Ithailian Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Thought it might be useful to start a thread specific to the ER6-F ... Kawasaki is rumored to be offering the bike for sale in Thailand as early as August of this year. How many of you out there will be buyers? I'm in ... and hoping for ABS as an option. A very good spec sheet w/photos is attached .ER6FFacts.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I was wondering if someone was gonna do this or keep it in the er6n thread, afterall they are basically the same bike (plus a fairing). Having said that, it will be very interesting to see what the price difference is going to be, its less than $300 difference between the two back home in Oz. The new er6F certainly looks alot sharper than the old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithailian Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 Check this out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Awesome vid Jim! Looking forward to the ER-6f BIG time. I mentioned in the other ER6 thread that Kawasaki Thailand is talking to customers to judge the demand for ABS on the ER-6f, so make sure you let 'em know. To me it seems a no brainer. Blasted back to Bangers today from Khon Kaen in 4.5 hours on the ER-6n. Averaged ~140-160km/hr, with occasional blasts up to 180-200 and a fairing would have made the ride more comfortable. Happy Trails! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I have to agree if I would go for one of them it would be the f as fairing is pretty much a must have for comfort on trips. ABS never, I would never ever want that on my bike, but that is me. Cheers Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 ABS never, I would never ever want that on my bike, but that is me. Why don't you like ABS Bard? I've never ridden a bike with ABS. I've found it to be a great feature on cars. I imagine it can't hurt and I think it might come in handy on the greasy oily roads in Thailand this time of year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Ok since the Q is out, the ABS on bikes are not perfected yet, and they have an ugly tendency of working only on one side of the front brake. So your tire gets really worn on one side. Another thing is weight for the ER6f the extra weight is 4 kilo Then, when do you have ultimate stopping power on a bike? Exactly when the rear wheel lifts a tad from the ground or a controlled stoppie, that is ultimate breaking power which ABS brilliantly over rides because it thinks you are crazy so it lets go in a tadtadtad way like your car. I tried it and it shook the front while it did it's stunt. So no I don't like them as I like to be in control on a bike not leaving it to ABS. In a car it's different as you got 4 wheels and not 2, plus the car is not as sensitive with it's high curb mass as a bike. So if you ever ride, and an unforeseen episode happen in front of you what do you do? You hit the brake, it's slippery so you get off the brake and use your body to throw the bike around while trailbraking... With ABS people hit the brake the ABS does it's job and releases due to slipping, only problem is that our brain is are programmed to think when you hit the brake it's supposed to slow down so what do most people do, get fixated look straight into the situation with there fingers pinned to the brake and crash. Even in cars this is a problem, and with the more sensitive vehicle it is even more problematic, so I like the brakes to skid a bit get your attention locked on and go for avoidance, even going off the road is better than going into a truck. But by all means some people like it, on my new FZ6 it was optional and the first thing I said was no way. Cheers Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Oh almost forgot it. The benefit of ABS in a car is not valid on a bike as well, as the benefit is that you can break through corners right? Without loosing traction. On a bike you shall not break in a curve but into it, then apply throttle to push the weight to the rear helping you going through the corner, by call it lifting it out. So if you brake you will push the weight distribution to the front and that is not good at all, as it widens the curve immensely. So it really only works when braking on a straight or into a curve, if it slips on the straight presuming you do this on the front tire let go and turn around the problem. (same if you use ABS) if you slip into a curve, straighten the bike and try to reduce speed and go wide. (Same with ABS) so I fail to see the point other than on the rear brakes... An old trick here is to put a bolt to lock under the brake pedal from ever giving enough power to lock even if you stand on it. Cheaper and lighter... Cheers Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithailian Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Well, Bard's been riding a lot longer than I have, but from my perspective I still see the benefits of ABS on a bike, especially in the 'non-track' environment. Theoretically, the ABS only activates at the point where one would have locked up the wheel during braking. If me (or any other rider) is skilled enough to apply the brakes up to, but not past the point of wheel-lock, then no ABS ... and no problem. The huge benefit is see with ABS is going to be the time Somchai cuts me off without warning and I have to slow as quickly as possible. I'm talking about the no-reaction-time squeeze-like-hel_l kind of emergency stop. In that case, I don't want to rely on skill to modulate braking. It's a proven fact that even professional moto-racers can rarely out-stop an amateur on the same bike with equipped with ABS. As for the psychological effects of ABS causing the rider to drive into an accident, I also don't quite agree. Remember, if the ABS is on, I should have locked the wheel already at which point I'd be body surfing. I'd much rather have the ability to realize I don't have enough space and try to steer around the problem (with ABS on) vs dealing with a wheel lock situation which would require me to release and reapply the brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelmate Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Jesus here we go, Same as the break in method and what frickin oil to use. ABS is fine on bikes as long as you understand it. I have it on mine. Whilst I have never ever felt the need to do stoppie on Thai roads. ABS is pretty much a useful tool when you least expect it. I have not felt the ABS kick in yet. And yes have braked pretty hard at times. But if it is an option. Better to have it than not. I suspect it will be a boon on Thai greasy roads. Especially in traffic when you have a tendency to grab the brakes. Avoiding scooters, cars, pedestrians and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUDAS Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I'm in for the F version. Especially like the headlight setup on the F. I'm hoping it's released before August, May would be great 'cause that's rainy season down here so I head up to Issan for a month then. Just thinking about a month blasting around Issan road everyday As for ABS, got no strong feelings one way or another but at least should be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I luv the video, better still no slow cars to get in the way ....doesnt really look like any road Ive ridden on in LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelmate Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Darn, just watched the video. That is a good looking bike. And if price is near the original ER6N bike. Then it's defo real value for money. Edited February 23, 2009 by Travelmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Darn, just watched the video. That is a good looking bike. And if near the original ER6N bike. Then it's defo real value for money. Agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 ABS seems very divisive.. It also didnt help that early ABS was very poorly implemented and received.. I wont comment until I ride an ABS bike and even then would ideally want to ride an ABS and non ABS of the same bike.. In theory it sounds good, but then in theory having your missus bring a mate for a 3 some is great, but life is always one of unintended consequences !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUDAS Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 ABS seems very divisive.. It also didnt help that early ABS was very poorly implemented and received.. I wont comment until I ride an ABS bike and even then would ideally want to ride an ABS and non ABS of the same bike.. In theory it sounds good, but then in theory having your missus bring a mate for a 3 some is great, but life is always one of unintended consequences !! Freud was right then. Sex really does seem to be our driving force, found a connection between ABS and a 3 some. Love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Regs the ABS, I was just asked why I don't like it... What is the upside with ABS, brake at slippery condition without locking tires yes? What is the main downside, you always get longer stop distance with ABS than with non-ABS. So if you really need to stop for Somchai I prefer to stop faster... Anyways it's a thing people either want or see no point in on bikes hence it is optional at best on bikes or not offered at all vs cars, I see no point in it, and I understand that some others get some feeling of safety and it is worth it for them in that sense... Happy riding everyone. Cheers Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Bard, I also share your dislike of ABS, but for a whole range of other reasons. Having said that, I think it is inaccurate to suggest that all people will take longer to stop on a bike equipt with ABS as opposed to those same people on a NON ABS equipted bike. Having said that, I again, agree with most of what you have said. One thing to consider when riding a bike with ABS is that on some of these terrible roads around LOS, especially the ones with lots of dirt and sand and other debris on them, ABS may save you, but if you have reasonable riding experience ABS may increase your stopping distance significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelmate Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Regs the ABS, I was just asked why I don't like it...What is the upside with ABS, brake at slippery condition without locking tires yes? What is the main downside, you always get longer stop distance with ABS than with non-ABS. So if you really need to stop for Somchai I prefer to stop faster... Anyways it's a thing people either want or see no point in on bikes hence it is optional at best on bikes or not offered at all vs cars, I see no point in it, and I understand that some others get some feeling of safety and it is worth it for them in that sense... Happy riding everyone. Cheers Bard When slippery can you stop intact and upright with locked tyres let alone change direction? How do you stop faster on a slippery surface without locking? Tried stopping on diesel spill recently? Ever rolled into a gas station and gently squeeze the brake to come to a gradual halt only for the front end to lock and tuck under you. Under normal riding conditions ABS is pretty dormant. ABS is about keeping your bike upright for that fraction of an instance when your front end does lock. It releases the brake and allow the tyre to keep rotating. Thus giving you an extended opportunity to readjust to the situation at hand. ABS is not about stopping distances or stopping faster. It about giving you an opportunity of control in an environment that would otherwise be out of control. It gives you the chance to change direction and/or readjust braking pressure. One thing for sure it will react faster to a locked tyre than any rider's reaction will. Also shorter and faster stopping distances are achieved without locking the front. Therefore ABS would never come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithailian Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Perceptions and preferences aside, please refer the link (a scientific study of ABS vs. non-ABS under controlled conditions). ABS vs. Non-ABS Study Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I tell you what a bike with ABS, where you had an option to turn the ABS off, would be great. ABS on a dirt road is a nightmare & that is one place where I would prefer to lock a wheel and get thru a 'little bit' of lose stuff on top and to something firmer underneath. I use to disconnect the ABS on the car all the time because of this. As for oil on the road, wet road with oil or a few of those other scenarios that travelmate brought up & I wouldnt say no to a bit of ABS. Certainly one isnt going to travel along & during an emergency situation select between ABS and no ABS, but I would like to be able to turn it off when I wanted to. I havent owned a bike with traction control yet, but am keen to give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost in LOS Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thought it might be useful to start a thread specific to the ER6-F ... Kawasaki is rumored to be offering the bike for sale in Thailand as early as August of this year.How many of you out there will be buyers? I'm in ... and hoping for ABS as an option. A very good spec sheet w/photos is attached .ER6FFacts.pdf what is the guesstimate price for one. i have a 636XR now and love it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Thought it might be useful to start a thread specific to the ER6-F ... Kawasaki is rumored to be offering the bike for sale in Thailand as early as August of this year.How many of you out there will be buyers? I'm in ... and hoping for ABS as an option. A very good spec sheet w/photos is attached .ER6FFacts.pdf what is the guesstimate price for one. i have a 636XR now and love it Mate the er6n is 225,000 THB. In Australia the er6f is about $300 or 5,500 THB dearer than the n. They wont release the price for f until it is released, this august, so the short answer is that we don't know. Obviously ABS will be extra, something which has been offered with the er6n. Edited February 23, 2009 by neverdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelmate Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I have pasted the article here from Jim's link. CONCLUSIONS In general, the test results demonstrated an improvement in braking performance with the use of ABS, whether braking on a dry or wet surface even compared with the best stops obtained without ABS. Without ABS, the rider required numerous attempts to approach the maximum deceleration performance of the motorcycle. With the use of ABS, however, the rider was able to quickly obtain consistent maximum deceleration results, whether the vehicle was loaded or lightly loaded. Despite this advantage, the rider must remain alert because the ABS may not detect dynamic instabilities such as the rear wheel becoming airborne, possibly requiring the operator to reduce the brake control force to prevent a fall. With respect to CBS, its advantage was most evident through shorter braking distances, specifically when braking with the rear wheel only, whereby the CBS activates a portion of the front brake to assist in the deceleration of the motorcycle. In the real world, the emergency braking maneuver is likely to be an infrequent occurrence. Obtaining a high level of braking performance depends on a multitude of variables including weather conditions, road surface, condition and type of motorcycle brakes and tires, and operator expertise. The testing described above has shown that the operation of the ABS may not be as simple as “slamming on the brakes.” To achieve the best braking performance, the rider must ensure that the rear wheel is on the ground throughout the stop. However, the results of this testing make it clear that, of the motorcycles tested, those equipped with the anti-lock braking system provide all riders with the advantage of a high level of braking performance at the time of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Dude people take this bloody seriously. The conclusion is good read though, no ABS shorter brake distance, well known since the introduction of them. Heavier bike, costlier bike but gives some people fuzzy warm feelings of safety. I tried it and I loathed it personally but again that is me, if you feel the need go for it. One thing I want to stress with ABS is don't think of it's as it's there so you don't become one of the pinned brakes fixated victims. I learned to drive and ride without and I see no need for it on a bike, where I come from we drove and rode on ice covered road surface, what it takes is not ABS it takes adjusting the speed and riding/driving technique to the surface condition. So the problem they found from back home was drivers with ABS got a false sense of security and when the brakes go in anti-lock mode with brake distance to far, they were shell shocked and crashed. So drive or ride as it's not there for the ones having it, and you'll be fine. Cheers Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelmate Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 It all good. Just highlighting the fact ABS is good for your health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 It all good. Just highlighting the fact ABS is good for your health. Maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 It all good. Just highlighting the fact ABS is good for your health. I know, when I was younger I had a six pack for ABS now it's just a one pack though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Mate the er6n is 225,000 THB.In Australia the er6f is about $300 or 5,500 THB dearer than the n. They wont release the price for f until it is released, this august, so the short answer is that we don't know. Obviously ABS will be extra, something which has been offered with the er6n. Just a point of clarification- At this time ABS is NOT an option on the ER-6n being sold in Thailand. I told the nice folks at Kawasaki that they should seriously consider offering the ABS version and seems they are looking into it and may give us the option for ABS on the ER-6f. Price TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Mate the er6n is 225,000 THB.In Australia the er6f is about $300 or 5,500 THB dearer than the n. They wont release the price for f until it is released, this august, so the short answer is that we don't know. Obviously ABS will be extra, something which has been offered with the er6n. Just a point of clarification- At this time ABS is NOT an option on the ER-6n being sold in Thailand. I told the nice folks at Kawasaki that they should seriously consider offering the ABS version and seems they are looking into it and may give us the option for ABS on the ER-6f. Price TBD. I remember you saying that, sorry it doesnt really come across in my post that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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