What Business Could I Do To Stay In Issan.?

[dmax]

i love it up north,i do get bored at times and i need something to keep me busy..i want to build a small ome on my wifes land...a also have money left to put into some type of business whether it is buying a harvester and renting it out,buying loads of pigs etc,buying more rice land,building a shop in town to sell hardware wholesale rice,beer ,food and a small petrol pump...i just havent got a clue so i need help...my wife seems to think i can buy a type of harvester for rice or wotever and drive it myself and people pay me to harvest their land,,she seems to think it would earn us a little bit of money just to keep me up there....as i say i know nothing at all about farming life but i do really want to live in issan and need some type of income while im there...i dont want to go down the road of buying a bar in pattaya.......please help....much appreciated ,,,thanks

[Totster]

Buy a harverster ?? Drive it yourself ??

Buying the harvester itself is not the problem. What is the problem is driving it yourself.

Not taking into account the lack of WP (I'm assuming), the harvester can only make money twice a year in a relatively small window.. so in order for it to make some money or at least be efficient it needs to be run pretty much around the clock during that time.. I'm sure you don't need that. If you were to go down this route, then employ some local help to work it would be my suggestion

Totster

[coventry]

I read yesterday that the price of rice is going to crash in Thailand for 2009. If that helps ? I'm not a business man, and I've no wish to be, but rice fed rats are in short supply. Vietnam and Cambodia being big importers of them. In Cambodia the price of rat has risen 4 fold in the last 12 months to about 88 Baht a Kilo. Better price than pork.

Edited February 12, 2009 by coventry

[Chaimai]

I read yesterday that the price of rice is going to crash in Thailand for 2009. If that helps ? I'm not a business man, and I've no wish to be, but rice fed rats are in short supply. Vietnam and Cambodia being big importers of them.

Can you provide a link for that rice crash story.

[ronthompson]

i looked into buying a harvester, had a brother in law to drive it but decided against it because

Could I really trust the driver not to wreck it, i was not 100% positive.

Difficult if not to impossible to collect when you harvest, small farmers do not always have cash in hand and by asking relatives when they pay for the reaper the answer most of the time was after they sell their rice, usually within two months???

You need excellent command of Thai and Farming to know how many Rai you are harvesting??

I have a sister in law who opened a small village shop selling beer, soda,necessary home supplies etc the profit margin is so small i do not believe they will stay in business much longer; her husband purchased a small rice milling machine has a small machine shop and does metal fabrication on order, they are trying very hard and not making a profit "yet"?

I too would like a small business to help keep me active and I come up with no good ideas.

I want to believe buying and selling rice could be good but with the economy the way it is I chickened out.

Best of lick to you Thailand is a great place to live if you are retired

[sorensen]

You can make a small fortune fast...................you just need to start with a big fortune and open a bar.

[coventry]

I read yesterday that the price of rice is going to crash in Thailand for 2009. If that helps ? I'm not a business man, and I've no wish to be, but rice fed rats are in short supply. Vietnam and Cambodia being big importers of them.

Can you provide a link for that rice crash story.

Sorry I can't but I think it may have been on Thai Visa farming forum. I was looking into both Tapioca and rice prices. As I remember the story said something to the effect that the Thai government had been paying too higher price for last years harvest due to other countries restricting export ie Vietnam and India. If I can find it again I'll get back to you.

[mackayae]

Can you drive a samlor?

[mackayae]

Also, loan sharking is a good business in Isan.

[Dave the Dude]

i love it up north,i do get bored at times and i need something to keep me busy..i want to build a small ome on my wifes land...a also have money left to put into some type of business whether it is buying a harvester and renting it out,buying loads of pigs etc,buying more rice land,building a shop in town to sell hardware wholesale rice,beer ,food and a small petrol pump...i just havent got a clue so i need help...my wife seems to think i can buy a type of harvester for rice or wotever and drive it myself and people pay me to harvest their land,,she seems to think it would earn us a little bit of money just to keep me up there....as i say i know nothing at all about farming life but i do really want to live in issan and need some type of income while im there...i dont want to go down the road of buying a bar in pattaya.......please help....much appreciated ,,,thanks

Hi Dmax

Firstly, are you aware that its difficult to legally work here(jobs for the Thai's & all that)?

With that in mind, I would suggest you gear your thinking to work that your wife can do (with you helping out).

Rice farming is very, very common in these parts and I know of a few ferangs who have bought up land to ricefarm(in thier wives names). They seem to be doing OK.

Others like us who live in a small village, have a little 'minimart' or hairdressing salon. Profits are miniscule but so is the cost of living.

Good luck and remember if you don't expect to make money, you will never fail.

Dave

[Isee]

I read yesterday that the price of rice is going to crash in Thailand for 2009. If that helps ? I'm not a business man, and I've no wish to be, but rice fed rats are in short supply. Vietnam and Cambodia being big importers of them.

Can you provide a link for that rice crash story.

Was it this one??

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-s-R...amp;pid=2511836

Its a bit dubious, the story is over 6 months old and newer news stories are probably a bit more reliable. This is the proper link that the above post tried to refer to.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/22...ry-in-2009.html

Here is a recent story along similar lines - but not so much doom and gloom:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/econom...-to-miss-target

There are quite a few stories going on at the moment.....Vietnam just did a big deal to sell to the Philliphines at good prices, another story saying Thailand wants to enter into a Joint Venture with Vietnam, another story saying the Thai Govt wants to reduce its stockpiles quicky as its holding twice the amount that was previously disclosed etc etc...

[Isee]

Hi dmax,

If I was to provide an opinion, I would suggest that you clarify with yourself exactly what you are trying to achieve. It appears to some degree that you are just looking to have something to do daily ( which is a necessity in rural areas), but how much time per day are you thinking?? Is there a need to create an income for future reliance, or could your current money cover you for your time in Thailand?? Are your funds in baht already or do you have to transfer them over - what exchange rate are you getting now, would it be better to wait for a better rate?? What type of money are you looking to invest and the next question being, could you afford to lose that much money and walk away with nothing? In saying all that, there is nothing wrong with "having a go", but a little planning is always better.

If its a daily thing you are looking for and just looking at doing one thing, forget about a harvester as you only have a window each year of work and as others have said, you won't be doing the actual work yourself as I'm sure you will eventually get yourself dobbed in by anyone who has a grudge if you do. I was talking to a decent guy in Pattaya last year who runs a motorbike hire shop with his wife. He was hiding out inside the office as he had already been warned about "working". That working consisted of talking to other farangs who came in the yard...to washing or refueling the bikes (cut throat business in Pattaya). This was even though the wife would actually sign customers up to any rental agreements, open the office and close it herself etc. Without a WP, you need to keep a low profile in any operation you are trying to earn an income from.

You say you want to build a house on your wife's land - I would think that would keep you busy enough on its own if you are keeping a daily eye on progress. How much land are you building on? Would you have room to dig a pond and grow some fish for a hobby?? Don't try to stock it at high levels and you shouldn't have too many problems. If you don't have any other people in the area growing fish, you'd probably find that what you consume and others coming around to buy will be enough. Maybe you might then try another pond if you have room. And to make the specific point again....do you want to "work" or do you want to occupy "some time"?

In relation to a small store, you need to think about that some more. My GF suggested doing the same and I ruled it out for 3 reasons. Firstly, the margins are very small as others have said; secondly it requires you to stay there all day; thirdly in the GF moo baan they have 2 of these "stores" already - why would you want to open a third???.

About pig farming...why? I read into this "buying loads of pigs" to suggest a commercial scale, do you have experience with pigs? Steep learning curve I would of thought to setup a commercial piggery. Keeping a couple of pigs (or cows for that matter) for the purpose of raising them for sale or own use is a much more manageable learning curve where mistakes are not compounded (or created) 100 times or whatever number of pigs you keep.

You really do need to have a good look around and see what others are doing, or what problems they are having, or what they aren't doing but need to buy. You may think that I haven't answered your question, but I would suggest I have. What works in another area may not work where you are. There are more learned people on this forum that could advise you to try this or to try that in the KK area - but its all going to come down to the initial question I put back to you....what are you trying to achieve. Having a hobby is easy enough, having a business is work, having a successful business is hard work.

Finally, have a look in the farming forum, you might get some other ideas in there as well as discussion on most of the areas you raised in your initial question.

Hope the above assists you, cheers

[manjara]

Also, loan sharking is a good business in Isan.

Typical rates would be at least 1% per month, usually much more. It would probably be a bit hard on the health though!

[patklang]

Hi dmax,

If I was to provide an opinion, I would suggest that you clarify with yourself exactly what you are trying to achieve. It appears to some degree that you are just looking to have something to do daily ( which is a necessity in rural areas), but how much time per day are you thinking?? Is there a need to create an income for future reliance, or could your current money cover you for your time in Thailand?? Are your funds in baht already or do you have to transfer them over - what exchange rate are you getting now, would it be better to wait for a better rate?? What type of money are you looking to invest and the next question being, could you afford to lose that much money and walk away with nothing? In saying all that, there is nothing wrong with "having a go", but a little planning is always better.

If its a daily thing you are looking for and just looking at doing one thing, forget about a harvester as you only have a window each year of work and as others have said, you won't be doing the actual work yourself as I'm sure you will eventually get yourself dobbed in by anyone who has a grudge if you do. I was talking to a decent guy in Pattaya last year who runs a motorbike hire shop with his wife. He was hiding out inside the office as he had already been warned about "working". That working consisted of talking to other farangs who came in the yard...to washing or refueling the bikes (cut throat business in Pattaya). This was even though the wife would actually sign customers up to any rental agreements, open the office and close it herself etc. Without a WP, you need to keep a low profile in any operation you are trying to earn an income from.

You say you want to build a house on your wife's land - I would think that would keep you busy enough on its own if you are keeping a daily eye on progress. How much land are you building on? Would you have room to dig a pond and grow some fish for a hobby?? Don't try to stock it at high levels and you shouldn't have too many problems. If you don't have any other people in the area growing fish, you'd probably find that what you consume and others coming around to buy will be enough. Maybe you might then try another pond if you have room. And to make the specific point again....do you want to "work" or do you want to occupy "some time"?

In relation to a small store, you need to think about that some more. My GF suggested doing the same and I ruled it out for 3 reasons. Firstly, the margins are very small as others have said; secondly it requires you to stay there all day; thirdly in the GF moo baan they have 2 of these "stores" already - why would you want to open a third???.

About pig farming...why? I read into this "buying loads of pigs" to suggest a commercial scale, do you have experience with pigs? Steep learning curve I would of thought to setup a commercial piggery. Keeping a couple of pigs (or cows for that matter) for the purpose of raising them for sale or own use is a much more manageable learning curve where mistakes are not compounded (or created) 100 times or whatever number of pigs you keep.

You really do need to have a good look around and see what others are doing, or what problems they are having, or what they aren't doing but need to buy. You may think that I haven't answered your question, but I would suggest I have. What works in another area may not work where you are. There are more learned people on this forum that could advise you to try this or to try that in the KK area - but its all going to come down to the initial question I put back to you....what are you trying to achieve. Having a hobby is easy enough, having a business is work, having a successful business is hard work.

Finally, have a look in the farming forum, you might get some other ideas in there as well as discussion on most of the areas you raised in your initial question.

Hope the above assists you, cheers

Good comments and great advise.Anybody that wants to live in Thailand and set up a business is going to find it tough,as you have to rely on thais to do the work,first problem,even if its your wife.

Anybody that can find a good profitable business without working hard let me know as i have funds.

a 10% net profit is what i want,but regular.

[manjara]

I have thought about this a bit, but for different reasons. I live in BKK and work abroad a lot of the time as the wages in Thailand for what I do are pretty cr@p.

My wifes relatives in the North are subsistence farmers and never make much money from the land they farm.

One family getting more than 100k baht in a year would be considered fantastic.

I have found myself subsidising the growing of rice and other crops, by buying seed and paying the charges for workers to plant/harvest, to the extent that it seems almost pointless to grow anything on our land.

I have therefore been thinking about what the family could do to increase their incomes and vary the standard rice, beans, corn cycle that they do right now.

My main observation is that there is virtually no processing of the crops done in the region. E.g. no-one has a canning plant or packages the vegetables in any way. There are a hundred things that can be done without too much investment that would increase the value of the produce being sold. I have had a few ideas but none of the family have been particularly enthusiastic to try them out.

Some examples:

- Buffalo milking -> Mozzarella cheese

- Cured pork (make quality hams with chilli and other thai spices)

- Cereal production (Cornflakes and Rice Crispies)

there are hundreds of possibilities, where the only real obstacle is the marketing process (branding and selling)

[Bpraim1]

I have 1 rai of land That I have been growing hydroponic veggies on and some other veggies in soil, also selling fertilizers on the side.

You could look at just doing something for a hobby, then expand later, as Issan can be a life and love breaker for the faint of heart and mind.

[patklang]

What about keeping ducks,goats,or even cricket farm.?????

goat meat could be a good seller in some of the walking st areas

[Chaimai]

Good luck and remember if you don't expect to make money, you will never fail.

Spoken like a true ex-banker

Perfectly true. I doubt that there is any business a Farang can get involved in, in Isaan, that will make a fortune. We must be talking about life-style businesses that provide you with a reason to get out of bed and give you a chance to exercise/exercise the grey matter.

Break-even should be the target, or even loss if you are prepared to support the business with funds from your 'home' country. Make your plan then halve your revenue forecast, double your costs and make sure that the resultant figure can be supported.

[pnustedt]

i looked into buying a harvester, had a brother in law to drive it but decided against it because

Could I really trust the driver not to wreck it, i was not 100% positive.

Difficult if not to impossible to collect when you harvest, small farmers do not always have cash in hand and by asking relatives when they pay for the reaper the answer most of the time was after they sell their rice, usually within two months???

You need excellent command of Thai and Farming to know how many Rai you are harvesting??

I bought a couple of harvesters and acilliary equipment and make enough to keep my and my wife's families. I drive the m/c's when necessary, have no problems collecting money, the machines are well looked after, I don't speak Thai and had no previous farming experience.

Personally, I would not want to be hanging around some shop or bar for hours on end waiting for someone to spend a few baht.

[coventry]

I read yesterday that the price of rice is going to crash in Thailand for 2009. If that helps ? I'm not a business man, and I've no wish to be, but rice fed rats are in short supply. Vietnam and Cambodia being big importers of them.

Can you provide a link for that rice crash story.

The exact link I cannot find. But try http://en.china.cn/content/d470889,6c782c,2853_13992.html . On that site they're forecasting a 15% volume fall in Thai rice export. Rice export value is expected to drop by 20% of 2008 price. Good luck to farang rice farmers as I hope they're wrong.

[Isee]

Also, loan sharking is a good business in Isan.

Typical rates would be at least 1% per month, usually much more. It would probably be a bit hard on the health though!

Hi manjara,

I took mackayae post as a bit tongue in cheek and not being really serious. I would discourage anyone thinking of lending money as "loan sharking" would be even more problematice for a farang than it is for a thai. Firstly, there is to my understanding a maximum percentage rate that can be charged (I forget what it is...6% p.a maybe) - so any rate above that is unenforceable at law. That therefore requires these people to ensure repayment by other means.... The local loan shark in my GF's village is generally talked about in a negative way, but also accepted as a necessary evil. I found out just recently with repayment of the bank loans due this month that the loan shark was charging 5% per DAY until the borrowers obtained their new loan from the bank (read: more debt) to pay the loan shark back. My GF suggested some time ago that I should do the same and offer a lower rate and everyone would be happy (except for the current loan shark that is). My reply was "no way on this earth" as I've got some first hand experience dealing with loan defaulters and its not a pleasant topic to deal with let alone dealing with a thai farmer that simply has no options in repaying. These people need to break the debt cycle, not have me handing out loans and having problems with repaying. I wouldn't have to stretch my imagination much for things quickly turning from being jai dee to jai dum - and then still try to live in the area.

Also on the point you made about value-added goods, I agree 100%. How do you break from subsistence farming to one of adding value to your raw product and thereby increasing your returns. I don't have the answer sorry, but the principle is a sound one when you find a market. The buffalo milk for mozzarella cheese is interesting, but I presumed it would then be exported?

[prakhonchai nick]

Also, loan sharking is a good business in Isan.

Typical rates would be at least 1% per month, usually much more. It would probably be a bit hard on the health though!

Typical rates were from 3% up a month. I say "were" because most moneylenders are no longer lending due to the impending recession. Some would be borrowers who have been used to paying 5% monthly are now so desperate for cash that they are offering to pay 10% a month, and still finding no lenders.

In response to Isee's earlier post, the maximum permitted loan rate is 28% a year, which equates to approx 2.4% a month. Most (but not all) village people have no idea of this legal maximum, and when in default, have neither the will nor the money necessary to contest it. They will just forfeit their land or any other guarantee given.

Edited February 13, 2009 by prakhonchai nick

[dmax]

Hi dmax,

If I was to provide an opinion, I would suggest that you clarify with yourself exactly what you are trying to achieve. It appears to some degree that you are just looking to have something to do daily ( which is a necessity in rural areas), but how much time per day are you thinking?? Is there a need to create an income for future reliance, or could your current money cover you for your time in Thailand?? Are your funds in baht already or do you have to transfer them over - what exchange rate are you getting now, would it be better to wait for a better rate?? What type of money are you looking to invest and the next question being, could you afford to lose that much money and walk away with nothing? In saying all that, there is nothing wrong with "having a go", but a little planning is always better.

If its a daily thing you are looking for and just looking at doing one thing, forget about a harvester as you only have a window each year of work and as others have said, you won't be doing the actual work yourself as I'm sure you will eventually get yourself dobbed in by anyone who has a grudge if you do. I was talking to a decent guy in Pattaya last year who runs a motorbike hire shop with his wife. He was hiding out inside the office as he had already been warned about "working". That working consisted of talking to other farangs who came in the yard...to washing or refueling the bikes (cut throat business in Pattaya). This was even though the wife would actually sign customers up to any rental agreements, open the office and close it herself etc. Without a WP, you need to keep a low profile in any operation you are trying to earn an income from.

You say you want to build a house on your wife's land - I would think that would keep you busy enough on its own if you are keeping a daily eye on progress. How much land are you building on? Would you have room to dig a pond and grow some fish for a hobby?? Don't try to stock it at high levels and you shouldn't have too many problems. If you don't have any other people in the area growing fish, you'd probably find that what you consume and others coming around to buy will be enough. Maybe you might then try another pond if you have room. And to make the specific point again....do you want to "work" or do you want to occupy "some time"?

In relation to a small store, you need to think about that some more. My GF suggested doing the same and I ruled it out for 3 reasons. Firstly, the margins are very small as others have said; secondly it requires you to stay there all day; thirdly in the GF moo baan they have 2 of these "stores" already - why would you want to open a third???.

About pig farming...why? I read into this "buying loads of pigs" to suggest a commercial scale, do you have experience with pigs? Steep learning curve I would of thought to setup a commercial piggery. Keeping a couple of pigs (or cows for that matter) for the purpose of raising them for sale or own use is a much more manageable learning curve where mistakes are not compounded (or created) 100 times or whatever number of pigs you keep.

You really do need to have a good look around and see what others are doing, or what problems they are having, or what they aren't doing but need to buy. You may think that I haven't answered your question, but I would suggest I have. What works in another area may not work where you are. There are more learned people on this forum that could advise you to try this or to try that in the KK area - but its all going to come down to the initial question I put back to you....what are you trying to achieve. Having a hobby is easy enough, having a business is work, having a successful business is hard work.

Finally, have a look in the farming forum, you might get some other ideas in there as well as discussion on most of the areas you raised in your initial question.

Hope the above assists you, cheers

hi isee,

thanks a lot for your time in posting back to me, ur info was very helpfull and i will take it on board,,,,im just sick of pattaya and the bar scene and really want to live up country but it seems by all peoples replies on here it is not easy...i am only 41 so i quess i will have to wait for my retirement...

thanks

damx

[Isee]

Also, loan sharking is a good business in Isan.

Typical rates would be at least 1% per month, usually much more. It would probably be a bit hard on the health though!

Typical rates were from 3% up a month. I say "were" because most moneylenders are no longer lending due to the impending recession. Some would be borrowers who have been used to paying 5% monthly are now so desperate for cash that they are offering to pay 10% a month, and still finding no lenders.

In response to Isee's earlier post, the maximum permitted loan rate is 28% a year, which equates to approx 2.4% a month. Most (but not all) village people have no idea of this legal maximum, and when in default, have neither the will nor the money necessary to contest it. They will just forfeit their land or any other guarantee given.

Hi prakhonchai nick

Thanks for your input but I was shocked to see the permitted loan rate of 28% - which appeared to me to be very high. I'm not sure if that is a max rate for credit cards or what? Anyway, decided to track down the rate and according to section 654 of the Civil and Commercial Code it states the maximum being 15% p.a and any contract above that would be reduced to 15%. The section is under the heading of "Loan for Consumption". Could you clarify the source of your quoted 28% rate?

Thanks

[dmax]

THANKS FOR ALL UR HELP GUYS,,SOME INTERESTING REPLIES THERE,I SHALL TAKE HEED,DIDNT KNOW IT WOULD BE SO DIFFICULT....MAYBE LOOK INTO BUYING BAR NOW IN PATTAYA LOL

[Isee]

hi isee,

thanks a lot for your time in posting back to me, ur info was very helpfull and i will take it on board,,,,im just sick of pattaya and the bar scene and really want to live up country but it seems by all peoples replies on here it is not easy...i am only 41 so i quess i will have to wait for my retirement...

thanks

damx

Hi dmax, I hope I haven't put you off by what I said - I personally find Yasothon these days much more interesting than I do Pattaya (I only go there now to meet friends who are in town) - village life is a totally different pace and as long as you can do without the farang convenience that Pattaya has. The only trick is (imho) is having something to do; being setup properly (ie your own transport etc); and having a reasonable extended family who don't consider you as their personal finance company (which is never paid back). Start off slowly and get the feel for the place and something will come to mind. Talk to a few guys who are out there now: pnustedt, mali1964, and fruity immediately come to mind, but there are a few others who post regularly in the farming section.

Cheers

[coventry]

THANKS FOR ALL UR HELP GUYS,,SOME INTERESTING REPLIES THERE,I SHALL TAKE HEED,DIDNT KNOW IT WOULD BE SO DIFFICULT....MAYBE LOOK INTO BUYING BAR NOW IN PATTAYA LOL

If it were that easy we'd all be running bars in Pattaya. I personally don't know one good luck story regarding running a bar, full stop. Good luck. When in doubt, always look for the easy option ? As per this OP.

Edited February 13, 2009 by coventry

[onni4me]

As I've been a part of 'business' in Thailand, I must say it's NEVER EASY. Don't even think about putting up anything unless you are sure about all the details. The most common mistake is to involve the family and pay extra since it feels so 'cheap'. Every baht counts if one is to survive in the business way.

I have some ideas for free:

1. Buy something and sell it in your home country - always an easy option since now the prices for logistics have dropped significantly

2. Esaan don't have too many internet shops like f.e. Chiang Mai so the return is quite good. 1-1.5 million would do the trick. 10K for rent, 15K for electricity, 15K for staff, income between 80-120K a Month (after expenses). Not great but one can survive.

3. Be a teacher...I know, there are plenty...but its income. No risks. Or get some other job where they need a native Briton (or wherever you were from).

Cheers! Bar I recommend only to those who can run them sober.

Edited February 13, 2009 by onni4me

[samesamebutdifferent]

THANKS FOR ALL UR HELP GUYS,,SOME INTERESTING REPLIES THERE,I SHALL TAKE HEED,DIDNT KNOW IT WOULD BE SO DIFFICULT....MAYBE LOOK INTO BUYING BAR NOW IN PATTAYA LOL

Sell sand to the Arabs. More chance of turning a profit. Check out other posts and the reactions to this suggestion. Never known anyone 'happily' running a bar. Even the farming equipment would make money twice a year.

[JanAndersLarsson]

THANKS FOR ALL UR HELP GUYS,,SOME INTERESTING REPLIES THERE,I SHALL TAKE HEED,DIDNT KNOW IT WOULD BE SO DIFFICULT....MAYBE LOOK INTO BUYING BAR NOW IN PATTAYA LOL

Sell sand to the Arabs. More chance of turning a profit. Check out other posts and the reactions to this suggestion. Never known anyone 'happily' running a bar. Even the farming equipment would make money twice a year.

As a matter of fact ! A Swedish guy did that. Sold pebbles to the Arabs !!