He11's Minions/wardens

[SeerObserver]

I raised this issue somewhere in another thread I started called, "Universality of hel_l." Hopefully by making a separate thread, more people will notice it and I can get more feedback.

When someone is reborn into a hel_l realm, they are punished for their misdeeds in past lives. The punishment received correlates to the previous misdeeds. But who is it that is handing down this retribution?

If there are minions in hel_l that execute the acts of punishment, it would seem they are committing demerit themselves in that they are causing the suffering of other beings. How would one be born into such a baneful existence, and how/what would one get out of it? It would seem that as a minion of hel_l, one was born into an existence dedicated to the infliction of pain and suffering. How could one hope to be reborn into a more favorable existence if that is the case?

I really do not foresee the very next existence for one of hel_l's minions being that of a favorable nature. Maybe once that particular existence ceases, they themselves are reborn as a being in hel_l to receive punishment, cleanse some of that karma, and finally be reborn into a relatively more favorable existence.

It's been stated that maybe these beings were of the temperament to be misguided and follow dangerous masters, creating the karma to be reborn as such. That is feasible, but what other causes are there for this existence? With or without that, what a "wasted" existence, so to speak, it would seem to be born into this. Existing merely to create more bad karma and keep you away from nirvana marginally longer? What a punishment. What kind of livelihood was led to cause this rebirth?

[Brucenkhamen]

I raised this issue somewhere in another thread I started called, "Universality of hel_l." Hopefully by making a separate thread, more people will notice it and I can get more feedback.

When someone is reborn into a hel_l realm, they are punished for their misdeeds in past lives. The punishment received correlates to the previous misdeeds. But who is it that is handing down this retribution?

If there are minions in hel_l that execute the acts of punishment, it would seem they are committing demerit themselves in that they are causing the suffering of other beings. How would one be born into such a baneful existence, and how/what would one get out of it? It would seem that as a minion of hel_l, one was born into an existence dedicated to the infliction of pain and suffering. How could one hope to be reborn into a more favorable existence if that is the case?

I really do not foresee the very next existence for one of hel_l's minions being that of a favorable nature. Maybe once that particular existence ceases, they themselves are reborn as a being in hel_l to receive punishment, cleanse some of that karma, and finally be reborn into a relatively more favorable existence.

It's been stated that maybe these beings were of the temperament to be misguided and follow dangerous masters, creating the karma to be reborn as such. That is feasible, but what other causes are there for this existence? With or without that, what a "wasted" existence, so to speak, it would seem to be born into this. Existing merely to create more bad karma and keep you away from nirvana marginally longer? What a punishment. What kind of livelihood was led to cause this rebirth?

I'm not sure where you've got this idea about minions from, I don't think even a very orthadox interpretation of the Buddhist scriptures would arrive at that idea. You make it sound like a boot camp where the paid staff are professional tormenters, perhaps a reality TV show, "The Biggest Sinner" or "Americas next top Masochist".

As I understand it from the Buddhist perspective you create your own hel_l with your own state of mind, so I guess if you get a lot of people together who are creating their own hells with their own states of mind then they are likely to end up tormenting each other, that doesn't mean anybody gets offered a job on the paid staff.

[SeerObserver]

I'm not sure where you've got this idea about minions from, I don't think even a very orthadox interpretation of the Buddhist scriptures would arrive at that idea. You make it sound like a boot camp where the paid staff are professional tormenters, perhaps a reality TV show, "The Biggest Sinner" or "Americas next top Masochist".

As I understand it from the Buddhist perspective you create your own hel_l with your own state of mind, so I guess if you get a lot of people together who are creating their own hells with their own states of mind then they are likely to end up tormenting each other, that doesn't mean anybody gets offered a job on the paid staff.

Hilarious. The view of hel_l I offered may be sensationalized, but as a core principle, one's experiences in hel_l are of their own making in that it was their misdeeds that led to them being born into such an unfavorable existence. We seem to be on point in that regard.

So how then is one punished from the Buddhist perspective exactly? When an unmeritorious being is born into an unfavorable existence, what will they then undergo? Is it their mind that conjures up the retributions that they receive? In your example, the beings are creating their own hells with their states of mind and end up torturing each other. As they are inflicting suffering and therefore building bad Karma, the next existence could not be favorable either. This is more seemingly endless and cyclic than in my sensationalized example. One would never get out, because beings will continue to receive as well as dish out punishment. This only seems to lead to more hel_l and more giving/receiving punishment.

Edited February 7, 2009 by SeerObserver

[Brucenkhamen]

So how then is one punished from the Buddhist perspective exactly? When an unmeritorious being is born into an unfavorable existence, what will they then undergo? Is it their mind that conjures up the retributions that they receive? In your example, the beings are creating their own hells with their states of mind and end up torturing each other. As they are inflicting suffering and therefore building bad Karma, the next existence could not be favorable either. This is more seemingly endless and cyclic than in my sensationalized example. One would never get out, because beings will continue to receive as well as dish out punishment. This only seems to lead to more hel_l and more giving/receiving punishment.

I'm not sure there can be punishment unless there is a punisher, in Buddhism there is no headmistress handing out punishment with the cane. What we are talking about is just the result of past actions, it's cause and affect, do good things and you get good results, do bad things and you get bad results, simple as that.