Thailand May Seek To Extradite Thaksin: Pm

[writeshack]

This entire thread is based on a ludicrous report: that Thai and 'international police' could be sent to arrest Thaksin in Hong Kong. Nonsense. They have no authority to arrest anyone in China.

[Journalist]

Hoping to get a Press Pass for this speech.

If I do get one, I'll post the key points here - don't think I can start a new topic, but i'll put it somewhere

Given my office is closer to FCC than AP, Reuters etc, Thaivisa might have itself a true wire-beating scoop ! Always nice to beat the wire services. I'll do my best.

[sriracha john]

Hoping to get a Press Pass for this speech.

If I do get one, I'll post the key points here - don't think I can start a new topic, but i'll put it somewhere

Given my office is closer to FCC than AP, Reuters etc, Thaivisa might have itself a true wire-beating scoop ! Always nice to beat the wire services. I'll do my best.

If you get in, please sign me up for Thailand Elite II. I've never been to Togo.

[JacknDanny]

Hoping to get a Press Pass for this speech.

If I do get one, I'll post the key points here - don't think I can start a new topic, but i'll put it somewhere

Given my office is closer to FCC than AP, Reuters etc, Thaivisa might have itself a true wire-beating scoop ! Always nice to beat the wire services. I'll do my best.

Good Luck to you.

Didnt realise Farmers Weekly got an allocation of press passes?

[animatic]

Hoping to get a Press Pass for this speech.

If I do get one, I'll post the key points here - don't think I can start a new topic, but i'll put it somewhere

Given my office is closer to FCC than AP, Reuters etc, Thaivisa might have itself a true wire-beating scoop ! Always nice to beat the wire services. I'll do my best.

If you get in, please sign me up for Thailand Elite II. I've never been to Togo.

Start the topic in another section and as a mod to move it here, I believe is the method du jour.

Chock dee with the press pass

and bring a camera.

[fobuff]

At least he was elected twice (or is three times) by the people (legally) and not put up by puppet Generals.

Fobuff

Stalin with 97,9% of the votes

Mugabe with more than 75% of the votes

Governments in the former Eastern Europe where allected with at least 95% of the votes

do I have to continue?

Why do you compare Thailand to a communist countries...

You should compare apples with apples.. Thailand is a democratic country (sic) or was...

In the western world, we do elect idiots, crooks, etc.... and when we are fed up with them we elect somebody else, or the same ones.. that is a DEMOCRATIC society.

If Thaskin was, is, or whatever a crook, they must a way (DEMOCRATIC) to bring him to court as PM, legally to oust him..

Not just have an little elite group form Bangkok have a coup....

Believe I am not a fan of him, but that is what DEMOCRACY is all about.

Fobuff

[animatic]

How can YOU ignore that he added Mugabe....

A putative democratic country run by aspiring pond scum.

Even as an opposition tries to gain traction.

Since you are comparing apples and oranges above.

May I also remind you that Nixon resigned

before being forced out by impeachment and senate conviction.

The weight of the street and public opprobrium caused him to resign in advance,

and spare the country the horendousness of the full legal ten yards of <deleted>.

Samak and Somchai never had that sense of thoughtfulness and history.

Nixon won two elections and then was removed from office,

and NOT by the full working mechanism in place.

But rightly exited the stage and controls of power.

I actually respected him more in his later years for having the good taste to call it a day,

become a respected writer on international politics, and not rub salt in anyones wounds.

He disappeared for 5 years and then gradually returned as a respected elder statesman.

The actual mechanisms of removal of the democratically elected don't always

need to take their full course to make happen.

What has happened to Thaksin SINCE the coup, is enough to have ensured he

not return as PM. He got the election of his puppet PPP, he installed his choice of

government, he returned in person, PPP did it's lame best to rejigger the system

back into Thaksin's favor, and yet couldn't because of greed factions and utter incompetance,

Thaksin had full legal protections and freedom of person until he skipped out on

his responsibilities to Thailand,

He now remains, a convicted criminal on the run, with an ego grtification jones he MUST scratch.

Edited February 27, 2009 by animatic

[DP25]

The ideal situation would not be Thailand extraditing him, but for the International Criminal Court in the Hague to do so and prosecute him for the over 2000 extrajudicial murders committed. Not a chance of it happening of course, they let far bigger monsters get away.

[philipwooduk]

What I would like to know is during Taksin's working life how much total personal income has he declared and how much tax has he payed. Does this equate to the 2 Billion US$ he was supposed to be worth before he messed up his Sin Corp shares sale? Another thing is did he pay for Manchester City Football Club with Tax paid personal monies or did the money come from one of his off-shore companies somewhere. Simple questions that I have not seen asked before.

[monkfish]

In a country where a government is ousted by military coupe the can never be a democracy. END

[samgrowth]

Hoping to get a Press Pass for this speech.

If I do get one, I'll post the key points here - don't think I can start a new topic, but i'll put it somewhere

Given my office is closer to FCC than AP, Reuters etc, Thaivisa might have itself a true wire-beating scoop ! Always nice to beat the wire services. I'll do my best.

Good Luck to you.

Didnt realise Farmers Weekly got an allocation of press passes?

You can buy a press pass on the street in KaoSan Road. Also student card, teacher card, driving license, a degree, PhD, etc, all for just a few Baht.

[chlear909]

no you are not naive,sorry if you felt that,just undereducated and under traveled and over moneyed,but this is enough for me,i need to go offer flowers and unto buddha and sing the mantra and wash dishes at temple as iv been taught so i herby hand this off to ...DW were are ya,yer missn some fun,

a democracy can only exist in a transparent situation,the usa is 80% transparent so it almost does there,,thailand is 20% transparent at best ,hence a 'supported"democracy will fail and it will be taken advantage of by the most rich player,,its very common these last centurys,i opologize for any offense and herby check out,,,,till tomorrow

Above, some sentence's written in REAL ENGLISH by an EDUCATED charlatan from the PAD.

I rest my case and check out for now ......

yeah im pad but also just a howly livin in waikiki,,was stuck in thailand the last 5 years tho till i got the visa for my wife and earned my way out at 3$ an hour teachn english illegally,whats a charlatin?,sounds cool

[chlear909]

So Coalminer, you figure calling someone a "charlatan"

is not a flame against TVF rules?

char·la·tan

n. A person who makes elaborate, fraudulent,

and often voluble claims to skill or knowledge; a quack or fraud.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language

sounds the same as a 'sophist' is that correct,im into that word,thanks

[chlear909]

So Coalminer, you figure calling someone a "charlatan"

is not a flame against TVF rules?

char·la·tan

n. A person who makes elaborate, fraudulent,

and often voluble claims to skill or knowledge; a quack or fraud.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language

whoops,you did it,more fun,prk bareln ended 20 years ago,bettr get bac under yer rock,cool,now you-theyre their own wost enemy great show,it unravles fast now and we can see you for what you are,

no you are not naive,sorry if you felt that,just undereducated and under traveled and over moneyed,but this is enough for me,i need to go offer flowers and unto buddha and sing the mantra and wash dishes at temple as iv been taught so i herby hand this off to ...DW were are ya,yer missn some fun,

So 'animatic', you figure calling someone the text marked in bolt and red is not a flame against TVF rules?

But "i opologize for any offense and herby check out" as 'chlear909' said.

yeah it looks like we're all crossin the lines on this one and gettn away with it too much,weres that monitor man when ya needm,,cool red marker method

[chlear909]

At least he was elected twice (or is three times) by the people (legally) and not put up by puppet Generals.

Fobuff

Stalin with 97,9% of the votes

Mugabe with more than 75% of the votes

Governments in the former Eastern Europe where allected with at least 95% of the votes

do I have to continue?

Why do you compare Thailand to a communist countries...

You should compare apples with apples.. Thailand is a democratic country (sic) or was...

In the western world, we do elect idiots, crooks, etc.... and when we are fed up with them we elect somebody else, or the same ones.. that is a DEMOCRATIC society.

If Thaskin was, is, or whatever a crook, they must a way (DEMOCRATIC) to bring him to court as PM, legally to oust him..

Not just have an little elite group form Bangkok have a coup....

Believe I am not a fan of him, but that is what DEMOCRACY is all about.

Fobuff

dem,rep,commi,,,you can sling the evading terms all day but its about gangstas vs honest now.may as well leave the antique brainwashing stuff behind,its old already,even in the usa

[chlear909]

In a country where a government is ousted by military coupe the can never be a democracy. END

def. of democracy?never in thailand yet,barely in usa or anywhere if you really look at the facts.the military switch in thailand was loved by the people.the check points werent even manned as they were all off doing laundry and eatn lunch,,it was very mellow and nice and imediatly ended gov account ripoffs by the gov,i was right there,they loved it in the street.

[Yaaklenmai]

I think that is the worst thing they can do. Get this piece of shit back here to spend a few months in a luxury cell (ha!) and then free to stir up all kinds of shit and whining about injustice. Thailand will fall into anarchy if this scumbag ever gets near the place.

These words look like they are coming from a very disgruntled little man - think you might have been happy joining the yellow shirt mob on their path of destruction last year - you should stand up with Sonthi and scream foul - wonder why you not protest the fact that they are wanted by the law for treason, destuction of property etc, etc, etc, etc, - the reality is that Taksin had this country in better standing interntionally and a much better financial position and what it is now - and seems that the PM and his deputy cant even agree on the matter of trying to get him back here --

Maybe, I'm missing something.

Are we talking about the same guy - the one that bought votes and bribed franchisees?

A simple yes or no will place my mind at rest.

[monkfish]

In a country where a government is ousted by military coupe the can never be a democracy. END

def. of democracy?never in thailand yet,barely in usa or anywhere if you really look at the facts.the military switch in thailand was loved by the people.the check points werent even manned as they were all off doing laundry and eatn lunch,,it was very mellow and nice and imediatly ended gov account ripoffs by the gov,i was right there,they loved it in the street.

So what would you think if the same thing happened in US or UK or Europe? do you think it would be a good idea? lol

[sriracha john]

Thai consul checks Thaksin whereabouts

The Thai Consulate Office in Hong Kong is verifying the whereabouts of fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra as he is due to give a speech on Monday.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday, "If Thaksin can be located, the Foreign Affairs Ministry will coordinate with the Office of the Attorney-General to bring him back."

Abhisit said the Thai consul was closely monitoring whether Thaksin would give a speech at the Foreign Correspondents Club of Hong Kong.

He said he anticipated no legal obstacle to issuing an extradition request for Thaksin since the fugitive would be brought back to serve his two-year jail term.

He added that Hong Kong's status as China's special administrative region was not a legal hurdle for extradition.

Buranaj Samutharaks, spokesman of the ruling Democrat Party, said Pheu Thai Party MP Chalerm Yoobamrung was the person who best knew where Thaksin was. He said it was now up to Chalerm to reveal Thaksin's exact location.

Thepthai Saenpong, the prime minister's personal spokesman, added that perhaps other MPs, such as Suchart Lainam-ngern, should also be questioned. Thepthai said Suchart had admitted to having dined with Thaksin in Hong Kong.

Meanhile, Thaksin's former legal adviser, Noppadonl Pattama, questioned whether the government had any legal means to extradite Thaksin. He said he was not aware that Hong Kong has such a treaty with Thailand.

Noppadol also added that Thaksin's scheduled speech at the Hong Kong Foreign Correspondent Club wouldn't constitute a political act as Thaksin would also talk about the global economic situation and not just about Thailand.

- The Nation / 2009-02-28

[coalminer]

How can YOU ignore that he added Mugabe....

A putative democratic country run by aspiring pond scum.

Even as an opposition tries to gain traction.

What defines a leader as a "good leader of the country" or "a dictator"?

Take the example of a the country where I was born.

Spain was for many years ruled by General Franco.

Yes, he did send many intellectuals, writers and persons who opposed him into prison camps or simply executed them.

So, for others in the world he was a dictator.

But he was beloved by most citizens in Spain.

Under his regime,everybody had work and a secured income.

Everybody could go to school and get a proper education.

Everybody who left school after graduating was ensured of his job.

Drugs and drugs abuse was a hollow word.

Spain was the touristic country no. 1.

ETA terrorists were executed in front of television cameras in prime time.

All this in a few years after WW2 and when other countries were struggling to get back to normal life after the destruction of the world war.

After General Franco. King Carlos was ruling Spain and he declared Spain a "democracy".

Yes, people were free to do whatever they wanted as long as it was not breaking the law.

And even when they were breaking the law, the prisons and the Justice had so much cases to handle that it would take ages before a case would go to court.

Being free became a synonym of being in prison in your own house.

Jobs were scarce and only available for the high school graduated people or the kids from rich families.

Drugs, drug abuse and crimes (also against tourists) were a daily routine.

The gross of the Spanish citizens were not happy with their new country.

A few years ago, I was visiting my family in Spain and some said:

"Under Gen. Franco, I could leave my house open and go to the bakery for a bread. Under King Carlos I need to lock my house with 20 locks and an alarm system and still not being sure that I will find my house as I leaved it a few minutes before."

And stories like this can be heard all over the world.

In Belgium, a country where I lived for almost 45 years, the Belgian citizens are not happy with their government and their King.

Somebody who has never contributed a dime to the Belgian country and comes to Belgium declaring himslelf a "political refugee" will get a decent income, free housing, "pocket money", free health care, police protection, etc..., whereas a real Belgian citizen who has no job or who became sick or old cannot pay his food or hospital bills. I have a friend who has been working all his life as a self-employer with 14 people working for him. He retired 2 years ago and his pension was 350 Euro!!!!!! Try to live with that.

In Belgium, you "flip out" a remark on someone with a "burka" and you will spend a long term in jail after paying huge indemnisations for making "racist" remarks. But a Muslim can kill you or your family in name of the "Ji Had" and he will be free because he did for a religion.

All over the world, cases similar to these can be found.

I'm nowhere pro-Thaksin, nor am I pro-Absint.

So, is the "dictator" always black and the democracy always "white"?

But it can not be denied that a lot of citizens where happy under Thaksin and loved him.

Upcountry, where the poor rice farmers struggle to make a living, the people are complaining almost daily that Thaksin reduced strongly the "drug abuse" and under Absint drug abuse is florishing again.

Just my 2 cents in this discussion.

[hammered]

I don't suppose Abhisit really wants him back in Thailand and it would probably be very difficult to extradite him from Hong Kong. But, since Thaksin has launched a big push to topple Abhisit and a no confidence debate is coming up, it would certainly be to Abhisit's advantage to initiate some sort of extradition proceedings there that would make it unsafe for Thaksin to travel to Hong Kong any more for fear of being detained. Hong Kong is about the last place in SE Asia, apart from Cambodia, that Thaksin can use as a political base. Singapore, the Chinese mainland, the Philippines and Malaysia have all made it clear that he is not welcome to engage in politics from their countries. Of all of these Hong Kong is the most suitable for him. It is only two and a half hours flying time from Bangkok, is relatively safe and has a British legal system which prevents any arbitrary legal action against him and Thai politicians and their families love all expense paid trips there for the shopping and the Chinese food (nearly all are ethnic Chinese). Cambodia, on the other hand is unsafe without rule of law and he would be dependant on the whims of Hun Sen and his cronies whose palms would need constant greasing. Dubai no doubt welcomes him to stay there and spend money but it has a despotic political system which makes it unsafe as a political base. His cronies would also not want to spend much time visiting him there as they have no interest in Arab and Islamic culture and the flight takes six hours usually on red eye flights. Japan and the UK have already banned Thaksin outright. The EU Schengen visa countries might follow the UK's lead and ban Thaksin en bloc and the US is also not safe, despite the odd pronouncement from the US ambassador to Thailand that Thaksin's visa has not been revoked. That doesn't mean he would be permitted to enter or that, if he did, he would be safe from extradition proceedings. Without Hong Kong Thaksin will stuck in Dubai not daring to conduct open political meetings. Other than that he will be down to tin pot countries in Latin America.

Of course you are correct they have no intention to bring him back to Thailand. Its just a very clever move to prevent him to use Hong Kong as an political base.

And maybe Thaksin hopes that they arrest hem and extradite him to Thailand. Because this will give him a podium to stir up the political situation and play the victim of injustice.

I think their is a political poker game going on.

And the Chinese do not like anyone using their territory for any reason that could attract attention or create problems with their incredibly succesful diplomatic charm offensive. They would much rather Thaksin never showed up and that Thailand went quiet.

However, HK has a special status and to do anything too extreme there would also cause negative repurcussions for China. They are in a no win situation but suffice to say Thaksin will not be flavour of the month in Beijing right now.

[animatic]

Flavor of the month...

Pariah of the month maybe?

He ain't got close to enough money to interest the puyais in Bejing.

[fiddlehead]

Hoping to get a Press Pass for this speech.

I bet they don't allow you to wear any shoes in the room.

[Plus]

Amazing Coalminer's post on the previous page:

he did send many intellectuals, writers and persons who opposed him into prison camps or simply executed them

And here is the crux of the matter - in your model of society some people needed to be sacrificed for the welfare of others, and they weren't volunteers, they were assigned to be killed or imprisoned.

I understand you don't care about suffering and don't feel anything for them, but the rest of the world has evolved from that point already.

Sacrificing lives of innocent people is unacceptable anymore.

>>>

This Coalminer's post was also the best testament to fascist theme of Thaksin's rule - innocent lives needed to be sacrificed for the greater good, drug free society in this case.

[animatic]

Seems 'Defending the greater good', is too often be extended to

people who think differently too, as disruptive elements to the greater order:

At what demarcation is the line drawn?

Hello Gulag here I come for thinking outside of the proscribed box

To jump from Mugabe to a defense of the order imposed by Franco is a stretch.

I imagine the art and culture lost during Franco's reign was prodigious.

But a democracy is the rule of law, said laws as decided by the majority,

not necessarily a direct representative election of leaders ONLY.

Note the word "only" before the high horses are mounted and swords unsheathed.

But it goes drastically wrong when the MINORITY is grossly and callously manhandled

by leadership in the name of defending a grand status quo of the majority.

Just because your VOTE didn't prevail, doesn't automatically say your VOICE

must then be silenced permanently. Or you can no longer speak to win

hearts and minds for the NEXT election. This happens with entrenched

power-hungry leadership and decreasing checks and balances.

A prefect description of the Thaksin trajectory....

Order is fine as long as order doesn't arbitrarily and blindly subjugate.

When it does it's legitimacy is lost in spite of the vote count.

When mechanism are in place to remove or keep removed bad leadership,

and also inplace to alow interim election replacement if leadership it is part

and parcel of the needed checks and balances.

If a leader KNOWS he doesn't have absolute carte blanche AKA a blank check for his term,

he tends to be more circumspect with his personal aquisitiveness and

how he wields the reigns of power over others.

[coalminer]

And here is the crux of the matter - in your model of society some people needed to be sacrificed for the welfare of others, and they weren't volunteers, they were assigned to be killed or imprisoned.

CORRECTION:

It is not MY model of society but a society which I took as an example to convey what I was trying to explain.

I understand you don't care about suffering and don't feel anything for them, but the rest of the world has evolved from that point already.

CORRECTION

Where do you see the link between my post and the statement that "I don't care about suffering"?

Are you perhaps trying to "attack the poster" rather than "the post" by implying that everything said was a PERSONAL viewpoint?

Against the TV rules?

Sacrificing lives of innocent people is unacceptable anymore.

Then why does the USA is executioning people which appears later to be innocent?

Oh...........

It's OK for the USA to do this but not for other countries (famous words of Bush).

Or is the USA a fascist state?

This Coalminer's post was also the best testament to fascist theme of Thaksin's rule - innocent lives needed to be sacrificed for the greater good, drug free society in this case.

This post of "Plus" as also the best testament to a fascist theme as Absint and the PAD.

Holding a country ransom for almost a year.

Closing Government Buildings and the National Airport to held a gathering by a mob like the PAD which has never been sued for these terrorist activities.

Declaring publicly that the majority of the citizens are nothing else than a bunch of under-educated farmers and they shall not be allowed to participate in voting untill they are "educated" by this mob aka PAD.

Tumbling a democratic elected government down a few times in a row with the message that only a government choossen by a mob (PAD) would be accepted.

Bravo Plus, you showed your colors also with this post.

You condemn some people for being "anarchist" but defend the real dictators.

[jdinasia]

Coalminer --- are you really comparing extra-judicial murders to executions of convicted criminals that have exhausted the appeals process?

and coalminer --- nice work adding Abhisit's name to the PAD cause with not a single example of anything Abhisit did. (not to mention really silly arguments not based in reality at all!)

Edited February 28, 2009 by jdinasia

[coalminer]

Seems 'Defending the greater good', is too often be extended to

people who think differently too, as disruptive elements to the greater order:

At what demarcation is the line drawn?

Unfortunatly, nobody can answer this question.

What is good for 1 nation/culture/citizen/etc is not always good for another nation/culture/citizen/etc

Hello Gulag here I come for thinking outside of the proscribed box

Alas, the number of "crimes against humanity" are too many.

To jump from Mugabe to a defense of the order imposed by Franco is a stretch.

CORRECTION:

I never jumped into a defense of Gen. Franco, but merely took this country as an example to convey the meaning if my text with something that I was sure of.

Attacking a poster instead of the post is against the Thaivisa rules and shows a lack of defense from that poster..

I imagine the art and culture lost during Franco's reign was prodigious.

Yes, it was.

But a democracy is the rule of law, said laws as decided by the majority,

not necessarily a direct representative election of leaders ONLY.

Note the word "only" before the high horses are mounted and swords unsheathed.

So you are against the PAD who declared openly that: "the people in outside Bangkok (= the majority) are poor, uneducated people and should not be allowed to paricipate to vote."

Welcome to our club.

But it goes drastically wrong when the MINORITY is grossly and callously manhandled

by leadership in the name of defending a grand status quo of the majority.

Just because your VOTE didn't prevail, doesn't automatically say your VOICE

must then be silenced permanently. Or you can no longer speak to win

hearts and minds for the NEXT election. This happens with entrenched

power-hungry leadership and decreasing checks and balances.

A prefect description of the Thaksin trajectory....

So you are against all what the PAD and the PAD puppet Absint declared.

Welcome to the club.

Holding a country ransom for almost a year.

Closing Government Buildings and the National Airport to held a gathering by a mob like the PAD which has never been sued for these terrorist activities.

Declaring publicly that the majority of the citizens are nothing else than a bunch of under-educated farmers and they shall not be allowed to participate in voting untill they are "educated" by this mob aka PAD.

Tumbling a democratic elected government down a few times in a row with the message that only a government choossen by a mob (PAD) would be accepted.

Order is fine as long as order doesn't arbitrarily and blindly subjugate.

When it does it's legitimacy is lost in spite of the vote count.

When mechanism are in place to remove or keep removed bad leadership,

and also inplace to alow interim election replacement if leadership it is part

and parcel of the needed checks and balances.

If a leader KNOWS he doesn't have absolute carte blanche AKA a blank check for his term,

he tends to be more circumspect with his personal aquisitiveness and

how he wields the reigns of power over others.

So you are against everything the PAD did and want to bring them to justice NOW, STANTE PEDE for their crimes against Thailand and the Thai people.

Welcome to the club

[Arkady]

Of course you are correct they have no intention to bring him back to Thailand. Its just a very clever move to prevent him to use Hong Kong as an political base.

And maybe Thaksin hopes that they arrest him and extradite him to Thailand. Because this will give him a podium to stir up the political situation and play the victim of injustice.

I think their is a political poker game going on.

And the Chinese do not like anyone using their territory for any reason that could attract attention or create problems with their incredibly succesful diplomatic charm offensive. They would much rather Thaksin never showed up and that Thailand went quiet.

However, HK has a special status and to do anything too extreme there would also cause negative repurcussions for China. They are in a no win situation but suffice to say Thaksin will not be flavour of the month in Beijing right now.

I am sure that Thaksin doesn't want to be arrested in Hong Kong under an extradition order. I think he is absolutely sh*t scared of doing any prison time even though he could pay for luxury treatment and perhaps be out early on probation or a royal pardon. For one thing he seems paranoid about assassination and another very important point is that there are several more cases stacked up against him that require his physical presence at the opening hearing to proceed. Once in prison, if only for a few months, he could be brought in chains for these opening hearings. Then he could be denied bail as a proven flight risk and kept in jail for a few more years during the hearings. If he wanted this, he would do better to fly back voluntarily and take credit for having the balls to face the music. If he is arrested in Hong Kong, he would probably have to spend some time in prison there, while his extradition papers were processed, even if he decided not to contest it. Perhaps a chance to make some new friends and learn some gutter Cantonese that he would rather not avail himself of. As is to be expected, the Thai government officials don't appear to know exactly how to extradite him from Hong Kong. This would have been covered prior to 1997 by the Anglo-Siam Extradition Treaty of 1913 and would have been clear cut with a lot of precedents in English law. Now it must be a matter of using Hong Kong legal proceedings to enforce Thailand's extradition treaty with China. Nevertheless, I believe it should be possible to either extradite him from Hong Kong or, at least, have him banged up in prison or under house arrest there for a long time fighting extradition. I agree that China is not happy to be seen letting political dissidents and escaped convicts using their territory for political attacks on a friendly nation. However much they may like him, they cannot accept Thaksin's arguments that he is a political victim as justification without opening themselves for criticism for their attitude towards the Dalai Lama and other Chinese dissidents abroad.

I am sure that the only way Thaksin will voluntarily come back to Thailand will be, if Pheua Thai can form a government and have all the charges dropped against him in an amnesty. He cleverly managed to get the DSI case re asset concealment dropped under the Somchai government. That was the only case against him that could not be covered by an amnesty, since it was not brought by the Assets Examination Committee. But the more water passes under the bridge, and the more acceptance Abhisit gains, the less chance of an amnesty. Will banned politicians like Banharn and Newin care about an amnesty once their 5 year bans have past or are close to expiring? That explains why Thaksin is throwing a huge amount of money into an all out push to topple Abhisit now and why Abhisit is countering with a big push to make him skidaddle out of Hong Kong pronto and take away his last safe political base in the region.

[animatic]

Coalminer I didn't attack you personally,

only the concept of defending Franco vs Mugabe.

It was a stretch. If I flamed you it would be QUITE clear.

Next, maybe your intent was only to use Franco's regime as an example,

but how it ACTUALLY read to me, not seeing your apparently implied sub-text was

a defense of Franco's methods as a way to proper order vs later standards under Juan Carlos.

I have not joined your club. Not hardly.

Nor can you succeed in twisting my words to do so.

I see PAD using the Dems. as a tool and not the other way round.

While some Dems, few did go and speak to PAD gatherings publicly, that is not the same

as joining the steering committee and making decisions as to actions.

The PAD rank and file were never LESS that Thai citizens, and as such were valid

persons to hear speechs on subjects of the day.

I have never thought that 'one group' and 'another' having some similar goals

but using drastically different methods, makes them the same. Not so.

Only arriving at a end goal in parallel.

Just because two large groups have some overlapping members,

doesn't make them the same group.

Because I might benefit from the injury of another by a third party,

doesn't mean I can condone that third parties actions.

Yet I arrive at the place I arrive at none the less.

PAD went over the top in the end, but yet this country continued to function.

Only the paranoia of Somchai stopped his controling the situation.

The lil guy froze and others had to pick up the pieces.

Thaksin's control wasn't as solid nor as absolute as he imagined.

The Govt. had offices, they had communications, and they had the bully pulpit.

The government never was short of reporters to blather too, and the legislature met

for all but a few days, which were a horror for all sides.

They did not cease to govern during a full year as you allege.

No one was prevented movement to return home,

or visit most instalations except ~Gov House.

There were short term dislocations,

but at no time did the PPP governments

cease to function except from their own incompetences.

PAD is slowly moving at Thai speed towards court dates,

about the same sloth-like lethargic speed most of Thaksins dates move at.

Some form of Thai justice will be done.

"Taken Hostage" implies that people were prevented from general

freedom of movement for a year... and a ransom was demanded.

Never was the case. PAD occupied a building and a few street corners.

This doesn't defend PAD, only delineate what has been observed.

You seem to be speaking hyperbole leavened with rose colored idealism,

and this really can't be said to reflect facts on the ground. TiT

Edited February 28, 2009 by animatic