Brit Faces Two Years In Thai Jail For Being 'rude'.

[Sabum]

Simon reported that he said "don't treat me like a flucking idiot!" in response to them laughing at him when he was trying to ask questions.

What kind of idiot would he expect to be treated like using that language to an immigration officer?

He deserves everything he gets and will hopefully use his time in prison working on his manners.

Another looney toon... did you read the links? Did you read what happened leading up to him eventually FINALLY exclaiming in frustration?! After an hour of being patient and polite and friendly only to watch his flight fly off without him that was completely non refundable and he had no money? And the "officials" acting extremely unprofessional and going so far as to mock and laugh at his plight? No you probably don't have a clue. Why do people post without knowing what they are talking about? Frustrating.

[sriracha john]

Simon reported that he said "don't treat me like a flucking idiot!" in response to them laughing at him when he was trying to ask questions.

Has anyone other than Simon ever corroborate this?

Edited April 25, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Simon reported that he said "don't treat me like a flucking idiot!" in response to them laughing at him when he was trying to ask questions.

What kind of idiot would he expect to be treated like using that language to an immigration officer?

He deserves everything he gets and will hopefully use his time in prison working on his manners.

< flaming snipped >

Why do people post without knowing what they are talking about? Frustrating.

Perhaps because the links portray only one side of the story? The accused's side... of how things went down.

[Texpat]

Nope, read it all.

He reacted poorly and made a bad situation much worse. His nationality or color have no bearing.

He's a rude loudmouth. I applaud the Thai immigration officers' actions.

Perhaps he's gotten along too long thumbing his nose at any semblence of authority. Perhaps he was very comfortable visiting a country where laws often seem more like suggestions. I dunno. But he chose the wrong day and the wrong officer to get mouthy.

I've never been anything but polite with immigration officers wherever I've travelled. And I've never had any problems. Coincidence?

[Jingthing]

Wow

Is this thread still going.

I really cant be bothered to read 41 pages, so did the guy get released without charge?

He must remain in Thailand until his trial begins on April 26, and his lawyer has warned he could face a two-year jail sentence.

[sriracha john]

His trial starts on a Sunday?

Well anyway... if we concentrate...let's see if we can hit 2,000 posts by the end of it.

[Sabum]

Nope, read it all.

He reacted poorly and made a bad situation much worse. His nationality or color have no bearing.

He's a rude loudmouth. I applaud the Thai immigration officers' actions.

Perhaps he's gotten along too long thumbing his nose at any semblence of authority. Perhaps he was very comfortable visiting a country where laws often seem more like suggestions. I dunno. But he chose the wrong day and the wrong officer to get mouthy.

I've never been anything but polite with immigration officers wherever I've travelled. And I've never had any problems. Coincidence?

He was polite, for an hour, if you have never had them make you miss your flight and lose all that money (especially when you're broke) then how can you know how you would react? I would explode. Colour has no bearing in a racist society? They are racist against their own dark skinned countrymen for crying out loud let alone a suspected African whom they mostly all freely admit they hate. Ya... skin colour had nothing to do with it.... And he's a rude loudmouth for saying ONE bad thing after keeping his cool for so long? Youve got his personality all figured out eh? Thumbing his nose at authority? lol lets just say any dam_n thing we like now right?

[Electra]

they were issues when he was hoping to board his flight and on your version of events remained an issue for 3 days so the touted '5 minute chat' to establish nationality (but not identity?) is entirely relevant up to that point

Point scoring for its own sake seems to be your aim here, for what purpose one can only imagine but your obtuseness hardly does you credit.

The fundamental issue here is that a British national in possession of a perfectly valid document was incarcerated through no fault of his own. The red herring of a false passport, raised on the flimsiest of grounds, could have been dismissed more or less immediately had the consular official exercised just a smidgeon of commonsense but he did not and the situation was allowed to deteriorate accordingly.

The whole question of his nationality and identity was and is entirely spurious since there were no justifiable grounds for questioning it in the first place.

But let's pose a scenario for you, the way it went if you wish but with an outcome that should have prevailed:

Thai Immigration : Hey, we've got a passenger here with a British passport we think is forged.

British Consulate : What makes you think it is forged?

TI :He's a big black man and he doesn't seem to be wearing a shirt in the photograph. The

passport isn't machine readable, the typeface for the bio data is different and it's a bit

scruffy. Can you check the details for us, here's the number. Maybe he's a Nigerian

or something?

BC : Let me check. Um, no trace on that number. Where and when was it issued?

TI :Melbourne 2000.

BC : Ahh, in that case I can't tell from here if it was issued to that person.Our embassies

were issuing passports under a different procedure then and the details were'nt

recorded centrally on the database I have access to. Mind you, that would explain

why it isn't machine readable and the different typeface on the bio data page.

What's his accent like? Is he returning to Britain on the return portion of his ticket?

TI :Maybe better you speak to him....here he is.

BC :Hello Mr.Burrowes. They seem to think your passport is perhaps not yours.

SB :Tell me about it mate! Look, all I want to do is get home. They think it's

duff for some reason but it ain't.

BC :Why was it issued in Melbourne?

SB :I was on a judo tour in Oz and me old one got nicked out of me

bags. This lot think I had no shirt on in me photo but that's

because I was wearing me singlet. I'm a big bastard me and I think

they reckon I'm a bit rough. I'm a judo 2nd Dan etc etc.Anyway I

got me new one in Melbourne.Look I'm a Brit.Anyway you can

check me out, we got our website where I teach back home.

BC : ( Leans over to computer and googles SB ) Oh yes, I got it. You

certainly look the part. Can you pass me back to the Immigration

Officer. Hello, look I'm quite happy he is who he claims to be and that

is his passport.

TI :Well, if you're sure then we'll just let him go.

BC : Good, look any more problems don't hesitate to call. Enjoy your

day.

That is what should have happened. It didn't, the guy lost his temper and now he's facing grief. If it were me I would sue the FCO.

[Jingthing]

That was the date in the press. Remember, Thai courts don't have the openness we are used to. Delays, and reschedules are also very common. In other words, trials can drag on for years. Most defendants are "persuaded" to plead guilty but that is no guarantee of getting no punishment.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Jingthing

[sriracha john]

That was the date in the press. Remember, Thai courts don't have the openness we are used to. Delays, and reschedules are also very common. In other words, trials can drag on for years.

yep, just like Canada and Saxena's extradition trial going on for 10 years.

Hopefully Thailand won't hold on to him for that long.

Edited April 25, 2009 by sriracha john

[Matt the Cat]

Only a complete idiot would act the way he did. Can't feel sorry for him even though the sentence is rather harsh, in fact it is rather funny.

Yeah but maybe even funnier if it were YOU! ..

[TheWalkingMan]

I am still surprised at the posters who feel like the guy has not been punished enough. I don't know if it is because of upbringing or because "this is Thailand" and all transgressions need to be dealt with in the harshest manor brigade... Seriously, once people become attached to Thailand, it seems that common sense gets thrown out of the window. Some on here sound like the old cliche "kill them all and let God sort them out." Welcome to bizarro world where foreigners are willing to burn another in order to appear more Thai than Thai. Where oh where is the even hand of justice...

[Electra]

Nope, read it all.

He reacted poorly and made a bad situation much worse. His nationality or color have no bearing.

He's a rude loudmouth. I applaud the Thai immigration officers' actions.

Perhaps he's gotten along too long thumbing his nose at any semblence of authority. Perhaps he was very comfortable visiting a country where laws often seem more like suggestions. I dunno. But he chose the wrong day and the wrong officer to get mouthy.

I've never been anything but polite with immigration officers wherever I've travelled. And I've never had any problems. Coincidence?

Are you an American by any chance?

[GungaDin]

Nope, read it all.

He reacted poorly and made a bad situation much worse. His nationality or color have no bearing.

He's a rude loudmouth. I applaud the Thai immigration officers' actions.

Perhaps he's gotten along too long thumbing his nose at any semblence of authority. Perhaps he was very comfortable visiting a country where laws often seem more like suggestions. I dunno. But he chose the wrong day and the wrong officer to get mouthy.

I've never been anything but polite with immigration officers wherever I've travelled. And I've never had any problems. Coincidence?

Are you an American by any chance?

I would keep an eye on Andrew Drummond's website for any updates.

[The Snark]

I mean no offense to any, but a reality check is in order with many of these complaints.

-You have come to a foreign country. By doing so you accept whatever the officials of the country wish to subject you to.

-Immigration officials have to deal with thousands of people who act 'Thai inappropriate' every day. If they have an attitude and treat someone unfairly, well, they make the rules.

-If the visitor acts entirely jai yen, and still gets this kind of hassle, I, and many others would like to hear about it for that would be very rare.

Your anecdote.

I went through Don Muang as an obvious terrorist. I was carrying all sorts of plane hijack equipment. I was properly stopped, forced to a side room and searched. They found my 5 inch switchblade, two pairs of scissors and a small assortment of drugs. In fact, I was simply carrying my paramedic jacket which is loaded with hardware, but Thai's don't know what 'paramedic' is.

But I was jai yen yen and very cooperative. I actually appreciated them doing a thorough job. An English speaking Thai official (educated in Europe) was brought in and he explained my hardware crisis. It took him nearly 10 minutes to explain what a normal paramed carries and what their job duties were. We all had a good laugh. They apologized to me for making me miss my plane, I was escorted to a much better than the airport restaurant for lunch, and they whisked me through onto the next plane.

They can be reasonable. It is up to you and how you handle yourself.

[thaiwanderer]

The fundamental issue here is that a British national in possession of a perfectly valid document was incarcerated through no fault of his own. The red herring of a false passport, raised on the flimsiest of grounds, could have been dismissed more or less immediately had the consular official exercised just a smidgeon of commonsense but he did not and the situation was allowed to deteriorate accordingly.

The whole question of his nationality and identity was and is entirely spurious since there were no justifiable grounds for questioning it in the first place.

i picked up on the touted idea that a 5 minute chat was all that was needed to establish nationality, identity and validity of travel documents

unfortunately or otherwise i very much doubt consular officials are empowered to exercise 'common sense' in the way you suggest (or perhaps at all) and to give undertakings to immigration officials in this situation

they are perhaps at fault for the prolonged delay therefater in resolving the passport issue (running into days) but by then he had already lost his temper

as to suing the FCO - for what? - losing one's own temper?

(as to your other comments i am not in the habit of comparing keyboard size so you can stroke your own ego on that all you want)

[Tolley]

You can say what you like about the British consular official who may have been able to rescue the situation before it ended up the way it did but it is still the Thais who are being obtuse by dumping him in the slammer for three weeks and then keeping him in the country for the next few months with the threat of a two year gaol sentence hanging over him.

Yes It would seem that the British consular official should have done more but I don't know their powers or how these things are handled but what i do know is if they are anything like Australian consular officials don't expect any kind of help whatsoever.

Ultimately the Thais have completely mishandled the whole situation and as many people are aware once things spiral out of control in the land of smiles unless you have buckets of money or good connections then you leave yourself at the mercy of the so called Thai justice system.

As for those of you who applaud the sentence I can only wonder what sort of world you inhabit.

Even if this guy was rude and given that he was under remarkable pressure you can hardly blame him for getting a bit shirty the punishment is out of all proportion to the alleged crime.

[johna]

It's not just the British Consulate here in Bangkok that's grossly incompetent, the indifference and laziness shown by this consular official are standard practice.

British High Commission officials in Pakistan have been accused of a dereliction of duty by failing to investigate bogus students entering the UK with false documents by the principal of a prestigious college on Pakistan's border with Afghanistan.

His explosive allegations come amid increasing diplomatic tensions between Pakistan and Britain over who is to blame for the high numbers of Pakistani nationals entering Britain on illegally obtained visas.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world

[GungaDin]

Direct link http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/2...tudent-visas-uk

[zorro1]

Simon reported that he said "don't treat me like a flucking idiot!" in response to them laughing at him when he was trying to ask questions.

What kind of idiot would he expect to be treated like using that language to an immigration officer?

He deserves everything he gets and will hopefully use his time in prison working on his manners.

Another looney toon... did you read the links? Did you read what happened leading up to him eventually FINALLY exclaiming in frustration?! After an hour of being patient and polite and friendly only to watch his flight fly off without him that was completely non refundable and he had no money? And the "officials" acting extremely unprofessional and going so far as to mock and laugh at his plight? No you probably don't have a clue. Why do people post without knowing what they are talking about? Frustrating.

"After an hour of being patient"

Sabum where do you live? Mars? he now has 4 years to learn about patience. The west IMO could do well to follow Thai laws to a certain point. In my country giving a policeman the bird and telling him to F his grand Ma may get you a 100$ fine, its a disgrace!

[Jingthing]

As for those of you who applaud the sentence I can only wonder what sort of world you inhabit.

No wonder expats here are wary of other expats.

[GungaDin]

zorro1

he now has 4 years to learn about patience

Pardon? Did you dream that or do you have a link?

[Electra]

unfortunately or otherwise i very much doubt consular officials are empowered to exercise 'common sense' in the way you suggest (or perhaps at all) and to give undertakings to immigration officials in this situation

Your scepticism is as ill founded as your continued resistance to sweet reason. Of course they are empowered to exercise their judgement and common sense, it's their bloody job!

In the scheme of things any immigration officer would defer to the authority representing the country which issued the document. There is no " undertaking ", there is simply a reassurance that the document and the holder are as represented or they are not.

Quite simple really. The consulate here screwed up big time and have closed ranks in protecting the buffoon responsible. Any claim for damages would be founded upon loss and distress suffered as a consequence of their undoubted negligence in not providing appropriate consular assistance. An ex gratia payment in poor old Burrowes' case is quite likely if pursued competently.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Electra

[zorro1]

zorro1

he now has 4 years to learn about patience

Pardon? Did you dream that or do you have a link?

sheesh not about to go through another 100 posts but I believe that was the maximum possible term, apologies should have said a possible 4 years. anyhow we all know there will be a pardon and minimal time but hey even 4 days in a Thai cell would take 4 years off your life span

[Sabum]

I mean no offense to any, but a reality check is in order with many of these complaints.

-You have come to a foreign country. By doing so you accept whatever the officials of the country wish to subject you to.

-Immigration officials have to deal with thousands of people who act 'Thai inappropriate' every day. If they have an attitude and treat someone unfairly, well, they make the rules.

-If the visitor acts entirely jai yen, and still gets this kind of hassle, I, and many others would like to hear about it for that would be very rare.

Your anecdote.

I went through Don Muang as an obvious terrorist. I was carrying all sorts of plane hijack equipment. I was properly stopped, forced to a side room and searched. They found my 5 inch switchblade, two pairs of scissors and a small assortment of drugs. In fact, I was simply carrying my paramedic jacket which is loaded with hardware, but Thai's don't know what 'paramedic' is.

But I was jai yen yen and very cooperative. I actually appreciated them doing a thorough job. An English speaking Thai official (educated in Europe) was brought in and he explained my hardware crisis. It took him nearly 10 minutes to explain what a normal paramed carries and what their job duties were. We all had a good laugh. They apologized to me for making me miss my plane, I was escorted to a much better than the airport restaurant for lunch, and they whisked me through onto the next plane.

They can be reasonable. It is up to you and how you handle yourself.

Sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. Read the links. His flight was non refundable and they were not going to put him on another flight home PERIOD and has nothing to do with him losing his temper as they had already decided to do this to him BEFORE he lost it, up until then he was getting along with them and showing them videos of him training. You totally dont know any of the details of this case and your entire personal experience is not relevant as you were not being arrested (falsely) for having a fake passport. No amount of "handling himself" was going to keep him out of jail for the weekend, he wasn't being arrested for rudeness, that is something they threw at him once they realised their mistake for falsely imprisoning him several days later!

[Texpat]

May his shameful overreaction be a lesson to us all.

[Jingthing]

zorro1

he now has 4 years to learn about patience

Pardon? Did you dream that or do you have a link?

sheesh not about to go through another 100 posts but I believe that was the maximum possible term, apologies should have said a possible 4 years. anyhow we all know there will be a pardon and minimal time but hey even 4 days in a Thai cell would take 4 years off your life span

In what alternative universe do you inhabit where "we all know" this man will be pardoned? He has already served three weeks in the snake pit and stuck in Phuket against his will. So far the punishment is already about a million times greater than the crime. If you are talking about a royal pardon, you don't know what you are talking about. That involves a long drawn out application process and only occurs periodically, so the chances of this being meaningful to Mr. Simon are remote.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[kennkate]

So here we are 26th April I take it no court case Today

When can we expect this case to go to Court ?

Maybe the courts too busy with Red Shirts Yellow Shirts & Blue Shirts

This case could be put on the back Burner

How is Simon funding his extended stay ? British Embassy ?

[zorro1]

zorro1

he now has 4 years to learn about patience

Pardon? Did you dream that or do you have a link?

sheesh not about to go through another 100 posts but I believe that was the maximum possible term, apologies should have said a possible 4 years. anyhow we all know there will be a pardon and minimal time but hey even 4 days in a Thai cell would take 4 years off your life span

In what alternative universe do you inhabit where "we all know" this man will be pardoned? He has already served three weeks in the snake pit and stuck in Phuket against his will. So far the punishment is already about a million times greater than the crime. If you are talking about a royal pardon, you don't know what you are talking about. That involves a long drawn out application process and only occurs periodically, so the chances of this being meaningful to Mr. Simon are remote.

gee you guys are pedantic! whats the Thai word for paroled?

[Scott]

It's a very unfortunate situation. It's always best to be patient and helpful with immigration officials because they are very powerful and they can really mess up your day--just by doing their job and they mess it up even further if they put their minds to it. But that said, most of the time, if the person is found to be in possession of proper documents and no other legal encumberances, they are on their way.

I've missed a plane once because of immigration (at Heathrow). I don't know if it was them or the airlines, but the immigration officer called the gate and when I arrived, the plane was gone, but I was put on the next plane out at no extra charge. Don't know who did that or how it was done; I was just told not to worry, I would be on my way within an hour.

Immigration officers need to be trained to deal with irrate people. And someone has to take the 'high road' and it usually won't be an inconvenient, irrate, scared, tired passenger.