Is It A Shock Absorber Problem?

[sunny747]

hi all,

need to ask something to you guys.

i am not really sure what is the problem with my car but when 3 people seats at the back, my car usually goes very down and the body touches the wheel.

whenever there is a crack on the road, it feels really hard inside the car.It is not smooth and pleasant. It's an old lancer from 94. (ECAR).

is it a shock absorber problem? do i have to replace it? what exactly could be the problem?

[culicine]

Perhaps the springs have had it? If it's sinking down thats not to do with the shockabsorbers. How far down does a regular mitsu sink if the springs are in good condition? The tyre shouldn't touch the bodywork in either case. A new set of springs are about 7000-8500 a set. Get the shocks checked and replaced as necessary.

Note I got H&R shocks for my car (honda civic) - looks cool - they are stiffer but much lower, hence can't really overlead the boot anymore. Put lots of heavy bricks in it and it looked like a low rider haha. Perhaps just get some new OEM springs.

[sunny747]

hi again, hope not asking too much. what is the difference between shock absorber and the spring? if i feel hard on rocky road, which one is responsible?

thanks>

[neverdie]

Sunny, the springs offer the strength and the shock absorber does exactly whats its name suggests, it reduces the roughness in the ride, absorbs the shock.

Personally in a vehicle that old, I would probably replace both with good quality parts, try a well known brand in both the springs and the shock absorber, perhaps a gas shock absorber.

You will notice an increased enhancement to the quality of the vehicles ride and handling, the braking will also be improved.

[mijan24]

Perhaps the springs have had it? If it's sinking down thats not to do with the shockabsorbers. How far down does a regular mitsu sink if the springs are in good condition? The tyre shouldn't touch the bodywork in either case. A new set of springs are about 7000-8500 a set. Get the shocks checked and replaced as necessary.

Note I got H&R shocks for my car (honda civic) - looks cool - they are stiffer but much lower, hence can't really overlead the boot anymore. Put lots of heavy bricks in it and it looked like a low rider haha. Perhaps just get some new OEM springs.

Are you saying by fitting different shock absorbers you lowered the centre of gravity of the vehicle?

[culicine]

Perhaps the springs have had it? If it's sinking down thats not to do with the shockabsorbers. How far down does a regular mitsu sink if the springs are in good condition? The tyre shouldn't touch the bodywork in either case. A new set of springs are about 7000-8500 a set. Get the shocks checked and replaced as necessary.

Note I got H&R shocks for my car (honda civic) - looks cool - they are stiffer but much lower, hence can't really overlead the boot anymore. Put lots of heavy bricks in it and it looked like a low rider haha. Perhaps just get some new OEM springs.

Are you saying by fitting different shock absorbers you lowered the centre of gravity of the vehicle?

Oops sorry, i mean't H&R springs. I just noticed the typo. Sorry for any confusion. Anyway, something like Koni yellows (shocks) have adjustable damping rates and might stop some of the bounciness, though new regular gas shocks should be ok for his application.

[sunny747]

Like when you are in the new car, it feels really comfortable and smooth. I just want that feel.

[neverdie]

Like when you are in the new car, it feels really comfortable and smooth. I just want that feel.

Buy a new car.

Or try starting with replace the shock absorbers & if ur still not happy with the ride of the vehicle then change the springs. See how you go, what keeps you happy.

But seriously there is no point paying for crap products, you only get what you pay for.

[sunny747]

ya i know. I don't want to spend that much cash to get a new car. Not sure how long i will stay here. Getting bank loan is close to hel_l and i didn't even try for it. Just to get a credit card is so hard here. I'm fully qualified for CC still they make so much crap.

hence i got an old car so far enjoying it. slowly i'm modifying my car as i see many thai dudes does amazing job to their Ecar. I just want to get away from the farang price so i usually come ask the experts here. Before i go garage, i make sure i know my problem and the price.

[mijan24]

ya i know. I don't want to spend that much cash to get a new car. Not sure how long i will stay here. Getting bank loan is close to hel_l and i didn't even try for it. Just to get a credit card is so hard here. I'm fully qualified for CC still they make so much crap.

hence i got an old car so far enjoying it. slowly i'm modifying my car as i see many thai dudes does amazing job to their Ecar. I just want to get away from the farang price so i usually come ask the experts here. Before i go garage, i make sure i know my problem and the price.

sunny747 Fair call it is certainle in line with never invest (read buy anything) more in Thailand than you can afford to walk away from.

[ballbreaker]

hi all,

need to ask something to you guys.

i am not really sure what is the problem with my car but when 3 people seats at the back, my car usually goes very down and the body touches the wheel.

The springs are what support the car body so if car body touches the wheel with 3 people in back seat your springs need replacement.

whenever there is a crack on the road, it feels really hard inside the car.It is not smooth and pleasant. It's an old lancer from 94. (ECAR).

Have you checked your tire pressure making sure your not over inflated?

is it a shock absorber problem? do i have to replace it? what exactly could be the problem?

Shock absorbers dampen the spring movement so wheel doesn't bounce up and down like a pogo stick when you hit bumps.

[Lickey]

It seems your springs are weak and the bump-stops are missing,

All vehicles have bump-stops fitted, its an overload safety protection thats designed to stop the body work touching the wheel, without these, the body work can stop the steering and lock the wheel in severe cases.

On your rear axle should be a bump-stop either side near the wheel and spring, its usually a bonded rubber block fixed to the axle or body, sometimes inside a coil spring, or above a leaf spring with a buffer point above on the chassis.

If there is enough thread on the spring securing U-bolts [15mm] perhaps add another leaf to the springs, this would be a lot cheaper than new springs and shockers,

But check the bump-stops first,,

[sunny747]

It seems your springs are weak and the bump-stops are missing,

All vehicles have bump-stops fitted, its an overload safety protection thats designed to stop the body work touching the wheel, without these, the body work can stop the steering and lock the wheel in severe cases.

On your rear axle should be a bump-stop either side near the wheel and spring, its usually a bonded rubber block fixed to the axle or body, sometimes inside a coil spring, or above a leaf spring with a buffer point above on the chassis.

If there is enough thread on the spring securing U-bolts [15mm] perhaps add another leaf to the springs, this would be a lot cheaper than new springs and shockers,

But check the bump-stops first,,

thanks for the inputs. this is the first time i heard about bump-stops. so u think it's spring problem, not the shock absorber?

I asked in one of the Thai forum and one thai dude suggested to change coil spring , strut insulator , spring seat upper and rubber bumper. Is this package necessary if i change shock absorber?

i'm getting really confused here. what to change? spring or shock? or both? then what is this packages? help me.

[tb86]

you need new spring packs, the suspension on your car is comprised of two seperate components

1.) the spring pack= this gives your car its ride height, the spring carries the weight of your vehicle as well as providing your ride smoothness or lack of. It is comprised of several arched metal leafs that are bound together if the springs are worn and bent of even cracked they will not provide any support to you sprung weight ie passengers, cargo ect. this is what you need to have replaced.

2.) shock absorbers- A gas or oil mix in a cylnder with a dampening piston attached to the frame and axle housing/a arms thses will dull out the roughness of the road, get new ones as well if your springs are gone its pretty likely you shocks are dead as well.

so you need for sure new springs, new shocks would be a good idea if your already spending the money,,,,forget about the bumpstops, if your springs are broken or collapsed your bumpstops will be coming in contact with each other on bumps due to the lack of your static ride height due to the worn out springs.....

Edited February 24, 2009 by tb86

[sunny747]

you need new spring packs, the suspension on your car is comprised of two seperate components

1.) the spring pack= this gives your car its ride height, the spring carries the weight of your vehicle as well as providing your ride smoothness or lack of. It is comprised of several arched metal leafs that are bound together if the springs are worn and bent of even cracked they will not provide any support to you sprung weight ie passengers, cargo ect. this is what you need to have replaced.

2.) shock absorbers- A gas or oil mix in a cylnder with a dampening piston attached to the frame and axle housing/a arms thses will dull out the roughness of the road, get new ones as well if your springs are gone its pretty likely you shocks are dead as well.

so you need for sure new springs, new shocks would be a good idea if your already spending the money,,,,forget about the bumpstops, if your springs are broken or collapsed your bumpstops will be coming in contact with each other on bumps due to the lack of your static ride height due to the worn out springs.....

very clear . Thank you. great information.

[sunny747]

i went to the garage and he told me that my shock and spring is okai. No need to change as changing would cost me 17000 baht in total with shock and spring. Thai made shocks he said is not good and it's better to fix what i have built in. he said my shock is original and it could be lowered or upper depending on my choice. But thai made socks are stiff.

He said he can fix it with gas and stuff....didn't hear about that before..charging me 4500 baht for four shocks.

[Lickey]

Please acept my apoligies about bump-stops, it seems it was a stupid post by me to sugest that bump-stops are there and fitted by ALL auto manufactores as a last resort to stop the body contacting the turning wheels,

Shock absorbes dont come into ride height at all, they are there to absorb shocks from the road, if you have such a thing as a gas adjustable shocker, it will by gasing it up make the ride hard.

If you want to do a test on your shock absorbers,press down on the left side rear of your car, your full weight, if it comes back to normal after 1 movement, all is ok, if it continues to bounce, then that shocker is finished, try this on all 4 corners of your car then you will know what shockers to replace,

[philipm]

check your shocks and springs.

most likely if they are your std shocks, they would have died about now,

luckly you have so many different options to also go for, meaning you will most likely get a better suspensions then your std setup when you bought the car new.

[tb86]

Please acept my apoligies about bump-stops, it seems it was a stupid post by me to sugest that bump-stops are there and fitted by ALL auto manufactores as a last resort to stop the body contacting the turning wheels,

Shock absorbes dont come into ride height at all, they are there to absorb shocks from the road, if you have such a thing as a gas adjustable shocker, it will by gasing it up make the ride hard.

If you want to do a test on your shock absorbers,press down on the left side rear of your car, your full weight, if it comes back to normal after 1 movement, all is ok, if it continues to bounce, then that shocker is finished, try this on all 4 corners of your car then you will know what shockers to replace,

bump stops are also used to limit suspension travel, ie hydro bumpstops

depending on the suspension set up there are several applications that shock absorbers directly effect the ride height ie air shocks, in coilover shock applications, a ruptured shock will cause total suspension failure, as with damage to bypass links to remote resovoir coilovers

[Lickey]

Makes me wonder why manufactores havent fitted air suspension, same as big trucks for a long time now, all cars and pick-ups have a brake valve, which means the more weight in the vehchile the more brake power goes to that axle, same with air suspension, the more weight you put in your truck, the air valve compensates this and you get a regular ride height, and braking power to match, i would think its all to do with the cost of an air compressor for the engine and all the relative bits and pieces, anybody know of a car with type of suspension?

[Gary A]

Makes me wonder why manufactores havent fitted air suspension, same as big trucks for a long time now, all cars and pick-ups have a brake valve, which means the more weight in the vehchile the more brake power goes to that axle, same with air suspension, the more weight you put in your truck, the air valve compensates this and you get a regular ride height, and braking power to match, i would think its all to do with the cost of an air compressor for the engine and all the relative bits and pieces, anybody know of a car with type of suspension?

I'd guess they are still available. Many years ago having your car raked was all the style. Raked means the back is much higher than the front. The easiest way to do that was by installing air shocks. The more air you put in them, the higher the back of the car would go. The shocks were connected together with air lines and the fill valve was normally beside the license plate.

[tb86]

Makes me wonder why manufactores havent fitted air suspension, same as big trucks for a long time now, all cars and pick-ups have a brake valve, which means the more weight in the vehchile the more brake power goes to that axle, same with air suspension, the more weight you put in your truck, the air valve compensates this and you get a regular ride height, and braking power to match, i would think its all to do with the cost of an air compressor for the engine and all the relative bits and pieces, anybody know of a car with type of suspension?

http://www.scorpion4x4.com firestone airbags, adjustable hide height, ect

[Lancashirelad]

Makes me wonder why manufactores havent fitted air suspension, same as big trucks for a long time now, all cars and pick-ups have a brake valve, which means the more weight in the vehchile the more brake power goes to that axle, same with air suspension, the more weight you put in your truck, the air valve compensates this and you get a regular ride height, and braking power to match, i would think its all to do with the cost of an air compressor for the engine and all the relative bits and pieces, anybody know of a car with type of suspension?

In the 80's some Vauxhall Cavaliers had air adjustable ride height on the rear.

Now some Range Rovers have air suspension......... from what i hear, they are very unreliable & often replaced with more conventional spring systems.

I drive a Mercedes Actros with air sprung seat & rear axles.... now thats ok :-)

[keemapoot]

This is a related but probably easy question.

My gf's brother got hold of her Corolla years ago, and lowered it, and put low profile tires on the car, glass pack muffler, etc... Recently, I made the mistake of having that brother put new tires and shocks and told him to raise the car back to normal. Yup, you guessed it...came back same height, new shocks and new low profile tires.

We took the car on a long road trip across Thailand and the car kept scraping bottom on the uneven roads. I would like to go correct the car, have it put back to regular height (I assume some spacers or something were put into the coil springs?), but I'm now wondering if I need to replace the low profile tires as well back to OEM specs, or it will look funny?

Anybody have experience with this?

[culicine]

This is a related but probably easy question.

My gf's brother got hold of her Corolla years ago, and lowered it, and put low profile tires on the car, glass pack muffler, etc... Recently, I made the mistake of having that brother put new tires and shocks and told him to raise the car back to normal. Yup, you guessed it...came back same height, new shocks and new low profile tires.

We took the car on a long road trip across Thailand and the car kept scraping bottom on the uneven roads. I would like to go correct the car, have it put back to regular height (I assume some spacers or something were put into the coil springs?), but I'm now wondering if I need to replace the low profile tires as well back to OEM specs, or it will look funny?

Anybody have experience with this?

You need to replace the springs. One option is to get some froma wreckers, or buy new ones. I think H&R have oem springs, and probably other brands too. Just how low is this car? sounds pretty low if its scraping on uneven roads. What part of the car is hitting the road? It could be the exhaust. Perhaps the exhaust can be moved closer to the bodywork. My car is lowered 2 inches but generally won't hit the pavement. I canged to these because my car looked not so nice with low profile tyres. Also the ride is firmer but much more stable. Perhaps you need another set of lowered speings but not so low the next time. I hated the oem springs as they were too bouncy for my liking. Each to his/her own i guess.

[keemapoot]

This is a related but probably easy question.

My gf's brother got hold of her Corolla years ago, and lowered it, and put low profile tires on the car, glass pack muffler, etc... Recently, I made the mistake of having that brother put new tires and shocks and told him to raise the car back to normal. Yup, you guessed it...came back same height, new shocks and new low profile tires.

We took the car on a long road trip across Thailand and the car kept scraping bottom on the uneven roads. I would like to go correct the car, have it put back to regular height (I assume some spacers or something were put into the coil springs?), but I'm now wondering if I need to replace the low profile tires as well back to OEM specs, or it will look funny?

Anybody have experience with this?

You need to replace the springs. One option is to get some froma wreckers, or buy new ones. I think H&R have oem springs, and probably other brands too. Just how low is this car? sounds pretty low if its scraping on uneven roads. What part of the car is hitting the road? It could be the exhaust. Perhaps the exhaust can be moved closer to the bodywork. My car is lowered 2 inches but generally won't hit the pavement. I canged to these because my car looked not so nice with low profile tyres. Also the ride is firmer but much more stable. Perhaps you need another set of lowered speings but not so low the next time. I hated the oem springs as they were too bouncy for my liking. Each to his/her own i guess.

Thanks for your reply. The car hits front on low curbs, and was hitting both front and back on the road trip. I looked under the car and the muffler pipe is definitely hanging too low. I had them redo the muffler to go back to a quieter stock sound. However, on the road trip, it seemed that the tires were scraping, mostly in the rear. I do like the feel and handling of the low profile tires and lowered body, but I need something we can take cross country sometimes and this doesn't work. I don't think I want to go back to OEM springs, from what you described as bouncy.

It's quite low. I'll go to a garage later this week and report back what we figure out.

[culicine]

It could also be that the springs are old and have sagged or have too much play in them. Are they proper lowered springs or did the previous owner cut the originals (a big no no). Talk to the garage - you might find something for an intermediate ride height. You can also get adjustable suspension but it isn't cheap (say 30K and above for adjustable coilovers. Thats ok on an expensive car, but not one like mine haha. I have had to adjust my driving habits a bit - slower over rough roads. Do your front tyres his the fender on tight turns? Mine does that when turning hard over rough roads. There's only a few mm gap between the tyre and fender than, so that's to be expected. Flooding is more of a worry now as I'm closer to the ground - thats another consideration. Good luck getting it sorted out.

Edited March 17, 2009 by culicine