beam down

[midas]

Ok, that's enough, this is a borderline sappy post and I'll stop now. Plalex, the forum begs you... (maybe midas too?).... take a break, have some fun, kiss a girl, fall in love, pet an animal... live life. Just for a moment, at least.

K, I'm off to weasel my way into the "Final Frontier." Must buy some bubbly first to facilitate a 'yes, you can beam up...'

Hi jcon

Thanks for your concern but you don't have to worry me. I may appear to be obsessed but for example I don't

sit in front of the computer all day ( many on these postings are dictated " on the run " using Dragon NaturallySpeaking

on a small laptop I carry around with me so it's like speaking into the phone ). I get away very frequently to the tranquility of the rice fields

of Northeastern Thailand and there are many animals to pet there.

You would be surprised to know I have been a student of " fcukology " for a long time

I guess part of my fascination for posting here

is that it's been a pleasure to find people who think outside the box because I dont have much patience for

sheeple. I am stimulated by people who " never stop asking " like Flying, Alex, 12, Naam and others like them.

Anyway yes I will sit back for a while now and see what happens this week-see how many countries go broke this week

oops sorry about that

[henryalleman]

Obviously, you.

Sorry but I don't know what MSM is.

One of the big advantages of being a citizen of a small tiny insignificant country is that when a reporter of a local or national TV stations making programs about countries, they met less adversity towards them than big countries who interfer in their internal politics and they always use local contacts and keep low profile.

That's why those kind of reporters brought and bring a complete different coverage of the Irac and Afghanistan war, simply because they are not imbedded with the armed forces, and many times even not welcomed by those forces. So they must find different channels to show the news.

Recently there where investigation documentaries where a reporter travelled to Mecca starting in Spain passing all Muslim countries. There was another reporter who visited Iran during the the period the Sha was expelled and now he visited the same people again.

Furthermore in my home town we have many Iranians (Muslim and Christians) who run away.

Also we have access to more than 40 foreign TV stations by cable. And on our own TV stations show many investigating documentaries from other countries, always subtitled, no voice over.

And there are news papers; magazines and books available. One newspaper shop in my home town sell more than 400 foreign newspapers and magazines. Normal when you know that more than 147 different nationality's live over here. And I can speak and read 5 languages, and can make limited conversations in an extra 3 other ones .

And of course there is my age, so I have witnessed the international politics from the last 50 years. Not to mention that the elders of my family in pre TV and Internet times talked on family gatherings about their life and endeavours during WW1 and WW2. For me as a child sitting quietly in some corner, that was more exciting than any movie or book.

So I presume I have a broad well informed view on some issues.

So where, when and how long you stayed in Iran.

I do apologize for this long answer who is completely but is was neccesary for my reply.

[AlexLah]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Jcon.

Snif, snif, here the stench of conspiraaasy. You are doing the bad cop good cop style right?

The bad cop didn't work, so now you try to persuade me for a moment to stop digging.

I guess you were a bit surprised on how I got that February thingy sort of correct, hmmmmmmm?

And their secret joke in the Dow index on the 10 missing the 9.

Get's a bit scary ain't it when people start decrypting the messages.

Just kidding.

Anyway as I have plenty of time on my hands I decided to ask myself another question. Millions and millions of stocks and other complicated stuff is being traded on those stock markets. Who keeps track of most of it? Well there are these guy's at: http://www.dtcc.com.

Very very interesting I must say, so I kept digging and am still not finished but these guy's are really funny.

Have a look at their site as they give a lot of info.

And Jcon, let us know if you succeeded exploring that warm moisty cave.

And no, me is not American, me is teleported from the Moon to planet Earth a long time back.

[henryalleman]

that is correct but you find extremely backward and fundamentalist Shiites in Saudi Arabia (al-Hasa province is purely shia), Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and even India. compared to those even the saudi wahhabi Sunnis seem to possess moderate thinking and adapting to modern times. once you experienced the shia holiday Muharram you know what i am talking about.

I agree, but you see the same kind of rituals in the Philippines at eastern and even in good old Europe.

In my own country every year in 2 different catholic processions where they whip themselves till the blood is running from their back. Only recently they decided not to do it in public any more.

But in Spain its still widely spread like in all Spanish speaking countries;

And than we not yet mention the religious backwards Evangelical Christians in the States. Or the mentality in the Bible belt. Also in Holland we have some of those backward Christian communities. Staphorst is one of them.

Needless to say I'm a pagan

[henryalleman]

should never have started the bailouts in the first place,to banks,and industry(sink or swim).once you start down this path its hard to stop.A bit like having a relationship with a thai lady and her family,once you start to give its hard to stop and get off the roller coaster.

All this money could have gone onto social welfare payments,re training for successful industries for the future like the environment businesses,all the high flyers in banking/finance would have been cut off at the kneecaps(no more huge payouts to these criminals)new banks would have come into play at the same time new stringent regulations put into place to stop it happening again.

A clean up mentality could have taken hold,clean up pollies expense sheets,trim fraudelent welfare payments,make payments just to the needy,balance the out of workers for over 6 months with making them commit to re training programmes.

You should keep that its all started when the first domino stone was falling down by the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers, can you imaging the worldwide catastrophe when Citi-Group go bankcrupt. Who is already a few years in difficulties.

[AlexLah]

No worries Henry, as said I am a nice person you know.

Just interested in experiences and thoughts and feelings of other people.

MSM means: Main Stream Media that are mostly controlled by the ones that we cannot condemn because of their claimed sufferings that happened many years ago and still use that to influence the MSM and politics.

I just wonder why the horrific things that Stalin did are not up for a similair discussion. Ore the fire bombing of Dresden that killed many innocent people.

But this has nothing to do with this psycho game they are playing now.

Iran has just launched a rocket to have a satellite in orbit and you see the news is telling those rockets could reach every place on Earth.

And then they try to mention these power plants could be used as a source to produce atomic bombs.

So what if Iran is capable to produce an atomic bomb, India and Pakistan have them and also Israel, what is the problem?

The people of Iran do not feel hatred against American people, they just do not like their foreign policy, as many of people in different country's.

[henryalleman]

dont know if this was posted?

Failure to save East Europe will lead to worldwide meltdown

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment...e-meltdown.html

This site comes up with a lot of editorials doesn't it? I see it often linked on other forums I read.

PS:

We are nearing the point where the IMF may have to print money for the world, using arcane powers to issue Special Drawing Rights.

Is this possibly a reason in itself?

The Flemish KBC bank who is one of the major players in Eastern Europe did write of all his Eastern investments. The Flemish government invested 2 billion Euro and give them the right to borrow more from them if needed for an amount of another 1.5 billion EURO. Lucky they could do this because the Flemish government is debt free, and even have an surplus.

The Belgian government was not able to do it, because they had to save already another 3 banks from bankcrupty.

This was dunn because their shares where dropping by 40% in weeks time by speculation, even the bank had no financial or cash flow problems.

So I think a lot of the financial problems of banks is created by speculation.

[henryalleman]

I am getting a bit tired while reading through "The Agenda"

All the time we focus on optimising efficiency, lowering cost, following JIT principles, not realising the effects incase something bad happens.

I think you read Lew Rockwell.com a little bit too much

[flying]

Jim Lovell on Apollo 13 and his famous statement "Houston, we have a problem."

It's as if government's are relying solely on the hope most people are too worn out to have the time

to extrapolate so just feed them enough information not to incite panic and so they continue to keep their money in the bank.

You can see this in many ways even now.

How many have told you to take the F*%^ It ......way & not worry about it?

Not saying it is bad advise but it shows many are tired already.

What was the govt telling us when they took their broke a$$ FDIC & NCUA & raised it to 250k per depositor ?

Edited February 15, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

that is correct but you find extremely backward and fundamentalist Shiites in Saudi Arabia (al-Hasa province is purely shia), Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and even India. compared to those even the saudi wahhabi Sunnis seem to possess moderate thinking and adapting to modern times. once you experienced the shia holiday Muharram you know what i am talking about.

I agree, but you see the same kind of rituals in the Philippines at eastern and even in good old Europe.

In my own country every year in 2 different catholic processions where they whip themselves till the blood is running from their back. Only recently they decided not to do it in public any more.

perhaps the example i stated is not very valid Henry. actually i speak more based on my personal experience and that is living and working nearly 16 years in islamic countries.

[flying]

Dunno about that. But did you know Davy Crocket had three ears? A left ear, a right ear and a wild frontier?

Sorry about that, a little out of character I suppose, better get back to being angry and gloomy...

12D - delighted that you have taken my advice to lighten up. Well done.

Ok here is one for you......... What is the differnece between Iceland & Ireland????

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One Letter & about 4 months...hahahahahaha :jerk:

Edited February 15, 2009 by flying

[samuibeachcomber]

the really worrying factor in this so called FGC is that no one seems in control.the pollies are thrashing around like a person who cannot swim his/her way out of troubled waters,and no one knows where we are headed.

Now throw into the mix the religious zealots(extreme christian groups particularly in the USA,the islamic extremists etc)who all want their own version of an apocalytic war/armageddon etc.

Are we humans(for example)just puppets on a string being manipulated by spiritual forces,are there sides to choice betwen good and evil.I bring this up because of an earlier post(457) re an iranian satellite.

this financial crisis that 12 and flying have been concentrating on is only part of what's going o imo.AL is concentrating on the machinations of the faceless people in banking/finances/politicians.Jcon has decided just to let it all go for now and spend and chill out,Naams checking that his wealth is still in place.

Just read a report that the pakistani govt. are now seriously concerned that the taliban are slowly taking control of pakistan.

I appreciate that many posters here are either pagan or atheist or agnostic and have only ridicule for religions,and i would be the first to agree that many religions of this world have been the cause of so much trouble.For me i find religions interesting and have studied the bible more than other religious books,but the 3 mainstream religions,islam judaism,christianity,all point to a period of time that the world will find itself in often referred to as "the last days",and the time we are coming into now sure feels like that period of time to me.

Am not wanting to participate in a slanging match or one of ridicule,but i just wanted to pose another question into the mix as i enjoy discussing this thread.

[henryalleman]

Instead of pointing the finger to some president of a middle East country who's is only allowed to bark when his masters allowed, its better to look to the real menace of the current financial disaster.

And that is a country since recently, ruled by a president who is picked out, wel trained and prepared PR man by the Moguls of the Democratic party and his sponsors, even his most famous and inspiring speeches are not written by himself but by an 27 year old(Favreau). A president who was elected due to the campaign efforts by the easy fooled millenium generations. A president who try to form a cabinet where already 4 or 5 of his key ministers have to resign even before they even took office. That's not a good start for any government. I'm afraid that the Americans will have a brutal waking up in a few months, because they have too high hopes, and will find out that only inspiring speeches can't change a country. Because the really needed social reforms will simply not be implemented and the US will remain the country where the old adagio every men for himself will still stand.

An administration who announce an 835 billion USD stimulus plan who will achieve nothing and who still believe that more spending and borrowing by the public will be THE solution for economical recovery. The same borrowing and over-spending who brought them in problems. An inter banking interest rate of zero % left no more margin at all to give an extra stimulus . Today GM announced they need still more money after the 13 billion USD they just been promised to save the company.

Most of the US financial institutes and banks could only survive in recent years due to massive capital injections by Arab and Asian investors. There is a huge trade deficit. When the government issues governments bonds they are bought up by Japanese housewife's and other foreign investors because they can not find enough capital inside the country. The saving rates are one of the lowest in the world. And still the consumers are stimulated to make more debts, that's just insane.

In fact the US ransack the whole world. Can you imagine the dilemma of the Chinese government who have 12000 Billion USD in their possession. If they sell it they will have huge losses and this is so, for many countries because their are more USD outside the US than in.Their is even something like an EURODOLLAR. Every week one US Bank go bust. California is almost bankrupt for the second time in a few years. And of top of that the American financial institutes have the audacity to blame the Chinese not using this USD to stimulate the world economy. This money will be very needed to stimulate the Chinese internal market to avoid social unrest and uprising from the workers send back home upcountry without any compensation.

The world economy is in a transition, who's major effect will be that the US economic world dominance is gliding down. Simply because the US have only a consumer market of 300 million who are loosing their buying power and who are deeply in debt ,and their export is in free fall. just look to their trade deficit. Compare this with the consumer markets of the EU 500 million and even more important Asian consumer markets markets of India 1.15 billion and China 1.33 billion, almost half of the world population.

Europe have better weapons to deal with the present financial problems. because they have an government controlled and guided economy and have an social security system. The US on the other hand is a social jungle and still in favour of an free unlimited uncontrolled economy and banking system. And its this system who failed and showed his limits.

Every world powers in history has their rise and decline, the Roman Empire 400 years, Spain 300 years Brittan 400 years.They all declined because greed and not be able to finance their military industrial complex and their wars. The US is not different from them, only their world dominance will only last a few decades, simply because they fail to understand that military power is less important than in the old day's, just look to the present political power of China today, nobody dares to go against them only because their enormous home market of 1.33 billion consumers, and the massive amount of money in their possession.

And that's why we ain't see nothing yet, we can only hope that the rest of the world don't suffer too hard by the failure and decline of the US economic and financial system.

This is in now way US bashing from my part, just an personal view from somebody who is interested in politic and history.

[henryalleman]

that is correct but you find extremely backward and fundamentalist Shiites in Saudi Arabia (al-Hasa province is purely shia), Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and even India. compared to those even the saudi wahhabi Sunnis seem to possess moderate thinking and adapting to modern times. once you experienced the shia holiday Muharram you know what i am talking about.

I agree, but you see the same kind of rituals in the Philippines at eastern and even in good old Europe.

In my own country every year in 2 different catholic processions where they whip themselves till the blood is running from their back. Only recently they decided not to do it in public any more.

perhaps the example i stated is not very valid Henry. actually i speak more based on my personal experience and that is living and working nearly 16 years in islamic countries.

Naam, -I didn't work in islamic countries, but I lived 25 years surrounded by them, also worked whit them for the same period of time , I know how the fxxxng b....rds thinks and behave very well.

[samuibeachcomber]

HA a lucid post,and i agree with your summation,there does n't seem to be any common sense anymore.the first sign that Obama will be no different was the choice of some of his appointments(he had promised "a sea change") and failed at the first hurdle.All presidents are products of the powerful elite and cos of the political so called democratic system of elections that allow private and business donations,no president can be free to put in place policies that would benefit the mainstream population.

[Naam]

Most of politicians and CEO"s of big company's are worthless pieces of sh1t with no feelings for others then themselves. And I know that because I had to work with a few and in my experience they are just that, pieces of crap.

Alex, based on your posting i assume you never had the position of a CEO and i take it as granted that you were never a politician. all what you do is judging from your perspective and personal values. good luck with your attitude which leads -in my view- to nowhere; definitely not to success in life

[Naam]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3642984...-with-Iran.html

whenever i see "telegraph" a derogatory grin shows on my face