Financial Crisis

[churchill]

The euro is a macro-economic weapon of mass destruction - it simply must be defused.

'Let’s say that Merkel does crack, and takes the monetization route, with Germany laying-down terms to the eurozone profligates. Such conditions would need to be non-negotiable and loudly stated, so as to placate an outraged German public. What then? How long before southern European leaders start routinely blaming “the Germans” for domestic woes?

How long before new, more extreme politicians come to the fore, pandering to base human prejudice? How long before a system that’s supposed to promote free trade and European co-operation ended up, instead, promoting protectionism, hatred and conflict?

These are the questions that the cheer-leaders of “fiscal union” need to answer.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8901038/The-euro-is-a-macro-economic-weapon-of-mass-destruction-it-simply-must-be-defused..html

Edited November 20, 2011 by churchill

[Naam]

How long before southern European leaders start routinely blaming “the Germans” for domestic woes?

what a silly question! they have already started to blame "the Germans". thieves and frauds are blaming those from whom they have stolen and whom they defrauded. best is that the getting assistance from various sides with bitchings such as "Fourth Reich" and "Germany invading Europe with different means"

ridiculous but quite amusing are the bitchings in the British media. it's nothing but Germany's fault that "rule Britannia" is something of a long gone past

[Naam]

However, every crook that got us into the crisis still needs to be prosecuted or any recovery will be short lived if they continue to steal from depositors and investors.

that's one of my wet dreams too Ronz. but we should not hold our breath

[Naam]

The euro is a macro-economic weapon of mass destruction - it simply must be defused.

yeah right! give the Germans the Deutsche Mark back and fix the exchange rate as it was (i still remember) 12 Marks to the Pound. that should teach the designers of WMD a lesson!

Edited November 20, 2011 by Naam

[churchill]

How long before southern European leaders start routinely blaming “the Germans” for domestic woes?

what a silly question! they have already started to blame "the Germans". thieves and frauds are blaming those from whom they have stolen and whom they defrauded. best is that the getting assistance from various sides with bitchings such as "Fourth Reich" and "Germany invading Europe with different means"

ridiculous but quite amusing are the bitchings in the British media. it's nothing but Germany's fault that "rule Britannia" is something of a long gone past

Lets wait and see Naam - The UK for all its problems is outside the Euro and has the " Queen " /

But of course we will never understand each other ..

Lost in translation

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/may/23/germany.features11

[churchill]

The euro is a macro-economic weapon of mass destruction - it simply must be defused.

yeah right! give the Germans the Deutsche Mark back and fix the exchange rate as it was (i still remember) 12 Marks to the Pound. that should teach the designers of WMD a lesson!

and Perhaps the Germans want to teach others a lesson ......

[jamescollister]

This war thing to fix the west would have worked if there was a real opponent. Iran would not last any longer than Iraq. China for all it's population is not capable of putting up much of a fight against the west. They are surrounded by superior forces. Russia to the north, Europe to the west Japan/US east and they are not one nation. The place would break up at the first strike.

If they go for war it has to be big and long and there is just no one out there to fight. Maybe they will find some bad aliens out there. Jim

because China's intercontinental ballistic missiles do not carry multiple nuclear warheads but just leftover fireworks from the last Chinese New Year celebrations.

That kind of war [nuclear] ' will fix all the problems. Not a long full scale combat, to get industry going. Don't believe that the west can not take out all of China's land base systems in a day and they are not big on subs. Jim

[BlackJack]

made some note from a financial adviser for what its worth

there is low risk of the EU imploding as it cannot allow it to happen as the consequences would be unprecedented - so all stops will be pulled out to avoid it

Germany is firmly in control as it has the largest trade surplus in the World and is using its power to force PIIGS into proper and meaningful austerity measures and not just talks

Raising the bond interest will force this through - ie Italy

China will be Ok as long as the above happens

Australias main trading market China will remain and increase its investments

Australian dollar will remain up and down until Germany gets things in the EU the way it should be - ie run like a Mercedes. At the moment its just Germany is just taking issues to the line to the EU that it is not going to continually bail out the PIIGS.

Christmas will still be on the 25th December and New years day will still be on the 1st January

Some things are certain.

[ronz28]

Home cold fusion device to sell for about 3500 Euros + 1500 Euros if you want to produce electricity as well as heat. see item 1.33 at

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_Rossi's_Cold_Fusion_Energy_Catalyzer_(E-Cat):_Frequently_Asked_Questions

Recover your cost in about one year from much lower energy bills and then very low energy bills thereafter.

Edit=Link doesn't seem to work at times through TV but works ok for me outside of TV.

Edited November 20, 2011 by ronz28

[flying]

Home cold fusion device to sell for about 3500 Euros + 1500 Euros if you want to produce electricity as well as heat. see item 1.33 at

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_Rossi's_Cold_Fusion_Energy_Catalyzer_(E-Cat):_Frequently_Asked_Questions

Recover your cost in about one year from much lower energy bills and then very low energy bills thereafter.

Edit=Link doesn't seem to work at times through TV but works ok for me outside of TV.

I think it is too long an address for paste to work...

Perhaps this?

Ronz link

Saw this too...

1 MW E-Cat Cold Fusion Device Test Successful

Edited November 20, 2011 by flying

[Naam]

Lets wait and see Naam - The UK for all its problems is outside the Euro and has the " Queen " /

not to forget a Crown Prince with a Rottweiler

[ronz28]

Home cold fusion device to sell for about 3500 Euros + 1500 Euros if you want to produce electricity as well as heat. see item 1.33 at

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_Rossi's_Cold_Fusion_Energy_Catalyzer_(E-Cat):_Frequently_Asked_Questions

Recover your cost in about one year from much lower energy bills and then very low energy bills thereafter.

Edit=Link doesn't seem to work at times through TV but works ok for me outside of TV.

I think it is too long an address for paste to work...

Perhaps this?

Ronz link

Saw this too...

1 MW E-Cat Cold Fusion Device Test Successful

Yes, that's it. Thanks. I guess it won't hit major media until its available for sale to the public. Perhaps the Greeks will get to buy it first in their 300,000 units per year production facility.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

One could believe that oil $$$ might be influencing the decision by the patent board in the US. I'm sure the oil interest will be willing to pay billions to block it's advancement and use.

Makes you want to take a trip to Greece and buy a couple. Fantastic invention. Hope it thrives.:clap2:

[Naam]

Yes, that's it. Thanks. I guess it won't hit major media until its available for sale to the public. Perhaps the Greeks will get to buy it first in their 300,000 units per year production facility.

claiming these kind of numbers sheds a bad light on the overall feasibility of the system and its inventor. anybody with a minimum of technical knowledge who took a brief look at the unit knows that it will take years to set up a production of this dimension.

the same goes for the claim "x units are working" but not revealing where they are working and who bought them. my first euphoria has been dented by the feeling "snake oil marketing".

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Yes, that's it. Thanks. I guess it won't hit major media until its available for sale to the public. Perhaps the Greeks will get to buy it first in their 300,000 units per year production facility.

claiming these kind of numbers sheds a bad light on the overall feasibility of the system and its inventor. anybody with a minimum of technical knowledge who took a brief look at the unit knows that it will take years to set up a production of this dimension.

the same goes for the claim "x units are working" but not revealing where they are working and who bought them. my first euphoria has been dented by the feeling "snake oil marketing".

Yes after reading about the problems between Rossi (the inventor), and the company that is building the units in

Greece. Either one or both are lying big time. Should have bookmark the article as it was most interesting, can't find it again but will keep trying.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Here is the thread that discusses the who's lying? Rossi or Defkalion Green Technologies Inc. Sorry don't know how to set it up to just click on it, you'll have to copy and paste.

http://pesn.com/2011/08/09/9501890_Rossi_Gives_Reason_for_Split_from_Defkalion/

[churchill]

Following emergency meetings over the last year they have now issued " A discussion paper "

EU paper weighs euro bond scenarios

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/eu-paper-weighs-euro-bond-scenarios-report-2011-11-21?link=MW_home_latest_news

We're all right Jack . we have our pensions benefits - No rush , no stress .. relax have another glass.... canape ?

[Naam]

EU paper weighs euro bond scenarios...

but Merkel says "nein!"

let's see how long she will remain stubborn

[churchill]

Are they being stupid , stubborn or is there a big plan naam

'“From there to here, from here to there, funny things are everywhere!”

― Dr. Seuss, One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish

http://brucekrasting.blogspot.com/2011/11/brandy_20.html

[Naam]

Are they being stupid , stubborn or is there a big plan naam

i don't think they are stupid Churchill and i don't think they have a big plan. they just refuse to adapt to realities and try to find a way to eat the cake and still have it.

Merkel hates to make hasty decisions and as far as the debt crisis is concerned she can't make unilateral decisions. but i'm afraid this time she hesitated too long to make any decision. a small dose of Maggie Thatcher's spirit might help.

[fletchsmile]

Are they being stupid , stubborn or is there a big plan naam

i don't think they are stupid Churchill and i don't think they have a big plan. they just refuse to adapt to realities and try to find a way to eat the cake and still have it.

....

They're just being themselves... politicians and Eurocrats. Over on the other side of the pond the American politicians are no better. We had the 15trio brinksmanship debacle about raising the debt ceiling a few weeks back, and the news today is their "Super"Committe can't agree on anything either. Their solution on cutting $1.2trio from their debt is even further away than the Euroidiots on their various measures and austerity measures.

Funnily enough they just had an American politican on Robert Andrews(?) who said they could save $500bio on defence. They can't even agree on that which is obvious. In fairness to him he mentioned they have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world 24/25 times over and he didn't want to pay for 26/27, and they could withdraw 2/3 troops in Korea etc, not even counting Iraq and Afghanistan ...

[ronz28]

Debunking The Banksters Big Lies blaming US Government lending for the Financial Crisis.

http://www.washingto...23cN_print.html

In fact the cause was the worldwide private banksters making ultra low interest rate mortgage loans relative to risk, lack of any real lending standards making subprime and liar loans to people who couldn't afford to repay, packaged/securitized the subprime and liar loans and deceptively marketed them to unsuspecting investors because they rated the securities "AAA" with the help of the paid credit rating agency co-conspirators and leveraged the securities with derivatives. I haven't heard of these people being jailed yet.

Edited November 21, 2011 by ronz28

[fletchsmile]

Debunking The Banksters Big Lies blaming US Government lending for the Financial Crisis.

http://www.washingto...23cN_print.html

In fact the cause was the worldwide private banksters making ultra low interest rate mortgage loans relative to risk, lack of any real lending standards making subprime and liar loans to people who couldn't afford to repay, packaged/securitized the subprime and liar loans and deceptively marketed them to unsuspecting investors because they rated the securities "AAA" with the help of the paid credit rating agency co-conspirators and leveraged the securities with derivatives. I haven't heard of these people being jailed yet.

Sounds like scapegoating again to me. Take the most obvious case of the US. The facts:

In the 70's the US was a net creditor to the world

In the 80's the US became a net debtor

In the 90's it became the world's largest debtor

This all pre-dates the current crises (plural).

Simply put the US has been spending more than it earns for years, and this eventually comes home to roost. Instead of trying to balance their budgets they have continued to print money. The US has relied for decades on the fact that the dollar is the world's reserve currency, and been complacent because of the unique position that puts them in.

Unfortunately the world is waking up to the fact that this is no longer sustainable. The dollar's days as the world reserve currency are numbered. Europe looks bad at the moment but the US has real issues that will crystallise dramatically once people start to find and implement alternative reserve currencies.

Many other western governments have also overspent, eg Greece. The difference to the US is they don't have the world's reserve currency. They're suffering for it now and will continue to suffer for some time yet unfortunately. However, when all this comes home to roost on the world's biggest debtor and no-one wants the dollar any more Europe will look like a picnic in comparison to what happens in the US

The banks input is just the tip of the iceberg. It's easier for politicians to deny reality and blame the banks. That's essentially what politicians the world over do - blame everyone else except themselves, the most important thing about their job is their own re-election. The sovereign debt problems are down to the governments. The banks have just aggravated the issues.

Edited November 21, 2011 by fletchsmile

[flying]

Sounds like scapegoating again to me. Take the most obvious case of the US. The facts:

Simply put the US has been spending more than it earns for years

The banks input is just the tip of the iceberg.

Agreed it is true the banks & the housing crisis is the tip or perhaps the most attention getting of the recent dominoes to fall.

But the truth is more in line with what you said.

US Government swollen to crazy size spending that which did not exist both on entitlements & a large part

to the Military Industrial Complex.

A big player/cause of the problems lay with The FED playing with interest rates to manipulate markets & fool folks into expansion when the reality is there should not have been the liquidity they made available to banks. Who then

made it available to those who should not have had it. Only to then chop & dice the loans into

packages to be insured...sold & bet against by those who made them...knowing they would surely fail.

Yes I also agree that the USD days as world reserve are numbered. But that does not suggest any other fiat is able to replace it. Perhaps that is what the true powers that be wanted all along. Who knows.....

Perhaps a new form is on the horizon but first & who knows for how long there will be much thrashing.

Maybe the simplest way forward is to allow competing currencies/money & let the people decide.( speaking of the USA in this case)

Edited November 21, 2011 by flying

[flying]

MF Global trustee doubles estimates of shortfall

* Says shortfall could be about $1.2 billion

* Regulators earlier had pegged shortfall at $600 million

* Efforts continue to get customers 60 percent recovery

Full article at link above

[Pedzie]

MF Global trustee doubles estimates of shortfall

* Says shortfall could be about $1.2 billion

* Regulators earlier had pegged shortfall at $600 million

* Efforts continue to get customers 60 percent recovery

Full article at link above

And the end result of all the financial chaos...A new global currency (within 10 years)

[fletchsmile]

Agreed it is true the banks & the housing crisis is the tip or perhaps the most attention getting of the recent dominoes to fall.

But the truth is more in line with what you said.

US Government swollen to crazy size spending that which did not exist both on entitlements & a large part

to the Military Industrial Complex.

A big player/cause of the problems lay with The FED playing with interest rates to manipulate markets & fool folks into expansion when the reality is there should not have been the liquidity they made available to banks. Who then

made it available to those who should not have had it. Only to then chop & dice the loans into

packages to be insured...sold & bet against by those who made them...knowing they would surely fail.

Yes I also agree that the USD days as world reserve are numbered. But that does not suggest any other fiat is able to replace it. Perhaps that is what the true powers that be wanted all along. Who knows.....

Perhaps a new form is on the horizon but first & who knows for how long there will be much thrashing.

Maybe the simplest way forward is to allow competing currencies/money & let the people decide.( speaking of the USA in this case)

As you say the $60 trillion question is what will replace the dollar. It will probably take some time too. The IMF's paper back in February shows serious consideration is being given to this, perhaps in forms of SDRs, and the Chinese have already initiated various methods of reducing dependence on solely the dollar as the international currrency, albeit they're still at early stages.

I see the first steps as some form of basket of currencies, for hopefully a managed transition. Perhaps a similar process to the ECU in the 90s.

Edited November 22, 2011 by fletchsmile

[ronz28]

So we have a multifaceted problem with flaws everywhere. I think certain banksters are responsible for blowing up the financial system and fiscal irresponsibility on the government's part hinders the government's ability to control the banksters.

To me, the US conducting trillion dollar+ wars on the taxpayer's credit card with tax cuts to all and especially the rich is at the root of our fiscal mess so ending the wars is a start in our return to fiscal responsibility and letting Bush's tax cuts expire is a second step. However, getting the financial system back under control and prosecuting the banksters is also essential to winding down the financial crisis or else history will continue to repeat itself but I don't hold out much hope for improving financial regulations with our current Congress. Congress also needs to quit taking money from social security trust funds and using it for other purposes like giving a payroll tax free holiday as a stimulus and not replacing the funds to the social security fund.

What a mess that MF Global is. So they doubled the amount of money they reported as missing and it is about $1.2 billion now. Well they should be able to follow the money trail and get it back or prove that it was stolen and gambled away on unauthorized transactions that perhaps could get reversed. Up to the lawyers and prosecutors now but it sounds like there are some future jailbirds walking around free now spending and hiding the money as fast as they can.

Each country has their own financial mess to deal with but some of it is similar to the US financial fiasco.

[flying]

To me, the US conducting trillion dollar+ wars on the taxpayer's

I agree with that part & imagine the truth is quite a bit higher than trillion +

when you factor in all the unfunded that we never see.

Taxes I am not so sure because the reality is the government is bloated & that is

another good place to start cutting.

But what really burns my motor is on occasion if I watch CNN they describe it like this....

For instance the inability for the super committee to make cuts they claim comes down to this....

Dems dont want to cut medicare & Social Security & Repubs done want to raise taxes....

How simplistic can they be? Why when they talk of cuts the things that were supposedly paid for

are mentioned first?

Because they have stolen from it & yes the sheer size of those paying in compared

to those taking out has swapped places. They did not see it coming?? Sure they did.

Why not talk about cutting back the hundreds of US Military bases worldwide?

Why not get the heck out of the ME wars of no result or legitimate reason?

Why not cut the size of the bloated Federal Government?

Raise taxes? On who? The rich? What percentage will that nick the outflow of money they dont have?

.0001%

Raise taxes on the wealthy only? Who will the wealthy pass that savings onto?

Either they think the citizens are really stupid or the citizens actually are....I can't decide

Edited November 22, 2011 by flying

[Naam]

"2012 will test what remains of euro resilience. The pivotal issue isn't

Europe's recession, which is guaranteed and discounted. The question is

whether 2012 delivers a Lehman-like sovereign event. ECB and IMF

funding will be required to prevent this outcome."

https://mm.jpmorgan.com/PubServlet?action=email&doc=GPS-730533-0.pdf