Financial Crisis

[12DrinkMore]

Weren't you decrying the falling prices a few days ago? Did you think fair and resonable measures would get them back up? C'mon!

Not me, I haven't seen any falling prices in my bills.

All I get is inflation coupled with falling Western currencies with no interest.

:D

[12DrinkMore]

Edit: For those of you that missed this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/business...rss&emc=rss

Oh come on Alex, they only want USD 306,000,000 back.

What is that compared to the USD 200,000,000,000 in bailouts?

It's just a trivial itsy bitsy sum in the quadrillions of vanishing assets?

And surely we don't begrudge this bunch of parasites "Sutherland Asbill & Brennan" their percentage of the payout?

[AlexLah]

You know there was a time that when you had a Million you would be rich.

Now the Millions became Billions and then Trillions.

I don't know what to think of this all.

Madness.

[lannarebirth]

Weren't you decrying the falling prices a few days ago? Did you think fair and resonable measures would get them back up? C'mon!

Not me, I haven't seen any falling prices in my bills.

All I get is inflation coupled with falling Western currencies with no interest.

I was referring to falling stock prices. You blamed "shorters". Fact is, shorters are the smart ones in the equities pig pile. Long holders need things like this policy abomination to make money. It's change you can bereave in.

[flying]

Whaddaya mean? It's always been a Ponzi scheme, and its always been shocking just what's legal within the scheme.

While not illegal per se'.............. Back in 99-2000 when I stopped all stock investing after working for large company. Being project manager & being privy to executive board meetings I saw how they cooked the books. I was not a young person but I guess I was very naive as I was pretty shocked by it. I mean everyone cheats in business some I guess but I was surprised by the amounts & gall of it all.

Also seeing the whole political contributions scheme from that angle & what it bought that company.

At that point I knew I was done investing in others.

[midas]

I also regard this latest move by Citibank as being a somewhat deceitful

move.. I mean it doesnt actually actually seem to acheive anything other than making

their stock prices look better than they really are ............?

Is Citigroup’s Reverse Stock Split a Smart Move?

Why does a reverse stock split makes sense for Citi? “Whether the stock is $1 or $3, it’s still a low-priced stock,” Schutz says. “If you are the leading financial services company in the world, the psychology of a low-priced stock isn’t going to fly.”

Ideally, Citigroup will aim for a reverse stock split that gets the current price to the $30 range, Schutz says. (Based on today’s price, it would roughly mean a reverse split of 10 shares for one share.)

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insi...itis_rever.html

Edited March 21, 2009 by midas

[Naam]

imagine there is a financial crisis and nobody goes there to attend

[12DrinkMore]

You know there was a time that when you had a Million you would be rich.

Now the Millions became Billions and then Trillions.

I don't know what to think of this all.

Madness.

And the worst is the original millions were assets, but all the billions and trillions are losses.

[lannarebirth]

I also regard this latest move by Citibank as being a somewhat deceitful

move.. I mean it doesnt actually actually seem to acheive anything other than making

their stock prices look better than they really are ............?

Is Citigroup's Reverse Stock Split a Smart Move?

Why does a reverse stock split makes sense for Citi? "Whether the stock is $1 or $3, it's still a low-priced stock," Schutz says. "If you are the leading financial services company in the world, the psychology of a low-priced stock isn't going to fly."

Ideally, Citigroup will aim for a reverse stock split that gets the current price to the $30 range, Schutz says. (Based on today's price, it would roughly mean a reverse split of 10 shares for one share.)

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insi...itis_rever.html

As I noted in a post several days ago, American markets (don't know about global) will need to see a lot of reverse stock splits in order to recover. There are companies like Citigroup that are anointed leaders of the market that just have too large of a float to get up off the floor, regardless how much they earn. Its a smart move.

[lannarebirth]

imagine there is a financial crisis and nobody goes there to attend

Every market has 4 stages. The accumulation, the markup, the distribution, and the markdown. We are clearly in the markdown phase, and everyone has become so innured to everything, they must rachet up the distress accordingly. Still, the profligate legislators came to attend, and I'm sure the tax collectors will make an appearance at the suitable hour.

[lannarebirth]

I also regard this latest move by Citibank as being a somewhat deceitful

move.. I mean it doesnt actually actually seem to acheive anything other than making

their stock prices look better than they really are ............?

Is Citigroup's Reverse Stock Split a Smart Move?

Why does a reverse stock split makes sense for Citi? "Whether the stock is $1 or $3, it's still a low-priced stock," Schutz says. "If you are the leading financial services company in the world, the psychology of a low-priced stock isn't going to fly."

Ideally, Citigroup will aim for a reverse stock split that gets the current price to the $30 range, Schutz says. (Based on today's price, it would roughly mean a reverse split of 10 shares for one share.)

http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insi...itis_rever.html

One other thing to note, and its no small thing, C is part of the DJIA which is a PRICE weighted index. Presumably you understand the implications.

Edited March 21, 2009 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

The Big Takeover:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story..._big_takeover/1

[AlexLah]

Thanks Lana for the link to the article.

I stopped reading at page 5.

I feel sick.

These guys must be lined up and their heads should be cut of on live TV.

I am very angry!

[badge]

[...]

It's change you can bereave in.

Haha! very good

[Nouf]

Turbo tax Timmy`s Plan has been leaked (that or this is a fake out)????

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/business/21bank.html?_r=1

i am no economist but the concept seems to envolve 85% from the FDIC, the other 15% from the treasury (and that 15% its made up of 3% from the private buyers and 97% from the Treasury)

this is a NO brainer as the risk is virtually nothing yet the gains are massive

of course thats provided that all those mortgagees can continue paying and the US recovers, and no one is loosing their job etc

and we all live happly ever after, and sing Kum by Ya

As this stuff is Insured by the FDIC, if this goes bad , my take is that this going back to the US tax payers, ie if these bets are crap and worthless, then the US is going to folk out these on the back of the FDIC insurance

So the garbage paper is taken of the books of the banks, so maybe they get a haircount say 60c on the $, but its better than the mark to market, which is 0, as there is no one wanting to buy this paper

but there will be buyers now under this plan, so that gets the paper off the books from the banks and under the wings of the Hedge funds and private holders

Under the assurance that if this goes "belly up" then they only loose 3% (their intial up front money)

seems like its a win/win for the private investor as the US taxpayer gets screwed if this goes wrong, and not the banks as they get to sell this garbage now, only for the private investor to reap the reward on some of the paper, and the the nasty stuff goes back to the FDIC which in turn is the US tax payer

man this is a real gamble

As its balantly obvious that this is scam to off load all those bad bets from the Banks, create a market place for that paper, thus the banks wont care as the US taxpayer gets it rollay in the anus if this goes wrong as the FDIC as to fork out the money

I guess the FDIC is going to need backstopping by the tune of a few extra 100`s of billions or maybe trillions???

it will be interesting to see how much on the $ the banks get to sell this junk paper, or even if the banks agree to sell it

because even if the do have a buyer, thats not to say they want to sell at that price, as technically they could be bankrupt from the sale, but i guess Bernanke comments on 60 mins that NO bank is going to fail, simply said it all, they can sell this paper at 10c on the $ the FED and the Treasury is going to save all the Major players

Hence why Citi, BAC is still trading, and will Never go BK, as they are all part of the "club"

Hmmmm wonder how long the US public figure out if this goes belly up that they are in the line via the FDIC to pay for any of the garbage that is worthless and not the banks or even the private investor the risk is all on the US taxpayer

well that`s what it seems to me, and most that have studied the plan

its a form of nationalisation of the crappy paper, as the good stuff goes to the private hedge funds where they can make a ton of money, the bad stuff comes back to the US public,but not nationalising the banks, as they get to benefit in full along with the Private hedge that buy this paper, only we are back to where we started, the brunt of this all falls back to the US tax payer while the real scammers carry on as usual

i still say Obama is one of the clowns , He has to be in on it, as he is advocating this crap, why else do you see him day in day out on TV chat shows, and interviews, he knows that his gets out of Hand is Good bye and the public turn on him

When will the US public wake up????

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/...asset-plan.html

Edited March 22, 2009 by Nouf

[flying]

but i guess Bernanke comments on 60 mins that NO bank is going to fail

So by that do they mean CitiBank only?

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/20/news/compa...sion=2009032020

[Nouf]

but i guess Bernanke comments on 60 mins that NO bank is going to fail

So by that do they mean CitiBank only?

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/20/news/compa...sion=2009032020

No it was my impression that bernanke has basically said he will back stop ALL the primary dealers, the likes of the gang in wall street

Again he stated that they would support these Bankrupt banks and slowly wind them down (now thats not a bad idea, if they actually do that)

whats really happening is that in reality they just keep pumping money after money after money, there is no end in sight as far as i can see, and the US treasury is going to back stop everything,

Even now they are looking at the Banks and seeing if they pass the stress test, What stress test, if they dont have enough money they will simply make up the short fall

its simply left, the other minor banks to fail, but the Bigger banks like BAC & Citi, and any other in the "gang" will be back stopped no matter what the consequences

When this gets out of hand (which i am sure it will) then the pitch folks come out, but i guess American Idol is still on the TV

look the AIG situation, the "real" crime is giving the $185 Billion, yet CONgress via the the hissy fit from Barney frank and Schumer are complaning about a small fraction of that amounts from the Bonuses

AIG should never of been given the money in the 1st place, Yet, i read on a forum somewhere that Goldman had made money on the collapse of AIG and that even thou they said that AIG owned them money and they wanted AIG to honour the CDS, they had also profited on the Collapse of AIG

you cant make the crap up, they hedged the CDS with another that AIG would fail lol

i mean its a joke, that Congress complain about the $165 million yet they dont seemed too worried about $185 Billion

it seems like a smoke screen with the back lash from the US public thats why they forced through the 90% rule

Congress crapped themselves, and eventuallly the US public will finally see what the likes of Pelosi, Frank, Dodd, Schumer, and the other CONgress members that they have been robbed

Look at Chris Dodd getting exposed for his BS, when he had to try and back track, and then dump the situation of AIG on the Turbo Timmy, said one thing one day then another he changed his mind when the truth came out

it will be everyone for themselves soon, the Public is becoming more aware they have been duped, and IMO it wont belong before the Public sees Obama for what he really is and thats a Wall street Stooge for the Bankers and the "old skool" wall street Elite

I really can see the Public waking up soon and saying NO MORE, they are literally taking the Piss Now in broad daylight, and even the simpliest of folks have worked this out

Why would Obama need to go on Jay Leno (he is crapping himslef that this is getting out of hand) and rightly so

Once the public turn on Obama (which i sure they will soon) just like they turned on Bush, then we really see the fireworks, right now its just getting started, and he has the honey moon period, he can t bluff his way for ever,(him having confidence in Geithner really sealed it for me) i think Obama simply has not Clue what he is doing,

Granted he has alot to deal with, but from what i have seen, he is BUSH in a different suit and NO changes i can see the sdame old gang doing the same old stunts

The FED along with the Treasury are royally screwing the US public in every orifice.

I watch with Interest what the DX and the Bond markets does, because that was some move last Wednesday and i do wonder if that was the start of something more trend based

Edited March 22, 2009 by Nouf

[flying]

Seems like letting the big banks fail & instead helping the smaller banks

& the people directly might be the better way.

Or perhaps the best way is just let the thing die.........Like any other sick beyond help infected mess.

http://www.arthurmag.com/2009/03/16/let-it...on-the-economy/

We do not live in an economy, we live in a Ponzi scheme.Using future tax dollars to give banks more money to lend out at interest is robbing from the poor to pay the rich to rob from the poor.

[flying]

I really can see the Public waking up soon and saying NO MORE, they are literally taking the Piss Now in broad daylight, and even the simpliest of folks have worked this out

Why would Obama need to go on Jay Leno (he is crapping himslef that this is getting out of hand) and rightly so

Once the public turn on Obama (which i sure they will soon) just like they turned on Bush, then we really see the fireworks, right now its just getting started, and he has the honey moon period, he can t bluff his way for ever,(him having confidence in Geithner really sealed it for me) i think Obama simply has not Clue what he is doing,

Granted he has alot to deal with, but from what i have seen, he is BUSH in a different suit and NO changes i can see the sdame old gang doing the same old stunts

The FED along with the Treasury are royally screwing the US public in every orifice.

I agree & really am wondering where I want to be for it all.

Something I had been meaning to mention & keep forgetting......

When leaving the USA a month ago I came across a bit of interrogation the likes of which I had never been subject to before.

Everyone knows the no more than 10k cash rule....... But this time there were 3-4 officers asking each & every passenger moving into the final boarding area to state whether or not they had more than that.

Fine this has never happened before but the way they did it was almost invasive.

The one large guard speaking to my wife said DO you have more than 10 k cash?

Before I could jump in my wife asked you mean just me alone? That was it he jumped all over her saying things like.........Ok now you make me think your hiding something....When I ask do you have more than 10k I mean 10k & I dont care if it is you or you & your husband.

So I jump in & say yes I do whats the problem? He then pulls us out of line where we stand aside with what looks like 10 other couples at least & are asked to fill out the forms.

Normally I would just say no & figure if we each have less than 10k its fine. But he grabbed my wife first & interrogated her to where she seemed confused.

But it just seemed odd & like I said never before have I seen guards asking this. Just a sign saying it was a law to declare...............Interesting ?

[Naam]

Why would Obama need to go on Jay Leno (he is crapping himslef that this is getting out of hand) and rightly so.

definitely a wiser decision than going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan!

[Naam]

but i guess Bernanke comments on 60 mins that NO bank is going to fail

So by that do they mean CitiBank only?

any big bank with international [derivative] ties is meant. let another bank, the size of Lehman, fail and you will think the present crisis is a relaxing walk in the park on a mild day in spring.

[AlexLah]

Just curious Fly, what is the legal status of those "Interrogators"

If they are official police/immigration officers you just simply reply: Am I obliged to answer your question or just don't say anything is maybe even better.

[flying]

Just curious Fly, what is the legal status of those "Interrogators"

If they are official police/immigration officers you just simply reply: Am I obliged to answer your question or just don't say anything is maybe even better.

They appear to be customs officials.............They gave the impression that if they felt your hiding something & do not want to prove it they could detain you to the point of missing your flight.

So your asked to fill in forms. They never went as far as asking to empty pockets in out case but I did see a man who looked Asian empty his money belt for them to see.

Like I said if I had been 1st it would not have been a problem. But because English is not my wife's first language she asked for clarification.......DOH That set it off.

But still as I said I had never been subject to this verbal questioning before. Has anyone else?

[flying]

but i guess Bernanke comments on 60 mins that NO bank is going to fail

So by that do they mean CitiBank only?

any big bank with international [derivative] ties is meant. let another bank, the size of Lehman, fail and you will think the present crisis is a relaxing walk in the park on a mild day in spring.

How so?

I have the impression we are facing a collapse. So I wonder what would make it seem like a relaxing walk?

I can understand it maybe would be a quicker collapse but in the end isn't the prize the same for both?

Not that I do not appreciate the extra time to prepare as best we can.

[AlexLah]

I had similair situations when I travelled a lot to the UK flying in from Amsterdam, they even one time stripsearched me luckily I was able to avoid the latex glove thinghy.

The US and UK are really becoming fascist police states and the EU seems to follow as well.

Therefore it's good to know your rights.

Anyway back on topic.

To me it seems that with all this injections of funny paper they are just controlling the crash a bit and a few peeps benefit of that.

[Naam]

but i guess Bernanke comments on 60 mins that NO bank is going to fail

So by that do they mean CitiBank only?

any big bank with international [derivative] ties is meant. let another bank, the size of Lehman, fail and you will think the present crisis is a relaxing walk in the park on a mild day in spring.

How so?

I have the impression we are facing a collapse. So I wonder what would make it seem like a relaxing walk? I can understand it maybe would be a quicker collapse but in the end isn't the prize the same for both? Not that I do not appreciate the extra time to prepare as best we can.

a total collapse can be still avoided, albeit at extremely high future cost for the taxpayers who will still have jobs and the hunger of people who don't. the alternative (you and others ask for) is a global freeze of all transactions, not limited to financial transactions but including trading of any goods, an unemployment rate of unheard dimensions, breakdown of utility supplies and health care due to insufficient energy supplies... just to name a few "small problems" without much reference to the fact that then the apocalyptic riders would really gallop.

do you really think all politicians of this planet, who endorse the present measures of bailing out banks and injecting money into the economies (i don't know any who don't!), are plain stupid morons?

[flying]

do you really think all politicians of this planet, who endorse the present measures of bailing out banks and injecting money into the economies (i don't know any who don't!), are plain stupid morons?

Well having pretty much turned a blind eye to it while probably lining their pockets I would say

YES!!!!!!!

but I would add they are plain stupid blind when it suits them greedy morons

[lannarebirth]

a total collapse can be still avoided, albeit at extremely high future cost for the taxpayers who will still have jobs and the hunger of people who don't. the alternative (you and others ask for) is a global freeze of all transactions, not limited to financial transactions but including trading of any goods, an unemployment rate of unheard dimensions, breakdown of utility supplies and health care due to insufficient energy supplies... just to name a few "small problems" without much reference to the fact that then the apocalyptic riders would really gallop.

do you really think all politicians of this planet, who endorse the present measures of bailing out banks and injecting money into the economies (i don't know any who don't!), are plain stupid morons?

I agree that's a possible outcome and efforts should continue to see it doesn't happen. That said, I don't know of too many politicians that aren't stupid morons. After all it was their own action and/or inaction that allowed this situation to develop as it has. They need to restore confidence, and by that I don't mean raising asset values. Confidence instead that they understand what they have wrought and are actively engaged in schemes not only to remedy that but to ensure there will be no repeat episodes in the future. I'm seeing nothing like that.

[Naam]

do you really think all politicians of this planet, who endorse the present measures of bailing out banks and injecting money into the economies (i don't know any who don't!), are plain stupid morons?

Well having pretty much turned a blind eye to it while probably lining their pockets I would say YES!!!!!!!

hmmm... there wasn't much time for the irish immigrant O'Bama to line his pocket, was it?

[Naam]

a total collapse can be still avoided, albeit at extremely high future cost for the taxpayers who will still have jobs and the hunger of people who don't. the alternative (you and others ask for) is a global freeze of all transactions, not limited to financial transactions but including trading of any goods, an unemployment rate of unheard dimensions, breakdown of utility supplies and health care due to insufficient energy supplies... just to name a few "small problems" without much reference to the fact that then the apocalyptic riders would really gallop.

do you really think all politicians of this planet, who endorse the present measures of bailing out banks and injecting money into the economies (i don't know any who don't!), are plain stupid morons?

I agree that's a possible outcome and efforts should continue to see it doesn't happen. That said, I don't know of too many politicians that aren't stupid morons. After all it was their own action and/or inaction that allowed this situation to develop as it has. They need to restore confidence, and by that I don't mean raising asset values. Confidence instead that they understand what they have wrought and are actively engaged in schemes not only to remedy that but to ensure there will be no repeat episodes in the future. I'm seeing nothing like that.

in hindsight that statement is valid. but if there was no crisis governments would be blamed of too much interference.