Break In Brainstorming

[12Gon]

Hola!

New to the forum and just got the confirmation from Kawasaki telling me that I can pick up my Er6 much earlier then expected, I'm full of questions!

Anyways, seen that the break in subject has been up in a few treads and thought that it might be good idea to create an own tread just for this.

There seems to be a lot of people thinking that an easy break in (the same as the manual books suggests) is not the way to do it.

Brad's view on how to do it is quite clear as well:

"I do this;

Immediately change the oil to NON synthetic oil and new filter (before I even start the engine)

Run the engine hard rev, break with engine for 35 km

Change oil and filter again (Non Synthetic)

Run with varied RPM until service (1000 km)

Change oil and filter again (Non synthetic)

Ride as I like until next service

Change to manufacturer oil and new filter again

The 35 km is just to flush the engine for loose debris, and you will be surprised how much crap there is in the filter when you do so. If you don't do the 35 km these particles get dissolved (or eroded to tiny parts) which makes a layer on the engine, does not really harm the engine much but it creates poorer oil flow and lubing.

Very simple and it makes the engine last longer, plus you get much more powerful engine as you don't get all the loss from running in as most people do."

Reading for example ashonbikes.com/node/620 & mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm , I guess it make sense to do a hard break in.

So now to all my newbie questions;

Bard why do you change a completely new oil filter, at the same time as you change the oil before you start up the engine? Where do you buy the NON-syntetic oil, reckon that the Kwaker shop has it?

What would be the expected reaction in the Kawasaki store if one insisted on changing oil and before one even took of? Is there any chance that they could use that against you if the engine broke down and state that the warranty is not valid as you haven't followed the owners manual advise on how to break in the engine?

If the Kwaker shop is ok with this, any suggested roads to do the first 35km break in on, surrounding the Kwaker shop?

What are your views on break in at the same time as one are touring? Doable?

Many people still seems to prefer a smooth break in and another forum member stated that if you only use 85% of the rews, the engine will last twice as long.

What are your views about all this?

Share your thoughts!

/12Gon

[thaicbr]

12gon just check with Kawa what oil they put in the bike from the showroom, Bard was talking about his new Yamaha fz6 which i believe they put syth oil in from new. most standard oil here is non-syth oil. like castrol power 1 nearly all bike shops have this. i personally concur that on modern engines you dont need to pamper them to much. the most important thing is alter the revs regularly, which in Bangkok will not be a problem

Good luck. pay attention to the midrange it can catch you out on BKK's slippery roads.

Allan

[neverdie]

12gon,

You could break your nuts over this one if you wanted to get really serious about it. Having said that, you've already read Kevin Ash stuff and also Bards info, really I have nothing much to add because its all a matter of opinion & theres much better qualified people than me to talk the tech stuff.

Having said that, its important not to labour your engine, especially whilst running it in & if you intend to keep the bike for sometime, I personally would ride around on the rev limiter. Also its a good idea to ride the bike throughout the rev range, not sit flat at 4-5000 revs for 200km down to hua hin and back in top gear. Alternate both your speed and revs.

Regarding changing the oil at the first time at 35km, thats a matter for yourself, I also agree that its important to change the oil often when the engine is new & also after run in, if the bike is only used on short trips I continue frequent changes. I ALWAYS CHANGE FILTERS AT THE SAME TIME AS I CHANGE OIL.

Forgetting the engine during run in for a moment, its important not to forget the rest of the bike....it may be wise to run around the bike with a spanner and screw driver during the first few hundred kilometres and see what is working its way loose OR perhaps was never tightened properly......seen a few blokes over the years riding around with bits of their new bikes hanging off or missing after a few short kilometres.

[Bard]

You got it mate, that is the way to do it.

I change filter always when I change oil no matter what, it's cheap so it won't break the bank.

You can buy Shell Helix Super 10W-40 at the Shell stations which is excellent for the purpose

When I did this with my Ninja, the Kwakers told me no need, I told them I like I pay and they did it.

Just do a road 17 km then back and change the oil

Yes you can continue the break in on touring that is what I do, just change gear while riding so the revs are changing when you ride in one speed, and every time you slow down break with the engine as much as possible. This is only for up to 200 km after that ride as you want, in Thailand with all the obstacles in the road you change revs all the time anyways, so no worries.

The smooth break in has lot of followers, and the only way to prove what does the best is to break in two bikes differently then do a dyno test after, plus pull the block and take a look. Now there is lot of data that you loose less power breaking it in hard than breaking it in smooth, there is also plenty of data supporting better wear in hard broken in engines.

The smooth tech is really back from the 1940's where the machining was way less accurate and you had to smooth the cylinder walls, then that makes sense. Modern engines is made so accurate by CNC machines you do not need to do this. There is a loooooooong explanation for this but I swear by this method, if I meet you I can talk about the entire theory behind both tech's over some beers.

Congrats with the new bike mate, enjoy and happy riding.

Cheers Bard

[gragra]

Don't forget there's a lot more being broken in than just the pistons and pots.

Here's a thorough thread on oil.

www.ducatimonster.org/forums/tech/122020-motor-oil.html

Note the interesting application of the NEO Magnets.

Happy reading,

G.

PS - the gent that contributed a lot to that thread is no longer with us. RIP, George.

Edited February 17, 2009 by gragra

[BigBikeBKK]

Agree with Bard and Tim- Hard break in is the way to go. Don't labor the engine, vary revs constantly and engine brake as much as possible. I didn't know Yamaha sells new bikes with synthetic oil- seems rather odd. Kawasaki uses regular 10W40 motorcycle oil in their new bikes so no need to change anything when you pick the bike up.

Also- as Allan cautioned- be careful leaving the Kwacker dealership on Rama 9- that road is very slick right now and you'll be on new tires- a dangerous combination. I got totally sideways pulling away from the first traffic light

I rode my new ER-6n for about 100km the day I picked it up before changing oil and filter that same afternoon. Bard recommends 35km. I don't think it makes a huge difference if you do 35 or 100, just change oil and filter early, ideally on the first day so that nothing can settle, and you'll be fine.

Here's a report I posted when I did my 1000km service:

Brought the ER-6n in today for the 1000km service and thought I'd share some pics. The shop was crazy busy as usual so once again my bike went upstairs to the air conditioned service bay- Don't I just feel like a VIP :jerk:

The gentleman in the green shirt is the manager of the service department. I'm so embarrassed that I can't remember his name. He's super cool, speaks some English, and has very good knowledge about all of the bikes that Kawasaki sells and is going to sell.

I've decided to use semi-synthetic oil with this bike because I've got to imagine that the hot climate here in Thailand takes it's toll on regular oils. (Plus I like to ride hard )

I always enjoy watching mechanics work, and it's a great way to learn how to take care of your bike and avoid the whole trial and error drama that often goes with working on a new machine. For example- I can see that getting to the air filter is definitely a two man job:

The air box is under the tank and you have do disconnect three hoses and one relay to get the tank off. Definitely a lot easier if one person holds the tank while the second disconnects all the hoses and relay-

BIG airbox:

Nice to see that the filter is serviceable- the plastic holder opens so that you can remove the sponge filter and clean. Score one for the environment! I can't imagine how an aftermarket filter could possibly breathe any better than the stock one...

A couple of views of the ER-6n on the stand-

You can see on the back wall some very fancy tools that they keep under lock and key. Man... if I could have a shop like this at home...

Keen observers will notice a bunch of older Ninja ZZRs in this picture. Some are going to museums and some are going to technical colleges. Way to go Kawasaki!

I've already mentioned I want to get an aftermarket exhaust for my ER-6n. I actually quite like the note of the stock exhaust, but as you can see in this picture the stock can is very big and with THREE cats it's very heavy too. One of these days I'll take it off just to weigh it.

Some final adjustments-

Enjoy your new bike! We look forward to hearing all about it and seeing pictures too!

Happy Trails,

Tony

[12Gon]

Thanks for a nice welcoming and all the replay's!

12gon,

Having said that, its important not to labour your engine, especially whilst running it in & if you intend to keep the bike for sometime, I personally would ride around on the rev limiter.

Sorry guys, I'm not a native English speaker so I don't really get this one. .

I should not labor the engine, but at the same time I should go up and down all over the rev limiter, right? How far should one go, going up just next to red or even go in on to the red line? How can I go so high up without labor the engine? Does this "not labor the engine" mean that I should just not overheat the engine?

Neverdie, good point there on bringing the screw driver etc.

Tony, can assure you it will come some pics!

Cheers!

/12Gon

[neverdie]

Thanks for a nice welcoming and all the replay's!

12gon,

Having said that, its important not to labour your engine, especially whilst running it in & if you intend to keep the bike for sometime, I personally would ride around on the rev limiter.

Sorry guys, I'm not a native English speaker so I don't really get this one. .

I should not labor the engine, but at the same time I should go up and down all over the rev limiter, right? How far should one go, going up just next to red or even go in on to the red line? How can I go so high up without labor the engine? Does this "not labor the engine" mean that I should just not overheat the engine?

Neverdie, good point there on bringing the screw driver etc.

Tony, can assure you it will come some pics!

Cheers!

/12Gon

12Gon, NO!

Labouring the engine refers to being in a too higher gear for the speed you are travelling at, for example being in top gear @ 40km/h & you try to accelerate away....its not mechanically kind to the engine, you know that you are in too higher gear, you can feel the engine struggling without even looking at the tacho. You don't want to make the motor chug along...does that make sense?

As far as breaking the engine in firmly, myself, I would ride the bike initially home, (for me thats about 80kms) then I would change the oil and filter. During the initial ride, I probably wouldnt exceed about 5000rpm. I would vary my speed up and down constantly. After changing the oil and whilst riding over the next 500 to 1000km I would slowly build up the revs from the 5000 max towards the redline, maybe around 9000rpm before completing another oil and filter change (first service) & after that I would continue to build on my maxium revs leading just prior to red line.

I personally wouldnt ride it for the first few km's & keep it under 5000rpm, then change the oil and filter and rev & pull out revving it straight into redline, your going from one extreeme to the other, instantly....In my opinion you should slowly build on increasing the revs.

Theres absolutely no point revving an engine into redline in normal riding conditions especially when the engines power curve generally drops off as it nears redline. Racers may chose to go to or slightly into redline to give them more initial revs immediately after the next gear change....ie: they redline 3rd gear so when they change into 4th they are already at 8500 rpm, as opposed to changing out of 3rd gear at 10,000rpm & only have 6500rpm in 4th.

Have a look at an engine dyno chart on the er6n motor in the standard format

and see where the peak power is reached.....theres absolutely no point caning the motor past that point in the initial few kilometres. I couldnt find a dyno chart for the er6n engine, maybe one of the other guys could post it for you & you can see where the power peaks in the rev range.

You need to be firm with the motor without being a pussy or too heavy handed.

Don't rev the engine without a load on it.....people that sit there with their ride in netural revving it to redline are asking for trouble, you'd be better off riding it in gear to redline.

After a few thousand kilometres do an oil & filter change, change to a good quality synthetic oil.....YOU will probably be cheering by then.

From everything I have been taught over the years, labouring the engine will most likely be more damaging to the engine than over revving it.

[BigBikeBKK]

12Gon, NO!

Labouring the engine refers to being in a too higher gear for the speed you are travelling at, for example being in top gear @ 40km/h & you try to accelerate away....its not mechanically kind to the engine, you know that you are in too higher gear, you can feel the engine struggling without even looking at the tacho. You don't want to make the motor chug along...does that make sense?

As far as breaking the engine in firmly, myself, I would ride the bike initially home, (for me thats about 80kms) then I would change the oil and filter. During the initial ride, I probably wouldnt exceed about 5000rpm. I would vary my speed up and down constantly. After changing the oil and whilst riding over the next 500 to 1000km I would slowly build up the revs from the 5000 max towards the redline, maybe around 9000rpm before completing another oil and filter change (first service) & after that I would continue to build on my maxium revs leading just prior to red line.

I personally wouldnt ride it for the first few km's & keep it under 5000rpm, then change the oil and filter and rev & pull out revving it straight into redline, your going from one extreeme to the other, instantly....In my opinion you should slowly build on increasing the revs.

Theres absolutely no point revving an engine into redline in normal riding conditions especially when the engines power curve generally drops off as it nears redline. Racers may chose to go to or slightly into redline to give them more initial revs immediately after the next gear change....ie: they redline 3rd gear so when they change into 4th they are already at 8500 rpm, as opposed to changing out of 3rd gear at 10,000rpm & only have 6500rpm in 4th.

Have a look at an engine dyno chart on the er6n motor in the standard format

and see where the peak power is reached.....theres absolutely no point caning the motor past that point in the initial few kilometres. I couldnt find a dyno chart for the er6n engine, maybe one of the other guys could post it for you & you can see where the power peaks in the rev range.

You need to be firm with the motor without being a pussy or too heavy handed.

Don't rev the engine without a load on it.....people that sit there with their ride in netural revving it to redline are asking for trouble, you'd be better off riding it in gear to redline.

After a few thousand kilometres do an oil & filter change, change to a good quality synthetic oil.....YOU will probably be cheering by then.

From everything I have been taught over the years, labouring the engine will most likely be more damaging to the engine than over revving it.

Brought to you by your favorite ER6n geek (aka, the spaghetti eating GOOMBA)

Tony

[neverdie]

12Gon, NO!

Labouring the engine refers to being in a too higher gear for the speed you are travelling at, for example being in top gear @ 40km/h & you try to accelerate away....its not mechanically kind to the engine, you know that you are in too higher gear, you can feel the engine struggling without even looking at the tacho. You don't want to make the motor chug along...does that make sense?

As far as breaking the engine in firmly, myself, I would ride the bike initially home, (for me thats about 80kms) then I would change the oil and filter. During the initial ride, I probably wouldnt exceed about 5000rpm. I would vary my speed up and down constantly. After changing the oil and whilst riding over the next 500 to 1000km I would slowly build up the revs from the 5000 max towards the redline, maybe around 9000rpm before completing another oil and filter change (first service) & after that I would continue to build on my maxium revs leading just prior to red line.

I personally wouldnt ride it for the first few km's & keep it under 5000rpm, then change the oil and filter and rev & pull out revving it straight into redline, your going from one extreeme to the other, instantly....In my opinion you should slowly build on increasing the revs.

Theres absolutely no point revving an engine into redline in normal riding conditions especially when the engines power curve generally drops off as it nears redline. Racers may chose to go to or slightly into redline to give them more initial revs immediately after the next gear change....ie: they redline 3rd gear so when they change into 4th they are already at 8500 rpm, as opposed to changing out of 3rd gear at 10,000rpm & only have 6500rpm in 4th.

Have a look at an engine dyno chart on the er6n motor in the standard format

and see where the peak power is reached.....theres absolutely no point caning the motor past that point in the initial few kilometres. I couldnt find a dyno chart for the er6n engine, maybe one of the other guys could post it for you & you can see where the power peaks in the rev range.

You need to be firm with the motor without being a pussy or too heavy handed.

Don't rev the engine without a load on it.....people that sit there with their ride in netural revving it to redline are asking for trouble, you'd be better off riding it in gear to redline.

After a few thousand kilometres do an oil & filter change, change to a good quality synthetic oil.....YOU will probably be cheering by then.

From everything I have been taught over the years, labouring the engine will most likely be more damaging to the engine than over revving it.

Brought to you by your favorite ER6n geek (aka, the spaghetti eating GOOMBA)

Tony

Thanks tony, youre a legend. Can you tell me what the er6n red lines at exactly?

12gon, look at the chart, knock a few revs off what I was saying before because I'm so use to 4's not twins.

You can see all the max power of this engine is basically coming in around the 7250rpm to 9,000rpm. Rev it to 11,000 for what, I'm assuming thats roughly where redline is? Naturally if your competing in a race, you may want to take your revs higher so youve got higher revs initially in the next gear....but thats not for engine break in, in my opinion.

I think its important to understand where YOUR particular ride devolps its power (You should feel it) but once you've learnt it you will know exactly where to change gears & what the benifits are of riding it in its peak power range...ie: this bike 7,000rpm to 9500 rpm.

[goldfish]

There seems to be a lot of people thinking that an easy break in (the same as the manual books suggests) is not the way to do it.

Of course. What would Kawasaki know?

[thaicbr]

Goldfish. Kawasaki know that they have to write a manual to cover all folk. so thats why they write it like they do. doesnt mean its the absolute best way for your engine BUT it's the best way for the lawyers and the beginner riders etc. So get back in ya bowl

allan

[neverdie]

There seems to be a lot of people thinking that an easy break in (the same as the manual books suggests) is not the way to do it.

Of course. What would Kawasaki know?

The way I have described in the easy break in method as opposed to getting on the thing and red lining it all the way home.....were you expecting the easy way was to carry the thing home in your big girls blouse handbag, you <deleted>?

[goldfish]

<deleted>? Nice. Naturally I haven't seen the manual but I'd be surprised if it recommends staying at a constant revs. Suspect it will recommend, pretty much as you say, to not labour the engine and to move through the rev range. But only up until a certain rev limit for a certain distance travelled.

As others have/will suggest, it is perfectly possible to red-line it as you leave the showroom and every avaliable opportuntity. You will almost certainly find it puts out more power after a fairly short distance but the engine will not last as long

[neverdie]

<deleted>? Nice. Naturally I haven't seen the manual but I'd be surprised if it recommends staying at a constant revs. Suspect it will recommend, pretty much as you say, to not labour the engine and to move through the rev range. But only up until a certain rev limit for a certain distance travelled.

As others have/will suggest, it is perfectly possible to red-line it as you leave the showroom and every avaliable opportuntity. You will almost certainly find it puts out more power after a fairly short distance but the engine will not last as long

I never suggested that he should remain at constant revs, I said the exact opposite, its never a good idea to travel along on a new engine at the same constant speed and revs....one should alternate this...whats your point?

I also never suggested that it wasnt possible to red line it straight out of the door of the dealership, but I think you will find the OP was looking for best practice for his new ride.....do you have anything decent to add?

Edited February 18, 2009 by neverdie

[Lickey]

Ride it like you stole it, but keep the engine "free spinning" dont let it labour too much,[as other posters sugest] is quite correct,

Change the oil and filter when you want, at break-in its a good idea to change the oil quik because its possible it still has "shipping oil" in it,

Keeping the engine spinning and not working hard, if you have a regular route and know the bends ect, say a 1 bends speed is 80k, and you are doing 100k, go down 2 gears to slow down for the bend, this will bring you back to the same revs when you in top gear [approx] accelerate out of the bend and go up the gears again, this will keep the engine singing and spinning and happy without using the brakes [which also need beding in] ...

I would think the running in procedure in handbooks is to protect the manufacture and the rider in a way that the manafacture doesnt want the possible novice rider killing himself and also to make sure the engine will last the warranty time,

Dont these new Kwackers have a rev limiter? My ZZR1100 had one fitted 1996 D2 model, hitting 176mph on the german autobahns and it would cut in, cutting out 2 cylinders, down to 160mph before it fire on 4 again, very scary,

Kawasaki has a reputation of having a bullet proof engine,look after it and it will look after you,,

Happy Riding, Lickey,,

[goldfish]

<deleted>? Nice. Naturally I haven't seen the manual but I'd be surprised if it recommends staying at a constant revs. Suspect it will recommend, pretty much as you say, to not labour the engine and to move through the rev range. But only up until a certain rev limit for a certain distance travelled.

As others have/will suggest, it is perfectly possible to red-line it as you leave the showroom and every avaliable opportuntity. You will almost certainly find it puts out more power after a fairly short distance but the engine will not last as long

I never suggested that he should remain at constant revs, I said the exact opposite, its never a good idea to travel along on a new engine at the same constant speed and revs....one should alternate this...whats your point?

I also never suggested that it wasnt possible to red line it straight out of the door of the dealership, but I think you will find the OP was looking for best practice for his new ride.....do you have anything decent to add?

No, nothing decent to add at all. Only view this forum to see if I can offer any help, am currently wondering why I bothered. Am taking a sabbatical

[Bard]

There seems to be a lot of people thinking that an easy break in (the same as the manual books suggests) is not the way to do it.

Of course. What would Kawasaki know?

On every single bike Kawasaki makes they do not recommend to go higher than 4000 rpm since the 70's, there is nothing about varying the revs, just not more than 4k.

Why would Kawasaki write that nonsense when with a cruiser that is fine while a supersport you labor the engine as they need 7k to go light?

The reason for the manufacturer recommend low rev break in is first of all this, liability.

Because when do a biker have most accidents? On a new unknown bike, right? Ir the 2 first year of riding. So if they recommend you to rev it high it will mean you will be going fast, if you are following the though you can see the lawsuits, they recommended me to wrench it and I had an accident.

Ask Kawasaki racing team and endurance team how they break in there engines... They rev it hard, they break in hard just as all the other teams are doing.

Cheers Bard

[12Gon]

Hi!

Thanks for the replay's!

I have now gotten the bike and started the run in process:)

I did like most of you suggested, NOT pampering the engine and also did a lot of breaking with the engine.

After doing that for the 35-40 first km's I went back to the Kwaker shop to change oil and filter. As they didn't have the Shell super oil 10w-40 that Bard suggested in the 2 Shell shops I looked at and no NON-synthetic 10-40 oil in any other gasoline station I looked at either and it got close to closing time in the Kwaker garage I decided to go with there 10-40 semi-syntetic oil. So that is what I use right now.

Regaring to motoman:

"Q: If break- in happens so quickly, why do you recommend using petroleum break- in oil for 1500 miles ??

A: Because while about 80% of the ring sealing takes place in the first hour of running the engine,

the last 20% of the process takes a longer time. Street riding isn't a controlled environment, so most of the mileage may

not be in "ring loading mode". Synthetic oil is so slippery that it actually "arrests" the break in process before the rings can seal completely. I've had a few customers who switched to synthetic oil too soon, and the rings never sealed properly no matter how hard they rode. Taking a new engine apart to re - ring it is the last thing anyone wants to do, so I recommend a lot

of mileage before switching to synthetic. It's really a "better safe than sorry" situation."

And later on Ash On Bikes writing this:

"“Although you can treat an engine as fully run in after 500 miles, surface stabilisation continues for at least the first 5,000 miles of an engine’s life,” he says. “Synthetic oils actively prevent this from happening, and not simply by holding friction surfaces apart, although we still don’t know exactly why and how this happens. But there’s no doubt they inhibit the process itself. So the consequence of using a synthetic too early is your engine will never run in properly. I would even suggest waiting until 10,000 miles (16,000km) before using it in most engines subjected to normal use. Until then, you’re best to use an inexpensive but branded mineral oil.”"

Should I find an real garage that sells NON-synthetic 10w-40 oil and replace the semi -synthetic oil that the Kwaker garage provided me with? Or does it just not matter that much?

Looking forward for your opinions:D

/12Gon

[Bard]

As others have/will suggest, it is perfectly possible to red-line it as you leave the showroom and every avaliable opportuntity. You will almost certainly find it puts out more power after a fairly short distance but the engine will not last as long

Why? Why will an engine with poorer sealing which let's exhaust gas blow into the crankshaft live longer? From engine break downs you can see it yourself, easy break in does not seal the piston rings properly and you get exhaust gas to the crankshaft. What is so good with that? How can that lead to longer life?

The good old days when they had to run it in easy to hone the cylinder walls (which the break in was 99% about) they replaced the piston rings after the break in and ran like shit. Why because that is how you make the rings seal properly, now in modern engines with the superior machining you don't need to hone the walls, just to seal the rings properly which is the most important part. This is also why they recommend dino oil, because it's thicker and makes it easier to seal the rings, after the break in you can use fully synthetic oil (I do) as your rings seal properly and it will lube the engine faster.

Whatever way you decide to break in the bike, always and I mean always warm up the engine before you ride to ensure all the parts have received lubing during break in.

Also note the high rev break in is for 4 stroke engines, not 2 strokes.

Cheers Bard

[Bard]

Semi Synthetic is better than fully synthetic. I would look for mineral oil and change, but it is up to you. Tony runs semi synthetic. I go with mineral for at least 1500 miles or roughly 2500 km, now my bike has a service at 35 km, then the factory one at 1000 again mineral oil, then another one at 6000 km then I swap to the manufacturer oil recommendation. So I run it 6000 km or roughly 3700 miles before I swap, but then again can just as well stay mineral for up to next service after that 12 or 16 thousand km depending of brand of bike. Why not?

Here is some mineral oils you can get in Thailand;

Shell Helix Super, Some Shell stations got it

Caltex Havoline Motor Oil, some car workshops got it

Castrol GTX, think I bough that in BigC

Probably more brands and oils but they're the ones I have used.

Cheers Bard

[neverdie]

Semi Synthetic is better than fully synthetic. I would look for mineral oil and change, but it is up to you. Tony runs semi synthetic. I go with mineral for at least 1500 miles or roughly 2500 km, now my bike has a service at 35 km, then the factory one at 1000 again mineral oil, then another one at 6000 km then I swap to the manufacturer oil recommendation. So I run it 6000 km or roughly 3700 miles before I swap, but then again can just as well stay mineral for up to next service after that 12 or 16 thousand km depending of brand of bike. Why not?

Here is some mineral oils you can get in Thailand;

Shell Helix Super, Some Shell stations got it

Caltex Havoline Motor Oil, some car workshops got it

Castrol GTX, think I bough that in BigC

Probably more brands and oils but they're the ones I have used.

Cheers Bard

OP, As Bard says above. Congradulations on you're new ride, hope you get years of joy out of it, make sure you post some pics in the er6n thread in due course.