Army Not Greedy Like Politicians

[dave111223]

No .. the laughing stock would be the guy that skips over 1000's murdered ... etc

and yes constantly suing your opponents and the press ... is a form of terrorism.

Ok by that logic once the death toll of Iraqis/Afghans/Pakistanis goes over 1000, starting from January 20st this year; we'll be into "Obama's Reign of Terror"? And we just finished "Bush's Reign of Terror" and "Gordan Brown's Reign of Terror", previously "Tony Blare's Reign of Terror"?

Again .. you are trying to divert attention from your guy Thaksin.

But yes I think that much of the world (not only the Muslim world) would call Bush's time a reign of terror. However, we are discussing a Thai that did this to Thais and in Thailand. Your attempt to make this NOT about Thaksin is laughable or should I call it fanatical?

But this thread is about the Army's budget

Yes I'm fanatically trying to make a topic about the current Thai military budget NOT about Thaksin? Guilty as charged, seeing as it does have nothing to do with Thaksin, which is exactly my point from the beginning.

[jdinasia]

I guess you missed that Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY during his reign of terror in an attempt to cripple the military.

[dave111223]

I guess you missed that Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY during his reign of terror in an attempt to cripple the military.

Just out of interest what was the military budget in the year prior to Thaksins election, compared to the years during Thaksins term.

[jdinasia]

I guess you missed that Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY during his reign of terror in an attempt to cripple the military.

Just out of interest what was the military budget in the year prior to Thaksins election, compared to the years during Thaksins term.

Feel free to do some research

High levels of regional economic growth have fuelled increased procurement spending, not just in Thailand but across the Asia Pacific. China, for instance, has been on a spending spree, financed by several years of 17% increases in its military budget. Indonesia's 2007 purchase of Russian Su-30 fighters and warships is on the back of Jakarta's reported trebling of defence expenditure in the last seven years. Malaysia's arms shopping basket has included Polish tanks, Russian Su-30 fighters, and British frigates. Singapore's 2007 defence spending is US$6.3 bil, part of which is spent on Apache gunship helicopters, F-15 Eagle fighters, and stealthy La Fayatte frigates.

As yet, no one is talking about an arms race, but national procurement is invariably driven by the need to maintain the strategic status quo; to balance and counter-balance. Tellingly, therefore, Thailand's recent interest in acquiring submarine capability may not be disconnected from Malaysia's acquisition of French/Spanish Scorpene submarines, Singapore's leasing of Swedish Kockums Vastergotland-class attack submarines and Indonesia's purchase of two advanced Russia's Kilo-class 636 submarines, with options to purchase up to eight more by 2015.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/02/21...al_30066027.php

or take a look here ....

http://www.buyusa.gov/asianow/thdefense.html

and here for Pre- Thaksin spending

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/wor...land/budget.htm

and here at Janes

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Sentin...t-Thailand.html

[dave111223]

Feel free to do some research

High levels of regional economic growth have fuelled increased procurement spending, not just in Thailand but across the Asia Pacific. China, for instance, has been on a spending spree, financed by several years of 17% increases in its military budget. Indonesia's 2007 purchase of Russian Su-30 fighters and warships is on the back of Jakarta's reported trebling of defence expenditure in the last seven years. Malaysia's arms shopping basket has included Polish tanks, Russian Su-30 fighters, and British frigates. Singapore's 2007 defence spending is US$6.3 bil, part of which is spent on Apache gunship helicopters, F-15 Eagle fighters, and stealthy La Fayatte frigates.

As yet, no one is talking about an arms race, but national procurement is invariably driven by the need to maintain the strategic status quo; to balance and counter-balance. Tellingly, therefore, Thailand's recent interest in acquiring submarine capability may not be disconnected from Malaysia's acquisition of French/Spanish Scorpene submarines, Singapore's leasing of Swedish Kockums Vastergotland-class attack submarines and Indonesia's purchase of two advanced Russia's Kilo-class 636 submarines, with options to purchase up to eight more by 2015.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/02/21...al_30066027.php

or take a look here ....

http://www.buyusa.gov/asianow/thdefense.html

and here for Pre- Thaksin spending

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/wor...land/budget.htm

and here at Janes

http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-Sentin...t-Thailand.html

These budget do not seem to address the issue.

The "Pre-Thaksin Spending" link is for years 1980-1986 (ie pre-pre-pre-Thaskin) And according to articles there was a significant cut in military budget after the 1997 financial crisis also pre Thakin.

Please fill in the blanks below (from the data that you are using to make your claim for Radical military cuts under Thaksin):

YEAR BUDGET (USD) % GDP

1986 ~ 1,144,000,000

1996 ~ 2,700,000,000

1997 ~ 2,050,000,000

1999 ??????????????

2000 ??????????????

2001 ?????????????? <---- PLEASE PROVIDE THE DATA SHOWING HOW MUCH THAKSIN CUT THE BUDGET DURING THESE YEARS

2002 ??????????????

2003 ??????????????

2004 2,182 182,690 1.19%

2005 2,257 199,861 1.13%

2006 2,387 216,283 1.10%

2007(e) 3,194 235,317 1.36%

As right now it's looking like he did not cut the military budget at all?

[jdinasia]

lol again ---

Feel free to do some research

But apparently reading isn't your forte'

[dave111223]

lol again ---

Feel free to do some research

But apparently reading isn't your forte'

As i already said, i did, but was not able to find data for these year, during Thaksins administration. Seeing as you have stated that "Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY", i am assuming that you have the data already, to support this statement.

Or are we to assume you do not have any information to back up this statement?

Edited February 17, 2009 by dave111223

[grandpops]

lol again ---

Feel free to do some research

But apparently reading isn't your forte'

As i already said, i did, but was not able to find data for these year, during Thaksins administration. Seeing as you have stated that "Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY", i am assuming that you have the data already, to support this statement.

Or are we to assume you do not have any information to back up this statement?

Don't hold your breath waiting mate. The PAD tag team only have "dubuous" statistics when they can be loosly construed as supporting their arguments.

The whole reason for the thread was that 99.99% of TV posters would see it as the joke it is. The very thought that the Army are posturing as not been greedy and self serving is, I think, the main issue here.

I did enjoy the "reign of terror" list kicking off with a writ though, and it was his list on which he chose to put this above the spurious "1,000's killed". Suggests he doesn't believe that propaganda or why put being sued above it in a list of atrocities?

My mates daughter was a student with Thaksins son and swears blind she was given a chinese burn during Thaksin the youngers reign of terror at school.

Edited February 17, 2009 by grandpops

[PhilHarries]

My mates daughter was a student with Thaksins son and swears blind she was given a chinese burn during Thaksin the youngers reign of terror at school.

Only because Thaksin sold out his terror company to the Singaporean Chinese.

[Ricardo]

One of the military's major costs would surely be paying the troops, except that they're mostly doing their underpaid national-service, so all these figures are in fact distorted.

It would be interesting if, rather than wasting energy flaming one another, some of our ex-military posters might suggest, exactly what Thailand's military-requirements really are, and what they ought to be costing the country ?

[Bangyai]

I guess you missed that Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY during his reign of terror in an attempt to cripple the military.

Ahh ha. ....Interesting you should mention this. When I pointed out to Plus ( you may have seen one of his posts occasionaly ) that Thaksin wanted a smaller, streamlined and more professional army ( without all the dead weight, surplus to requirement generals ) , here is what the oracle himself had to say :

' Thaksin didn't have any vision for the army. The credit for restructuring and streamlining goes to Surayud, and definately not Thaksins cousin Chaisit. Installing his relatives and cronies in top positions was just about all the vision Thaksin had regarding the Military.

( this quote is from ' Police May cut Thaksins Rank' .....post 28 )

So are you saying Plus is wrong and I am right ?

[jdinasia]

I guess you missed that Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY during his reign of terror in an attempt to cripple the military.

Ahh ha. ....Interesting you should mention this. When I pointed out to Plus ( you may have seen one of his posts occasionaly ) that Thaksin wanted a smaller, streamlined and more professional army ( without all the dead weight, surplus to requirement generals ) , here is what the oracle himself had to say :

' Thaksin didn't have any vision for the army. The credit for restructuring and streamlining goes to Surayud, and definately not Thaksins cousin Chaisit. Installing his relatives and cronies in top positions was just about all the vision Thaksin had regarding the Military.

( this quote is from ' Police May cut Thaksins Rank' .....post 28 )

So are you saying Plus is wrong and I am right ?

No ...

try reading again .. and this time point out where plus was talking about the budget

Thaksin was doing something entirely different (as you well know).

[Bangyai]

I guess you missed that Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY during his reign of terror in an attempt to cripple the military.

Ahh ha. ....Interesting you should mention this. When I pointed out to Plus ( you may have seen one of his posts occasionaly ) that Thaksin wanted a smaller, streamlined and more professional army ( without all the dead weight, surplus to requirement generals ) , here is what the oracle himself had to say :

' Thaksin didn't have any vision for the army. The credit for restructuring and streamlining goes to Surayud, and definately not Thaksins cousin Chaisit. Installing his relatives and cronies in top positions was just about all the vision Thaksin had regarding the Military.

( this quote is from ' Police May cut Thaksins Rank' .....post 28 )

So are you saying Plus is wrong and I am right ?

No ...

try reading again .. and this time point out where plus was talking about the budget

Thaksin was doing something entirely different (as you well know).

LOL... JD Talking with you is a bit like Hercules dealing with the hydra. Never say die eh ? You're often saying reading isn't someones forte but it seems to be a bit of an Achillies heal of yours as well

Anyway, enough digressions....back to the topic ...the ' we're not greedy Military ' who are currently alloted 167 billion baht plus 114 billion baht for internal security which makes a total of 281 billion baht to be getting on with. Even you have conceded that a submarine is not needed. Surely can't you see that what is needed right now is not increased military spending. With the whole world slipping into recession do you really think that now is the right time for the military to ask for more money ?? Yes or no ..it really is that simple.

If the military really want to play an unnecessary game of catch up , why can't they be patient and let their proxy govournment weather the coming storm first. When the coffers start to fill up then they can get their greedy snouts in for a good feed., kickbacks and all.

[jdinasia]

I guess you missed that Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY during his reign of terror in an attempt to cripple the military.

Ahh ha. ....Interesting you should mention this. When I pointed out to Plus ( you may have seen one of his posts occasionaly ) that Thaksin wanted a smaller, streamlined and more professional army ( without all the dead weight, surplus to requirement generals ) , here is what the oracle himself had to say :

' Thaksin didn't have any vision for the army. The credit for restructuring and streamlining goes to Surayud, and definately not Thaksins cousin Chaisit. Installing his relatives and cronies in top positions was just about all the vision Thaksin had regarding the Military.

( this quote is from ' Police May cut Thaksins Rank' .....post 28 )

So are you saying Plus is wrong and I am right ?

No ...

try reading again .. and this time point out where plus was talking about the budget

Thaksin was doing something entirely different (as you well know).

LOL... JD Talking with you is a bit like Hercules dealing with the hydra. Never say die eh ? You're often saying reading isn't someones forte but it seems to be a bit of an Achillies heal of yours as well

Anyway, enough digressions....back to the topic ...the ' we're not greedy Military ' who are currently alloted 167 billion baht plus 114 billion baht for internal security which makes a total of 281 billion baht to be getting on with. Even you have conceded that a submarine is not needed. Surely can't you see that what is needed right now is not increased military spending. With the whole world slipping into recession do you really think that now is the right time for the military to ask for more money ?? Yes or no ..it really is that simple.

If the military really want to play an unnecessary game of catch up , why can't they be patient and let their proxy govournment weather the coming storm first. When the coffers start to fill up then they can get their greedy snouts in for a good feed., kickbacks and all.

Nice fast backpedalling you did there (since a streamlined and more professional military costs MORE than lining up a bunch of kids with AK's)

Do they NEED a sub? imho no. However, that's been in the works since about the time that their neighbors to the South bought them. So, If I were Thailand and Malaysia was buying submarines ... yeah I might.

Do I think a strong Thai military is better than a weak Thai military? Yes, all I have to do is look at the borders to know that!

Personally would I wait before making more expenditures? I don't know, they are in possession of more info than I am, but I wouldn't let Myanmar, Malaysia or Cambodia even attain parity if I were them.

Remember that as pointed out by others ... the military with National service being part of many Thai men's only advanced job training is vital in many areas other than just defense and internal security.

[Bangyai]

I guess you missed that Thaksin cut the military budget RADICALLY during his reign of terror in an attempt to cripple the military.

Ahh ha. ....Interesting you should mention this. When I pointed out to Plus ( you may have seen one of his posts occasionaly ) that Thaksin wanted a smaller, streamlined and more professional army ( without all the dead weight, surplus to requirement generals ) , here is what the oracle himself had to say :

' Thaksin didn't have any vision for the army. The credit for restructuring and streamlining goes to Surayud, and definately not Thaksins cousin Chaisit. Installing his relatives and cronies in top positions was just about all the vision Thaksin had regarding the Military.

( this quote is from ' Police May cut Thaksins Rank' .....post 28 )

So are you saying Plus is wrong and I am right ?

No ...

try reading again .. and this time point out where plus was talking about the budget

Thaksin was doing something entirely different (as you well know).

LOL... JD Talking with you is a bit like Hercules dealing with the hydra. Never say die eh ? You're often saying reading isn't someones forte but it seems to be a bit of an Achillies heal of yours as well

Anyway, enough digressions....back to the topic ...the ' we're not greedy Military ' who are currently alloted 167 billion baht plus 114 billion baht for internal security which makes a total of 281 billion baht to be getting on with. Even you have conceded that a submarine is not needed. Surely can't you see that what is needed right now is not increased military spending. With the whole world slipping into recession do you really think that now is the right time for the military to ask for more money ?? Yes or no ..it really is that simple.

If the military really want to play an unnecessary game of catch up , why can't they be patient and let their proxy govournment weather the coming storm first. When the coffers start to fill up then they can get their greedy snouts in for a good feed., kickbacks and all.

Nice fast backpedalling you did there (since a streamlined and more professional military costs MORE than lining up a bunch of kids with AK's)

Do they NEED a sub? imho no. However, that's been in the works since about the time that their neighbors to the South bought them. So, If I were Thailand and Malaysia was buying submarines ... yeah I might.

Do I think a strong Thai military is better than a weak Thai military? Yes, all I have to do is look at the borders to know that!

Personally would I wait before making more expenditures? I don't know, they are in possession of more info than I am, but I wouldn't let Myanmar, Malaysia or Cambodia even attain parity if I were them.

Remember that as pointed out by others ... the military with National service being part of many Thai men's only advanced job training is vital in many areas other than just defense and internal security.

Well, coming from the arch master of back peddling I would take that as a compliment if it were true.

I'd be pleased if you could provide evidence that a smaller and more professional army costs more than a large inept one over staffed with an excess of senior officers. As for kids with AK's I think you'll find the Thai army mostly uses American M16's

As for a strong Thai military, most people would agree it needs to be strong enough for the job in hand , which it currently is without increasing its budget.

As for Cambodia , Laos and Burma attaing parity .....in their dreams. Malaysia would be the most likely .... but do they represent a threat.......I think not.

The fact remains whether you can see it or not, that the military could hardly have picked a worse time to pester the govournment for new toys although personaly, if the Democrats find these requests untimely I have no sympathy for them.

[jdinasia]

I am sure all the ex-SAS and SEALS in Pattaya can help you with expense figures. (The number of senior officers in Thailand is an entirely separate issue)

[Bangyai]

I am sure all the ex-SAS and SEALS in Pattaya can help you with expense figures. (The number of senior officers in Thailand is an entirely separate issue)

I await ( as do we all ) with baited breath for a visitation from any SAS and SEALS that, finding themselves with a nasty dose of the clap and being unable to create merry hel_l down soi Yodsak as is their habit, have popped into an internet cafe and out of shear boredom are reading this thread. Perhaps they can enlighten us as to the costs of running a smaller more professional army........before they slit their wrists with a rusty razor blade.

I shall scrutinise their figures over a bowl of cornflakes tomorrow morning before proceeding to paint the living room.

[jayjayjayjay]

jayjayjayjay

Nope ... you failed to address the issues brought up and just flamed away (showing a distinct lack of knowledge about your claimed area of expertise in doing so). Enjoy talking to yourself since you can't speak to the subject

No claim to any area of expertise, read the post, back-of-the-envelope calculations, not exactly a claim of expertise. All figures are presented fairly and can be questioned. Read it, as translate as you like, but Thailand have a history of utilizing military funds very poorly, even more so now. The increase in budget is for Generals retirement funds, nothing else. I think you have been here long enough to understand the politics behind the game.

So what's your point. Take on another battle. This one is lost.

To paraphrase Dave111223, "You are a laughing stock mate"

Edited February 18, 2009 by jayjayjayjay