Is There A Lot Of Racism Toward Children Of Mixed Ethnicities?

[jubby]

No, they'll marry old farangs

No they'll Marry nobody if I can help it ;-) But seriously Its a big worry, one of the few I have. And I guess slightly off Topic so I will desist.

[DaraRai]

Thailand used to be very biased towards "look-kreungs" (mixed children), but in the past decade or so, Thai culture and society has become very accepting of mixed children. Even in the Thai entertainment industry, which used to be very closed off to mixed individuals and heavily concentrated in full Thai individuals, look-kreungs are everywhere, composing about 80% of the entertainment industry. So the culture has grown very acceptive of mixed children.

[Bowery99]

I can't read the whole thread (it turned sour as most topics do on this forum), just my quick thoughts. There is harsher racism in Korea (I was there for a year and a half), but here it is more about your status (and money) then there.

I think your kid will get by ok, as Koreans are "cute" in many Thai opinions and they have money (and so do you because you are farang). Since you are a teacher your child will go to school here for free. The fact is that schools here and in Korea teach rote learning (and in Korea they go to school for much longer periods of time, during a day) and kids who learn that way get better test scores. That all being said you should teach your kid how to think because both systems will not produce indepentant thinkers. They will not learn to question which is why IMO a western education can be better.

So if they go through a system like that and you keep them open to questioning what is taken as authority in either here or in Korea they should be fine. Here the kids play, something really lacking in Korea IMO. Glass ceilings are everywhere, if you don't come from a great named family in the US, it is much much more likely you won't go to Yale or Harvard either. In societies pedigree counts for something.

Edited February 1, 2009 by Bowery99

[Geekfreaklover]

As they are Girls I'm saving my concerns for the teenage years . Shotgun anyone ?

I raised this concern in another thread, but was quickly shot down by the ThaiWannabes. The premise of my thread was essentially, Thailand is very much a male dominated society and that raising a daughter here might lead to her being treated as a trophy wife as a luk krung and not an equal partner to her husband.

The general consensus was that I hate Thailand and that your daughter will end up marrying someone good or bad depending on how you raise her.

I laugh at both responses, as if the lack of feminism in Thailand does not have an effect on every male and female being raised here. Its like supposing "If you raise your kids in South Bronx, they won't end up dealing drugs if you teach them not to"... Ah, yeah, your role as a parent matters, but the environment your child grows up in is also going to be a big factor.

If the vast majority of Thai males are adulterers (And I am not passing moral judgment, just stating a fact), than it is highly likely that our luk krung daughters will grow up to marry an adulterer themselvses. Right?

No, they'll marry old farangs.

F1 fan, no disrespect intended, but I must ask but why do you stay in Thailand if you have these unresolvable issues regarding farang / thai relationships? Every post you make seems to be venting some anger towards Thai women. It's not healthy.

Isn't it obvious?? I love living in Thailand - it's so beautiful, laid back and the attitude of smiling (even if you don't mean it) is far more pleasant than the morosity of life in the West! The repulsiveness of the vast majority of fararng/thai relationships is a small price to pay.

So, back on topic, how do you find that luk krungs are treated at school here in Thailand?

Or are you too busy being repulsed by Thai / farang relationships to understand that some people actually marry and have families with children that go to school here in the LOS?

[Groongthep]

.......if you don't come from a great named family in the US, it is much much more likely you won't go to Yale or Harvard either.

Yes, it's true there is some of this at the top US Universities, (George W. Bush is a good example) but to say that those with prestigious "old money" names are "much much more likely" to get into the top schools is an exaggeration. These universities produce the best graduates because, for the most part, they only accept the best applicants regardless of background. Barack Obama went to Columbia then Harvard Law School and Bill Clinton went to Georgetown and Yale Law School. Both came from very humble backgrounds as do many other Ivy League and Tier 1 university graduates.

[Geekfreaklover]

.......if you don't come from a great named family in the US, it is much much more likely you won't go to Yale or Harvard either.

Yes, it's true there is some of this at the top US Universities, (George W. Bush is a good example) but to say that those with prestigious "old money" names are "much much more likely" to get into the top schools is an exaggeration. These universities produce the best graduates because, for the most part, they only accept the best applicants regardless of background. Barack Obama went to Columbia then Harvard Law School and Bill Clinton went to Georgetown and Yale Law School. Both came from very humble backgrounds as do many other Ivy League and Tier 1 university graduates.

Situation in England is that it's much more difficult to get into Cambridge or Oxford for an Eatonian than it is for a student from a poor innercity comprehensive school with the same or similar grades. If the child is of mixed race, from a poor background, but exceptionely bright than they will probably find it easier to get into a good university and go on to find good employment. They have, in the eyes of the university, achieved their grades against 'the odds.' ...

[johnefallis]

In a word Yes, however it is also true for the General pubic of mix race also. Just take a hard sense of awareness and you will see for yourself.

Who's "General pubic" ???

Maybe BigSnake's "Hairstyle" ?

!

[jubby]

In a word Yes, however it is also true for the General pubic of mix race also. Just take a hard sense of awareness and you will see for yourself.

Who's "General pubic" ???

Maybe BigSnake's "Hairstyle" ?

!

Thanks for that. Refreshing......... Definately a Bit of Bitterness rearing its ugly head here though. I would like to point out that a lot of us are set in our ways so not much point argueing ..........

[thaibkk]

my personal opinion and experience...

white thais (chinese origine) look down on black / dark skin thais, mostly poor people

so ur mixed fair skin child will be accepted as thai media and advertisement is full of white skinned full or half children / woman / men

[Groongthep]

I think there are very few luk kruengs in Thailand of an age where they may be considered for a position such as CEO. Sure there were a few left over from Vietnam but Dad went home and mum bought the bar. Those kids went nowhere although a few became pop stars. The massive explosion of educated Thai woman marrying farang men over the last decade or so, would I guess, lead to a lot of well-educated luk kruengs with parents of a respectful rank within Thai society. I believe strongly that these kids, the luk krueng baby boomers, will be the future of Thailand. Afterall it only took Chinese-Thais a few generations to take over all business and much of the administration of this country and it won't be long before Luk Kruengs are in this position as well.

Meechai Viravaidya and Jon and Ji Ungpakorn are middle aged luk krueng who seem to have done rather well. Of course it was their fathers who were Thai and mothers farang.

[citizen33]

Situation in England is that it's much more difficult to get into Cambridge or Oxford for an Eatonian than it is for a student from a poor innercity comprehensive school with the same or similar grades. If the child is of mixed race, from a poor background, but exceptionely bright than they will probably find it easier to get into a good university and go on to find good employment. They have, in the eyes of the university, achieved their grades against 'the odds.' ...

The statistics are against you on this one. Etonians still do rather well, and indeed the two Universities were recently criticised by the UK government on their failure to make faster progress in opening their doors to more students from humble backgrounds. At the same time, there have always been a significant proportion of poor but bright students who did well. I write as somebody who spent several years in an Oxford College.

Edited February 1, 2009 by citizen33

[laceyjane]

I teach at an afterschool college prep school where the students are all Koreans attending international schools. When I asked my students about differences between S. Korea and Thailand, one of the responses I got was actually that kids of mixed race are treated much better here. She (a high-schooler who has lived more of her life in Korea than Thailand) said that "mixed" kids are treated very badly in Korea, and looked down upon, but that here none of the students seemed to care at all. She said it was "better" here

[macduff]

Just to add on from my earlier post. I would prefare my child to be brought up in thailand than in England.even though many Thai visa members would probably disagree with me. I think in general Englands being flushed down the toilet, and as for Thailand i could say hand on heart i would rather work in a rice field with a hat on for next to nothing than put up with all this western greed that's got us in this mess in the first place, enough is enough.

[dave9988]

Just to add on from my earlier post. I would prefare my child to be brought up in thailand than in England.even though many Thai visa members would probably disagree with me. I think in general Englands being flushed down the toilet, and as for Thailand i could say hand on heart i would rather work in a rice field with a hat on for next to nothing than put up with all this western greed that's got us in this mess in the first place, enough is enough.

yeah you are blind if you think the greed here or materialism here is not equal to that in the England. its just that so many people lack the means that it might seem that way to you.

[macduff]

Just to add on from my earlier post. I would prefare my child to be brought up in thailand than in England.even though many Thai visa members would probably disagree with me. I think in general Englands being flushed down the toilet, and as for Thailand i could say hand on heart i would rather work in a rice field with a hat on for next to nothing than put up with all this western greed that's got us in this mess in the first place, enough is enough.

yeah you are blind if you think the greed here or materialism here is not equal to that in the England. its just that so many people lack the means that it might seem that way to you.

If you have chance to visit north thailand you will see many familys that would rather have a new pickup than renovate there run down houses . The materialism is here in thai it's just that they divert there funds differently and work a hel_l of a lot harder for it. The greed i was refering to in England is from the bankers.And we all know. there a load of bankers.

[Gats]

My Thai partner is 4months pregnant and i am white.

All I can say is that the volume of questions and enthusiasm from her friends and even just very distant aquaintances tells me there will be no problem whatsoever. I suspect the only real issue will be an assumption that the child is more privelaged than they are (as others have said).

Beyond that, we have had nothing but jealous and cheeky enthusiasm with constant comments about how attractive the child will be. We've even had some offers to adopt and there is a waiting list to babysit 5 months before it is due.

you should be fine

[McGinty]

In general I don't think that mixed race kids are more attractive than full Thai kids. If you compare the two:

White skin (with moles/freckles) v golden skin (unblemished)

Mousy hair (fine/dull) v black (thick/ shiny)

Big nose v cute little button nose

To me, Thai kids are far more beautiful.

[Geekfreaklover]

Just to add on from my earlier post. I would prefare my child to be brought up in thailand than in England.even though many Thai visa members would probably disagree with me. I think in general Englands being flushed down the toilet, and as for Thailand i could say hand on heart i would rather work in a rice field with a hat on for next to nothing than put up with all this western greed that's got us in this mess in the first place, enough is enough.

I think if you had children in the Thai school system, or understood the level of education most Thais reach in Thailand you might think differently.

It's of no surprise to me why any Thai family with the means or the money would rather have their child educated in the West.

[Lite Beer]

Post insulting Thais deleted.

[Geekfreaklover]

In general I don't think that mixed race kids are more attractive than full Thai kids. If you compare the two:

White skin (with moles/freckles) v golden skin (unblemished)

Mousy hair (fine/dull) v black (thick/ shiny)

Big nose v cute little button nose

To me, Thai kids are far more beautiful.

That's nice, but the majority of Thai and international model agencies, Television casting directors, producers, magazine editors, Scriptwriters, Advertising proffesionials, High society socialites -not to mention the general public (influenced by the aforementioned) would tend to disagree.

Fo better or worse, these are the people that call the shots on whats hot and whats not!

[citizen33]

Just to add on from my earlier post. I would prefare my child to be brought up in thailand than in England.even though many Thai visa members would probably disagree with me. I think in general Englands being flushed down the toilet, and as for Thailand i could say hand on heart i would rather work in a rice field with a hat on for next to nothing than put up with all this western greed that's got us in this mess in the first place, enough is enough.

I think if you had children in the Thai school system, or understood the level of education most Thais reach in Thailand you might think differently.

It's of no surprise to me why any Thai family with the means or the money would rather have their child educated in the West.

Sadly I think the second poster has a point. A Thai friend who is in a higher middle-level University post recently confided that he felt he had made the wrong decision in buying a house in a provincial city rather than the regional centre. The reason he gave is that there are not enough private tutors in the full range of subjects in the provincial city. He explained that, as children near the end of high school, there is virtually no prospect of a university place without extra rote learning. This is one of the factors that is making me think that my child is better off in the UK education system. Of course, then there is the issue of the quality of graduates in the two systems!

[andyman52]

We've got a couple of kids at school here (my children are luk krungs) and for the most part there is no problem with regards to racism.I think in general they are looked up to, as if they have some kind of secret knowledge or something. which they don't.

It did make me smile the other day when my son came home and asked me what 'farang kee nok' is as that is what a school friend had said to him at school. Made me smile as there was a thread on Thai visa about that saying and most farangs were defending the saying, claiming it was not racist - just a cultural saying or whatever.

Well, saying it's not racist doesn't get away from the fact that it is racist. But racism works best for the racist when the abused reacts. Best thing is to not react. Having a half blood child being called 'Farang Kee nok' is like if you are a Pakistani parent with children at school in England and your kid gets called a 'smelly Paki' by the white kids. It's racist, pure and simple. When the Asian kids at my old school in London got called names they didn't react. They kept their head down and worked hard. Now most of the Asian kids I was at school with are doctors or dentists and the white bullies are probably plumbers planining a holiday to Pattaya. Go figure.

So many people on TV defend Thai racists, which, paradoxcally shows both cultural strength/tolerance and self weekness/lack of principles at the same time.

I haven't really seen too much racism in the schools here. If it happens from classmates at school I would tell my kids to ignore it. If the teachers discriminated against my half-caste kids I would move them into a new school.

But anyway, we are looking to move my boys to a school in the UK soon anyway. And if they get racial abuse there I will simply sue the school/government and make a few grand (pud-len - only joking)

GFL

Whats with the comment about plumbers ? I am not a racist and didnt bully anyone at school..am i deemed to be of a lower class than your doctor friends because of my job... whats your job ? I suppose you havent been to Pattaya , would be beneath you.

[bkkmick]

Right back on subject now...I must say that I have never experienced any racism towards either of my two wee girls. They both go to school in Bangkok (5yo and 7yo) and have great school friends. At school they are supposed to speak only English, but I hear them speak only Thai with their friends. Also, with reference to a different thread, I have't seen any change with local (Bangkok) people's attitude towards us (kids, Mrs and me) when out and about in Bkk. It might happen, depending on location/weather/people/news, but thankfully I haven't experienced it. With a cute kid like in your avatar I wouldn't worry about what anyone says or looks.

[Heng]

I don't think that one particular industry (especially considering the relative niche status of the "entertainment" industry: low numbers of positions available, and extremely limited shelf life of said industry) being "open" to luk krungs is indicative of acceptance, integration, or chances of success within a society. Just because blacks are highly representative in the NFL, NBA, and the music industry in the US doesn't mean that most people would be happy to have them at their dinner table or even serving their food.

That may change over time, but for generation one luk krungs, one sticking point is that all too often, if a luk krung is to marry into a good family, one of the first issues that's going to come up is what her parents background is. Politically correct or not, when the future "grandma" is often a former working girl, that often splashes the whole deal and the most that luk krung gal (or guy) can hope for is to be a mia noi/non official partner or to marry down.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Heng

[Westerner]

I don't think that one particular industry (especially considering the relative niche status of the "entertainment" industry: low numbers of positions available, and extremely limited shelf life of said industry) being "open" to luk krungs is indicative of acceptance, integration, or chances of success within a society. Just because blacks are highly representative in the NFL, NBA, and the music industry in the US doesn't mean that most people would be happy to have them at their dinner table or even serving their food.

That may change over time, but for generation one luk krungs, one sticking point is that all too often, if a luk krung is to marry into a good family, one of the first issues that's going to come up is what her parents background is. Politically correct or not, when the future "grandma" is often a former working girl, that often splashes the whole deal and the most that luk krung gal (or guy) can hope for is to be a mia noi/non official partner or to marry down.

Heng, you are absolutely spot on with this post.

[David James]

Just because blacks are highly representative in the NFL, NBA, and the music industry in the US doesn't mean that most people would be happy to have them at their dinner table or even serving their food.

Most Americans don't think like you. When you take your head out of that place where the sun doesn't shine you'll see a man of color has become the world's most powerful man - President of America.

[phomsanuk]

Have a look at Thai TV, gossip magazines etc.

Certainly an advantage to be "half-blood" if that means your skin is whiter, you are taller and your nose more pointy.

We have two luk krung kids (both below 5 years) at school here and they fit in at school with no problems whatsoever.

I think it is a social advantage to be half thai / half caucasian in Thailand.

Many of the models in advertisements etc are luk krung, they have a good life ahead

[Westerner]

Have a look at Thai TV, gossip magazines etc.

Certainly an advantage to be "half-blood" if that means your skin is whiter, you are taller and your nose more pointy.

We have two luk krung kids (both below 5 years) at school here and they fit in at school with no problems whatsoever.

I think it is a social advantage to be half thai / half caucasian in Thailand.

Many of the models in advertisements etc are luk krung, they have a good life ahead

But they have to have model quality, not all luk kruengs have it. What happens to the rest of them? I suspect they are treated as farangs and are discriminated against.

[Geekfreaklover]

Have a look at Thai TV, gossip magazines etc.

Certainly an advantage to be "half-blood" if that means your skin is whiter, you are taller and your nose more pointy.

We have two luk krung kids (both below 5 years) at school here and they fit in at school with no problems whatsoever.

I think it is a social advantage to be half thai / half caucasian in Thailand.

Many of the models in advertisements etc are luk krung, they have a good life ahead

But they have to have model quality, not all luk kruengs have it. What happens to the rest of them? I suspect they are treated as farangs and are discriminated against.

Depends what you mean by "The rest of them" ??

... The way I see it is that if you were born in Thailand or Farangland with one parent Farang, one Thai. Both parents from respectable backgounds. Have social skills. Have Thai passport. Grow up speaking Thai , but can also speak a foreign language / English to an advanced level. Have good qualifications. Why would you be discriminated against?

[Heng]

Just because blacks are highly representative in the NFL, NBA, and the music industry in the US doesn't mean that most people would be happy to have them at their dinner table or even serving their food.

Most Americans don't think like you. When you take your head out of that place where the sun doesn't shine you'll see a man of color has become the world's most powerful man - President of America.

*Yawn* Frustrated or angry much? This is a discussion.

Yeah, I know, I was actually thinking about voting for him before I had another margarita. Luk krungs on TV, B.O. as prez, or a troup of Mexican Elvis impersonators at Caesar's... these aren't exact indicators or "proof" of whether there are or there aren't widespread social/racial issues in mainstream society. It's much more telling to look at avg. job placement, income levels, % of those incarcarated vs. attending univeristy, etc. across the ENTIRE population.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Heng