Prime Minister Worries About Thailand Image

[hammered]

Big job for Abhisit? To borrow money from other countries to give free to some people in Thailand (not the poorest people) and to coordinate with someone to bring back Khun Thaksin.

I don't need to graduate from Oxford. I can be PM because I can borrow money and give money out for free. People will let Abhisit borrow money because they know in the past, Khun Thaksin paid the loan Democrat Party had with IMF.

Every recent Thai PM including Thaksin has resorted to deficit budgetting which I guess is what you are talking about. Defecit budgetting is accepted practice in many countries and businesses for that matter.

By the way think you'll find the IMF loan agreements were mostly signed in July and August of 1997 when Chavalit of NAP and later TRT was PM. Funnily enough I think your hero was also a minister in Chavalits government around this time too. McCargo's latest piece includes a nice throw away remark about how a certain persdon made a killing on the defence of the baht an dsubsequent devaluation. Still musnt let the facts get in the way of a good politcal mantra.

[Ricardo]

When you get one guy trying to 'do it all' there arrives a point of mental grid lock,

and concurrent ego inflation that makes the job a crap shoot for those who SHOULD be benefiting.

Do you perhaps have a recent example in mind, of this ego-led I-decide-everything personality-cult approach, here in Thailand ?

[Koo82]

Apparently Chuan is up in Khon Kaen listening to villagers ideas on development. Isnt there some UDD rally up there today? Interesting place for Chuan to visit.

They wanted to "welcome" him. They didn't see him because umbrellas blocked their sight

[TAWP]

I don't see any damage made with cooking on tv and buying land. They just make the law to aim at someone they don't like.

Sleeping at Government House...

is wrong

Why? It's ok to sleep inside Parliament....

This pictured dereliction of duty is exactly why moonlighting at another job is frowned upon, if not outright prohibited, by many organization/companies.

For the record, moonlighting is against my contract and is grounds for dismissal, even unpaid such.

I see no reason why the PM shouldn't be held to the same standard.

[jayboy]

A very interesting letter from a Professor at Oxford University concerning a rumoured "Abby" talk about, of all things, "democracy".

.

1) He's not a professor, just a junior reseach fellow - dozens of them around mostly glorified grad students and certainly don't speak for the University

2) Appears to be advocating censorship of Abhisit's proposed lecture at his old college, hardly an advertisement for the freedoms he advocates

Edited March 10, 2009 by jayboy

[hammered]

Lets be honest in the real world what gets said by whoever at an academic institution and especially one of the worlds most exclusive has little effect in the real world especially when it is on a fringe issue (real world) in a country most dont even think about.

The talk or demoing against it may be big for the very small circle of academics or students involved in Thai studies, which is a small insular and undeveloped world, but it will have little to no effect outside that circle with one pssible exception. If Abhisit is demonstrated against but is seen to stand up for his monarch against the demonstrators it will be reported all over Thailand to obvious effect - even better if it is seen as Abhisit standing up against Giles who is seen as a red shirt. In the outside world it will be just seen as another government leader heckled at a debate. Real Politik versus academic stuff. Why would Abhisit go if it wasnt potentially to his advantage? Dont forget Giles is a red shirt and his views are unacceptable. The government dont mind if people associate Giles and red shirts right now. In fact I am sure they positively love making sure the two remain linked.

[jayboy]

Lets be honest in the real world what gets said by whoever at an academic institution and especially one of the worlds most exclusive has little effect in the real world especially when it is on a fringe issue (real world) in a country most dont even think about.

The talk or demoing against it may be big for the very small circle of academics or students involved in Thai studies, which is a small insular and undeveloped world, but it will have little to no effect outside that circle with one pssible exception. If Abhisit is demonstrated against but is seen to stand up for his monarch against the demonstrators it will be reported all over Thailand to obvious effect - even better if it is seen as Abhisit standing up against Giles who is seen as a red shirt. In the outside world it will be just seen as another government leader heckled at a debate. Real Politik versus academic stuff. Why would Abhisit go if it wasnt potentially to his advantage? Dont forget Giles is a red shirt and his views are unacceptable. The government dont mind if people associate Giles and red shirts right now. In fact I am sure they positively love making sure the two remain linked.

It depends.My impression is that the talk Khun Abhisit will be giving will be a fairly intimate one at his own college, where quite correctly he will be an honoured and respected guest as a distinguished old member.The question is not whether there will be some boorish demonstration but whether he will be asked some rather more searching questions than usual.

I am still struggling to understand what you are implying when you say "especially in one of the world's most exclusive".Are you saying that what goes on in Oxford is somehow less relevant than other lesser places?

[hammered]

Lets be honest in the real world what gets said by whoever at an academic institution and especially one of the worlds most exclusive has little effect in the real world especially when it is on a fringe issue (real world) in a country most dont even think about.

The talk or demoing against it may be big for the very small circle of academics or students involved in Thai studies, which is a small insular and undeveloped world, but it will have little to no effect outside that circle with one pssible exception. If Abhisit is demonstrated against but is seen to stand up for his monarch against the demonstrators it will be reported all over Thailand to obvious effect - even better if it is seen as Abhisit standing up against Giles who is seen as a red shirt. In the outside world it will be just seen as another government leader heckled at a debate. Real Politik versus academic stuff. Why would Abhisit go if it wasnt potentially to his advantage? Dont forget Giles is a red shirt and his views are unacceptable. The government dont mind if people associate Giles and red shirts right now. In fact I am sure they positively love making sure the two remain linked.

It depends.My impression is that the talk Khun Abhisit will be giving will be a fairly intimate one at his own college, where quite correctly he will be an honoured and respected guest as a distinguished old member.The question is not whether there will be some boorish demonstration but whether he will be asked some rather more searching questions than usual.

I am still struggling to understand what you are implying when you say "especially in one of the world's most exclusive".Are you saying that what goes on in Oxford is somehow less relevant than other lesser places?

No, just how it is seen by ordinary non-academic people. People up there discuss these things kind of atitude. What is discussed in academic institutions at academic meetings per se is not really important to most people in the world but of more import to the small academic community involved. Within those communities the relevence of what is discussed probably varies by time, place, subject and speaker and what is discussed may be more relevent, equally relevent or less relevant between Oxford and any other institution. It probably also depends on the listener as well if we are honest.

[cmsally]

Whilst he is in Oxford it might be pertinent for Mr Abhisit to take a moment and reflect on the comparisons of what can be and cannot be discussed at Oxford and comparable institutions in Thailand. He might then come to the realisation of how farcical his topic matter appears.

One way to measure a civil society is to look at the freedom allowed its academics. I think we all realise that topics discussed in an academic institution are mostly just that, discussions and points of view. It is difficult to have a logical reasoned argument without looking at the extremes. It's like getting people to decide a point to live on the earth without having any knowledge of the Southern & Northern Poles. In Thailand people are expected to take the point allocated therefore assuming knowledge isn't necessary; surely the hypocrisy of this can't have escaped the notice of the PM.

[seri thai]

Whilst he is in Oxford it might be pertinent for Mr Abhisit to take a moment and reflect on the comparisons of what can be and cannot be discussed at Oxford and comparable institutions in Thailand. He might then come to the realisation of how farcical his topic matter appears.

One way to measure a civil society is to look at the freedom allowed its academics. I think we all realise that topics discussed in an academic institution are mostly just that, discussions and points of view. It is difficult to have a logical reasoned argument without looking at the extremes. It's like getting people to decide a point to live on the earth without having any knowledge of the Southern & Northern Poles. In Thailand people are expected to take the point allocated therefore assuming knowledge isn't necessary; surely the hypocrisy of this can't have escaped the notice of the PM.

Would be good to see an Abhisit/Ungpakorn debate in English at Oxford. Never happen tho'

Did anyone see the BBC interview with HRH about 10 years ago? Can't see that being shown here either.

[Plus]

I don't think Abhisit should waste time on "academics" like that John with his ridiculous allegations.

At the time of Rohingya incident the government didn't even exist, yet he wants to hold Abhisit personally responsible. This kind of stuff is good only for Internet newbies, not for any serious observer of Thai politics.

Equally, Abhisit shouldn't waste time on debating Giles either, not the same league. Abhisit is a Prime Minister representing 65 millions of Thais and Giles thinks that they are all idiots no deserving any respect. He only wants publicity. Why Abhisit should satisfy his rash to be in the news?

[hammered]

I don't think Abhisit should waste time on "academics" like that John with his ridiculous allegations.

At the time of Rohingya incident the government didn't even exist, yet he wants to hold Abhisit personally responsible. This kind of stuff is good only for Internet newbies, not for any serious observer of Thai politics.

Equally, Abhisit shouldn't waste time on debating Giles either, not the same league. Abhisit is a Prime Minister representing 65 millions of Thais and Giles thinks that they are all idiots no deserving any respect. He only wants publicity. Why Abhisit should satisfy his rash to be in the news?

One reason is that Giles has unacceptable views in Thailand and is known to be a red shirt. It serves to label the movement as of similar ideals which limits their popularity. However, maybe the government dont worry about the red shirts enough to use PR warfare against them.

[Plus]

They discredit themselves better than any PR machine. There's also a question of drying funds - Thaksin has no reason to pay for those useless rallies, they failed to achieve anything politically.

[hammered]

They discredit themselves better than any PR machine. There's also a question of drying funds - Thaksin has no reason to pay for those useless rallies, they failed to achieve anything politically.

I think true on every front with the Thaksin funded groups but there are some idealistic ones who dont want money. Not sure of the numebrs though so they may or may not be a threat.

I think Thaksin himself is trying to get small groups down to village level and even make call ins to villages which is obviosuly cheaper although there are a lot of villages in Thailand so it may not be that effective. Really he needs his people in power to protect himself and his turf. Otherwise it gets difficult for him.

[Plus]

Small rallies by reds here and there only play in Abhisit's hands, like the one in Lopburi. He can claim that he allows democracy and opposition to flourish and even congratulates them for being nice and orderly. They are no threat, just underline his credentials as a democratic and open minded PM.

[jayboy]

Small rallies by reds here and there only play in Abhisit's hands, like the one in Lopburi. He can claim that he allows democracy and opposition to flourish and even congratulates them for being nice and orderly. They are no threat, just underline his credentials as a democratic and open minded PM.

Perhaps we should take seriously Khun Abhisit's beliefs that Thais genuinely have the right to demonstrate within the law, and his congratulations to the Reds for being "nice and orderly" were heartfelt and not just a typical politician's cynicism.More specifically perhaps we should accept the rather unusual situation in Thailand that we do have a clean, democratic and open minded PM steeped in civilised values - in the tradition of Kukrit perhaps.Obviously he has to compromise and only the naive (our silly friend Jones from Oxford perhaps) don't understand the pressures he is under.He is uncomfortable with the way he came to power and he viscerally detests the PAD excesses, as all decent people should.He has been given a poor hand too because the economic outlook in Thailand is toxic and social unrest could give the Reds an unanticipated boost, strangely uncommented on in this forum.But he deserves our support.Let's say it's best to keep hold of nurse for fear of finding something worse.

Edited March 10, 2009 by jayboy

[hammered]

Considering the reshuffle has actually increased the power of Newin in ex-TRT strongholds the headline is correct and to say that the PAD's influence has been increased would be wrong. Newin's job and desire is to make sure he controls as much ex-TRT territory as possible. The Dems ar enot going to suddenly storm the Isaan or Chiang Mai rural areas. However, Newin who was one of team TRT may well take quite a lot of stopping by PTP, which is why they are so worried at the development.

By the way note that one school of thought goes that the PAD and Dems are falling out - particularly Suthep and PAD.

[Plus]

his congratulations to the Reds for being "nice and orderly" were heartfelt and not just a typical politician's cynicism

If he was talking to the bulk of demonstrators who behaved really well, I think we all can share in thanking them. It's very important for all future protests to have benchmarks like that, to grow a culture of peaceful protests.

Red leaders are a different matter.

[LevelHead]

Indeed, did Abbi get 100K baht too ?

Will he talk about any 100K payments in Oxford at the weekend ? Democrats got this due to democracy in Thailand......errrr........... ??????????

[bungy007]

Should the PM be so concerned about the image of Thailand , THE BRIT would have been out of jail , on a plane accompanied by a bouquet of orchids and his profuse apologies concerning the unthinking immigration officers actions . Some will say 'Guests' should behave with a modicum of respect , honestly , would you throw a 'Guest' at your house in jail just because he got his knickers in a knot ? I never consider myself a 'Guest' in a country , I am a fully paid up tourist or expat and think I could be afforded a little respect for that , after all , no tourism , no need for this type of arrogant behavior due to the fact he would be superflous to requirements .

Yes! yes! Yes! This talk of coloured shirts and bought off mobs really doesn't influence the world's perception of Thailand. we know that this is the way they operate - some countries probably exploit this to their own advantage. We know that Thailand is nothing but a pick and mix of vested interests! There have been so many hollywood films depicting third world countries and the plot is pretty much always the same - rival factions fighting for power and to split ill-gotten gains!

What Thailand really needs to do is to get its house in order when entertaining 'guests' to its shores! Thailand is no longer the backwater it once was - indeed it is a major manufacturing base for internationals who report to their own governments on the state of play in the Realm.

Time for Thailand's government institutions to respect tourists and expats as part of the link between the prosperity of Thailand and the rest of the world. By constatly shooting itself in the foot over such recent episodes such as Harry Nicolaides, the swiss reporter, the british tourist and unsolved murders of expats, Thailand is risking having to pass on to Cambodia or Vietnam or both, all the commercial advantages it has built up over the last three decades.

[sbk]

Please be aware that if you going to post a news article to not include one's own personal opinion in the post. Post a separate post regarding your opinion.

I am deleting all posts that continue to do this, after the fact of soundman's prior warning. Please do not PM me complaining because your post has been deleted, since it had already been made clear what is acceptable in the news forum.

[LevelHead]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...r-sondhi-claims

Suthep: Sondhi, watch your mouth

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 11/03/2009 at 11:25 AM Deputy Prime Minister and Democrat party secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban says Sondhi Limthongkul should be more responsible in his comments, after the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) leader claimed that each Democrat MP received 100,000 baht from King Power Group before the current government was formed.

Mr Suthep however believed the public would use their discretion in deciding who was right and who was wrong.

He also insisted on Wednesday the transfers of high-ranking civil servants under the Ministry of Interior were not part of the Democrat party's plan t

Edited March 11, 2009 by LevelHead

[LevelHead]

Indeed, did Abbi get 100K baht too ?

Will he talk about any 100K payments in Oxford at the weekend ? Democrats got this due to democracy in Thailand......errrr........... ??????????

[catmac]

I finds it interesting that so many think the PM actually has time to deal with every police misstep,

every border crossing incident, every industrial scandale that spilt over into public policy

and every single MP's private business affairs. Or every business weasel trying to take advantage.

The PM needs to deal with the big picture and not the details.

That's his job.

Quite right, of course. However, I remember when the PADistas would hold Thaksin personally to account for every single thing that went wrong!

The only flaw with your observation is that so many stupid things are now making the headlines (just cast your eyes down the news section of TV!), that the details are in danger of becoming the big picture. Has Abhisit any idea of what is really going on? Or does he persist in his fantasy world of freedom of the press, etc? I've yet to hear a single word from him that wasn't either a downright lie, or a load of waffle. How can a man who spent his formative years in the elitist cocoon of Eton and Oxford have tha faintest idea of what is really happening in Thailand?

[catmac]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...r-sondhi-claims

Suthep: Sondhi, watch your mouth

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 11/03/2009 at 11:25 AM Deputy Prime Minister and Democrat party secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban says Sondhi Limthongkul should be more responsible in his comments, after the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) leader claimed that each Democrat MP received 100,000 baht from King Power Group before the current government was formed.

Interesting that he didn't deny the payment, just got annoyed that Sondhi had spilled the beans!

[Plus]

Because this kind of allegation does not merit a response.

Why would KP pay to Democrats to join the government when everybody else was busy luring a hundred coalition MPs away from PTP?

[sriracha john]

It is beyond funny how the Red Shirts are now holding out Sondhi as a reliable, credible, and trustworthy source of information.

Edited March 12, 2009 by sriracha john

[Steve2UK]

PM: No donation from King Power

By: BangkokPost.comPublished: 12/03/2009 at 11:15 AM Prime Minister and Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva insists King Power did not give 100,000 baht to each Democrat MP before the government was set up, as claimed by People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) leader Sondhi Limthongkul.

Mr Abhisit said he did not know why Mr Sondhi made such an allegation.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/13...from-king-power

He [Chalerm] also welcomed claims by People's Alliance for Democracy core leader Sondhi Limthongkol that the King Power Company is paying 100,000 baht monthly kickbacks to Democract MPs.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/PrintNew...?DataID=1012813

Edited March 12, 2009 by Steve2UK

[Steve2UK]

Because this kind of allegation does not merit a response.

Why would KP pay to Democrats to join the government when everybody else was busy luring a hundred coalition MPs away from PTP?

Both Abhisit and Suthep have responded - the former explicitly denying it (see post before this).

But, according to TOC (that paragon of accuracy and truth?), Sondhi's claim would appear to be:

"...that the King Power Company is paying 100,000 baht monthly kickbacks to Democract [sic] MPs"

"is" and "monthly"..... as in ongoing now. No mention of "pay to Democrats to join the government". King Power has "issues" it would like addressed in its favour - so that would appear to provide motive. The alleged 100,000 baht per month payment to Democrat MP's seems to rate as means. Let's wait and see what, if anything, emerges further.

Then again - it is Sondhi and it is the (much-quoted by some here ) TOC. So why should anyone believe a word of it?

[hammered]

Because this kind of allegation does not merit a response.

Why would KP pay to Democrats to join the government when everybody else was busy luring a hundred coalition MPs away from PTP?

Both Abhisit and Suthep have responded - the former explicitly denying it (see post before this).

But, according to TOC (that paragon of accuracy and truth?), Sondhi's claim would appear to be:

"...that the King Power Company is paying 100,000 baht monthly kickbacks to Democract [sic] MPs"

"is" and "monthly"..... as in ongoing now. No mention of "pay to Democrats to join the government". King Power has "issues" it would like addressed in its favour - so that would appear to provide motive. The alleged 100,000 baht per month payment to Democrat MP's seems to rate as means. Let's wait and see what, if anything, emerges further.

Then again - it is Sondhi and it is the (much-quoted by some here ) TOC. So why should anyone believe a word of it?

Kings Power and Newin are connected iirc. PAD think Suthep and Newin are becoming too close at the expense of PAD influence. Claim Dems are being bought by Newinites........ Political games. Good timing with the censure debate appraoching too.