Thai Company

[mattias33]

I have a company that has not been doing anything for the last year. It is set up with the "48 % and 52% thaiowners". All properly and set to do many different things. A farang can buy it and get a workpermit and yearvisa on it (i had that myself 2 years ago). However, to close it i would have to pay 15 000 baht for a balance sheet and another 15 000 baht to some office in Surath. According to my attorney. BUT, she says "why dont you sell it?". Apperently its not so easy to open a company like this today, where a farang can get a workpermit in the company?

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

And also, if i do manage to sell it, is it easy paperworks to transfer the ownership? Are there any taxes to be paid or something like that if i sell it?

I could ask further with my attornies but i want to have other peoples oppinions also since i dont fully trust them.

Thx

[sbk]

If you would like a broader response, I can move this to the business forum, mattias. There are alot of people who visit that forum that have some experience in these matters.

[Rooo]

I have a company that has not been doing anything for the last year. It is set up with the "48 % and 52% thaiowners". All properly and set to do many different things. A farang can buy it and get a workpermit and yearvisa on it (i had that myself 2 years ago). However, to close it i would have to pay 15 000 baht for a balance sheet and another 15 000 baht to some office in Surath. According to my attorney. BUT, she says "why dont you sell it?". Apperently its not so easy to open a company like this today, where a farang can get a workpermit in the company?

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

And also, if i do manage to sell it, is it easy paperworks to transfer the ownership? Are there any taxes to be paid or something like that if i sell it?

I could ask further with my attornies but i want to have other peoples oppinions also since i dont fully trust them.

Thx

Setting up a company today,a 1 million baht co, must show the funds.That means you have to show your portion as well as you Thai share holders,hence it is a bit harder now to just walk off the street & open one.

The cost of setting up a Co, varies between 15K to 30 K depending who you use.You have to file a return every year (12k to 15 K ),end of financial year is december, as well as an activity report in june (minimal cost).

Selling it, is no problem.Fees involved are minimal, as it has to be advertised in the paper.You are basically relinquishing your directorship & getting other directors in.

[mattias33]

If you would like a broader response, I can move this to the business forum, mattias. There are alot of people who visit that forum that have some experience in these matters.

Good idea sbk, please do so. Thx.

[mattias33]

I have a company that has not been doing anything for the last year. It is set up with the "48 % and 52% thaiowners". All properly and set to do many different things. A farang can buy it and get a workpermit and yearvisa on it (i had that myself 2 years ago). However, to close it i would have to pay 15 000 baht for a balance sheet and another 15 000 baht to some office in Surath. According to my attorney. BUT, she says "why dont you sell it?". Apperently its not so easy to open a company like this today, where a farang can get a workpermit in the company?

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

And also, if i do manage to sell it, is it easy paperworks to transfer the ownership? Are there any taxes to be paid or something like that if i sell it?

I could ask further with my attornies but i want to have other peoples oppinions also since i dont fully trust them.

Thx

Setting up a company today,a 1 million baht co, must show the funds.That means you have to show your portion as well as you Thai share holders,hence it is a bit harder now to just walk off the street & open one.

The cost of setting up a Co, varies between 15K to 30 K depending who you use.You have to file a return every year (12k to 15 K ),end of financial year is december, as well as an activity report in june (minimal cost).

Selling it, is no problem.Fees involved are minimal, as it has to be advertised in the paper.You are basically relinquishing your directorship & getting other directors in.

This is a 2 million baht company. The friends i´ve spoken to (no experts) seem to think i should be able to get 30-50 k for it. In my case i would be happy with the 15k i would cost me to close it. Most lightly i could get my attorney to set up all the papers in a transfer situation. I just wanted some more knowledge before i involve her in the thing, since i dont fully trust their advise. At least it feels better to check it up before going there. Thakful for all inputs in this thread. I´m sure there is alot of experts here on thaivisa.

Thx

[Lite Beer]

Moved to here.

[Isee]

You have to realise that an established company has an "unknown liability" compared to a fresh company. I'm wondering how much benefit there is at the end of the day once transaction costs are compared when paying someone to check out any outstanding tax liability, compliance etc. The only real benefit I can see is for someone that would be advantaged by a 2mil company but doesn't have the capital to set up from new (and if so, I'm wondering why they would need the burden of a Co Ltd to start off with). I don't know enough about thai company rules to comment further. I would have thought getting out of the company with the incoming person paying costs would put the OP 30k baht ahead.

Bit concerned about hearing you don't trust your own lawyers advice. Have to ask then, what are you paying her for...why stay with them?

[mattias33]

You have to realise that an established company has an "unknown liability" compared to a fresh company. I'm wondering how much benefit there is at the end of the day once transaction costs are compared when paying someone to check out any outstanding tax liability, compliance etc. The only real benefit I can see is for someone that would be advantaged by a 2mil company but doesn't have the capital to set up from new (and if so, I'm wondering why they would need the burden of a Co Ltd to start off with). I don't know enough about thai company rules to comment further. I would have thought getting out of the company with the incoming person paying costs would put the OP 30k baht ahead.

Bit concerned about hearing you don't trust your own lawyers advice. Have to ask then, what are you paying her for...why stay with them?

You do have some valid points. The reason i first got this company was simply to get the visa. I was not married at the time. I assume there can maybe be a potential byer in the same situation i was? The trust bit is nothing you need to be concerned about. It is more on my behalf. Not that she ever gave me any reason not too fully trust her, but my nature is to not fully depend on other people without dubble checking. Especially here in Thailand.

I got alot of quick advise in this thread and also by pm:s. Thx for that. Keep posting advise, i´ll check in from time to time.

For instans i would also need advise on were to best put it up for sale. I suppose tesco lotus messageboard might not be the best chanel?

[Boputed]

I have a company that has not been doing anything for the last year. It is set up with the "48 % and 52% thaiowners". All properly and set to do many different things. A farang can buy it and get a workpermit and yearvisa on it (i had that myself 2 years ago). However, to close it i would have to pay 15 000 baht for a balance sheet and another 15 000 baht to some office in Surath. According to my attorney. BUT, she says "why dont you sell it?". Apperently its not so easy to open a company like this today, where a farang can get a workpermit in the company?

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

And also, if i do manage to sell it, is it easy paperworks to transfer the ownership? Are there any taxes to be paid or something like that if i sell it?

I could ask further with my attornies but i want to have other peoples oppinions also since i dont fully trust them.

Thx

Setting up a company today,a 1 million baht co, must show the funds.That means you have to show your portion as well as you Thai share holders,hence it is a bit harder now to just walk off the street & open one.

The cost of setting up a Co, varies between 15K to 30 K depending who you use.You have to file a return every year (12k to 15 K ),end of financial year is december, as well as an activity report in june (minimal cost).

Selling it, is no problem.Fees involved are minimal, as it has to be advertised in the paper.You are basically relinquishing your directorship & getting other directors in.

Matthias, only because this is you I will tell you Roo's advice on the cost for places like forum's sponsor and local firms run by Thais is probably correct, the rest is just inaccurate, like with the info from said earlier sources. Sorry Roo to contradict you but you know or were told very poor information. Be careful Matthias.

[12DrinkMore]

Here's my bit

I would never recommend buying an existing company just for the work permit because YOU NEVER KNOW at the time of purchase if the director has just signed some huge contract in the name of the company. I suppose you can try some form of due dilligence on it, but there is never a guarantee that you won't get a nasty letter through the post in a week or two... by which time the seller has disappeared out of the country.

And in the current economic climate, there will be a lot of these companies going for sale.........

Edited February 25, 2009 by 12DrinkMore

[jayjayjayjay]

I have a company that has not been doing anything for the last year. It is set up with the "48 % and 52% thaiowners". All properly and set to do many different things. A farang can buy it and get a workpermit and yearvisa on it (i had that myself 2 years ago). However, to close it i would have to pay 15 000 baht for a balance sheet and another 15 000 baht to some office in Surath. According to my attorney. BUT, she says "why dont you sell it?". Apperently its not so easy to open a company like this today, where a farang can get a workpermit in the company?

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

And also, if i do manage to sell it, is it easy paperworks to transfer the ownership? Are there any taxes to be paid or something like that if i sell it?

I could ask further with my attornies but i want to have other peoples oppinions also since i dont fully trust them.

Thx

what were/are the associated cost to get a work permit through your company. How many Thai staff had to be employed, what other things did they look at etc.

[Wekhin]

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

What is your company like?

Were the shares "really" fully paid up? If not, how has the grey area been dealing with? Are accounting books trustworthy? Is your auditor blacklisted?

Who are your Thai shareholders? Will they be available for transfer of ownership? If not, will they some day pop up and claim they never sell the shares to the buyer?

[mattias33]

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

What is your company like?

Were the shares "really" fully paid up? If not, how has the grey area been dealing with? Are accounting books trustworthy? Is your auditor blacklisted?

Who are your Thai shareholders? Will they be available for transfer of ownership? If not, will they some day pop up and claim they never sell the shares to the buyer?

The thai share holders will not be able to do anything. I got the impression they are people the lawfrms use for this and they dont know eachother or are possibly dead already?. The thing i bought was the 48 % (majorty since im the biggest shareholder).

It is at the moment accounted by a big office in samui and everything seem to be in order.

I was told when i bought it, that whatever been signed by the director in the past has nothing to do with the new owner of the company, dont know if that is the case but so i thought. At least in this case i was lucky then because the company dont have any depts/assets. Surerly there must be a way to cover that with papers, otherwise nobody could sell companies? I have also recently been told that for a foreigner to set up a limited company wich generate a wp is not so easy today, wich is why these companies can be sold?

The cost of a wp was if i remember correctly, that i needed to pay tax on 50 000 baht salery, wich came to 1500 baht/month. Somebody else might come up with updated figures because it is close to 2 years ago.

For a year visa i needed to have 4 thais in the company as employees. (my wife and her mom and dad). They didnt need a salary but i paid soc.security for them. That was 800 baht each i think? (Mom and dad paid themselves and wife i paid but they can all use it in a hospital so its not money down the drain).

But ok. Before this is getting to much personal, the info i was lookig after was more this:

1. A 2 million baht limited company, wich can generate 1 workpermit for a foreigner-Can i sell it?

2. were is the best place to try to sell it?

Thanks for the pm:s also.

[Rooo]

I have a company that has not been doing anything for the last year. It is set up with the "48 % and 52% thaiowners". All properly and set to do many different things. A farang can buy it and get a workpermit and yearvisa on it (i had that myself 2 years ago). However, to close it i would have to pay 15 000 baht for a balance sheet and another 15 000 baht to some office in Surath. According to my attorney. BUT, she says "why dont you sell it?". Apperently its not so easy to open a company like this today, where a farang can get a workpermit in the company?

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

And also, if i do manage to sell it, is it easy paperworks to transfer the ownership? Are there any taxes to be paid or something like that if i sell it?

I could ask further with my attornies but i want to have other peoples oppinions also since i dont fully trust them.

Thx

Setting up a company today,a 1 million baht co, must show the funds.That means you have to show your portion as well as you Thai share holders,hence it is a bit harder now to just walk off the street & open one.

The cost of setting up a Co, varies between 15K to 30 K depending who you use.You have to file a return every year (12k to 15 K ),end of financial year is december, as well as an activity report in june (minimal cost).

Selling it, is no problem.Fees involved are minimal, as it has to be advertised in the paper.You are basically relinquishing your directorship & getting other directors in.

Matthias, only because this is you I will tell you Roo's advice on the cost for places like forum's sponsor and local firms run by Thais is probably correct, the rest is just inaccurate, like with the info from said earlier sources. Sorry Roo to contradict you but you know or were told very poor information. Be careful Matthias.

Boputed,can you point out what wrong information I have given? I have just been through the process, fairly straight forward.

Thanks.

[Boputed]

I have a company that has not been doing anything for the last year. It is set up with the "48 % and 52% thaiowners". All properly and set to do many different things. A farang can buy it and get a workpermit and yearvisa on it (i had that myself 2 years ago). However, to close it i would have to pay 15 000 baht for a balance sheet and another 15 000 baht to some office in Surath. According to my attorney. BUT, she says "why dont you sell it?". Apperently its not so easy to open a company like this today, where a farang can get a workpermit in the company?

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

And also, if i do manage to sell it, is it easy paperworks to transfer the ownership? Are there any taxes to be paid or something like that if i sell it?

I could ask further with my attornies but i want to have other peoples oppinions also since i dont fully trust them.

Thx

Setting up a company today,a 1 million baht co, must show the funds.That means you have to show your portion as well as you Thai share holders,hence it is a bit harder now to just walk off the street & open one.

The cost of setting up a Co, varies between 15K to 30 K depending who you use.You have to file a return every year (12k to 15 K ),end of financial year is december, as well as an activity report in june (minimal cost).

Selling it, is no problem.Fees involved are minimal, as it has to be advertised in the paper.You are basically relinquishing your directorship & getting other directors in.

Matthias, only because this is you I will tell you Roo's advice on the cost for places like forum's sponsor and local firms run by Thais is probably correct, the rest is just inaccurate, like with the info from said earlier sources. Sorry Roo to contradict you but you know or were told very poor information. Be careful Matthias.

Boputed,can you point out what wrong information I have given? I have just been through the process, fairly straight forward.

Thanks.

with a local lawyer I bet?

[Kf6vci]

So someone should want to take over existing (majority?) shareholders or directors of Thai nationality?

When those get "ideas", would a buyer be in trouble?

What a terrible system! I have been looking at some Free Trade Zones in the UAE. All this nonsense with national origin seems dated and unworthy of the 21st century

[Arkady]

Some one might be interested to buy a B 2 million company without cash on the balance sheet, if they don't have the B 2 million to put into a new one of their own, and are satisfied there are no contingent liablilties or lurking tax problems. It is up to the buyers to do their own due diligence but personally I think you will have to find either some one who knows you personally and trusts you or some one totally naive. You have a personal tax liability, if you sell it at a profit i.e. more than you paid for it which should be your share of the B 2 million capital. The Revenue Dept will probably not accept the price if you sell for less than book value. Voluntarily liquidating the company, as far as I know, will involving advertising in a paper to ensure that any creditors have a chance to claim before it is closed down and the Revenue Dept may want to investigate the company for any tax liabilities. The Revenue Dept takes a long time to get around to investigating companies and it could take them two or three years to sign off on the liquidation.

[mattias33]

Some one might be interested to buy a B 2 million company without cash on the balance sheet, if they don't have the B 2 million to put into a new one of their own, and are satisfied there are no contingent liablilties or lurking tax problems. It is up to the buyers to do their own due diligence but personally I think you will have to find either some one who knows you personally and trusts you or some one totally naive. You have a personal tax liability, if you sell it at a profit i.e. more than you paid for it which should be your share of the B 2 million capital. The Revenue Dept will probably not accept the price if you sell for less than book value. Voluntarily liquidating the company, as far as I know, will involving advertising in a paper to ensure that any creditors have a chance to claim before it is closed down and the Revenue Dept may want to investigate the company for any tax liabilities. The Revenue Dept takes a long time to get around to investigating companies and it could take them two or three years to sign off on the liquidation.

So, in other words, sound quite impossible to sell a company. ?.

[wolfmanjack]

if the law firm said sell then suggest to them they find a buyer. In any case you would be money ahead giving it away if the new owner pays the transfer fees.

[Wekhin]

With more information you have given, I think you can sell it because you only sell your 48% share, not the whole company which will involve thai shareholders. But it will not be easy because buyer must be sure that it does not have any hidden liabilities. In all, this company is like a shell for someone who wants wp and long term visa. To do serious business using this company may incur shareholding risks in the future if it turns out to have handsome profits. If the law firm is trustworthy in handling the matters, then fine.

[thaibkk]

that is yet another racist reason againt farangs...

how many thai can upfront 1 or 2 million baht to start something and be forced to take 4 locals on the payroll

cannot open a simple business, cannot buy land / house, ...

one reason i keep my business offshore

in the eyes of thais : farang only have the freedom to come here max 30 days and spend as max money as possible and go back

so many expats on this forum, right ? so why you do not start a lobby group to pressure the thai government in giving us what we pay for, some right would be nice in stead of only obligations

[jayjayjayjay]

Some one might be interested to buy a B 2 million company without cash on the balance sheet, if they don't have the B 2 million to put into a new one of their own, and are satisfied there are no contingent liablilties or lurking tax problems. It is up to the buyers to do their own due diligence but personally I think you will have to find either some one who knows you personally and trusts you or some one totally naive. You have a personal tax liability, if you sell it at a profit i.e. more than you paid for it which should be your share of the B 2 million capital. The Revenue Dept will probably not accept the price if you sell for less than book value. Voluntarily liquidating the company, as far as I know, will involving advertising in a paper to ensure that any creditors have a chance to claim before it is closed down and the Revenue Dept may want to investigate the company for any tax liabilities. The Revenue Dept takes a long time to get around to investigating companies and it could take them two or three years to sign off on the liquidation.

So, in other words, sound quite impossible to sell a company. ?.

I am quite sure there is/are some foreigners that will see the benefit in buying your company. It just depends on how desperate they are to cut corners in setting up a company from new. Guys in the 40-50 age bracket have trouble with visas due to having to work under current visa regulations, so I think there is a niche market there for you.

[Naam]

Any ideas about this? Should i try to put it up for sale and how much should i ask? I mean realistic figures. How much would it cost to open a company like this today?

What is your company like?

Were the shares "really" fully paid up? If not, how has the grey area been dealing with? Are accounting books trustworthy? Is your auditor blacklisted?

Who are your Thai shareholders? Will they be available for transfer of ownership? If not, will they some day pop up and claim they never sell the shares to the buyer?

anybody who formed a company with his own money, using pro forma thai shareholders, but does not have blank signed share transfer certificates in his hands did not do his homework or was badly advised.