Red Shirts Threaten To Blockade Government House On Saturday

[TAWP]

Did they lie that Abhisit did not join the Army?

No, but it has no merit on anything whatsoever. What is next, female MPs have to be virgins to be considered clean?

It actually has considerable relevance --- and would apply equally to female MPs virgins or no. (Oh --- so cutesy--- well done!) When someone uses power privilege and position to avoid a national obligation which applies to all Thai males -- then he is a grub. He feels above the "ordinary people" and that the rules do not apply to him --- just the kind of national leader all Thais can admire.

Ah, tig28 is back and dives straight into straw man arguments. Of course it would have relevance, if it was in fact illegal. It is not.

Or I should qualify it with: The case as presented [by Koo82] isn't illegal. Still waiting for details on what supposedly happened and the reason for their claim.

And why it matters.

Edited January 31, 2009 by TAWP

[Koo82]

By 3pm, 31 Jan, about 10 to 12 reds have joined the big meeting at Sanam Luang

Edited January 31, 2009 by Koo82

[Koo82]

Abhisit did not join the Army as required by Thai law. The details said by Jatupon of Truth Today is that Abhisit did not register with military so he did not have the Certificate Number 43.

After becoming PM and people questioned him, he showed his old photo (very handsome) wearing military uniform when he taught in Military Institute for about a month.

The issue is, in order to apply for this teaching job, he had to have the #43 for a complete application. He of course did not have.

He then managed to have a fake #43. The person who issued this fake certificate was fired for this reason.

When Abhisit became PM, he said he would make laws become laws and everyone live under laws.

Can he stop joking? He himself did not join the Army.

Now other Thai boys can say, if our PM did not join the Army, why do I have to?

[Koo82]

Police and Army are ready to block the reds, not letting them walk towards the Government House direction. Although the reds announced many times that they don't go inside the Government House, no one believes them.

Very strange that no Army and no Police have stopped the yellows from blocking the GH for 3 months.

[TAWP]

When Abhisit became PM, he said he would make laws become laws and everyone live under laws.

Can he stop joking? He himself did not join the Army.

Now other Thai boys can say, if our PM did not join the Army, why do I have to?

How many posts have you posted about this single point now?

And I think it would be a great thing if NO boys HAD to join the army.

That's not how you build an army of professionals.

[sbk]

Now other Thai boys can say, if our PM did not join the Army, why do I have to?

I am sorry Koo, but you must not know many Thai men. I've been hearing complaints about the military draft lottery for the 20 years that I have lived here. At least where I live, very few wish to go, even fewer will join local forces or the school ROTC. Most go, pray they don't pick the wrong color and if they do, don't show up for duty. I'd have to say I know quite a few who have either not shown up for duty or shown up for duty and gone AWOL on their first leave.

And this was when Thaksin was prime minister so I don't see how it can be blamed on him or Abhisit..

Frankly, you are grasping at straws here. Perhaps its better if you stick to the updates about the rally since you seem more knowledgeable about that.

I do hope that those are your photos you are posting here and not posting some news source's photos without acknowledging the source.

[jdinasia]

Agreed SBK ... anyone with any male Thai friends know enough about the draft to not spout this kind of silliness.

as for unattributed photos ... well .... I foresee trouble coming!

Now other Thai boys can say, if our PM did not join the Army, why do I have to?

I am sorry Koo, but you must not know many Thai men. I've been hearing complaints about the military draft lottery for the 20 years that I have lived here. At least where I live, very few wish to go, even fewer will join local forces or the school ROTC. Most go, pray they don't pick the wrong color and if they do, don't show up for duty. I'd have to say I know quite a few who have either not shown up for duty or shown up for duty and gone AWOL on their first leave.

And this was when Thaksin was prime minister so I don't see how it can be blamed on him or Abhisit..

Frankly, you are grasping at straws here. Perhaps its better if you stick to the updates about the rally since you seem more knowledgeable about that.

I do hope that those are your photos you are posting here and not posting some news source's photos without acknowledging the source.

[hammered]

Police and Army are ready to block the reds, not letting them walk towards the Government House direction. Although the reds announced many times that they don't go inside the Government House, no one believes them.

Very strange that no Army and no Police have stopped the yellows from blocking the GH for 3 months.

It is very difficult for anyone to use street demos right now. The level of public support for them is very low and the public support for action against anyone going to far on a street demo is high. The yellows sucked all of the oxygen out of street demos in Thailand for some time. The reds ironically are the ones who inherit this situation and who are limited by it.

One little problem on the streets by yellow or red and there will be support to sort it. The yellows however are not demonstrating.

The meme that the reds are looking to storm GH at 9PM tonight has also been created. It may well not be true but tactically it creates a lose-lose situation for the reds.

If they do the sensible thing and dont go anywhere near GH they look weak

If they go to GH and then disperse it looks like the police prevented their plan

If they go to GH and go beserk nothing needs to be said

The reds need to seriously find some new leadership and strategists if they are not to be constantly outmanouvered leading to infighting, division and loss of morale in all but the hardcore.

[h90]

Police and Army are ready to block the reds, not letting them walk towards the Government House direction. Although the reds announced many times that they don't go inside the Government House, no one believes them.

Very strange that no Army and no Police have stopped the yellows from blocking the GH for 3 months.

It is very difficult for anyone to use street demos right now. The level of public support for them is very low and the public support for action against anyone going to far on a street demo is high. The yellows sucked all of the oxygen out of street demos in Thailand for some time. The reds ironically are the ones who inherit this situation and who are limited by it.

One little problem on the streets by yellow or red and there will be support to sort it. The yellows however are not demonstrating.

The meme that the reds are looking to storm GH at 9PM tonight has also been created. It may well not be true but tactically it creates a lose-lose situation for the reds.

If they do the sensible thing and dont go anywhere near GH they look weak

If they go to GH and then disperse it looks like the police prevented their plan

If they go to GH and go beserk nothing needs to be said

The reds need to seriously find some new leadership and strategists if they are not to be constantly outmanouvered leading to infighting, division and loss of morale in all but the hardcore.

To add the support for the reds without payment is very low, maybe a few hundred people all over Thailand. Most of the paid one on the other side, like to invest the money in lao kao pretty fast. That often caused demonstrations ended in nothing as most people wanted to sit/sleep and enjoy their drink and just 200 hardcore continue with their demonstration.

Corruption is the other problem. Most of Thaksins money ends in some pockets instead of buying mob. so if he pays for 10.000 people just 5.000 arrive.

As bigger it gets as less it can be controlled.

[hammered]

Police and Army are ready to block the reds, not letting them walk towards the Government House direction. Although the reds announced many times that they don't go inside the Government House, no one believes them.

Very strange that no Army and no Police have stopped the yellows from blocking the GH for 3 months.

It is very difficult for anyone to use street demos right now. The level of public support for them is very low and the public support for action against anyone going to far on a street demo is high. The yellows sucked all of the oxygen out of street demos in Thailand for some time. The reds ironically are the ones who inherit this situation and who are limited by it.

One little problem on the streets by yellow or red and there will be support to sort it. The yellows however are not demonstrating.

The meme that the reds are looking to storm GH at 9PM tonight has also been created. It may well not be true but tactically it creates a lose-lose situation for the reds.

If they do the sensible thing and dont go anywhere near GH they look weak

If they go to GH and then disperse it looks like the police prevented their plan

If they go to GH and go beserk nothing needs to be said

The reds need to seriously find some new leadership and strategists if they are not to be constantly outmanouvered leading to infighting, division and loss of morale in all but the hardcore.

To add the support for the reds without payment is very low, maybe a few hundred people all over Thailand. Most of the paid one on the other side, like to invest the money in lao kao pretty fast. That often caused demonstrations ended in nothing as most people wanted to sit/sleep and enjoy their drink and just 200 hardcore continue with their demonstration.

Corruption is the other problem. Most of Thaksins money ends in some pockets instead of buying mob. so if he pays for 10.000 people just 5.000 arrive.

As bigger it gets as less it can be controlled.

Add on the story (it doesnt matter true or not) a month ago that went around that all things red were paying 1000 baht a day for mercenaries and now that amount is expected by those that attend to boost numbers in return for dosh. Reportedly the 300 baht offered in Lampang didnt cut it yesterday.

I would personally estimate the red shirt hardore (excluding mercenaries) in the thousands rather than hundreds countrywide. However, not enough without the paid boost to really make a rally look succesful. It is going to be expensive to fund an ongoing series of demos, and we shouldnt forget that the reds have to shut down the ASEAN conference or something if they are going to do what they said.

Indeed corruption is a problem. The agents have been pocketing the bosses dosh for some time now leading to lower numebrs than expected.

[hammered]

The Post reporting red shirts damaging CCTV cameras on Sanam Luang to GH route on Friday night, while the BKK governor announces demonstrators will be treated fairly and given mobile toilets.

This government know how to play the game. Be reasonable and fair and let your opponents cause their own problems for themselves without giving any ammunition.

Post article at: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...t-house-damaged

[Koo82]

TNN said about 50 reds in Korat around 3pm today couldn't go to Bangkok because the buses they booked didn't come. They tried to find alternatives.

Many forces have tried to slow them down. News said this group won't come, that group won't come.

[hammered]

TNN said about 50 reds in Korat around 3pm today couldn't go to Bangkok because the buses they booked didn't come. They tried to find alternatives.

Many forces have tried to slow them down. News said this group won't come, that group won't come.

Considering that in Khorat the bus companies are controlled by a prominent PTP MP that is weird. Maybe she is hurting at the tax being put back on diesel.

Many red groups have announced they wont attend today's event. The loss of Newin has impacted heavily as has the loss of faith in the Bangkok based leadership by many provincial red groups. The red groups in the provinces also are feeling the pressure from locals who want the government to be given a chance although the internal divisons are more likely what is causing stay aways today.

[Koo82]

Finally around 5pm today, about 50 people are at Sanam Luang. Some 20 people will arrive around 7pm.

Reason: Mr. T has no money to hire them to protest

[Koo82]

Many red groups have announced they wont attend today's event.

No problem. They have never come since the beginning. Reds are not forced to come. They are free to go in and go out any time.

[hammered]

Finally around 5pm today, about 50 people are at Sanam Luang. Some 20 people will arrive around 7pm.

Reason: Mr. T has no money to hire them to protest

They were always going to get a reasonable turn out even without the various Isaan groups that announced they were staying away. They wouldnt have called the demo otherwise. Enjoy your day Koo. Hope it all stays calm for you.

[h90]

Police and Army are ready to block the reds, not letting them walk towards the Government House direction. Although the reds announced many times that they don't go inside the Government House, no one believes them.

Very strange that no Army and no Police have stopped the yellows from blocking the GH for 3 months.

It is very difficult for anyone to use street demos right now. The level of public support for them is very low and the public support for action against anyone going to far on a street demo is high. The yellows sucked all of the oxygen out of street demos in Thailand for some time. The reds ironically are the ones who inherit this situation and who are limited by it.

One little problem on the streets by yellow or red and there will be support to sort it. The yellows however are not demonstrating.

The meme that the reds are looking to storm GH at 9PM tonight has also been created. It may well not be true but tactically it creates a lose-lose situation for the reds.

If they do the sensible thing and dont go anywhere near GH they look weak

If they go to GH and then disperse it looks like the police prevented their plan

If they go to GH and go beserk nothing needs to be said

The reds need to seriously find some new leadership and strategists if they are not to be constantly outmanouvered leading to infighting, division and loss of morale in all but the hardcore.

To add the support for the reds without payment is very low, maybe a few hundred people all over Thailand. Most of the paid one on the other side, like to invest the money in lao kao pretty fast. That often caused demonstrations ended in nothing as most people wanted to sit/sleep and enjoy their drink and just 200 hardcore continue with their demonstration.

Corruption is the other problem. Most of Thaksins money ends in some pockets instead of buying mob. so if he pays for 10.000 people just 5.000 arrive.

As bigger it gets as less it can be controlled.

Add on the story (it doesnt matter true or not) a month ago that went around that all things red were paying 1000 baht a day for mercenaries and now that amount is expected by those that attend to boost numbers in return for dosh. Reportedly the 300 baht offered in Lampang didnt cut it yesterday.

I would personally estimate the red shirt hardore (excluding mercenaries) in the thousands rather than hundreds countrywide. However, not enough without the paid boost to really make a rally look succesful. It is going to be expensive to fund an ongoing series of demos, and we shouldnt forget that the reds have to shut down the ASEAN conference or something if they are going to do what they said.

Indeed corruption is a problem. The agents have been pocketing the bosses dosh for some time now leading to lower numebrs than expected.

there were several activities from the reds in bangkok with just 90-200 people. That is in my opinion the amount of people who come on their own without receiving $$$. There might be a few thousand who would come without payment, if it is no hassle (bus is paid, food available, etc).

Do you know that interview with upset demonstrators who went in the stadium but were upset because they got promised: go to bangkok, food AND visit the zoo. But they didn't go to the zoo.....

When Abhisit now starts handing out money like Thaksin than the support will be even more reduced.

[h90]

Finally around 5pm today, about 50 people are at Sanam Luang. Some 20 people will arrive around 7pm.

Reason: Mr. T has no money to hire them to protest

Mr. T has enough money, don't worry.....at 500 Baht a person he can finance it for the next 10 years.

[Koo82]

At the Government House now, Police and Army are there. They have about 30 vehicles and are ready to spray water to the reds if they get hot. Note that during the PAD nuts' protests, no Police and Army were doing anything to stop them from blocking Government House and airports.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Koo82

[ballpoint]

At the Government House now, Police and Army are there. They have about 30 vehicles and are ready to spray water to the reds if they get hot. Note that during the PAD nuts' protests, no Police and Army were doing anything to stop them from blocking Government House and airports.

You're correct. I blame the goverment of the time for failing to keep law and order. This goverment is doing a much better job at it.

[baht&sold]

CCTVs around Govt House damaged

Bangkok Post Jan 31, 2009

Bangkok governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra vowed to give red-shirt supporters a fair treatment, adding that Bangkok Metropolitan Administration is ready to provide them mobile restrooms if they request for them.

To ensur fair treatment, MR Sukhumbhand, a Democrat, said he has assigned City clerk Pongsak Semsant to take care of the matter.

Red-shirt members started gathering at Sanam Luang on Saturday evening to hold anti-government rally and demand removal of Foreign Minister Kasit Pirom.

MR Sukhumbhand then called on protesters not to damage state property.

Many closed-circuit televisions along roads from Sanam Luang to the Government House have been damaged on Friday night, he revealed.

(article link)

[jdinasia]

At the Government House now, Police and Army are there. They have about 30 vehicles and are ready to spray water to the reds if they get hot. Note that during the PAD nuts' protests, no Police and Army were doing anything to stop them from blocking Government House and airports.

You're correct. I blame the goverment of the time for failing to keep law and order. This goverment is doing a much better job at it.

HUH? short memories?

The police didn't stop the Reds from attacking the yellows on Sept 2nd .... and then the police used up all their credibility in crowd control on Oct 7th when they killed 2 and wounded 400+ other people!

[BigSnake]

What goes around, comes around

[sbk]

At the Government House now, Police and Army are there. They have about 30 vehicles and are ready to spray water to the reds if they get hot. Note that during the PAD nuts' protests, no Police and Army were doing anything to stop them from blocking Government House and airports.

These photos appear to be screen captures from Channel 3 TV.

Please be sure to post the sources of your photos, thanks.

[ballpoint]

At the Government House now, Police and Army are there. They have about 30 vehicles and are ready to spray water to the reds if they get hot. Note that during the PAD nuts' protests, no Police and Army were doing anything to stop them from blocking Government House and airports.

You're correct. I blame the goverment of the time for failing to keep law and order. This goverment is doing a much better job at it.

HUH? short memories?

The police didn't stop the Reds from attacking the yellows on Sept 2nd .... and then the police used up all their credibility in crowd control on Oct 7th when they killed 2 and wounded 400+ other people!

Maybe I should have put a smiley in for the benefit of the slower forum members who find sarcasm too subtle.

[hammered]

At the Government House now, Police and Army are there. They have about 30 vehicles and are ready to spray water to the reds if they get hot. Note that during the PAD nuts' protests, no Police and Army were doing anything to stop them from blocking Government House and airports.

You're correct. I blame the goverment of the time for failing to keep law and order. This goverment is doing a much better job at it.

HUH? short memories?

The police didn't stop the Reds from attacking the yellows on Sept 2nd .... and then the police used up all their credibility in crowd control on Oct 7th when they killed 2 and wounded 400+ other people!

This government are playing a very clever game. They are not baiting their opponents and are playing along game knowing that public sympathy is not with demonstrators now. The yellows sucked all the oxygen from that tactic and now the reds are inheriting conditions not conducive for what they are doing.

Abhisit in the international speech tonight got it right when he said the public no linger supported this kind of thing. lets just hope the red leaders dont get goaded into doing something silly. Going home with ones tail between ones legs is better than violence.

[jdinasia]

The Demos have for the most part tried very hard over the last 5 years to NOT argue publicly. The occasional statement and then back to doing whatever they were doing. (which may be why they have not gathered much momentum in all that time! but they have certainly distanced themselves in many ways from the other groups on the political scene by not playing the 'squabble game'. Even when they ran the "no vote' campaign they stayed out of most personality struggles.

[Koo82]

The reds are walking to Government House now.

[h90]

from:http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/136101/udd-wants-lese-majeste-lifted

UDD wants lese majeste lifted

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 31/01/2009 at 08:26 PM

The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on Saturday started gathering names on a petition for lifting lese majeste law.

At the UDD rally in Sanam Luang, anti-government speakers took turns lambasting the coalition government led by the Democrat party. They accused the Democrats of lacking the legitimacy to set up the government, adding that they were supported by the army and government officials, not the general public.

UDD core member and Puea Thai party MP Jatuporn Prompan reiterated that the red-shirt protesters will move to rally around Government House at 9pm, pressuring the government to dismiss Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya, take legal action against the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) and dissolve the lower house.

more at> http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...-majeste-lifted

It can't be discussed here, but it surprise me that they tell so open about what they want.

[Journalist]

Abhisit in the international speech tonight got it right when he said the public no linger supported this kind of thing.

Isn't this the political equivalent of picking up the football and declaring the game over the moment after you score the winning goal?