Dust Problems Surge In North

[realthaideal]

OrryRama - just check the CM most polluted city in the north thread n you'll find it. Lots of good Priceless work n sources cited there.

And hey, magic, no Doi Suthep ! I acknowledge this. The air is sick. When I get done with a mot ride home for 15 mins there's even black crud in the corners of my watery eyes. But anecdotally to support that it's getting better, when I first experienced this time of yr here back in 2004 I was thinking how ridiculous it was ppl accepted that the sun and skies turn sunset orange at 1-2pm ea day. I don't see the same thick and brown haze that I remember doing that this yr so far. By 4-5 o'clock is a different matter. But this type of anecdote falls in line with Priceless's trend line showing that overall the situation, though still bad, is improving.

[KhunDave]

hey does anyone have that link to current air pollution statistics for chiang mai? i can't find it anywhere. it gets posted now and again when this topic comes up every feb/march.

cheers.

http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Default.cfm

Updated daily late morning.

[chiang mai]

It might be helpful if someone could put the levels of airborne pollution in CM into perspective by comparing current levels to elsewhere in say Europe, UK or the US? The reason for this request is because many people, if not most, think of CM as being that delightful place in the mountains that has lots of trees and farming communities and the association here is of course with fresh clean air. And let's be clear, I am not trying to bash CM or its air quality, I'm simply trying to achieve a fair representation and portrayal of its air quality in a context that people can fully understand and relate to.

[scotbeve]

Beautiful day in Chiang Mai

Doesn't look like it from here .... Clear pic is 11/11/2008 and "foggy" pic is 18/02/2009. Worse today....

[ollylama]

holy <deleted>! lampang is almost at 300.

smokin!

amazingly, chiang mai is meant to be within acceptable limits today, according to local standards.

[scotbeve]

holy <deleted>! lampang is almost at 300.

smokin!

amazingly, chiang mai is meant to be within acceptable limits today, according to local standards.

Yeah, but who is defining "acceptable"? All I know is, is that we're wearing masks, using our stand-alone air filters for the rooms we occupy, and reporting any / all fires ANYWHERE. People are getting sick - FULL STOP!

[WaiWai]

Just for those who may be interested (not with the intention of changing the focus of the thread), here's an excerpt from an article from Reuters about some effects of the bushfires in Victoria, Australia:

(He) says the current fires have already burned hundreds of thousands of hectares in areas with total carbon content of 200 tonnes per hectare or more.

Australia, though, is not the only concern. Annual fires in Indonesia also release vast amounts of CO2.

Huge fires in 1997 released up to 6 billion tonnes of CO2, covering South East Asia in thick haze and causing a spike in global levels of the gas.

Research on the forest and peat fires by a team of international scientists found the blazes released the equivalent of up to 40 per cent of global annual emissions from burning fossil fuels.

Professor Adams says the research is a wake-up call.

"When you see the steep-increases [of CO2] that they observed, we have to sit up and take notice that fires are a major problem," he said.

He says in the past, native forest carbon had been in rough equilibrium over millions of years with fires, with very small accretion of carbon over very long periods of time.

"But then if you add rapid climate change and much greater fire frequency, the equilibrium carbon content of the native forests, instead of going up, is going to go down."

(abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/27/2503343.htm)

Edited February 28, 2009 by WaiWai

[Priceless]

All nice words of course and your positive spin is appreciated by local business owners, but, Chiang Mai remains the third most polluted location in Thailand.

We would like Chiang Mai to be as clean and healthy as possible, but still, "the third most polluted location in Thailand" is a lot better than the most polluted city on Earth - as a good number of posters were claiming when Priceless started his education campaign.

He always said that we do have a pollution problem here, but not nearly to the extremes that some posters were claiming.

Thanks for the accurate stats Priceless!

Despite the air here being quite grotty at the present time, Chiang Mai is of course nowhere near "the third most polluted location in Thailand". I regularly follow the PCD numbers ( http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Q...fm?task=default ) for nine locations in Thailand, and Chiang Mai is the seventh most polluted (i.e. the third least polluted) of these. The locations I follow are, with their respective average pollution levels since the beginning of 2000:

Samut Prakarn 114.7 (since 2003)

Sara Buri 100.3 (since 2003)

Din Daeng (BKK) 68.4 (NB this is a roadside location)

Chon Buri 57.3

Lampang 57.1

Phuket 49.1

Chiang Mai 46.9

Khon Kaen 36.2

Surat Thani 31.1

A bit of perspective: The Thai "limit" for air pollution (PM<10) levels is 120 µg/m3. So far this year, this has been exceeded twice in Chiang Mai and 32 times in Sara Buri

/ Priceless

[WaiWai]

we're wearing masks, using our stand-alone air filters for the rooms we occupy

Can I ask where you found the filters, scotbeve? Price? A photo, maybe?

[chiang mai]

Beautiful day in Chiang Mai

Doesn't look like it from here .... Clear pic is 11/11/2008 and "foggy" pic is 18/02/2009. Worse today....

A picture or two is worth a thousand words or so!

[ovenman]

The locations I follow are, with their respective average pollution levels since the beginning of 2000:

Samut Prakarn 114.7 (since 2003)

Sara Buri 100.3 (since 2003)

Din Daeng (BKK) 68.4 (NB this is a roadside location)

Chon Buri 57.3

Lampang 57.1

Phuket 49.1

Chiang Mai 46.9

Khon Kaen 36.2

Surat Thani 31.1

Given these numbers, the air in Phuket is on average, more polluted than Chiang Mai?? I find that a little hard to buy into...

[Priceless]

The locations I follow are, with their respective average pollution levels since the beginning of 2000:

Samut Prakarn 114.7 (since 2003)

Sara Buri 100.3 (since 2003)

Din Daeng (BKK) 68.4 (NB this is a roadside location)

Chon Buri 57.3

Lampang 57.1

Phuket 49.1

Chiang Mai 46.9

Khon Kaen 36.2

Surat Thani 31.1

Given these numbers, the air in Phuket is on average, more polluted than Chiang Mai?? I find that a little hard to buy into...

It hasn't been for the last 15 months or so, but before that it was (remember that the above are numbers for a 10-year period). The numbers for both Chiang Mai and Phuket were last year considerably better than those above:

Chiang Mai 38.3

Phuket 28.0

Phuket began a dramatic improvement in mid-2007 which is what shows up in these numbers. Let's hope that this was a trend reversal and not just a fluke.

What we tend to forget at this time every year is that Chiang Mai is usually really bad from about late February to early April every year. The rest of the year the air quality is mostly brilliant.

/ Priceless

[sorensen]

Beautiful day in Chiang Mai

Doesn't look like it from here .... Clear pic is 11/11/2008 and "foggy" pic is 18/02/2009. Worse today....

First picture looks pretty nice to me. Here is a picture from China.....

[chiang mai]

The locations I follow are, with their respective average pollution levels since the beginning of 2000:

Samut Prakarn 114.7 (since 2003)

Sara Buri 100.3 (since 2003)

Din Daeng (BKK) 68.4 (NB this is a roadside location)

Chon Buri 57.3

Lampang 57.1

Phuket 49.1

Chiang Mai 46.9

Khon Kaen 36.2

Surat Thani 31.1

Given these numbers, the air in Phuket is on average, more polluted than Chiang Mai?? I find that a little hard to buy into...

It hasn't been for the last 15 months or so, but before that it was (remember that the above are numbers for a 10-year period). The numbers for both Chiang Mai and Phuket were last year considerably better than those above:

Chiang Mai 38.3

Phuket 28.0

Phuket began a dramatic improvement in mid-2007 which is what shows up in these numbers. Let's hope that this was a trend reversal and not just a fluke.

What we tend to forget at this time every year is that Chiang Mai is usually really bad from about late February to early April every year. The rest of the year the air quality is mostly brilliant.

/ Priceless

Keep bailing and diverting Priceless, your own numbers and comments will come back to haunt you!

[scotbeve]

we're wearing masks, using our stand-alone air filters for the rooms we occupy

Can I ask where you found the filters, scotbeve? Price? A photo, maybe?

Hi,

Yes indeed...

Taking the following info directly from the product tag.

The Manufacturer: Microban

the series: Bionaire

model #: BAP650 220v 1000w (not very energy efficient I'm afraid...)

And this is kind of distressing... tried this link with no luck... http://www.microban.com/americas/

and this one as well... http://www.microban.com/americas/products/...D=1〈=en

But I did find this site but doesn't have my particular filters (mine are definitely older...) http://www.bionaireuk.co.uk/Products.aspx?cid=1&scid=6

[chiang mai]

Beautiful day in Chiang Mai

Doesn't look like it from here .... Clear pic is 11/11/2008 and "foggy" pic is 18/02/2009. Worse today....

First picture looks pretty nice to me. Here is a picture from China.....

Hmmm, Shenyang perhaps? Hong Kong suffers similar problems caused by airborne pollutants from the Pearl River Delta. HK has few direct pollution causes yet its air quality is often appalling, not worlds apart from the Chiang Mai effect!

Edited February 28, 2009 by chiang mai

[scotbeve]

Beautiful day in Chiang Mai

Doesn't look like it from here .... Clear pic is 11/11/2008 and "foggy" pic is 18/02/2009. Worse today....

First picture looks pretty nice to me. Here is a picture from China.....

Hmmm, Shenyang perhaps? Hong Kong suffers similar problems caused by airborne pollutants from the Pearl River Delta. HK has few direct pollution causes yet its air quality is often appalling, not worlds apart from the Chiang Mai effect!

Yes, yes we all agree that some cities in Thailand, in China, and other cities on this planet are much worse off than Chiang Mai. But that doesn't mean that we (all and sundry) have to sit about and debate whether it is smog or wait for an inept government to enforce laws that are already in place or be complacent to the point of not knowing that we - humans - can be so self-destructive we don't know when to say STOP!!!!

Edited February 28, 2009 by scotbeve

[chiang mai]

And just in case we have all forgotten:

http://www2.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/mon...44515_thumb.jpg

[scotbeve]

Just for those who may be interested (not with the intention of changing the focus of the thread), here's an excerpt from an article from Reuters about some effects of the bushfires in Victoria, Australia:

(He) says the current fires have already burned hundreds of thousands of hectares in areas with total carbon content of 200 tonnes per hectare or more.

Australia, though, is not the only concern. Annual fires in Indonesia also release vast amounts of CO2.

Huge fires in 1997 released up to 6 billion tonnes of CO2, covering South East Asia in thick haze and causing a spike in global levels of the gas.

Research on the forest and peat fires by a team of international scientists found the blazes released the equivalent of up to 40 per cent of global annual emissions from burning fossil fuels.

Professor Adams says the research is a wake-up call.

"When you see the steep-increases [of CO2] that they observed, we have to sit up and take notice that fires are a major problem," he said.

He says in the past, native forest carbon had been in rough equilibrium over millions of years with fires, with very small accretion of carbon over very long periods of time.

"But then if you add rapid climate change and much greater fire frequency, the equilibrium carbon content of the native forests, instead of going up, is going to go down."

(abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/27/2503343.htm)

Very scary!!! My heart goes out to those families who have lost their loved ones and lost their livelihood and homes. Massive smoke / fire plumes - I'd venture a guess - from all the gummy trees!

Edited February 28, 2009 by scotbeve

[WaiWai]

Very scary!!! My heart goes out to those families who have lost their loved ones and lost their livelihood and homes. Massive smoke / fire plumes - I'd venture a guess - from all the gummy trees!

Indeed. Imagine if fires got out out control in CM ... anyone know about the size & shape of the Fire Brigade here? Is there a Volunteer Fire Brigade (the latter much relied on in Australia)?

Thanks for the info on the air filters, scotbeve. Do you know where these can be bought in CM?

[scotbeve]

Very scary!!! My heart goes out to those families who have lost their loved ones and lost their livelihood and homes. Massive smoke / fire plumes - I'd venture a guess - from all the gummy trees!

Indeed. Imagine if fires got out out control in CM ... anyone know about the size & shape of the Fire Brigade here? Is there a Volunteer Fire Brigade (the latter much relied on in Australia)?

Thanks for the info on the air filters, scotbeve. Do you know where these can be bought in CM?

I wish there was a volunteer fire brigade / dept. but never heard of one - anyone else?

Re filters.... you'll now find charcoal activated or HEPA filters available in various large appliance shops and dept. stores in CM. Such as, Siam TV, Power Buy, Niyom Panich (adjacent to Lanna Toyota Rt. 107), and more.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The locations I follow are, with their respective average pollution levels since the beginning of 2000:

Samut Prakarn 114.7 (since 2003)

Sara Buri 100.3 (since 2003)

Din Daeng (BKK) 68.4 (NB this is a roadside location)

Chon Buri 57.3

Lampang 57.1

Phuket 49.1

Chiang Mai 46.9

Khon Kaen 36.2

Surat Thani 31.1

Given these numbers, the air in Phuket is on average, more polluted than Chiang Mai?? I find that a little hard to buy into...

Not really. Phuket sometimes gets a whiff of crap air from forest fires in Indonesia / Sumatra. This is in different months than the hot & dry season in the North Though.

As for rankings, keep in mind that it's a random sample of locations; There's 76 or so provinces so to do any sort of ranking you'd need sustained measurements for all of them. By and large though it's regional, so what you see in Chiang Mai is similar to Lamphun, Mae Hong Son, Chiang Rai, etc. Sometimes people seem to think it's 'big city pollution' but it really is not.

[chiang mai]

The locations I follow are, with their respective average pollution levels since the beginning of 2000:

Samut Prakarn 114.7 (since 2003)

Sara Buri 100.3 (since 2003)

Din Daeng (BKK) 68.4 (NB this is a roadside location)

Chon Buri 57.3

Lampang 57.1

Phuket 49.1

Chiang Mai 46.9

Khon Kaen 36.2

Surat Thani 31.1

Given these numbers, the air in Phuket is on average, more polluted than Chiang Mai?? I find that a little hard to buy into...

Not really. Phuket sometimes gets a whiff of crap air from forest fires in Indonesia / Sumatra. This is in different months than the hot & dry season in the North Though.

As for rankings, keep in mind that it's a random sample of locations; There's 76 or so provinces so to do any sort of ranking you'd need sustained measurements for all of them. By and large though it's regional, so what you see in Chiang Mai is similar to Lamphun, Mae Hong Son, Chiang Rai, etc. Sometimes people seem to think it's 'big city pollution' but it really is not.

We'll have no more sensible comments in this thread, if you don't mind. This thread is reserved solely for those people making claims that CM air is just fine and causes no health problems, you have been warned.

[brianbiegler]

Ditto that, jesus f*cking christ, the completely misguided dipsh*ts that post on this topic..."i don't notice, i don't have a clue how many people go to clinics with respiratory problems, no one has talked to ME about their burning eyes, i think my lungs are great! so therefore it must not be a problem at all" just stick your heads back in the sand where they belong.

I can assure you of the millions of researchers working in labs across the globe on specific health and environmental problems, almost none are personally effected by their chosen disease/problem they are trying to cure..i wonder how on earth they were able to discern that , let's say HIV was a problem, when they didn't actually have it?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

just stick your heads back in the sand where they belong.

That's a great way of filtering out dust particles youknow.

Great post, keep 'em coming. Very entertaining every Feb/March. And I'm already looking forward to the next great recurring topic, whether Songkran is out of control, or not.

[george]

Update:

Particles from outdoor fires pose health hazard in North

CHIANG MAI: -- The fine dust in northern provinces is eroding air quality, posing a threat to respiratory health and prompting the authorities to beef up measures to prevent forest and outdoor fires.

The Natural Resource and Environment minister is scheduled to discuss outdoor-fire prevention and air pollution with eight northern provincial governors at Chiang Mai City Hall tomorrow.

The Pollution Control Department's air-quality stations reported that dust particles of 10 microns in Chiang Mai, Lampang and other northern provinces yesterday at 9am were above 120 micrograms per square metre (mpsm) and the Air Quality Index (AQI) score was higher than the safety standard of 100.

Central Chiang Mai's air-quality station at Yupparaj School measured 10-micron dust at 149.6 mpsm and an AQI score of 113, while Lampang reported 272.5mpsm and an AQI score of 166. Chiang Rai had 181mpsm, Nan 141.3mpsm, and Phayao 145.6mpsm.

A 15-per-cent increase of respiratory patients was reported at Lampang Central Hospital in the past week, hospital director Songwuth Sabthavisin said.

Chiang Mai environment officer Phuchong Insompan said the hotline 05 340 9345 on outdoor fires had received 60 calls since January 1, with roadside forest fires the most frequently reported, especially in Mae On, Chiang Dao and Chaiprakan districts. In March fire-prevention officials will be dispatched to Hot district, where farmers are expected to burn some 10,000 rai of woodland to plant maize.

-- The Nation 2009-03-01

[scotbeve]

Thank you for the update George. In short, it's not a healthy outlook up here in CM....

[PeaceBlondie]

When I read the title of this thread, I reconsidered riding 45 km to go for a vigorous swim near the moat. But I did that yesterday, with no problem. My throaT is slightly raspy, but thank God I do not live around the Din Daneng Skytrain or in Saraburi. My Thai partner hacks all day and night, and I guess it is not TB. I feel sorry for those who are affected. But other than that, and having to wash jackets and face visors more often, we're okay.

[ovenman]

...but thank God I do not live around the Din Daneng Skytrain or in Saraburi.

Or Phuket, where it is ever-so-slightly more polluted (on average).

[chiang mai]

...but thank God I do not live around the Din Daneng Skytrain or in Saraburi.

Or Phuket, where it is ever-so-slightly more polluted (on average).

And if you believe that I have a bridge I'd like to sell to to you!

But since PM<2.5 is not measured in Thailand it seems that the whole argument is moot - it is PM<3.5 that causes the distortion of view that causes Doi Suthep to "disappear" so frequently and also contains the most harmful of pollutants. Have to say though that I've not experienced a single day in the two years I've been in Phuket where I couldn't see the horizon.