Is A California Wow Going Out Of Business?

[robblok]

I paid CW 9,000 baht four years ago for a lifetime membership. I use it three times a week unless I am on the road. And a bench press is a bench press no matter where it is.

Even if it goes belly up, I will certainly have gotten my money's worth.

Free weights all the way so far that is still the most efficient thing. I do miss an assisted chin up when i workout at home though

[FarangBuddha]

I paid CW 9,000 baht four years ago for a lifetime membership. I use it three times a week unless I am on the road. And a bench press is a bench press no matter where it is.

Even if it goes belly up, I will certainly have gotten my money's worth.

Like any Ponzi scheme, it's often a great deal for those who get in early...it's the mugs that buy in near the end that get screewed.

Also, don't forget, the "lifetime membership" refers to the lifetime of the business[scam] not the lifetime of the customer

[Luke06]

I joined California Wow many years ago at Siam Paragon. I went there for two years and used it regularly, the price I paid was quite cheap so I put up with the problems as the trade off. Towards the end of my time it was so busy I could not do my normal circuit and the place was going downhill.

The reason I stopped going is that I used to do about 15-25 mins on the cross trainer, one day there was only one cross trainer available so I started my normal workout. A few minutes in, the cross trainer 'slipped', it was broken and I sharply jarred my leg. I had noticed many times that the machines that were broken would take weeks to have a sign on them to warn/prevent people from using them and the maintenance seemed non-existent, there would often be broken machines in there for months on end. After that I developed a pain in my knee, which overtime got worse. Eventually I stopped going to try and rest the leg. A week later something gave in my leg and it swelled up to double its size. That was two to three years ago, they believe I ripped the cartilage under the knee and the scans showed that I had a lot of damage around the knee from a fairly violent event. I'm trying to avoid surgery but it seems unlikely - I can't do any gym work or sport involving my legs and the other leg is now badly playing up.

Moral of this story is that whilst the price I paid seemed quite cheap and I put up with the issues I could see for the good price, it was the issues I couldn't see or didn't expect that got me and just the medical bills I have paid so far are substantially more than the cost of my membership...and that's without keyhole surgery.

Edited February 26, 2011 by Luke06

[lannarebirth]

California WOW has always been run as a huckster type of operation in my opinion. PriceWaterhouseCoopers (one of world's largest accounting firms) in February of this year gave their unqualified opinion expressing doubt that California WOW can continue as a going concern. When I was in Bangkok, I always used to enjoy working out on the nice equipment at their Sukhumvit location despite their sleazy policies and loud annoying music. IMHO in the near future they are probably going to be sold to someone else or will wind up in bankruptcy.

Wow! When one huckster operation rats on another you know things are bad.

[janverbeem]

I joined California Wow many years ago at Siam Paragon. I went there for two years and used it regularly, the price I paid was quite cheap so I put up with the problems as the trade off. Towards the end of my time it was so busy I could not do my normal circuit and the place was going downhill.

The reason I stopped going is that I used to do about 15-25 mins on the cross trainer, one day there was only one cross trainer available so I started my normal workout. A few minutes in, the cross trainer 'slipped', it was broken and I sharply jarred my leg. I had noticed many times that the machines that were broken would take weeks to have a sign on them to warn/prevent people from using them and the maintenance seemed non-existent, there would often be broken machines in there for months on end. After that I developed a pain in my knee, which overtime got worse. Eventually I stopped going to try and rest the leg. A week later something gave in my leg and it swelled up to double its size. That was two to three years ago, they believe I ripped the cartilage under the knee and the scans showed that I had a lot of damage around the knee from a fairly violent event. I'm trying to avoid surgery but it seems unlikely - I can't do any gym work or sport involving my legs and the other leg is now badly playing up.

Moral of this story is that whilst the price I paid seemed quite cheap and I put up with the issues I could see for the good price, it was the issues I couldn't see or didn't expect that got me and just the medical bills I have paid so far are substantially more than the cost of my membership...and that's without keyhole surgery.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune,but I hope you are not of the believe that this couldn't have happened in a gym with a costly membership.

[robblok]

WHen i arrived here 5 years ago i set out to build my own gym room. Because i have trained for years i knew what i needed. Now i got a fully stocked gym room, ok i don't have all the fancy machines but i can do what i want.

I got one power rack with an adjustable bench. That means i can do pretty much everything safely. I got a dip / abs bench, an biceps curl bench. And one of those multi machines they sell everywhere where you can do pull downs + some leg work and triceps work ect. I also got a nice spinning bike. All in all everything i could wish for. It was an investment but it is continuing paying itself. Got myself some big mirrors too. A shitload of weight plates and so on.

I do have a membership at cali wow too but i did not go too much because its too far. I did like it that it had some extra machines but working out at home has the advantage of no waiting time + your own music.

I realize its not for everyone because you need a little bit of cash and more important a room and a place your going to be for a long time.

[doggie888888]

I joined California Wow many years ago at Siam Paragon. I went there for two years and used it regularly, the price I paid was quite cheap so I put up with the problems as the trade off. Towards the end of my time it was so busy I could not do my normal circuit and the place was going downhill.

The reason I stopped going is that I used to do about 15-25 mins on the cross trainer, one day there was only one cross trainer available so I started my normal workout. A few minutes in, the cross trainer 'slipped', it was broken and I sharply jarred my leg. I had noticed many times that the machines that were broken would take weeks to have a sign on them to warn/prevent people from using them and the maintenance seemed non-existent, there would often be broken machines in there for months on end. After that I developed a pain in my knee, which overtime got worse. Eventually I stopped going to try and rest the leg. A week later something gave in my leg and it swelled up to double its size. That was two to three years ago, they believe I ripped the cartilage under the knee and the scans showed that I had a lot of damage around the knee from a fairly violent event. I'm trying to avoid surgery but it seems unlikely - I can't do any gym work or sport involving my legs and the other leg is now badly playing up.

Moral of this story is that whilst the price I paid seemed quite cheap and I put up with the issues I could see for the good price, it was the issues I couldn't see or didn't expect that got me and just the medical bills I have paid so far are substantially more than the cost of my membership...and that's without keyhole surgery.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune,but I hope you are not of the believe that this couldn't have happened in a gym with a costly membership.

Of course it may happen aywhere. I think the point is: if a gym properly and regularly checks/maintains it equipment and operates in a legal environment where there are consequences for failing in their duty of care, then the risk of injury caused by equipment malfunction is minimised (such risk can never be eliminated). But membership may not be cheap anymore!

[robblok]

Of course it may happen aywhere. I think the point is: if a gym properly and regularly checks/maintains it equipment and operates in a legal environment where there are consequences for failing in their duty of care, then the risk of injury caused by equipment malfunction is minimised (such risk can never be eliminated). But membership may not be cheap anymore!

I love Thailand.. but what you are describing is not something that will happen in Thailand a lot. THey cut corners here a lot and have "mai pen rai attitude"

[ricklev]

The staff seems to be poorly trained about safety. I don't think its about money, but a lack of interest by management, due, as written above to a tort system that doesn't function well as a deterent.

I almost fell off a stairmaster at Ekamai when the chain slipped on one of the steps. The kid at the dest directly next to the stairmaster said it had been slipping all day, but it wasn't his job to put an out of order sign on the machine. Maybe he was badly trained or maybe it was personal lazyness. I had to strongly inisist it be done immediatly.

Their policy of storing broken equipment in the hall next to the fire exit also led me to believe they did not have an effective safety officer, although they have recently cleared the fire exits.

Still, cheap with good equipment makes me hope they stay around.....

[bonobo]

I paid CW 9,000 baht four years ago for a lifetime membership. I use it three times a week unless I am on the road. And a bench press is a bench press no matter where it is.

Even if it goes belly up, I will certainly have gotten my money's worth.

Like any Ponzi scheme, it's often a great deal for those who get in early...it's the mugs that buy in near the end that get screewed.

Also, don't forget, the "lifetime membership" refers to the lifetime of the business[scam] not the lifetime of the customer

I don't really expect it to be for my lifetime. But as I wrote, I paid 9,000 baht four years ago. I my business partner bought each of his family members lifetime memberships about two years ago. I don't know it they have relaly used it that much, but my partner and I sure have. And as I am not being "paid" by new incomimg membership fees, it is hardly a ponzi scheme.

And as I mostly do free weights, it is hard to have poor maintenance on them

[Ritti]

Well if you read the into theie shares they are dropping and have been supported/bought by Major I think.

Rumour is they will have to close a coupe of branches and become more overcrowded in the ones they leave open.

I hope they close Silom

[bonobo]

I don't know how all the branches are doing, but on both Thursday and today (Sunday), there were lots of people signing up for various memberships at the Pin Klao branch.

[Soboringtochooseaname]

No more lifetime membership at CaWow ? So it means that all the stupids who started to pay monthly few years ago because they were thinking that California fitness would close are still stupid ?

:-)

[bkkjames]

No more lifetime membership at CaWow ? So it means that all the stupids who started to pay monthly few years ago because they were thinking that California fitness would close are still stupid ?

:-)

yes, but just a little.

[robblok]

No more lifetime membership at CaWow ? So it means that all the stupids who started to pay monthly few years ago because they were thinking that California fitness would close are still stupid ?

:-)

yes, but just a little.

Do you go to cali wow.. I thought you hated any form of exercise. (thank god that i got the mood back for training took me long enough and gained 5kg )

[hhgz]

Two years ago, the prediction was that CA WOW would be going under...and it's still operating.

[Gaccha]

Two years ago, the prediction was that CA WOW would be going under...and it's still operating.

In post #114 I said it was bleeding to death. It is. I could not, nor could anyone here predict the amount of capital that would be pumped into it by outsiders to keep it going. The jouissance that you are taking from the failure of the predictions is absurd and premature.

The CalWow carthorse is in so much trouble that it I feel a delicious exuberance in starting my analysis. But let us begin at the problem.

It is bleeding to death...

Market Capital:

Revenue:

Return on Equity:

It is being propped up my massive blood transfusions of cash and a large share issuance:

The Company has as required written to the Thai Stock Exchange and states:

"the Company has multiple material uncertainties relating to the going concern matters may have severely impacted to the Company’s financial position, results of operations and cash flows"

And on the 24th Feb. CalWow Chief Operating Officer wrote:

"Besides, the Company is on the process of negotiation with the loan banks to reschedule the debt and/or find new source of funds to repay debts to such banks. These situations; however, indicate

the existence of multiple material uncertainties which may cast significant doubt on the

Company’s ability to continue as a going concern and as a result, the Company may be

unable to realise its assets and discharge its liabilities in the normal course of business."

The Thai Stock Exhange on the 24th Feb announced it was considering delisting the company.

This company is dying. Consider yourself warned. I expect it to be closed within 3 months.

[janverbeem]

Two years ago, the prediction was that CA WOW would be going under...and it's still operating.

In post #114 I said it was bleeding to death. It is. I could not, nor could anyone here predict the amount of capital that would be pumped into it by outsiders to keep it going. The jouissance that you are taking from the failure of the predictions is absurd and premature.

The CalWow carthorse is in so much trouble that it I feel a delicious exuberance in starting my analysis. But let us begin at the problem.

It is bleeding to death...

Market Capital:

Revenue:

Return on Equity:

It is being propped up my massive blood transfusions of cash and a large share issuance:

The Company has as required written to the Thai Stock Exchange and states:

"the Company has multiple material uncertainties relating to the going concern matters may have severely impacted to the Company's financial position, results of operations and cash flows"

And on the 24th Feb. CalWow Chief Operating Officer wrote:

"Besides, the Company is on the process of negotiation with the loan banks to reschedule the debt and/or find new source of funds to repay debts to such banks. These situations; however, indicate

the existence of multiple material uncertainties which may cast significant doubt on the

Company's ability to continue as a going concern and as a result, the Company may be

unable to realise its assets and discharge its liabilities in the normal course of business."

The Thai Stock Exhange on the 24th Feb announced it was considering delisting the company.

This company is dying. Consider yourself warned. I expect it to be closed within 3 months.

Cawow is in majority owned by Major en Mcdonalds Thailand.Because it gets delisted from the stock exchange doesn't mean that it will close down.Because it makes a loss for the public share holders doesn't mean it really makes a loss.

[Gaccha]

Can you read? The company is stating that it is trying to find new ways to get financing but is having very real difficulty. There are no more handouts from Major and co. The game is over. It's over. Over. They're gone.

[robblok]

It seems that many people want them to go. Maybe to get right after the fact because they did not buy a life time before and lost out on it. When its gone they can always pat themselves on the chest and say I was right. Wrong about when but right that it would happen.

For me i hope they wont go because its a nice gym for its price. I workout alone at home in my own gym but am a lifetime member and do occasionally go there to workout with friends. I got my money worth of it a long time ago.

[clausewitz]

Cawow is in majority owned by Major en Mcdonalds Thailand.Because it gets delisted from the stock exchange doesn't mean that it will close down.Because it makes a loss for the public share holders doesn't mean it really makes a loss.

Actually the largest shareholder is its canadian founder ,with about 38% of shares, the Major group owns 24% (and must be rueing the day they were suckered into buying those).

It was a ponzi scheme , but I weighed this up when I bough into it at a cheap rate in 2007- one of the lucky ones ...

Hope they can keep going for a few more months as I still use it occasionally.

[bonobo]

The worst thing about Cali are most of the members. Very few have any sense of gym etiquette. Today, for example, I was waiting for a bench, and one guy saw me, but just sat on the bench for about 10 minutes talking on his cell. After he hung up, he sat there for another minute before getting up and walking off to a machine.

This is one example, but poor gym etiquette abounds there.

[Gaccha]

The worst thing about Cali are most of the members. Very few have any sense of gym etiquette. Today, for example, I was waiting for a bench, and one guy saw me, but just sat on the bench for about 10 minutes talking on his cell. After he hung up, he sat there for another minute before getting up and walking off to a machine.

This is one example, but poor gym etiquette abounds there.

I thought that was a thailand thing. Can others describe their experiences at other gyms. I concur with Colonel Bonobo that CalWow members have very poor gym etiquette.

[ricklev]

Once a Cal Wow member sits down at a machine it's going to be 10 minutes before anyone else can use the machine. If you ask to work in, no matter how long they have been sitting there playing on their cell phone and/or picking their nose, they will say that they have one more set to do and then start lifting. Actually they are nice people who haven't been taught to behave they way I want them to behave.....

[robblok]

The worst thing about Cali are most of the members. Very few have any sense of gym etiquette. Today, for example, I was waiting for a bench, and one guy saw me, but just sat on the bench for about 10 minutes talking on his cell. After he hung up, he sat there for another minute before getting up and walking off to a machine.

This is one example, but poor gym etiquette abounds there.

That is why i love working out at home. Though i miss the assisted chin machine. Too bad i dont have room for one of those in my gym room or else I would have bought one.

The times i was at cali wow were pretty ok, I just try to be flexible then.

[bonobo]

The worst thing about Cali are most of the members. Very few have any sense of gym etiquette. Today, for example, I was waiting for a bench, and one guy saw me, but just sat on the bench for about 10 minutes talking on his cell. After he hung up, he sat there for another minute before getting up and walking off to a machine.

This is one example, but poor gym etiquette abounds there.

I thought that was a thailand thing. Can others describe their experiences at other gyms. I concur with Colonel Bonobo that CalWow members have very poor gym etiquette.

Actually, like Gaccha, I would be interested in hearing if this is the same at other gyms in Thailand, or is this more of a CaliWow thing as they seem to target people who may not really be too much into exercise. The only other gym I have been to in Thailand, other than a few hotel gyms, is the one at JUSMAG, and that people there are almost exclusively American. I have been to both a military-owned gym as well as two commercial gyms in the Philippines, and the people there have what I would consider a normal gym etiquette.

So is this a Thai thing or just a result of to whom CaliWow sells most of its memberships?

[CanInBKK]

Two years ago, the prediction was that CA WOW would be going under...and it's still operating.

In post #114 I said it was bleeding to death. It is. I could not, nor could anyone here predict the amount of capital that would be pumped into it by outsiders to keep it going. The jouissance that you are taking from the failure of the predictions is absurd and premature.

The CalWow carthorse is in so much trouble that it I feel a delicious exuberance in starting my analysis. But let us begin at the problem.

It is bleeding to death...

Market Capital:

Revenue:

Return on Equity:

It is being propped up my massive blood transfusions of cash and a large share issuance:

The Company has as required written to the Thai Stock Exchange and states:

"the Company has multiple material uncertainties relating to the going concern matters may have severely impacted to the Company's financial position, results of operations and cash flows"

And on the 24th Feb. CalWow Chief Operating Officer wrote:

"Besides, the Company is on the process of negotiation with the loan banks to reschedule the debt and/or find new source of funds to repay debts to such banks. These situations; however, indicate

the existence of multiple material uncertainties which may cast significant doubt on the

Company's ability to continue as a going concern and as a result, the Company may be

unable to realise its assets and discharge its liabilities in the normal course of business."

The Thai Stock Exhange on the 24th Feb announced it was considering delisting the company.

This company is dying. Consider yourself warned. I expect it to be closed within 3 months.

Cawow is in majority owned by Major en Mcdonalds Thailand.Because it gets delisted from the stock exchange doesn't mean that it will close down.Because it makes a loss for the public share holders doesn't mean it really makes a loss.

Can you please explain how that works? If the company can't make enough to pay interest and defaults on its loans, the lenders can force CaWow to sell its assets to cover the loans. As the equity holders are subordinate to leinholders they would get nothing (the liabilities are obviously more than the assets).

So tell me, how is it that they would still be "making money"? BTW delisting doesn't help as the company still remains a PCL until it can reduce its number of shareholders.

[robblok]

Cawow is in majority owned by Major en Mcdonalds Thailand.Because it gets delisted from the stock exchange doesn't mean that it will close down.Because it makes a loss for the public share holders doesn't mean it really makes a loss.

Can you please explain how that works? If the company can't make enough to pay interest and defaults on its loans, the lenders can force CaWow to sell its assets to cover the loans. As the equity holders are subordinate to leinholders they would get nothing (the liabilities are obviously more than the assets).

So tell me, how is it that they would still be "making money"? BTW delisting doesn't help as the company still remains a PCL until it can reduce its number of shareholders.

Hypothetically speaking it could be that they are paying a lot for the space the rent from mayor. Because Major is a major shareholder it could have forced this upon Cali wow. Then it could be that if the rent was at a lower normal price profit could be made.

This is all hypothetically because i don't know the real figures. Also sometimes companies dont want the other companies they have shares from to go bust because then they have to take that loss. They don't as long as the company is still afloat. (im not saying its good practice but it happens)

[bonobo]

Earlier, I made a post about gym etiquette at CaliWow, and I wrote about Thais. Well, fair is fair, so here's this one:

I was at the Asoke branch yesterday. A foreigner was lifting there. He had on a black bandanna, black shirt, extremely tight black leotards (don't know what else you would call them) and black storm-trooper looking workout shoes. He looked like a Marylin Manson reject. He would do one set on a piece of equipment, then rush to the huge mirror, pull up his shirt, and pose in front of it, checking to see if that set made him more cut, I suppose. And in doing so, he blocked the way making people detour around him. Then it was back to another set and another rush to the mirror.

It wasn't a huge breach or etiquette, true, more weird, I guess. But it does show that it is not only some Thais whose manner in the gym is not quite what you would expect.

[robblok]

Earlier, I made a post about gym etiquette at CaliWow, and I wrote about Thais. Well, fair is fair, so here's this one:

I was at the Asoke branch yesterday. A foreigner was lifting there. He had on a black bandanna, black shirt, extremely tight black leotards (don't know what else you would call them) and black storm-trooper looking workout shoes. He looked like a Marylin Manson reject. He would do one set on a piece of equipment, then rush to the huge mirror, pull up his shirt, and pose in front of it, checking to see if that set made him more cut, I suppose. And in doing so, he blocked the way making people detour around him. Then it was back to another set and another rush to the mirror.

It wasn't a huge breach or etiquette, true, more weird, I guess. But it does show that it is not only some Thais whose manner in the gym is not quite what you would expect.

There are advantages to working out at home nobody will block my mirrors or disturb me. Unless my dogs decide to fight for dominance in my gym room. I went to nana today to get some stuff to get more cut. Been on diet for a while combined with more cardio but it just did not work. So i got some supplements I hope they will work combined with my training.